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I don't have bandwidth to join the rewatch but I am enjoying this thread and also sometimes I just go back and rewatch episode 20 because it makes me bawl my eyes out
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Nov 6, 2023 15:00
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Poor Nanami. She sees someone get everything she thinks she wants and realizes it's an awful, terrible thing (also her brother is still The Worst). 33 is the most awful clip show ever, I have no further comments on it.
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Nov 6, 2023 15:03
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31-32 TL;DW: Nanami never wanted to gently caress Touga, she just wanted to be special to him. She's horrified by what she gave the impression of. There's a whole counterpart of this with Touga. It's only portrayed in the movie, but was his intended backstory trauma for the series. I suspect it was nixed for being too much, which says something considering what's still in the show.
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Nov 6, 2023 15:20
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Midjack posted:31-32: I was prepared to fast forward this one when I saw the preview. After 30 episodes the writers finally did something worthwhile with Nanami; too bad I ran out of patience with the character hours ago. Get hosed, rear end in a top hat. Or don't. Whichever makes you Touga got his exploitative, misogynistic world-view shattered by Utena and then met Akio who exists as an example that instead of reevaluating anything he should double down and that he just wasn't being enough of a dick. Akio is essentially a more evil, more successful adult version of what Touga aspires to be. Touga being a massive dick to Nanami for no reason and then trying to seduce her is him directly trying to be more like Akio but failing because Nanami never actually wanted to have sex with her brother, she was a child who didn't know what she was talking about. I've always felt that's likely part of why Anthy dislikes her so much. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 6, 2023 16:02
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more. Not sure why Touga is jerking her around with the whole "we're blood relatives, ha ha sike, no really we are" thing. "Just kidding" recurs through this one with a number of other characters too. Nanami seems most upset that Anthy is getting molested by her brother and she's not; seems like she's winning that comparison but what do I know.
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ok i finished watching. wow those are really effective episodes!! they make my skin crawl! 31 and 32 are another double episode. this is basically the climax of nanami's story, where it becomes clear why she's spent so much time in the spotlight. she's not normal, per se, but she's so much more normal than what's happening in the tower that her perspective is really important. moment by moment: the scene where she blows up at the trio in the classroom is badass lold irl when akio says he wants the tower to be a harem, and when the elevator reappeared by the end of 31 stuff is insanely real for nanami specifically. the coming of age we started to see in the egg episode has really come home. sex is real, and scary, and probably evil. most of all it is not a game. keikos betrayal ftw. the recurring "just kidding" gag hits home in the garden. (and later on when he drops that they are actually blood related). it's not really a joke by him, he's just playing with her heart. the ending scene is brutal. theyre hooking up yet again and talking about manipulating a girl for sex freak reasons at the same time. i want to sort of push back on the idea that akio is just a grown up touga; touga is a younger aspiring version of akio. intergenerational violence is an ongoing theme here and part of that is intergenerational passing down of a culture of violence. akio is ultimately to blame for much of what touga does. anyways yeah. nanamis a weird little freak but she is briefly the viewer's stand-in as she witnesses what is happening and goes what the gently caress. you sick freaks. i would never want that with my big brother. im gonna be normal now 33 is brutal. from the very opening where utena is just voguing and then turns around and she has the sex lipstick. the structure as a clip show is really effective! you're half paying attention to it, much like utena is only half paying attention to the abuse she is experiencing. the nonlinear framing where you're meant to not be sure quite what is happening also mirrors utena's experience. because she is being victimized by an experienced abuser, she is unsure what exactly is going on for most of it, and as the viewers we also had an interlude between the initial abuse of episode 30 and the intense abuse here. it creates a stunning feeling of domestic quiet horror. the bento scene specifically is absolutely incredible animation and voice work. she's dissociating and denying what is occurring, as the viewer is most likely at first denying what is occurring. then, over the course of the shot, it becomes undeniable. what a batch of episodes. hope you're all doing alright after seeing that.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:35
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one of the best recurring aspects of the work is how it shows psychological coping mechanisms. i think the starry-ceiling shots, the bento scene, and nanami's rapid-fire reliving of witnessing abuse stand out as some of the most effective abstract renderings of trauma in anime, period.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:37
