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thrawn527 posted:She had training but chose to stop and not be a Jedi. Yeah I remember that from one of the billion desperation tweets to patch the ST
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Nov 8, 2023 07:06
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Lol remember the Lego Star Wars Holiday Special
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Nov 8, 2023 15:18
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Remember how it was actually good and did interesting things with the characters
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Nov 8, 2023 17:25
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Watching ANH in anticipation of this burlesque show tonight and its weird that when Luke is asking his uncle about Ben Kenobi he doesn't bring up that he saved him from a crazed woman wielding a red lightsaber just a few years earlier It feels like that memory would really stick with Luke since it happened to him at such a formulative age
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Nov 8, 2023 18:00
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Wolfsheim posted:Watching ANH in anticipation of this burlesque show tonight and its weird that when Luke is asking his uncle about Ben Kenobi he doesn't bring up that he saved him from a crazed woman wielding a red lightsaber just a few years earlier 
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Nov 8, 2023 18:21
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There is also some weirdness where Obi Wan describes quarreling with Owen about how Anakin never should have left home to become a Jedi despite Owen not even meeting Anakin until he was already a Jedi and going beast mode on the local indigenous population and then Obi Wan not even meeting Owen until years later but I guess they could have been arguing post-Clone Wars that a hypothetical slave child Anakin should have stayed or whatever but that's a weird thing for Owen to have latched onto based on meeting him once a decade later No getting around that one since it's pure Lucas lol
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Nov 8, 2023 18:26
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obi wan lying is pretty consistent I think, if it's all part of convincing Luke to join him
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Nov 8, 2023 18:28
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Obi-Wan's just so used to lying all the time that he got all confused when Dooku tried to tell him the truth.
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Nov 8, 2023 18:41
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Martman posted:obi wan lying is pretty consistent I think, if it's all part of convincing Luke to join him That does fit, though it's weird the way that Lucas unintentionally made it so that Obi Wan is less a caring mentor and more a guy who decides to turn his son's friend into a WMD to take revenge and then the EU material just leans into that Also I forgot about this chill guy from the cantina, what's his deal, why don't we ever see another hookah smoking turban lizard in the greater canon 
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Nov 8, 2023 18:50
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Dude was so chill he got kicked off his homeworld:quote:Originally from the planet Sarka, Melas was born with physical deformities, resulting in a loss of status for he and his family. Melas thus spent his youth as an outcast, though his unusual appearance was not his greatest crime in the eyes of his fellow Sarkans. feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Nov 8, 2023 |
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Nov 8, 2023 19:21
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That guy's one of the Special Edition aliens they added to replace the off-the-shelf Wolfman masks Rick Baker used in the original movie. The reason they never re-used the lizard mask anywhere else is because he's just the back of a different alien's head, with the tusks & trunk covered with a turban:
Robot Style fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Nov 8, 2023 |
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Nov 8, 2023 19:23
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Wolfsheim posted:That does fit, though it's weird the way that Lucas unintentionally made it so that Obi Wan is less a caring mentor and more a guy who decides to turn his son's friend into a WMD to take revenge and then the EU material just leans into that Who says it was unintentional?
