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Don't worry, the LIGHTNING NETWORK™ will solve everything! Coming soon in
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Nov 9, 2023 20:12
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| # ? May 29, 2024 20:17 |
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It's actually a CIA secret plot that keeps bitcoin alive since cops love that it makes crimes so easy to track
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Nov 9, 2023 20:14
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kw0134 posted:Don't worry, the LIGHTNING NETWORK™ will solve everything! Coming soon in I stopped hearing about the lightning network a couple years back, what happened there
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Nov 9, 2023 20:26
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Fate Accomplice posted:I stopped hearing about the lightning network a couple years back, what happened there All the issues it was going to solve turned out to be FUD and bitcoin doesn't have any problems.
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Nov 9, 2023 20:30
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Mercury_Storm posted:It's actually a NSA directive that keeps bitcoin alive since cops love that it makes crimes so easy to track FTFY
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Nov 9, 2023 20:32
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Nessus posted:Presumably if I buy an ETF through Schwab, and later sell my shares in that ETF, Schwab will give me my money. The problem comes if the exchange in question abruptly dies/is pillaged, but what are the odds of that? Issues with ETFs often involve liquidity; for example if there's not enough people willing to take your ETF units off your hands when you want to sell, or the ETF manager can't sell the underlying asset fast enough to keep up with ETF investors selling their units.
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Nov 9, 2023 20:42
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gay picnic defence posted:In that situation it's likely you can simply transfer to another exchange and sell them through that instead. Share markets are generally better regulated so an exchange going under shouldn't mean any shares you own go up in smoke like when a crypto exchange collapses. So, an asset that is hard to sell in bulk would be an issue?
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Nov 9, 2023 20:57
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Fate Accomplice posted:I stopped hearing about the lightning network a couple years back, what happened there
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Nov 9, 2023 20:59
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It was easy to do the equivalent of a runescape trade scam on the lightning network. So easy in fact they had to implement watchdog nodes to punish people who do it lmao
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Nov 9, 2023 21:02
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Nessus posted:Presumably if I buy an ETF through Schwab, and later sell my shares in that ETF, Schwab will give me my money. The problem comes if the exchange in question abruptly dies/is pillaged, but what are the odds of that? now, the legal entity that is the "bitcoin ETF" does still have to worry about not losing all of the bitcoins it actually holds, so all you've really done is made the risks and costs of holding and trading bitcoin the responsibility of the managers of the ETF, rather than yourself as shareholder of the ETF. the ETF shareholders still bear those risks and costs indirectly, they've just centralized those problems and put someone else (the ETF's managers) in charge of handling it. which is the reason that approval for a bitcoin ETF has been (rightfully) refused so far: bitcoins are still stupid and useless for everything except scams and money laundering, putting on a pair of gloves before you touch the poop does not change the fact that you are still playing with poop
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Nov 9, 2023 21:20
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The blackboard labeled GAME THEORY above a bunch of random unrelated equations from physics, quantum mechanics, electromagnetics, and high school trigonometry really sells the image of bitcoiners as sophisticated experts in math, economics, and finance, and not a pseudointellectual cargo cult at all. Me? Oh I'm studying game theory, it's much too complicated for you no-coiners to understand *types 'complicated math' into Google image search and copies down Gauss's Law* VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Nov 9, 2023 |
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Nov 9, 2023 23:15
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The Custody Starter Kit is what coiners need when they lose the inevitable family court battle
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Nov 9, 2023 23:24
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The Custody Starter Kit is just a big bowl of chilli.
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Nov 9, 2023 23:29
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"financial sovereignty" is not one of the catchphrases I've seen too often, but I like it because it really drives home that this is just the sovereign-citizen mindset updated for the computer-touching generation
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Nov 9, 2023 23:35
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SettingSun posted:You can cash out bitcoin more or less without issue unless you try to do so at volume. Lord Satoshi himself is rumored to hold over a million bitcoins, worth tens of billions, but moving that much is all but impossible, real or not. I wanna quote this as a thing that people point to genuinely as "so obviously it's fine" when it actually points to a solvency issue. I would not trust any crypto exchange, anywhere, to actually let people, en masse, sell their crypto. We see time and again that every time anything close to that happens the exchange goes "whoops sorry we actually don't have the money to actually let you cash out lol" because why would they? Most of these exchanges are just some assholes running a site. Look at FTX for the big example of the most "securely backed" exchange lmao. Realistically if Bitcoin magically "goes to the moon" (let's say a million, that's someone idiots think is doable) and a bunch of people (100 people, ooh a massive amount of people's!) try to cash out they'll get told that no one actually has $100 million in for real cash for them, because where the gently caress are they gonna get $100 million from suddenly? And why would anyway actually buy them? And if you get told "nope" then what do you fucken do then? Cashing out has always been the hardest part of the crypto equation and that is hilarious.