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Ohtori Akio posted:33 is brutal. from the very opening where utena is just voguing and then turns around and she has the sex lipstick. the structure as a clip show is really effective! you're half paying attention to it, much like utena is only half paying attention to the abuse she is experiencing. Horror is a good word for it. I kind of experience this episode as something like watching somebody go to open a door you know they absolutely shouldn’t in a horror movie but as a viewer also not knowing what’s on the other side. It’s very good at building dread ending at that awful realization at the end, vs say the more jump scare like quality of the various bits and pieces we see of Anthy’s experience.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:45
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Sleng Teng posted:Horror is a good word for it. I kind of experience this episode as something like watching somebody go to open a door you know they absolutely shouldn’t in a horror movie but as a viewer also not knowing what’s on the other side. It’s very good at building dread ending at that awful realization at the end, vs say the more jump scare like quality of the various bits and pieces we see of Anthy’s experience. ikuhara could make a killer slasher
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Nov 7, 2023 00:51
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Ohtori Akio posted:the bento scene specifically is absolutely incredible animation and voice work. she's dissociating and denying what is occurring, as the viewer is most likely at first denying what is occurring. then, over the course of the shot, it becomes undeniable. Utena is also drawn in a much more feminine style in this scene than she has been in the series so far.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:57
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Midjack posted:Utena is also drawn in a much more feminine style in this scene than she has been in the series so far. a good theme for a rewatch would be to note how character art varies based on gaze and context. the gaze roses are a pretty important signal for whose eyes we're looking through imo, but also in this scene we are literally looking through akio's eyes. and what does he see? a sex object, growingly under his control
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Nov 7, 2023 00:59
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Watching episode 33 the first time is maybe the most physically ill I've ever felt while watching tv. It's incredibly well done and I hate to watch it. I'll probably make longer posts about these episodes later, but also I might not! We'll see how I'm feeling Also the Nanami stuff is incredible, best character, I love her so much. Her stuff is also nightmarish! Really good group of episodes to make me feel very bad.
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Nov 7, 2023 05:13
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Well let's go! Episode 31! Type through the pain! Interesting choice to start with the fairy tale intro into the title card reading "Her Tragedy." I think it helps bring the viewer's mind to some parallels between Utena and Nanami that are coming to the fore around now. It also means there's a minute of the episode less they need to worry about animating. The magic moving picture behind Nanami as she answers the phone, together with the way the camera keeps cutting closer to the phone makes this episode start off already feeling like an uneasy dream. The yellow flowers on the table further cement this as a Nanami episode if you couldn't already tell. Nanami is taking pride in her closeness to Touga, she's not like other girls. She says it's because they're joined by blood, but I think the playing pictures (who are laughing and it's very unsettling!) show that it has more to do with her having grown up with him. Touga answers calls from girls while going out with other ones. Kind of a caricature of a playboy here. Nanami is just standing still, watching. Nanami gets into some advice column discussing blood type personality charts and I am shocked that this magazine finds her family somewhat dysfunctional. Touga is a creep towards his sister and just sits in that silence for 10 whole seconds over a still frame, punctuated by a frog. Nanami is as red as she got that one time Utena held her forehead, but goes to her room to feel sad about her and Touga not being as close anymore. Every episode of this show is very strikingly directed and they just get more and moreso as the show goes on. Nanami goes into the bathroom to watch as he is definitely posing for her benefit. There's a little red rose spinning for even longer than the last held shot, this one reaching 18 whole seconds of stillness. Incredibly uncomfortable, thank you. She sneaks out with Touga's phone and he definitely knew she was there. How on earth does Touga have that many girls chasing him? He can't possibly be that hot. Nanami answers the phone, the shot holding for 12 seconds before she frowns. Another phone call, Nanami looks across the courtyard before telling this one she was dumped as well. It's a nice bit of levity when she yells at her posse for having designs on Touga, as well as the 3 glasses guys carrying busts up the stairs and getting pinned between Nanami and Utena as they argue. But even this isn't as fun as it would have been in episode 4, now that we see the things that make Nanami tick, and now that it ends with her being "rescued" by Akio doing some shoujo love interest bullshit. What a piece of poo poo. He even bandages her foot too. Utena's hand brushes his as she grabs the first aid kit and she blushes. Nanami glares at them and I have never related to a fictional character more. Anthy feeds Akio shaved ice as Utena looks on fondly and Nanami is skeptical. She can tell Utena is jealous as they chat at sunset in the ominous and symbolic sculpture garden. The statue they're talking in front of shifts from Castor and Pollux (sibling conversation -- famous siblings, not too hard) to Orpheus (Utena saying Nanami isn't normal and