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Nov 8, 2023 19:26
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Wolfsheim posted:That does fit, though it's weird the way that Lucas unintentionally made it so that Obi Wan is less a caring mentor and more a guy who decides to turn his son's friend into a WMD to take revenge and then the EU material just leans into that That's been the subtext since '77.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:28
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now I'm just imagining Honest Obi Wan where he's basically the "I used to be a reeeal piece of poo poo" guy from I Think You Should Leave
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Nov 8, 2023 19:29
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Martman posted:now I'm just imagining Honest Obi Wan where he's basically the "I used to be a reeeal piece of poo poo" guy from I Think You Should Leave It was the Star Wars, brother. He did what he had to do.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:30
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Robot Style posted:That guy's one of the Special Edition aliens they added to replace the off-the-shelf Wolfman masks Rick Baker used in the original movie. The reason they never re-used the lizard mask anywhere else is because he's just the back of a different alien's head, with the tusks & trunk covered with a turban: Lol this rocks, but I still like the generic wolfman more. Disney, please make a ten episode D+ series about the lizardman stealing the wolfman's life (they will reconcile their differences later after a run in with Vader on a desert planet that looks like Tatooine but isnt) Schwarzwald posted:That's been the subtext since '77. Since so little of the broader story including the central concept of Anakin as Vader is really present in ANH I don't know if that was really the intention at the time lol
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Nov 8, 2023 19:50
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Wolfsheim posted:
The revenge is against the Empire.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:59
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The various family dynamics of the trilogy were already floating around in the drafts of the movie that preceded the shooting script, though were largely left out of the finished movie. In the rough draft, protagonist Annikin Starkiller's father Kane is a Jedi who is also a cyborg - with nothing left of his body but his head and part of his arm. In the second draft, the opening sequence aboard the blockade runner ends with the capture of Luke Starkiller's sibling (in this case his brother Deak), while Leia is his cousin (the daughter of his uncle Owen). The stuff about Vader specifically being Luke's father seems to have come into being early in the development of The Empire Strikes Back - though Leigh Brackett's rough draft of the script actually has Vader and Anakin as separate people, with Anakin appearing as a ghost to knight Luke as a Jedi. Based on some other behind-the-scenes material from that time, it seems like Lucas didn't tell Brackett about Vader being Luke's father, either to reduce the potential for plot leaks or because he wasn't sure he was going to go with that idea yet. Oddly, one ESB-era idea Lucas had about how to explain Vader being Luke's father was that "Darth Vader" was some sort of evil spirit that had possessed Anakin, and that the third movie in the trilogy might feature Luke banishing the entity and freeing his dad from its control. The complete story wasn't decided until the development of Return of the Jedi, though it also had some differences from how the prequels ultimately went down. For example, Luke & Leia were originally supposed to be 6 months old when Anakin became Vader, and Anakin had already been secretly killing Jedi on Palpatine's behalf for a while before being put in the suit.
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Nov 8, 2023 20:13
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Like Vagenda says, Anakin being Vader or not is besides the point. Obiwan's a trickster and a liar, and his whole motivation in the original film is to push Luke to continue his battles.
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Nov 8, 2023 20:17
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I think charitably he wanted to push Luke to continue his battles to save the galaxy, not out of personal revenge.
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Nov 8, 2023 21:11
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Robot Style posted:That guy's one of the Special Edition aliens they added to replace the off-the-shelf Wolfman masks Rick Baker used in the original movie. The reason they never re-used the lizard mask anywhere else is because he's just the back of a different alien's head, with the tusks & trunk covered with a turban: Holy poo poo, that's amazing.
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Nov 8, 2023 21:56
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Colonel Cool posted:I think charitably he wanted to push Luke to continue his battles to save the galaxy, not out of personal revenge. From his point of view, sure. He also probably wanted to restart the warrior-monk order
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Nov 8, 2023 22:43
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Drama 102: allude to bakstory but never show it, because showing it sux
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Nov 9, 2023 00:57
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Schwarzwald posted:Like Vagenda says, Anakin being Vader or not is besides the point. Obiwan's a trickster and a liar, and his whole motivation in the original film is to push Luke to continue his battles. Ehhhh he's a trickster in the rascally way like Qui Gon, a puckish rogue type, not a con artist with a dark personal vendetta. There's nothing in the OT to indicate that killing Vader + Sheev and restoring the Jedi order is anything but a net good for the galaxy. You could argue the intent was always to show that no, the Jedi loving sucked and made everything worse and Luke is destined to gently caress it up or whatever but its really not there at all for the first 22 years of the series life lol
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Nov 9, 2023 00:58
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Wolfsheim posted:Ehhhh he's a trickster in the rascally way like Qui Gon, a puckish rogue type, not a con artist with a dark personal vendetta. There's nothing in the OT to indicate that killing Vader + Sheev and restoring the Jedi order is anything but a net good for the galaxy.
