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single-mode fiber posted:I don't think it's that they don't realize, I think it's that they're stuck in last part of the saying, "he who rides the tiger cannot dismount." Trump, MAGA, the whole proto-fascist movement, everyone can see how much of an electoral millstone this has become for Republicans for years. It's a big pile of garbage that needs to be taken out, but it stinks so bad that no one wants to do it, and so the pile just continues to sit, increasing in stench. The party can't rid themselves of Trump while keeping the fascists (whose party-line votes they need to win general elections at this point); because he once delivered a presidential victory, he is the movement, and the movement is him. Those votes will either stay home, or they'll go out and primary existing Republicans (which, due to many gerrymandered districts, is the only way many Republicans could lose elections). In a vacuum, the textbook way to handle all this would be to accept a couple cycles of election defeats, punish any primary insurgents by starving them of funding and hanging them out to dry in the general elections, internally regroup and aim to start winning elections again in several years. The problem with that approach is, how many tens of millions of boomers are going to die in that regrouping time? Every year that passes, every month, puts more of their voter base into the dirt. yeah, very good post. they have made too many pacts with too many demons and now if they break any, they will get hurt. it doesnt help that alot of evangelicals are still more loyal to trump then the GOP. That being said, i do think a decent amount of them sorta do still believe or just as cope, think they are the secret moral majority and this time people will like them and show it. trumps casual awful bigotry is "more likable" then the weird desantis/moms for chudism/ /pol/ type social conservativism that the GOP has embrased fully. these guys are having in fighting and struggle sessions over weird social conservative poo poo when most chuds just want to be able to yell the n word or tell racist jokes. one had 'broader" appeal then the other.
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Nov 8, 2023 16:39
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Main Paineframe posted:
good point. my view is the moms for liberty poo poo worked when you could point to some sex filled teen book or trans folks in sports and poo poo because that had enough outside appeal when you muddy the waters, i could see realtives of mine buying into some of that poo poo if spun the right way, but now its just too much screaming awful poo poo because they got an inch so they cirmumnavigated the globe.
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Nov 8, 2023 16:42
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Main Paineframe posted:According to this article, the "clamor that every presidential candidate in the 2020 elections brought to the issue" was really just Williamson saying she supported reparations, Bernie saying he didn't support reparations, and a couple of the no-hopers saying they supported the idea of potentially being open to maybe being willing to sign a bill that puts together a research committee to study the issue of reparations. Not sure why you think there's anything special about the media reporting on that. You're absolutely correct that those dates match the time period that they were talking about it, because Trump was in office during this period and they actually had to make an effort to highlight the differences between them and the GOP. They knew what was at stake and had no issue bringing these ideas to the forefront of the debate. I guess time will tell whether the president or any of his subordinates or really anyone else that has a D next to their name keeps loudly pushing for DC/PR statehood, reparations, the GND, and all the other progressive things that they were openly debating when it seemed like we were about to get another 4 years of Trump. There WAS a period of time where the Dems felt comfortable highlighting the atrocities of the Trump administration while pushing for amazingly progressive ideas that unfortunately got shut out the second the Dems secured their control of the three branches of government. If you're going to claim that actually reparations were never seriously being discussed then that's a different argument entirely. Dapper_Swindler posted:good point. my view is the moms for liberty poo poo worked when you could point to some sex filled teen book Isn't this literally the exact framing those religious book burners use as an excuse to ban books? BUUNNI fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Nov 8, 2023 |
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Nov 8, 2023 16:43
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I wonder how much, if any, the constant state of “this is the most important election ever” is just training people to be better, more frequent voters. I was worried that people would eventually become fatigued by it all, but so far at least that doesn’t seem to be the case?
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Nov 8, 2023 16:49
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Yes and the original Nazi book burnings in Berlin in the 1930s involved burning a lot of sex ed books and also books about trans people
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Nov 8, 2023 16:49
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BUUNNI posted:
oh absolutly, they find the "worst ones" and etc. but the issue for them is they went way beyond it and started banning other poo poo and stuff like ruby bridges and etc. i am not defending it. i am saying what they could have wiggle room with.
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Nov 8, 2023 16:53
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I don't think "teen books" are actually filled with vivd sex descriptions is what I'm saying.