Nanami firing back with Utena's relationship with Akio -- I think this might be them reaching out to save each other from the grooming they're experiencing) to Hades raping Persephone (Utena and Akio, fairly obvious given episode 33 especially) to a chicken on a cat on a dog on a horse (Nanami suggesting they both do their best in pursuing their groomers -- ??? I got nothing. Maybe highlighting how absurd her declaration is?) Utena is also confused by that last one. Nanami knew everyone in the family's blood types but never put it together? I guess when you live in something it's hard to see outside it. I really like how her outburst is animated, the way she deflates at the end is super neat. As she runs off, the music playing is the music that plays in the leadup to duels, which is a good way of showing how much of a shock this is to Nanami. She manages to miss the lack of pictures of her as a baby as well, which is fun foreshadowing for next episode. I like the gag where the camera is alternating between spinning around Nanami's face and the ceiling light and then it turns out she's actually been spinning that whole time and is in a funny pose. "Why are you sitting in the dark?" asks Touga, as if he didn't spend an entire arc doing nothing but. Touga feeling her forehead is shot from a distance, and is given the spinning red rose of uncomfortableness. His joking request for a goodnight kiss gets the same, but neither holds for the 10 seconds required for me to actually count the time. It's nice to see that Nanami's friends are worried for her, and that they're willing to let her crash for a night or two. And when Utena might know anything Miki and Juri get super animated for a second before collecting themselves. It's sweet. Utena is clearly getting really in her own head about it though. Nanami, you cannot rely on this child for housing, this is not sustainable. The golfing is an extremely unsubtle way of showing just how easy it was to get him to agree, as well as giving Akio a way to once again show up like an rear end in a top hat as he forces her to stay with him. The camera breaks some fundamental cinematography rules as we see Utena doing a handstand during Nanami's introduction. Akio gives us what may be a brief moment of honesty when he says he wants to turn his home into a harem, with a purple rose and frog before the just kidding. Anthy and Utena are filming something as Utena displays some awareness of the situation and Anthy is honest with Utena. The fig leaf of "kidding!" is doing a lot of work in this episode. Utena is again trying to keep Kanae in her mind in what I can only interpret as her trying to find excuses to not be in a relationship with him but not really understanding what she's doing, and brings up her loyalty to Anthy before Anthy agrees she sounds like a mental case. An unusual setting for a shadow play, and Utena is once again taking part, just like in the black rose arc. It's I guess about Nanami and Touga being adopted, and Nanami expecting her fairy tale happy ending. Utena expresses some doubt before the monkey catching robot comes back to chase the duckling. Utena is the one to keep poking holes in Nanami's delusions, and Nanami isn't going to be able to work her poo poo out on her own terms and will instead be interrupted. Idk what the deal with the robot is, maybe I could put something together if I went back to the other episode it appeared in but probably not. I guess it's just Akio? If monkey is Chuchu is Anthy I can see it. Anthy intentionally loses at rock paper scissors so she'll be the one to sleep with Akio. This is an obvious act of self sacrifice that makes me feel a little sick. Touga and Nanami's confrontation in this episode is interesting, idk why Touga just decided to gently caress with her. Nanami talks about her love for Touga but believes that if they aren't related she means nothing to him. Utena is shocked, as she gets in the hosed up gay yearning bed with Nanami. They do not hold hands or otherwise observe the rituals we've gotten accustomed to. Utena does try and make Nanami feel better though, which is nice of her. Nanami should really recognize that she does in fact have some friends who aren't just using her to get close to Touga. Nanami leaves to use the bathroom and is faced with the aftermath of Akio once again raping Anthy. It's framed like she stumbled upon a victim in a slasher, and she goes to hide in an elevator as she flashes back to what she saw. It's an extremely powerful moment, as she is faced with what exactly she claimed to desire this whole time and is horrified by it. In the next time on Utena is indignant that Nanami would take Anthy's bed and Anthy responds that she slept in her brothers room. I know this is not the most important thing here, but she did not. Does Akio have a room of his own? He keeps loving Anthy on the couch, does he not have his own bed? Or is he just doing it there in the hopes that his guests will see it? I feel a little disgusted with myself for asking, but I'm curious. Anyways, Utena is still sympathetic to Nanami for being used by Touga and Anthy mentions something we've seen repeated throughout this show about how people can be easily tricked or used by those they love. Clearly speaking from experience. The title of 32 seems related to the shadow play from 30, with the girl holding onto the dancing shoes but never wearing them. I need to go take a shower
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Nov 7, 2023 09:53
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that's a hell of a lot more insightful than me. every shot's got something extra to pay attention to it feels like
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Nov 7, 2023 10:27
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chrome line posted:to a chicken on a cat on a dog on a horse That is the statue of the Town Musicians of Bremen. Definitely of a different pedigree than the others.
