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DontMockMySmock posted:I have a friend irl who has some mobility issues. They mostly play turn-based games, for which it is mostly not an issue, but they often express to me the wish that they could play more action-based games. Some action-based games they have played and enjoyed, for example Hades, with the help of the game's easy mode. Easy modes literally make them able to access more games. And of course I know they're not alone in this. Maybe if I'd never met them, I'd still have douchey opinions like yours, but it turns out that all it takes is listening to the experiences of people different to you to understand the world a little better! As I said. They like punching down. They get off on it. And they don't realize they are doing it. It's pathetic. It's akin to bullying, actually.
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Nov 9, 2023 06:24
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Waltzing Along posted:You're right. They are wrong. They can't admit they are wrong, though, because too much of their identity is based on beating a video game. i get it. my identity is also based on beating a video game. but that video game is, coryoon child of dragon
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Nov 9, 2023 06:26
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Accessibility and difficulty in games is actually an extremely fascinating topic that is garnering a lot of research and I think that's good. There's no objective answer to it but it is very interesting. The "difficulty is not accessibility" statement can be both true and also not true depending on what the difficulty actually effects which is neat. If it effects AI intelligence and response, health and damage etc you can *probably* say it doesn't affect accessibility, but if difficulty reduces, say, aim assistance, or reduces party timing windows, or even removes enemy highlighting that would definitely fall into a discussion of accessibility. The thing is that doesn't make, say, reducing party timing windows a *bad* way of increasing difficulty, it's a simple and effective way to do so and can certainly be a pleasant way for a lot of players to experience a harder difficulty, but it also definitely reduces accessibility for people who are disabled and have issues with reflex and timing, and are not able to, as people say, "git gud". Difficulty and accessibility discussions often go hand in hand when it comes to design with considerations for accessibility and there's no objective or true answer, it's pretty dang interesting.
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Nov 9, 2023 06:28
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the dark souls difficulty option discussion has in an eternal state of stalemate for over a decade, and will continue until the heat death of the universe
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Nov 9, 2023 06:29
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Waltzing Along posted:As I said. They like punching down. They get off on it. And they don't realize they are doing it. It's pathetic. It's akin to bullying, actually. I think it's important that punching down be allowed or else I wouldn't be able to talk poo poo about people for liking the games they like. That'd be wrong. They have to know. I am doing them a favor. Gosh I am so great. I don't really care if they are good at video games though that's not important to me.
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Nov 9, 2023 06:34
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I have a friend who can't play video games because certain patterns will trigger an epileptic seizure; accessibility might as well be on the loving moon as far as he's concerned.
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Nov 9, 2023 06:37
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DontMockMySmock posted:gently caress you. I made a clear analogy and you replied by pretending not to understand how analogies work. I don't know what to tell you, dude. If you don't like patronizing comments being thrown your way, maybe don't feign ignorance on basic concepts just to get a dig in?
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Nov 9, 2023 06:37
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tango alpha delta posted:I have a friend who can't play video games because certain patterns will trigger an epileptic seizure; accessibility might as well be on the loving moon as far as he's concerned. Just use black and white mode.
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Nov 9, 2023 06:49
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Devils Affricate posted:I made a clear analogy and you replied by pretending not to understand how analogies work. I don't know what to tell you, dude. If you don't like patronizing comments being thrown your way, maybe don't feign ignorance on basic concepts just to get a dig in? i actually explained quite succinctly why that was a loving stupid analogy and you're the one who disengaged from the topic while being an rear end
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Nov 9, 2023 06:57
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DontMockMySmock posted:out of all the things mentioned, this is the only one that the game actually tells you is supposed to be some kind of in-game easy mode. problem is you can't loving summon poo poo when you're playing a game years after release during off-peak hours on pc (no cross-platform afaik). might as well have not existed as a mechanic for my playthrough. maybe don't go throwing stones in glass houses mr. can't figure out how to read the stat descriptions on items
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Nov 9, 2023 06:59
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DontMockMySmock posted:i actually explained quite succinctly why that was a loving stupid analogy and you're the one who disengaged from the topic while being an rear end This is all you said DontMockMySmock posted:ketchup isn't an accessibility issue you goddamned goblin Taking an analogy that draws a comparison between X and Y and angrily stating that X is not Y is not a succinct (or any type of) takedown of that analogy. It's just a demonstration of a failure to understand what analogies are.
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Nov 9, 2023 07:09
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Jeffrey needs to add an “invaded by <whoever> popup” when someone mentions dark souls in this thread
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Nov 9, 2023 07:15
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Waltzing Along posted:I've finished all the soulsborne games except DS2 which is an awful game. I have plats in BB, ER, and Sek. So suck my balls. I'm good enough at the games and I think they need accessibility options for people who want them. I platted DS1 and ER while having a paralysed right arm and I think your 'accessibility' thing is an attempt to look righteous and munificent while actually being a mope. Calling everyone who thinks the game is good the way it is a vicious hateful ableist bully is the behaviour of a psychotic or a person convincingly acting like one.