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Nov 8, 2023 16:53
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BUUNNI posted:I don't think "teen books" are actually filled with vivd sex descriptions is what I'm saying. Its a lot easier to ban books that don't exist for being absurdly distasteful and upsetting; the weirdos having to defend bans of things that voters know about is much more difficult, especially when those bans only serve to make a worse library.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:00
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BUUNNI posted:I don't think "teen books" are actually filled with vivd sex descriptions is what I'm saying. sure no poo poo. but boring moderates and non political people don't know that. its way easier to spin that kinda imaginary poo poo then "actually ruby bridges made me i mean my child who i totaly have cry, ban it".
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Nov 8, 2023 17:03
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Anno posted:I wonder how much, if any, the constant state of “this is the most important election ever” is just training people to be better, more frequent voters. I was worried that people would eventually become fatigued by it all, but so far at least that doesn’t seem to be the case? Only if by better you mean "more blindly obedient and less likely to ask for anything." That's been a pretty common drum for the past couple years now; You can't let yourself get hung up on silly unicorn wishes like healthcare because it's more important to beat Trump. You can't vote for this candidate who actually stands for what you like because it's more important to vote for the "electable" candidate we chose for you or else Trump wins. As long as it's always "the most important election ever  " then they can constantly scold you into being a good little votepig and to stop asking for your representatives to actually do anything because it's much more important to keep the bad politicians out. The can of "actually doing anything" gets kicked further down the road because every election is the most important ever and democracy is on the line and now just isn't the time. Raenir Salazar posted:So in fairness the US is three *co-equal* branches of government. If Congress absolutely wants to they have ways of forcing the issue over SCOTUS. However it basically hasn't happened in all of US history and would at a minimum require Dems having a huge gently caress off majority in Congress and presumably control of the executive branch. They can mess with Scotus's funding, expand the court, potentially remove jurisdiction, etc. They can pass a law and potentially this is unlikely to get overturned because the Conservative SCOTUS was simply reversing precedent that was based on implications of constitutional law, as bullshit as that move was its much harder for them to overturn an explicit law. But passing that law is also hard as they don't control the house currently and don't have a filibuster proof majority of the senate. Well here's my thing. Not counting the presidency, since the president only signs things into law and doesn't actually draft the legislation, how many times have the Democrats had a majority in the House and/or Senate? Not even a supermajority, just enough of a majority to even try to pass abortion rights into law? Sure, maybe they wouldn't have succeeded, but, they never even made the effort. Meanwhile, everytime Republicans had the chance, they were trying to overturn Obamacare or impeach Hillary or what-the-hell else ever. Sure, they failed repeatedly, but they still showed their base that they were fighting for what they campaigned on doing, which does eventually lead to the dog catching the car with something like getting Roe overturned, which is still going to be seen as a massive Win among their evangelical base, even if pundits and analysts say it was a monkeys paw victory. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 8, 2023 17:04
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Dapper_Swindler posted:sure no poo poo. but boring moderates and non political people don't know that. its way easier to spin that kinda imaginary poo poo then "actually ruby bridges made me i mean my child who i totaly have cry, ban it". I'm trying to follow what you're saying but I'm having a hard time parsing your writing, your post just made it seem like the "teen books" were actually filled with sex descriptions.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:06
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single-mode fiber posted:"he who rides the tiger cannot dismount." They've been riding a lot of tigers to push minoritarian policy agendas. I think this from conservative pollster and moron Sean T at RCP is quite instructive in this regard.  See, the cynical operative class thought they could just siphon off the enthusiasm of religious zealots to juice turnout, they couldn't believe that those religious zealots actually believed in the stuff they were saying  This shows just how much they don't understand their own voters. The prolifers they've been using actually believe conception begins at birth and thus no exemption or viability threshold makes sense. Unfortunately for them, this policy position is anathema to the average voter, and has turned suburban wine moms into the frothing, crawl-over-glass voters that pro-lifers used to be. I'll also say that I think that a lot of potential schisms in the GOP constituency were papered over by a broad but non-specific anti-abortion sentiment, and now that that's gone you're going to see the cracks show and expand: between operatives and true believers, between catholics and protestants, between all the people who think this threshold or that threshold is the limit beyond which this medical procedure turns into infanticide. Abortion was a millstone around the necks of Democrats for 50 years, now it's around the neck of the GOP and it isn't going away until reproductive rights are enshrined in the Constitution.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:12
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BUUNNI posted:I'm trying to follow what you're saying but I'm having a hard time parsing your writing, your post just made it seem like the "teen books" were actually filled with sex descriptions. sorry. writing from work the point was the moms for liberty got farther when they kept poo poo vague(all these unamed teen books are sexualy explict, we should look into this) or went after issues like trans folks in sports which still a squishy issue with some moderates. Instead they just went as hard right as hard as possible and hosed around and found out.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:13