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Nov 9, 2023 01:03
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The really good thing about Auralnauts Larry is that they just completely run with Obi Wan being a complete liar and end with it him just making himself forget hes lying to *himself.* The mix of how good the editing is and how much they understand Star Wars makes them the best parody thing out there. I can definitely see actual old desert living Obi Wan misremembering his own past like that.
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Nov 9, 2023 01:17
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Wolfsheim posted:Ehhhh he's a trickster in the rascally way like Qui Gon, a puckish rogue type, not a con artist with a dark personal vendetta. There's nothing in the OT to indicate that killing Vader + Sheev and restoring the Jedi order is anything but a net good for the galaxy. I'm not arguing that he's a tortured, brooding figure or that fighting the Empire isn't a good thing to do. But, like, Obiwan very much does push his friend's son to take up the fight against his enemies. That's what happens in the movie.
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Nov 9, 2023 01:22
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Blood Boils posted:From his point of view, sure. He also probably wanted to restart the warrior-monk order The fact that Yoda and Obi-Wan approve of Luke rejecting their orders at the end of RotJ at the Ewok party doesn’t jive with them being malicious actors. Wrong sure, but not actively trying to turn Luke into some sociopathic robot for their personal revenge. To a degree they were even right. When Luke learns Vader is his father “before he was ready” it drives him to attempt suicide. My feeling is that Yoda and Ben had a general idea that they would complete Luke’s training, then tell him the truth before he went off to face Vader, under the impression that by that point they’d have trained him well enough to be able to handle it.
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Nov 9, 2023 01:28
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galagazombie posted:The fact that Yoda and Obi-Wan approve of Luke rejecting their orders at the end of RotJ at the Ewok party doesn’t jive with them being malicious actors. Wrong sure, but not actively trying to turn Luke into some sociopathic robot for their personal revenge. To a degree they were even right. When Luke learns Vader is his father “before he was ready” it drives him to attempt suicide. My feeling is that Yoda and Ben had a general idea that they would complete Luke’s training, then tell him the truth before he went off to face Vader, under the impression that by that point they’d have trained him well enough to be able to handle it. They could also just be smug & reactionary assholes.
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Nov 9, 2023 01:29
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In the post prequels context it's almost impossible to imagine yoda sincerely believing luke had any chance against the emperor particularly, considering how that went for yoda when he tried it. Luke was just sort of a pawn being used to maybe take out vader and mess up sheev's pots and pans. Presumably the real play in that event was going to be grooming leia. I hate these old men
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Nov 9, 2023 01:33
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In the context of ANH its portrayed less as a revenge mission and more 'Obi Wan is aware now that the empire is on Tatooine that Luke is going to be hunted down and executed no matter what happens so he might as well become a warrior monk to protect himself' In the context of the entire OT they definitely imply Yoda and him had a general plan but its ambiguous at best, like you could even charitably say 'oh now that Luke is a Jedi they won't be able to dissuade him from confronting Vader so they are preparing him and hoping for the best' In the context of the prequels, Clone Wars, Rebels and SW as a whole they were breeding the ultimate suicide bomber to enact vengeance on the two guys they regret not killing 20 years earlier and also they just can't be bothered to reach out to Ahsoka or the other hundred living Jedi still kicking around
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Nov 9, 2023 01:45
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YaketySass posted:Obi-Wan's just so used to lying all the time that he got all confused when Dooku tried to tell him the truth. Obiwan being totally dishonest is a running gag in the Auralnauts re-dub of episodes 1-6. Robot Style posted:That guy's one of the Special Edition aliens they added to replace the off-the-shelf Wolfman masks Rick Baker used in the original movie. The reason they never re-used the lizard mask anywhere else is because he's just the back of a different alien's head, with the tusks & trunk covered with a turban: Holy poo poo that’s incredible
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Nov 9, 2023 02:08
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galagazombie posted:The fact that Yoda and Obi-Wan approve of Luke rejecting their orders at the end of RotJ at the Ewok party doesn’t jive with them being malicious actors. Wrong sure, but not actively trying to turn Luke into some sociopathic robot for their personal revenge. They turn up when Luke's got Vader up on the pyre, they might just be thinking "good job Luke, didn't dick it up like it seemed like you were going to for a moment there, poo poo Anakin's here? what the gently caress."