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Nov 9, 2023 07:54
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tango alpha delta posted:They are good games which you have hand waved away: Spoon River Anthology is a good book, agreed Contributing to game design does not make a game good, see Kill.Switch or Operation:Winback
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Nov 9, 2023 08:11
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Battletoads is way more bullshit than Dark Souls anywau
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Nov 9, 2023 08:22
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Talking about Dark Souls turns each thread into a Dark Souls game briefly. We now have to face these foes. The Accesibility Demon: Attacks you with vague mentions of accessibility. You have to defeat them by rolling through the wild accusations of you being a political conservative, and hit them in the weak spot. The weak spot being them not actually talking about accessibility at all. Immune to: "Git gud" Bad Analogist Casts Bad Analogy thinking it was a zinger. You have to wait until Bad Analogy wears off and they realize how stupid the analogy was. You have a brief window to attack until they cast another bad analogy. Immune to: Reason A Giant Skeleton With A Sword Like a normal skeleton but big. Swings at you with a sword, just roll through it. Makes a distinct clacking sound when attacking. Immune to: Difficulty Settings
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Nov 9, 2023 09:18
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Dark Souls isn't even that hard for most people, it's very hard if you don't have thumbs and I guess that's technically a little ableist
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Nov 9, 2023 09:46
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I don't really care about Dark Souls or whatever but responding to accessibility concerns with "just get good" demonstrates a pretty inherent misunderstanding of the concept 
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Nov 9, 2023 09:50
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QuarkJets posted:Dark Souls isn't even that hard for most people, it's very hard if you don't have thumbs and I guess that's technically a little ableist syntaxfunction posted:I don't really care about Dark Souls or whatever but responding to accessibility concerns with "just get good" demonstrates a pretty inherent misunderstanding of the concept Vic fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Nov 9, 2023 |
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Nov 9, 2023 09:56
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Lucky & Wild is one of the best arcade games ever made.
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Nov 9, 2023 10:03
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Looks fun what do you do
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Nov 9, 2023 10:06
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I've been playing Aliens Dark Descent and it's very good but the real best-in-class aliens game is actually an unlicensed board game called Nemesis, sorry idiots even when your franchise rarely does something good it's still beaten by imitators and that's pretty funny
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Nov 9, 2023 10:11
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If you have a friend, one of you has to be the driver while your friend gets to shoot wildly with magically non-lethal bullets at hordes of very rich bad guys and have a great time with each of you having a chance to shine. If you don't have a friend you can learn the harsh lesson that life is hard and unforgivingly cruel when you have no one at your side and have to do everything on your own. QuarkJets posted:I've been playing Aliens Dark Descent and it's very good but the real best-in-class aliens game is actually an unlicensed board game called Nemesis, sorry idiots even when your franchise rarely does something good it's still beaten by imitators and that's pretty funny The best aliens theme ride is now Lilo and Stitch themed.
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Nov 9, 2023 10:13
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Vic posted:There's plenty of good discussion re: elden ring and accessibility and none of that is happening in this thread, because people bringing it up are not actually interested in discussing it. It's true, often the discussion seems to become that difficulty = accessibility or that you should simply get better at games but there's a lot of other factors that are involved and there's no black and white take that exists. It's a design focus point of mine, because it's so interesting. Like, take an online game where a specific armour set, purely visual, can only be obtained by, say, a flawless team run of a dungeon or something. That seems, to me, perfectly fine and dandy, but it certainly runs into realistic accessibility issues such as: - is communication required? - if it is then does it necessitate verbal communication? Does that require quick and/or rapid response? - does timing need to be synchronised between players and if so what is the leniency for reaction and or communication delays? - is there a written or symbol reading component and if so is it easily communicable? Those are just a couple, but it's a good example of something that I, personally as a disabled person, would find acceptable, but the difficulty requirement and restrictions could definitely raise accessibility concerns. But at some point any sort of hurdle or difficulty bump could possibly an accessibility concern, and it's not something to dismiss, but nor can you villify the idea of difficulty inherently because a lot of games require something of a challenge to entice players. Sorry I'm rambling, but it's a fascinating area of design.
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Nov 9, 2023 10:18
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So, panzercorps 2 has a huge set of difficulty settings (and other interesting modifications to the core gameplay like how much luck is involved in combat, from "tons" to "none at all") when you start a campaign. This does not detract from the game in the slightest, even though, if you really wanted to, you could 'set your own difficulty' by using a more or less optimized core, or engage with encirclement mechanics or not. It's actually a good thing to be up front with a player and let them decide how they want to enjoy the game. In another example, doom has several difficulty settings (though Ultra-Violence tends to be the consensus of what most people play). Would it be a better game if the only way to make the game easier or more difficult would be to self-impose challenges, or use cheat codes?