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koolkal posted:https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1722105016415342702 One of the only Democrats worthy of any respect, alongside Cori Bush and Ilhan Omar.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:14
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the_steve posted:Only if by better you mean "more blindly obedient and less likely to ask for anything." I agreed with you before, but I don't think vote scolding is relevant to people who go to vote. I don't really need somebody to tell me Republicans want to limit abortion drastically; they are telling me themselves. It's up to the voter to determine if it outweighs the other policies the Democratic party supports. Am I a "votepig" for voting yesterday? Democracy wasn't on the line yesterday, abortion was. Every election is important, and every election will always be important. There's never going to be a time where people aren't telling you it's important to vote. It's up to you to decide if it's important enough to go vote.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:20
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i do think a decent amount of them sorta do still believe or just as cope, think they are the secret moral majority and this time people will like them and show it. Yeah probably, I wouldn't know what percentage it is, but it's non-negligible. It's basically one of the central conceits of the neo-Nazi movement, seen in stuff like The Turner Diaries, the idea that deep down most people agree with them, but pretend not to, out of fears of social reprisal. Obviously, violence is an end unto itself for the fascist, not only a means to an end, but one of the latter is that with widespread violence destroying the fabric of society, that social reprisal element is removed, and all these people would feel free to finally publicly embrace their inner Nazi. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Also, the fear is that *when Trump is on the ballot*, his coattails will mean absolute victory for all MAGA candidates in right areas. It's absolutely possible for the right wing to lose moderates and electoral power while also radicalizing, in fact that is how it normally works, and that means anyone who wants to keep power during the downturn needs to radicalize also. That's true, but Trump was already an on-ballot loss in 2020, and, having lost the incumbency advantage among tons of other problems, is facing a more difficult challenge in 2024. I'm just some guy on the internet, but, the way it looks to me, it's like watching some football game, the game is about half over, and while the scoreboard shows a slight lead for one team, the team with the slight lead is actually doing much better on the field. They're controlling the line of scrimmage, they're out-blocking the opponent on the perimeter, their defense has totally stopped the opponent's run and made them 1-dimensional, etc. Even though there's still a lot of time on the game clock, seeing how all these individual plays are unfolding, you know the leading team is going to end up winning the game unless something drastic happens. Maybe the leading team has a bunch of self-inflicted turnovers, or maybe some of their best players go down with injuries. So, Republicans could theoretically still pull off the win in 2024, but it looks increasingly unlikely, and every day that passes, every interim electoral defeat, every forthcoming negative court outcome for Trump and his orbit, the "envelope" of the distribution of potential outcomes is shrinking.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:28
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Anno posted:I wonder how much, if any, the constant state of “this is the most important election ever” is just training people to be better, more frequent voters. I was worried that people would eventually become fatigued by it all, but so far at least that doesn’t seem to be the case? Repeated reminders of the material results of elections have done a lot to overcome ingrained apathy for a lot of people, in the way that many young people only start to shower regularly once they realize it affects their ability to get dates.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:36
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i am a moron posted:They are really convinced they own the state at this point and can do no wrong. I’m not sure if they’re even really doing normal political calculus at this point - trying to raise the threshold for voting amendments into the constitution seems like a massive miscalculation and insisting on running on unpopular platforms seems like their own hubris. Trying to raise the threshold for voting amendments also massively pissed off some Ohio moderates who recognized that it was 100% about getting ahead of the abortion vote at the expense of their right to ever change their constitution again. It did not go over well at all with my 74-year-old dad's golfing buddies regardless of how they felt about abortion.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:38
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I dont care for occupy dems but this is pretty concise tweet showing how hard moms for liberty lost. https://twitter.com/OccupyDemocrats/status/1722272745017450598
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Nov 8, 2023 18:03
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gurragadon posted:I agreed with you before, but I don't think vote scolding is relevant to people who go to vote. I don't really need somebody to tell me Republicans want to limit abortion drastically; they are telling me themselves. It's up to the voter to determine if it outweighs the other policies the Democratic party supports. Am I a "votepig" for voting yesterday? Democracy wasn't on the line yesterday, abortion was. My point was that IMO, it's more them wanting to condition people to vote for the sake of voting, not for any actual expectation of policy, but simply to keep the other guy from winning, which isn't a great long-term strategy, especially not as material conditions continue to decline for the majority of people.