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Nov 9, 2023 02:23
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No Mods No Masters posted:In the post prequels context it's almost impossible to imagine yoda sincerely believing luke had any chance against the emperor particularly, considering how that went for yoda when he tried it. Luke was just sort of a pawn being used to maybe take out vader and mess up sheev's pots and pans. Presumably the real play in that event was going to be grooming leia. Their “plan” such as it was, most likely entailed Luke getting years of diligent training to make him the most badass space wizard there ever was from two guys who were very much alive. Luke being almost entirely self taught save one session with Obi, Followed by like a week to a month of cardio with Yoda that he skipped out on, was not what they were probably thinking they would be sending out against Sheev. In fact it’s Luke who wants to initiate the final confrontation with evil in RotJ. Yoda doesn’t seem to think he’s ready and ghost Obi seems more resigned to Luke going than anything else.
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Nov 9, 2023 02:26
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Wolfsheim posted:In the context of ANH its portrayed less as a revenge mission and more 'Obi Wan is aware now that the empire is on Tatooine that Luke is going to be hunted down and executed no matter what happens so he might as well become a warrior monk to protect himself' That's not the context of new hope. If Kenobi wanted to protect Luke, he'd take the droids (the people the stormtroopers are actually after) from him and tell him to lie low at Toshii Station and not get involved. Luke can protect himself with a gun or a spaceship already, his father's laser sword is cool and all but not something he has any experience wielding. Why didn't Kenobi give it to him earlier? Well he wasn't ready. Ready for what?
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Nov 9, 2023 03:08
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Wolfsheim posted:You could argue the intent was always to show that no, the Jedi loving sucked and made everything worse and Luke is destined to gently caress it up or whatever but its really not there at all for the first 22 years of the series life lol The Jedi actually started out being kind of lovely and then softened quite a bit over the development of the first movie. They started out as dynastic warlords that were the Emperor's bodyguards and "the architects of the invincible Imperial space fleet", who were ousted in a coup and replaced by the new Emperor's Sith knights. As the movie began to morph into what we know today, the Jedi became more explicitly "good guys" as the spiritual aspects entered the picture and the Morality Play aspects of the movie took shape. Then the early development of The Empire Strikes Back added an element to the Jedi that made them specifically archaic and more Knightlike, with Luke swearing an oath of chivalry before being knighted. When Lucas got around to making the prequels, he decided that the Jedi as an institution were basically the Republic's mafia enforcers (an analogy he used a few times during the prequel era) and that they were usually sent on missions specifically to threaten people into falling in line. His idea of the standard Jedi negotiating tactic was for them to remove their lightsaber from their belts and place it on the table before sitting down, so that whoever they were talking to wouldn't forget how quickly they could be killed.
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Nov 9, 2023 03:27
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I mean that's more or less the purpose behind historical knights
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Nov 9, 2023 05:32
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Wolfsheim posted:Watching ANH in anticipation of this burlesque show tonight and its weird that when Luke is asking his uncle about Ben Kenobi he doesn't bring up that he saved him from a crazed woman wielding a red lightsaber just a few years earlier  lmao
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Nov 9, 2023 06:29
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Yeah I was gonna say. At least the Jedi abducted relatively random children, your regular medieval knight was an aristocrat failson or whoever was rich enough to be able to afford plate armor and a war horse.
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Nov 9, 2023 06:30
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IIRC at one point the Jedi and Sith were a Hatfields and McCoys style honor society blood feud that the galaxy had largely moved on from and somewhat orthagonal to the conflict with the Empire, as in the good guy Starkiller family that we followed were Jedi and that Lord Valorum Dark Knight of the Sith guy (who was not Darth Vader) was working with the Empire, but would turn against them once they realized how the Empire's new style of fascism had no place for the ancient honor codes they lived by.
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Nov 9, 2023 06:33
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