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Nov 9, 2023 10:44
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syntaxfunction posted:It's true, often the discussion seems to become that difficulty = accessibility or that you should simply get better at games but there's a lot of other factors that are involved and there's no black and white take that exists. Yeah trying to do that first raid in destiny 2 sucked rear end. I love how every other attempt was disrupted by the perpetual argument of "Cup" vs. "Chalice" where people would suddenly pretend like they didn't know what a cup or a chalice was just because you didn't use whatever word they wanted, or that somehow "Cup" sounded like "Dog".
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Nov 9, 2023 10:47
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I am pretty good at video games, but am very, very bad at Dark Souls. I've tried it, I just can't get better at it. I don't want to play an "easy" version of Dark Souls; I want to experience what other people do. I feel like there's a barrier I can't cross, so I'll have to just enjoy it vicariously or something.Khanstant posted:Battletoads is way more bullshit than Dark Souls anywau There's no single enemy that is tough to beat in Battletoads; all the difficulty is just environmental timing stuff. I can (almost) beat Battletoads. I can't get anywhere in Dark Souls 
credburn fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Nov 9, 2023 |
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Nov 9, 2023 11:24
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You won't get anywhere with that attitude, you just have to believe in yourself as much as I believe in you. You can do it man.
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Nov 9, 2023 11:44
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Sorry, Doom is ruined because you can just type iddqd if you're tired
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Nov 9, 2023 11:51
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I feel like bringing up random games with difficulty settings for comparison to soulsgames is as useful as bringing up random games without difficulty settings. You can have a game that lets you customize everything and lets you decide how and when it challenges you. You can have a game where you let the developer dictate the challenge you'll be facing. There's appeal to both. Git gud at appreciating games noob.
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Nov 9, 2023 11:52
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Caesar Saladin posted:Souls games don't need a difficulty setting, people just need to believe in themselves. "Get good" just means "I know you can do it, just keep trying." You just gotta evade the enemy attacks and hit them until their health goes down. This is the key. I was stuck on Bloodborne for years until one of our venerable admins VideoGames started playing it really badly on stream and I thought if he could do it then so could I and hell, that's how I got the plat and beat a bunch of other souls games afterward.
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Nov 9, 2023 11:59
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I'm Crap posted:I platted DS1 and ER while having a paralysed right arm and I think your 'accessibility' thing is an attempt to look righteous and munificent while actually being a mope. Calling everyone who thinks the game is good the way it is a vicious hateful ableist bully is the behaviour of a psychotic or a person convincingly acting like one. They got chased out of the PS5 thread for posting like this over a year ago and they took refuge in this thread to keep at it lmao
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Nov 9, 2023 12:01
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The Souls games are pretty hard games, anybody who says they're easy is full of it. The enemies hit very hard and are aggressive and the death punishments can be pretty brutal. But once you learn how to play them, and the kind of gameplay that's expected of you, they are manageable for just about everybody with a bit of determination and patience. Honestly a rebalancing of an easy mode where they don't hit very hard would kind of just mess up the gameplay, if you could just beat the bosses down while facerolling through the attacks there isn't much of a game there at all. I first played Demon's Souls when it came out in 2010 or whatever and I found it unbelievably hard, but after I came back to it I could smash my way through it with no problem. Its a game you can absolutely get better at once you get used to the controls and lean into the kind of pace and practices that it expects you to have during combat.
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Nov 9, 2023 12:09
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If a game doesn't require skill or knowledge to complete, it isn't a game at all it isn't a game, it's a passtime, like watching paint dry.
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Nov 9, 2023 12:45
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We don't get upset that some people can't skateboard. Some people are too bad at games to see the end and that's okay, and in fact, how it should be.
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Nov 9, 2023 12:46
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The only possible acceptable zelda movie will be like the cartoon with liberal uses of "excuuuse me princess" featuring no one named Chris
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Nov 9, 2023 12:58
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David Lynch may be the only director who can pull it off
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Nov 9, 2023 12:59
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Caesar Saladin posted:The Souls games are pretty hard games, anybody who says they're easy is full of it. The enemies hit very hard and are aggressive and the death punishments can be pretty brutal. But once you learn how to play them, and the kind of gameplay that's expected of you, they are manageable for just about everybody with a bit of determination and patience. Honestly a rebalancing of an easy mode where they don't hit very hard would kind of just mess up the gameplay, if you could just beat the bosses down while facerolling through the attacks there isn't much of a game there at all. I'm Too Young To Die isn't really that interesting to me, either, but it's interesting for someone.
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Nov 9, 2023 13:26
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If you don't find that bass line interesting then that is absolutely a you problem
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Nov 9, 2023 13:29
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satanic splash-back posted:If a game doesn't require skill or knowledge to complete, it isn't a game at all it isn't a game, it's a passtime, like watching paint dry. It's spelled pastime and I think this realization might help your confusion and stuttering problem
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Nov 9, 2023 13:36
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