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Nov 8, 2023 18:14
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BUUNNI posted:You're absolutely correct that those dates match the time period that they were talking about it, because Trump was in office during this period and they actually had to make an effort to highlight the differences between them and the GOP. They knew what was at stake and had no issue bringing these ideas to the forefront of the debate. I guess time will tell whether the president or any of his subordinates or really anyone else that has a D next to their name keeps loudly pushing for DC/PR statehood, reparations, the GND, and all the other progressive things that they were openly debating when it seemed like we were about to get another 4 years of Trump. There WAS a period of time where the Dems felt comfortable highlighting the atrocities of the Trump administration while pushing for amazingly progressive ideas that unfortunately got shut out the second the Dems secured their control of the three branches of government. Was Trump not in office during fall 2019 or spring 2020? I'm not sure if you misinterpreted my post, but to be clear, reparations were only in the news cycle for a couple of brief periods during the 2020 primaries, and had completely dropped out of the primary field by August 2019, six months before Super Tuesday and about fifteen months before the general election. That's a far cry from your original claim that the Dems were "constantly" talking about it on the campaign trail. I've already described the actual specific legislative actions that have been taken toward DC statehood and reparations. I've also pointed out that the Green New Deal was the pet project of a single House member, to which you responded that it was also co-sponsored by a single senator. Also, none of these things really have anything to do with Trump or "the atrocities of the Trump administration", so it kind of feels like you're just lumping a bunch of largely unrelated grudges together into one big ball here. Did you want the Dems to be "loudly pushing for" these issues while in control of the presidency and Congress? I have a feeling that the answer isn't really "yes". Instead, I suspect that you wanted the Dems to actually pass legislation advancing these issues, and I kinda doubt you would have been satisfied if the Dems had simply continued to talk about issues that they weren't passing. Instead, the Dems chose to spend their majority talking about other very progressive policies and goals that they thought they could actually pass bills for with the numbers they had. the_steve posted:Only if by better you mean "more blindly obedient and less likely to ask for anything." So which is more important here? Healthcare or abortion? The last time pre-Biden that the Dems held the presidency and usable majorities in the House and Senate, they decided that it was more important to pass healthcare reforms which would have an immediate positive impact on a large number of people, rather than passing "just in case this Supreme Court ruling gets overturned someday" laws which would have had little to no immediate impact. And personally, I find it hard to say that they had the wrong priorities there. In the face of a difficult Congress that made passing anything slow going, they chose to focus on issues that were hurting people right then, rather than futureproofing against a potential future change in the composition of the Supreme Court. It's certainly true that the Obama administration was completely unprepared for the sheer unreliability of the Blue Dogs and the sheer extent of GOP obstructionism under McConnell, and ended up largely squandering a rather decent majority as a result. But even 59 senators wouldn't have been enough to codify Roe into law unless they circumvented the filibuster. And if the Dems circumvented the filibuster to codify Roe, then codifying Roe wouldn't have saved abortion, because without the filibuster, the same GOP trifecta that appointed anti-abortion Supreme Court judges would also have been able to repeal that codification of Roe. But when Roe was overturned and abortion rights were actually in danger, the Dems did hold a vote on an abortion rights bill that went well beyond just codifying Roe. Even though they knew it wouldn't pass, they dragged the bill to the floor and made everyone vote on it just to get on the record just who was for abortion rights and who was against them.
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Nov 8, 2023 18:17
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It's pretty clear that the takeaway from polls is that the only people who are dumb enough to answer unmarked phone numbers are going to have... certain ideological preferences.
Bodyholes fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Nov 8, 2023 |
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Nov 8, 2023 18:24
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the_steve posted:My point was that IMO, it's more them wanting to condition people to vote for the sake of voting, not for any actual expectation of policy, but simply to keep the other guy from winning, which isn't a great long-term strategy, especially not as material conditions continue to decline for the majority of people. While I think you can criticize the dems for their policies choices over the years, this reads more like inventing reasons to be mad about people whose job is to get votes using advertising tactics to get people to vote.