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Nov 9, 2023 23:36
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syntaxfunction posted:I wanna quote this as a thing that people point to genuinely as "so obviously it's fine" when it actually points to a solvency issue.
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Nov 9, 2023 23:41
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Platystemon posted:The Custody Starter Kit is just a big bowl of chilli.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:00
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kw0134 posted:Gotta wait for six confirmations to be sure, so sit back in the waiting room for the next hour or else you get tazed in the balls for leaving without paying. Jokes on you, getting my balls tazed is my fetish, and this is the cheapest option!
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Nov 10, 2023 00:03
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Blotto_Otter posted:"financial sovereignty" is not one of the catchphrases I've seen too often, but I like it because it really drives home that this is just the sovereign-citizen mindset updated for the computer-touching generation Lmao, computers, as machines that MUST operate within an extremely precise instruction set, are the exact opposite of the sovereign citizen mindset and will never, ever be compatible.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:08
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Which exchanges can you actually get money out of now, many aren't allowed US bank accounts, I think Binance just lost all its EU ones so they converted all the euros on their books to tethers.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:09
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i was doubtful before but the chad meme convinced me to go all in on bag holding for criminals.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:49
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That depends on if they get the same UV lights there or not.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:54
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Lammasu posted:So, an asset that is hard to sell in bulk would be an issue? Yeah, it’s happened or been at risk of happening several times with actual investments. The Ark ETFs were looking shaky for a while because they held a large % of shares in companies with low trading volumes. If they had to liquidate those assets they’d be in a bit of trouble because there simply wasn’t a big enough market for the volume of shares they’d have to unload.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:55
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Blotto_Otter posted:"financial sovereignty" is not one of the catchphrases I've seen too often, but I like it because it really drives home that this is just the sovereign-citizen mindset updated for the computer-touching generation It's the same insanity all the way down into colloidal silver and tesla electrical machinery.
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Nov 10, 2023 01:07
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Fate Accomplice posted:I stopped hearing about the lightning network a couple years back, what happened there
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Nov 10, 2023 01:19
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SettingSun posted:You can cash out bitcoin more or less without issue unless you try to do so at volume. Lord Satoshi himself is rumored to hold over a million bitcoins, worth tens of billions, but moving that much is all but impossible, real or not. You could move enough to make you never work again wealthy. Those first unmoved bitcoins that's Satoshi's rumored to have are almost certainly lost. Or they're dead, which amounts to the same thing. Pretty sure organized crime still use bitcoin for laundering/moving illegitimate money, so that would see an influx of some cash at least, or have they moved on to something else now?
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Nov 10, 2023 01:35
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Nah, bitcoin is not very good for crimes, despite not having any other use. Most of the real action is in tether
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Nov 10, 2023 01:38
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tango alpha delta posted:Lmao, computers, as machines that MUST operate within an extremely precise instruction set, are the exact opposite of the sovereign citizen mindset and will never, ever be compatible.
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Nov 10, 2023 01:45
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drk posted:Nah, bitcoin is not very good for crimes, despite not having any other use. bitcoin's really good at funding the north korean nuclear program though
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Nov 10, 2023 01:49
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drk posted:Nah, bitcoin is not very good for crimes, despite not having any other use. At some point in the future we are going to be hearing an awful lot about Tether.
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Nov 10, 2023 01:55
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14 years later, BITCOIN... ...is still processing your transaction.
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Nov 10, 2023 02:48
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drk posted:Nah, bitcoin is not very good for crimes, despite not having any other use. Ah fair enough. Tether you say, just going to write that down for future... not massive international money laundering schemes. 
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Nov 10, 2023 02:51
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Not sure how saying nothing about a process has changed in 14 years is a good thing.
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Nov 10, 2023 02:51
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Remember how Bitcoin is decentralized but also a central organisation makes decisions for it? Also exchanges become a thing because people didn't want to deal with the decentralized element? Good times. I actually go around and do technical consulting pitches for Bitcoins to businesses. I don't get paid to do it, I just enjoy seeing some business get hosed up by it, it's really funny. I'm trying to convince VISA to have a Bitcoin card specifically marketed to tourists. I think it'll really cause chaos when someone visits another country, tries to pay for something and then the transaction is just not happening and everyone is awkward and then eventually the merchant starts thinking they're getting ripped off and the customer is freaking out cause they don't even know what's happening because they never actually tell you it'll take forever to process (and sometimes it just won't because anyway) Bitcoin is good, if you enjoy that sort of thing.
