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Gerund posted:I believe that Trump can be up +5 in a race that has not had a billion dollars spent advertizing how important it is to vote against Trump, 365 days out, even if a single district that has had a bunch of campaign work put into it got across the line in a district that voted for Trump in 2020 literally yesterday. I absolutely agree. If Biden campaigns badly or a million other things. Do I believe he has an image and voter frustration problem? Yes. Can Trump win the next election? Yes. Absolutely to both. Can I believe that republicans won't come out unless Trump is on the ticket? Yes. But I also have a basic statement of fact. Nation-wide MAGA policies and politicians got hammered in almost every winnable election. And someone is trying to convince me that that voters came out to turn their nose up at MAGA 360 days before the next election...but not Trump? I'm incredulous.
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Nov 8, 2023 21:58
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Have you guys considered that maybe traditional outlets are hemorrhaging revenue and desperately need engagement??? https://twitter.com/BeshearStan/status/1722349342680306150 I will guarantee that the poll article they put out last week was easily their most clicked on story of the year.
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Nov 8, 2023 22:26
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zoux posted:Have you guys considered that maybe traditional outlets are hemorrhaging revenue and desperately need engagement??? weren't tuesday's elections notably high-turnout for off-year races?
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Nov 8, 2023 22:27
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EightFlyingCars posted:weren't tuesday's elections notably high-turnout for off-year races? I think the distinction is that off-year elections are “low turnout” compared to Presidential or even even year elections, even if they have high turnout relative to other off-year elections. They buried the lede though. Low-turnout elections used to favor the Republicans. That’s a big part of how they have accomplished what they have, politically. If it’s now a Democratic advantage that’s a pretty great sign to me.
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Nov 8, 2023 22:44
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Wow it's so weird how the Democrats keep out-performing the polling It's almost as if the media is trying to pretend that the Republicans are still a serious political party for some reason But that can't be right, as I have been repeatedly told throughout my life that the media is in the tank for the left
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Nov 8, 2023 22:57
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Bodyholes posted:Obama sucked and was a huge disappointment in countless ways but I'm not exactly sure what you want to do about it. we tried once and then they rigged it lol (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 8, 2023 23:16
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Well so much for the idea that Youngkin was going to be some kind of late longshot entrant to the GOP Primary https://twitter.com/GaryGrumbach/status/1722318921829617753?s=20
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Nov 8, 2023 23:22
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Apparently the 'will of the voters' isn't really a thing in Ohio? https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/2023/11/08/ohio-republicans-make-plans-after-voters-approve-issue-1-issue-2/71498030007/ quote:The two GOP leaders issued similar warnings about the abortion amendment, even though it's difficult to repeal a constitutional amendment once it's on the books. Both Huffman and Stephens supported a failed effort in August to make it harder to change the constitution, which aimed to thwart the abortion amendment. and quote:Since Issue 2 is an initiated statute, lawmakers can easily change it − and were promising to do so even before the election. House Speaker Jason Stephens, R-Kitts Hill, said Tuesday night that the Legislature should reallocate tax revenue from the adult-use program to invest more in jail construction and law enforcement training.
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Nov 8, 2023 23:37
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Cimber posted:Apparently the 'will of the voters' isn't really a thing in Ohio? For the first part, yes there are avenues to try and change it but they aren’t going to be able to do it without a vote as far as I understand. They’re threatening to continue putting it up to a vote. For the second part… yea. Sigh. We desperately need to pass the gerrymandering amendment and simultaneously boot the GOP out of the statehouse to unfuck some of this in 2024.
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Nov 8, 2023 23:40
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Cimber posted:Apparently the 'will of the voters' isn't really a thing in Ohio? John Kasich, former Governor of Ohio and Presidential candidate, is on video saying basically "We shouldn't leave some things up to democracy, like abortion and marijuana!"
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Nov 8, 2023 23:43
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30 TO 50 FERAL HOG posted:we tried once and then they rigged it lol Rigged it how?
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Nov 8, 2023 23:56
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socialsecurity posted:Rigged it how? I'm assuming they might be talking about Bernie vs Hillary, and the DNC very much put it's thumb on the scale in that primary election in 2016.
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Nov 8, 2023 23:58
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The 2020 Iowa caucus debacle also comes to mind. The app they used was developed by a company with ties to the guy running the caucuses, and he got promoted upwards after screwing that particular pooch. The company that built the app was taking money from Buttigieg, Gillibrand and Biden campaigns too, which didn’t really lend them an air of propriety. If you’re going to make a vote-counting app, IMO, you should probably spin that work off into a separate company that doesn’t accept money from individual campaigns. Not even going to touch how Buttigieg just decided to declare victory and move on there, and how the media decided to go along with that.
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Nov 9, 2023 00:04
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I'm assuming they might be talking about Bernie vs Hillary, and the DNC very much put it's thumb on the scale in that primary election in 2016. This seems like a pretty different claim than the primary being rigged
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Nov 9, 2023 00:06
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zoux posted:Have you guys considered that maybe traditional outlets are hemorrhaging revenue and desperately need engagement??? I actually just sent them an email about this story. They initially claimed and later deleted that special elections are not predictive of the general, which is simply untrue. There is no retraction as far as I can see (unless I really hosed up and mixed it up with another NY Times article).