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Nov 8, 2023 18:24
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I dont care for occupy dems but this is pretty concise tweet showing how hard moms for liberty lost. I'd like to see an more granular breakdown on how many of these Nazi school board candidates got cooked since they started this CRT nonsense, I know we had a ton of them go down here in 2022.
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Nov 8, 2023 18:25
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the_steve posted:My point was that IMO, it's more them wanting to condition people to vote for the sake of voting, not for any actual expectation of policy, but simply to keep the other guy from winning, which isn't a great long-term strategy, especially not as material conditions continue to decline for the majority of people. I don't see a problem with conditioning people to vote, I believe that voting should be mandatory and efforts to increase civic participation are good. I think you are underestimating people; I've probably been "conditioned" to vote and have voted every year since 2016. I still write in "None" for the vote for sheriff, and I'm going to still cast a ballot even if it's not for Joe Biden next year. Getting people in the habit of voting is good. Don't call me a "good little votepig" for voting. And you did, even if you didn't say it directly to me.
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Nov 8, 2023 18:28
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zoux posted:I'd like to see an more granular breakdown on how many of these Nazi school board candidates got cooked since they started this CRT nonsense, I know we had a ton of them go down here in 2022. alot of loud ones in PA who have basicaly been loving their districts lost really badly. and that sounds like the case elsewhere too.
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Nov 8, 2023 18:30
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Dapper_Swindler posted:sorry. writing from work the point was the moms for liberty got farther when they kept poo poo vague(all these unamed teen books are sexualy explict, we should look into this) or went after issues like trans folks in sports which still a squishy issue with some moderates. Instead they just went as hard right as hard as possible and hosed around and found out. My favorite elections analyst, @ettingermentum wrote an extremely detailed analysis on transphobia as a campaign tool in modern American politics, and has also spoken about this in interviews. The theory he’s got is that by making the issue more and more central, they ultimately make themselves too weird for more normie voters who might have gone along with their campaigns but for being such freaks about what is a low-salience issue for most voters. It’s one thing to speak in generalities; but letting freaks like Matt Walsh or Chris Rufo into the drivers seat has made the campaigns on these issues much more alienating for voters than anybody imagined. I cannot recommend this piece enough; it’s got a ton of data and analysis from a lefty perspective, and is laden with good anecdotal perspective too. https://www.ettingermentum.news/p/the-modern-electoral-history-of-transphobia quote:
selec fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Nov 8, 2023 |
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Nov 8, 2023 18:32
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:does anyone have a bead on andy beshear and his politics? based on his constituency i'm guessing right-of-center, but still to the left of where the republicans have been running for the last decade? i've only been peripherally aware of him, but i suspect a solid reelection in a deep red state is going to put him on the map for a future run at the presidency or similar. i'm assuming that he's a bit hobbled by the difficulty building an internal party power base in such a deep red state, but no matter what he has the story. and a complete melt of a candidate and campaigner seems unlikely to be the single elected official bucking the state's strong voting preference He's generally good. He's not a firebrand progressive, but he's on the right side of things. He's also got that 'mature, levelheaded leader in a crisis' vibe; back in the early pandemic before the battle lines got drawn, everybody was praising his handling and happy we had him and not the chucklefuck who was in before. I'm not saying this to rain on parades, but I don't want people to get the wrong idea here: the Dems got rolled 60-40 in every race in Kentucky yesterday except governor. The GOP controls pretty much every other level of government. Andy Beshear is personally popular (thankfully, he seems to have tapped into that whole "i don't like democrats, but i like [X]" sentiment), but KY isn't turning blue. Abortion is still illegal and will remain so.