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Nov 10, 2023 02:54
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SettingSun posted:It was easy to do the equivalent of a runescape trade scam on the lightning network. So easy in fact they had to implement watchdog nodes to punish people who do it lmao I wish to know more.
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Nov 10, 2023 02:57
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gay picnic defence posted:Issues with ETFs often involve liquidity; for example if there's not enough people willing to take your ETF units off your hands when you want to sell, or the ETF manager can't sell the underlying asset fast enough to keep up with ETF investors selling their units. A long time ago, there were only individual stocks. If you wanted broad exposure or fancy stockpicking, you'd personally buy everything individually. That is complicated and also expensive, since this is also before the days where buying fractional shares was a thing (If you wanted a S&P 500 like thing, you can only buy those in multiples of the ~$4k total price of its components). Mutual funds were invented to deal with this. After trading closes each day, the fund posts a price and people buy/sell shares of the fund for cash at that price. Then the fund management buys/sells the underlying assets later to fix any buy-sell imbalance. The fund charges a % fee on every shareholder to pay for itself That is annoying for a few reasons: - The fund is regularly having to buy and sell stuff to keep up with customers entering/exiting. It's also having to deal with lots of individual customers. That has transaction costs for the buys/sells, and operational costs to deal with all those people - In the US, selling a security for a profit triggers capital gains tax. So as customer churn in and out, the fund is also triggering tax costs whenever it sells and those add more expense Exchange Traded Funds were invented to deal with that: - The fund itself does not deal with piddly individual orders. It only deals with big giant companies, and only in big lots (e.g. 50,000 shares). This reduces transaction costs. - Creating new fund shares or destroying them back is done with barter, not cash. If you want to create 50,000 new shares in a ETF that is tracking S&P 500, it is your problem to go get 50,000 x (all the shares in the index). Then you swap those stocks to the ETF for 50,000 ETF shares. Destroying ETF shares works in reverse, you can redeem your 50,000 ETF shares and get the component stocks. There are no capital gains events and the fund doesn't deal with the money<=>stock conversion costs - When most people deal with buying/selling ETF shares, they are not dealing with the ETF itself. The companies that got those big lots will break them up into individual shares and sell them on a secondary market. It's somewhat analogous to how a company issuing new stock/doing a stock buyback is different from trading an existing stock share. Apple-the-company doesn't run the sales or directly interact with people trading Apple shares on NASDAQ. - Since it is a secondary market, liquidity comes from market makers with a bid-ask spread. Basically going "I have lots of shares and will either buy more for $100 or sell them for $101". The less liquid the thing and less competition for the market, the wider the price spread. For normal people, giant index tracking things: - The ETF equivalent of an index is cheaper to hold long term (smaller % fee because the fund has less costs). Buying/selling will cost you a stockbroker commission for the order just like an ordinary stock - The mutual fund equivalent of an index is cheaper (free) to buy/sell (transaction costs are effectively subsidized by everybody who is holding). The recurring % fee to pay for fund expenses is higher For a SEC-approved bitcoin ETF, basically they'd need to do: - Satisfy SEC that they can hold stuff without it being stolen, the same way a gold bars ETF has to satisfy the SEC about physical security - Have a mechanism for Big Trusted Market Maker Companies to go "Here's 50,000 bitcoin to put in your vault, give me 50,000 ETF shares" and the reverse. The ETF would never actually need to deal with changing bitcoin for cash (The main SEC objections are about how crypto is full of market manipulation, but they already lost a lawsuit about them blocking bitcoin futures, which have the same underlying objection)
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Nov 10, 2023 05:55
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zetamind2000 posted:bitcoin's really good at funding the north korean nuclear program though Plus Russia and Hamas
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Nov 10, 2023 06:10
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Foxfire_ posted:If you wanted a S&P 500 like thing, you can only buy those in multiples of the ~$4k total price of its components The index price is not a sum of the value of its components (which would imply an average share price of less than  )
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Nov 10, 2023 06:16
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drk posted:The index price is not a sum of the value of its components (which would imply an average share price of less than
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Nov 10, 2023 06:39
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Today a twitch streamer linked me to this hilarious story from 2021 which I'm sure I read at the time but had no memory of: The disastrous voyage of Satoshi, the world’s first cryptocurrency cruise ship
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Nov 10, 2023 08:57
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