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Nov 9, 2023 00:08
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socialsecurity posted:Rigged it how?  LIKE A DOG
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Nov 9, 2023 00:08
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There was also that point in the 2020 primary when Obama made some phone calls and all the clown car candidates (Buttigieg, Harris, and I think some others) simultaneously dropped out of the race so support could coalesce around Biden. I don't know if rigged is the right word, but the democratic establishment went out of its way several times to keep Sanders from being the nominee.
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Nov 9, 2023 00:19
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Blastedhellscape posted:There was also that point in the 2020 primary when Obama made some phone calls and all the clown car candidates (Buttigieg, Harris, and I think some others) simultaneously dropped out of the race so support could coalesce around Biden. I don't know if rigged is the right word, but the democratic establishment went out of its way several times to keep Sanders from being the nominee. Yes, Buttigieg and Klobuchar suddenly dropped out the day before Super Tuesday. Harris was one of the first to drop out, though-- back in 2019.
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Nov 9, 2023 00:21
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The accusations of rigging really jumped the shark when it was decided that 'candidates quitting and their voters picking Biden' counted. Like, cmon. Real Freep-level 'its rigging because we lost' energy.
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Nov 9, 2023 00:25
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Blastedhellscape posted:There was also that point in the 2020 primary when Obama made some phone calls and all the clown car candidates (Buttigieg, Harris, and I think some others) simultaneously dropped out of the race so support could coalesce around Biden. I don't know if rigged is the right word, but the democratic establishment went out of its way several times to keep Sanders from being the nominee. The weird route where Trump got through the primary through his competition through their constantly tripping over each other while he grabbed delegates via winner-take-all was never going to work for Bernie because Democratic primaries don't work like that, and the part where it continued because everyone was hanging on long past the point of viability without coalescing around a single candidate was also never going to happen because Democratic races by and large don't work like that. And it really feels like his victory strategy counted on it. What sank him was that despite four years of being genuinely well-liked and in the public eye he wasn't able to really translate that into new voter support that outweighed the 2016 support he just got from being not-Hillary and lost when there were a dozen not-Hillaries to pick from.
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Nov 9, 2023 00:29
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selec posted:Not even going to touch how Buttigieg just decided to declare victory and move on there, and how the media decided to go along with that. One weird trick to winning elections, candidates hate him!
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Nov 9, 2023 00:29
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:The accusations of rigging really jumped the shark when it was decided that 'candidates quitting and their voters picking Biden' counted. Like, cmon. Real Freep-level 'its rigging because we lost' energy. It was definitely amusing seeing the conversation go from being dismissive of centrist voltron possibly being a threat to complaining about centrist voltron actually working in Biden's favor as being unfair. The fact of the matter was the race very early was allowed to become a clear choice between Biden and Sanders and the primary electorate chose who they chose, none of that can be reasonably considered rigging; its just how a reasonable democracy can be considered to function.
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Nov 9, 2023 00:32
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Blastedhellscape posted:There was also that point in the 2020 primary when Obama made some phone calls and all the clown car candidates (Buttigieg, Harris, and I think some others) simultaneously dropped out of the race so support could coalesce around Biden. I don't know if rigged is the right word, but the democratic establishment went out of its way several times to keep Sanders from being the nominee. You are largely misremembering. The only phone call we know of was to Buttigieg, and I think it's a pretty tough proposition that that was what swung Buttigieg's decision given the other concessions he demonstrably received and the fact his numbers were completely doomed. I'm more inclined to think it was an essentially free favor that kept Biden from having to fork over anything else.
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Nov 9, 2023 00:33
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I dunno about y'all but I'd favor a permanent ban on discussions of the 2016 and 2020 democratic primaries because, besides the fact that it is indeed the stalest political topic possible, it's also extremely irritating and if I never hear about it again it will be too soon.
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Nov 9, 2023 00:33
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Barney woulda won
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Nov 9, 2023 00:34
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Bwee posted:Barney Frank's disgusting and disrespectful nipples woulda won
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Nov 9, 2023 00:54
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Killer robot posted:The weird route where Trump got through the primary through his competition through their constantly tripping over each other while he grabbed delegates via winner-take-all was never going to work for Bernie because Democratic primaries don't work like that, and the part where it continued because everyone was hanging on long past the point of viability without coalescing around a single candidate was also never going to happen because Democratic races by and large don't work like that. And it really feels like his victory strategy counted on it. What sank him was that despite four years of being genuinely well-liked and in the public eye he wasn't able to really translate that into new voter support that outweighed the 2016 support he just got from being not-Hillary and lost when there were a dozen not-Hillaries to pick from. Yeah I thought about adding an edit to my post but got busy and walked away and forgot about it. I wanna be clear that the DNC clearly had it's thumb on the scale for Hillary in 2016. But beyond being wrong for corruption's sake, it was also unnecessary. She was getting more votes than Bernie.
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Nov 9, 2023 01:04
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Cimber posted:Apparently the 'will of the voters' isn't really a thing in Ohio?