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Nov 8, 2023 18:36
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selec posted:My favorite elections analyst, @ettingermentum wrote an extremely detailed analysis on transphobia as a campaign tool in modern American politics, and has also spoken about this in interviews. The theory he’s got is that by making the issue more and more central, they ultimately make themselves too weird for more normie voters who might have gone along with their campaigns but for being such freaks about what is a low-salience issue for most voters. It’s one thing to speak in generalities; but letting freaks like Matt Walsh or Chris Rufo into the drivers seat has made the campaigns on these issues much more alienating for voters than anybody imagined. thanks great article. I have theory that sorta plays into this. a while ago i read a good article about problem that effects both the chuds and honestly media culture in general and its basicaly about the death of mythos. basicaly everything has to be 100% literal and has to be explained. the article uses the example of how every movie/game/etc is has some "______ explained" video and how everything in plot is taken as literal and if not it turns into cinima sins "DING" poo poo. the chuds are in the same boat because the Q types and chuds in general think all the conspiracy poo poo is real 100 as real as the sun rising and setting. it goes deeper into that. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/02/satanic-panics-and-the-death-of-mythos whats more interesting i have been reading the book that the article takes alot of points from and its genuinly phenominal. its basicaly about how the social right declared war on D&D and other games like that and how alot of the ways the chuds interacted with this stuff was almost a weird toxic paracosim of what RPG gamers do. the lense of play imploded and its all real to them. so you end up with this weird chuds basicaly playing irl dnd but they believe its real. and thats what alot of the walshs and moms for liberty folks are doing too. https://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Games-Role-Playing-Religion-Imagined/dp/0520284925
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Nov 8, 2023 18:41
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"Votescold" and "votepig" will never capture the slur-for-normal-people lightning that libertarians did with "statist."
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Nov 8, 2023 18:41
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Main Paineframe posted:Was Trump not in office during fall 2019 or spring 2020? I'm not sure if you misinterpreted my post, but to be clear, reparations were only in the news cycle for a couple of brief periods during the 2020 primaries, and had completely dropped out of the primary field by August 2019, I’m not following your math here, how can you claim that reparations was a topic that the Dems were pushing in 2020 then go on to state that they had completely dropped the subject in 2019? Can you clarify what exactly you’re arguing, other than this weird claim that the time frame doesn’t matter because Trump was in office?
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Nov 8, 2023 18:58
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BUUNNI posted:There WAS a period of time where the Dems felt comfortable highlighting the atrocities of the Trump administration while pushing for amazingly progressive ideas that unfortunately got shut out the second the Dems secured their control of the three branches of government. The Democrats did not secure control of the three branches of government.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:01
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Dapper_Swindler posted:thanks great article. I have theory that sorta plays into this. a while ago i read a good article about problem that effects both the chuds and honestly media culture in general and its basicaly about the death of mythos. basicaly everything has to be 100% literal and has to be explained. the article uses the example of how every movie/game/etc is has some "______ explained" video and how everything in plot is taken as literal and if not it turns into cinima sins "DING" poo poo. the chuds are in the same boat because the Q types and chuds in general think all the conspiracy poo poo is real 100 as real as the sun rising and setting. it goes deeper into that. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/02/satanic-panics-and-the-death-of-mythos Ordered that book to read and then pass around my DND group, it looks great. This ties in to my next curiosity, which is what youth engagement for a second Trump campaign would look like. In 2016 we were unable to escape the youthful chuddy enthusiasm of pepe memes, and much of that work got recycled into more-or-less official campaign structures, reusing content, hiring creators and memers into actual roles. What’s changed in the eight years since then? A gently caress ton. That initial generation of alt-right (almost entirely) dudes have aged into having jobs, and every other experience of early adulthood. I cannot reckon what it will look like, but I don’t anticipate the same frenzied activity that was a hallmark of his supporters in 2016. I think if Trump is the nominee (and I think he will be) it will ultimately be a much more boring campaign, with two candidates who can’t really martial meaningful innovative youthful cadres to support them. I think for different reasons for each side, but also some larger categorical similarities that you can look to—Obama in ‘12 had a very different looking campaign than in ‘08, and a significant drop off in “new Guy energy” among supporters, and I think Trump will be subject to the same effect. It’s harder to project the Skies The Limit feeling a candidate who is new, has no or limited political track record to examine, when it’s two guys who have already been president, and have disappointed in all the ways that presidents disappoint young voters.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:03
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PeterWeller posted:The Democrats did not secure control of the three branches of government. Holding dems accountable for things the Republican-appointed Supreme Court majority did and punishing them by allowing another Republican president to appoint yet more of those justices is the level of 4d chess strategy I fully expect from the "left" in America.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:08