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Nov 9, 2023 01:15
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30 TO 50 FERAL HOG posted:we tried once and then they rigged it lol of course the primaries are rigged the general election is too, structurally, in so many ways the media apparatus is as well it's an uphill battle for justice in this harsh world but we made progress, slowly. the justice democrats weren't a thing before 2016. Even though Bernie failed, he did not fail at spreading his ideas and increasing progressive representation in Congress and in state houses across the country. The primaries that those progressives won were not rigged sufficiently enough to stop them from winning, and more can be won that way until a sufficient amount of power in the party is there to break whatever force is pressing on the bigger contests.
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Nov 9, 2023 01:18
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Nelson Mandingo posted:
I've taken a 3-month sabbatical over this summer, and traveled some 25,000 miles, mostly across the American Midwest and west. I visited dozens of truck stop bars, back roads, diners, and typical places that are filled with Trump supporters, basically. The first response I got to a lot of people when I told him I was from New York was some attempt to trigger me, a racist comment or some kind of jab. But once we got past that initial interaction, I learned that many of the manga Trump people I spoke to are done with the Republican party, which seems to connect to yesterday's results. One reason why, sourced from several people I talked with, is that they are just sick of the constant fighting. I don't know if it's the culture wars blowing up too much, or what. I also heard a lot of discussions with the abortion ruling. Most people agree that abortion should be safe, legal and rare. The strongest points that I heard had to do with stopping the fighting between Republicans and Democrats. Not letting this poo poo split us up so much. Anyway, This is the definition of anecdote or not data, but for what it's worth there it is.
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Nov 9, 2023 01:27
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Byzantine posted:He's generally good. He's not a firebrand progressive, but he's on the right side of things. He's also got that 'mature, levelheaded leader in a crisis' vibe; back in the early pandemic before the battle lines got drawn, everybody was praising his handling and happy we had him and not the chucklefuck who was in before. thanks, and yes the rest of the state wide positions up to vote seemed to be going republican with double digit margins. that's part of what interests me about beshear, he seems to be bucking the wider trend in his state and hasn't been in office for decades like manchin or tester to build up that support. i'm wondering what he's doing that's producing this result (policy, charisma, getting lucky with incredibly bad opponents, etc.) it's not as if democrats have a particularly deep bench on the national level right now, so i have to figure he's got a strong inclination to run down the line
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Nov 9, 2023 01:28
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Leon Sumbitches posted:I've taken a 3-month sabbatical over this summer, and traveled some 25,000 miles, mostly across the American Midwest and west. I visited dozens of truck stop bars, back roads, diners, and typical places that are filled with Trump supporters, basically. They want less fighting, but immediately tried to set you off. Got it. It sounds more like they just don't want to have to constantly defend their values. White middle class Americans would love it if the minorities just simmered down so they didn't have to think about politics as much, as is their priviilege.
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Nov 9, 2023 01:38
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When the Republican brand was at its most toxic around the 2008 crash and the failures of Iraq/Afghanistan, a lot of former diehards were "Done with the Republican party" and it lasted for a little while as they joined the Tea Party movement that rejected both parties in favor of the oh whoops now it's just the right flank of the Republican Party. That cycle is finite though, if only because the 55-year-old disgruntled Boomers going to rallies then are 70 year old retirees keeping it up on Facebook now.
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Nov 9, 2023 01:51
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FlamingLiberal posted:This is similar to the poo poo they pulled here in FL when we passed Amendment 4, which was supposed to legalize felon voting. The legislature passed a bill that restricted it to felons who paid all of their restitution, and when the state was sued because people trying to get their voting rights back couldn't determine how much they even owed due to faulty court records, the courts upheld the new bill saying that the state isn't legally required to tell someone how much they owe. So I have no idea how many ex-felons actually had their voting rights restored. This seems like incredibly fertile soil to grow a 6-3 ruling from. 
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Nov 9, 2023 01:55
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but can they own guns?
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Nov 9, 2023 02:00
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Jaxyon posted:They want less fighting, but immediately tried to set you off. theyre bullys that want easy fights. or if theyre the young proud boy bros, they want to be a videogame protag that grinds easy mobs.
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Nov 9, 2023 02:08
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Nervous posted:This seems like incredibly fertile soil to grow a 6-3 ruling from.
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Nov 9, 2023 03:09
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Jaxyon posted:They want less fighting, but immediately tried to set you off. You weren’t present, and you have no idea what transpired. Maybe you can take the anecdote at face value instead of telling the OP what really happened to him?
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Nov 9, 2023 03:18
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The Top G posted:You weren’t present, and you have no idea what transpired. Maybe you can take the anecdote at face value instead of telling the OP what really happened to him? I'm going by my *own* anecdotal experience, which lines up with how his anecdotal experience was described. Anyway, people are sleeping on Sephiroth because he's got that gothy sadboi grippy sock energy, and also he has a very long....sword.
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Nov 9, 2023 03:21
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Jaxyon posted:They want less fighting, but immediately tried to set you off. Who said they were middle class? The people I mentioned, to a one, are the working poor.
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Nov 9, 2023 03:32
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