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Bodyholes posted:Holding dems accountable for things the Republican-appointed Supreme Court majority did and punishing them by allowing another Republican president to appoint yet more of those justices is the level of 4d chess strategy I fully expect from the "left" in America. Yeah, sure would be silly if that were a thing that happened. Good thing Obama didn't roll over and let the Republicans block his supreme court nominee because the entire democratic party took it as a foregone conclusion that Hillary was going to just waltz in and get to appoint two judges on day one.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:14
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zoux posted:I'd like to see an more granular breakdown on how many of these Nazi school board candidates got cooked since they started this CRT nonsense, I know we had a ton of them go down here in 2022. They lost bigly (though no 100%) in Illinois this past spring
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Nov 8, 2023 19:16
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zoux posted:They've been riding a lot of tigers to push minoritarian policy agendas. Yeah, I think this has been an ongoing thing for a long time, well before Trump, but which started becoming much more significant around the time of Obama's first election. That, of course, drew the ire not only of explicit racists, but also those of the "I'm not racist, But," crowd, the latter of which had been significantly less radicalized up to that point. However, coincidentally at the same time, you have a couple of technological things going on as well. Facebook only started accepting accounts from the general public in 2006, so it takes a few years for the "Republican normie" cohort to adopt the technology. The iPhone comes out in 2007, again it takes a few years for enough market penetration to get in the hands of the Republican normies. So, by let's say the early 2010s, you have a bunch of people who are upset at things (Great Financial Crisis, black president, whatever), and they also have social media with a high convenience factor (don't have to go sit at the dedicated workstation to do computer things anymore), but they have no prior experience or inoculation against bad internet behavior. Nazis had an early recognition of the power of the internet for spreading their messages, and suddenly an enormous new potential audience appeared. They started hooking people on the rhetoric dope that was too extreme for radio or TV at the time, but did still keep a lot of the messaging in dog whistles. Mid 2010s, you can see this increasing rightward shift reflected in some of the people getting elected to office, but even groups like the House Freedom Caucus still don't exist until 2015. However, along comes Trump, whose media diet is well-documented at this point. He hasn't been the producer, the one trying to sit there and craft the perfect message, to slowly dial up the Nazism to make it palatable to the general public. He's a consumer of it, he eats it all it up, and in turn amplifies it out, to enhance his own standing and popularity. I think in a way he sort of hijacked that nascent Nazi movement because not only did he turn the dial up too fast, he won, which meant everyone else on the right had to shift even further to the right. But also, Trump doesn't care about the movement, he only cares about himself. He doesn't dream of a future where Nazis sweep the ballots and run rampant in the streets, unless that's the future where he gets to be The Big Man. If he's stripped of political power, imprisoned even, he doesn't care about the ramifications to the Nazi cause, he only cares about how mad he is. Anyway, back to the present, the Republicans probably thought they could ride the tiger of a feral voter base made up of theocrats, fascists and their sympathizers, etc., for a lot longer, long enough to give themselves permanent structural victory. I think Trump created too much opposition to them too fast, and he also captured too much of their base to himself, and not their cause. So now they're stuck, they can't lose such a large percentage of their voter base by saying "hey actually, all we really care about is corporate tax cuts, gently caress your stupid religion, gently caress whatever you're mad about." They also can't shift the messaging effectively on these people, because they're hooked on the fascist dope; if Fox won't deliver it, they'll go to a different TV channel. If no TV channels will deliver, they'll get it from the internet. But, letting these people stick around is also electoral poison because it's mobilizing too much opposition. And, it's probably going to continue to do so, until Trump is completely gone at least, and probably also until all the in-fighting for inheritance of his mantle dies off too. Really the politicians who view themselves as stewards of capital would be better served to align themselves with Democrats and just try to stifle progressive policies internally. 40 years ago the Republicans would've been their natural home but now they're left trying to pitch changing the tax treatment on futures contracts to people who don't care about that, and only want to know how many bombs will get dropped on Mexico.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:21
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BUUNNI posted:
How is this a ”yep” when way more ex-army officers and rangers and fighter pilots voted no to censure?
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Nov 8, 2023 19:22
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brugroffil posted:They lost bigly (though no 100%) in Illinois this past spring I think another reason they ate poo poo is because they didnt do any of the boring busy work thats involved. they just wanted to do chud version of cultural revolution and hurt LGBTQ kids and thats not popula espcially when its very very clear your not doing your basic job like making sure the schools have like janitorial staff or special ed gets funded and etc etc.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:22
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the_steve posted:Yeah, sure would be silly if that were a thing that happened. Had Obama not "rolled over"--whatever the gently caress that would've entailed--there would be a 4 seat liberal minority on the SC instead of a 3 seat liberal minority.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:23
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