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Nov 7, 2023 13:38
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Ohtori Akio posted:that's a hell of a lot more insightful than me. every shot's got something extra to pay attention to it feels like Yeah, I want to avoid just writing down the things that happen with no commentary in favor of actual analysis as much as possible, whether that's actual analysis of symbols or repeated themes and motifs, or just me talking about my feelings about the events on screen. Sometimes I feel like my commentary is a little bare bones but that's fine Maera Sior posted:That is the statue of the Town Musicians of Bremen. Definitely of a different pedigree than the others. Huh. So it is. I'm still unsure what exactly the deal is there, but my best guess is it's about Utena and Nanami as outcasts who will find a home together later that episode, if only temporarily. In Akio's penthouse, so not nearly as nice as the Town Musicians getting a house with no sexual abusers in it for free.
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Nov 7, 2023 17:52
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chrome line posted:Yeah, I want to avoid just writing down the things that happen with no commentary in favor of actual analysis as much as possible, whether that's actual analysis of symbols or repeated themes and motifs, or just me talking about my feelings about the events on screen. Sometimes I feel like my commentary is a little bare bones but that's fine I got Nanami's animal motif + her worries about being discarded.
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Nov 7, 2023 18:00
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Ohtori Akio posted:what a batch of episodes. hope you're all doing alright after seeing that. I want to kill Ohtori Akio. i'll post some pictures and stuff later when i feel less awful
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Nov 8, 2023 02:32
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Sleng Teng posted:Horror is a good word for it. I kind of experience this episode as something like watching somebody go to open a door you know they absolutely shouldn’t in a horror movie but as a viewer also not knowing what’s on the other side. It’s very good at building dread ending at that awful realization at the end, vs say the more jump scare like quality of the various bits and pieces we see of Anthy’s experience. the thing that absolutely creeped the poo poo out of me is how the viewer gets slightly closer to utena every scene up until the climax. it's horrifying.
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Nov 8, 2023 02:32
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Big Leg posted:the thing that absolutely creeped the poo poo out of me is how the viewer gets slightly closer to utena every scene up until the climax. it's horrifying. what if a monster movie through the eyes of the monster
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Nov 8, 2023 02:48
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i like the awkward pauses in the first half of this nanami arc. in every other nanami episode she's at the forefront of everything, and i think the pauses really highlight how she's been forced into a strangely passive role this time around. the second episode kind of replaces those static pauses with shots of nanami balled up and helpless, which i think is an interesting adaptation after what she witnesses at the end of 31 (apologies nanami, even though you are my favorite this shot of anthy menacing you with an ice saw is an all timer) 
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Nov 8, 2023 03:53
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last week i said something about the show starting to use things we associate with the lighter moments of utena to create dread and horror. this week the show steals the framing of the yuri bed scenes for absolute terror 
Big Leg fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Nov 8, 2023 |
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Nov 8, 2023 04:10
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Big Leg posted:last week i said something about the show starting to use things we associate with the lighter moments of utena moments to create dread and horror. this week the show steals the framing of the yuri bed scenes for absolute terror I... hadn't noticed that. That's horrifying.
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Nov 8, 2023 04:26
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Ohtori Akio posted:by the end of 31 stuff is insanely real for nanami specifically. the coming of age we started to see in the egg episode has really come home. sex is real, and scary, and probably evil. most of all it is not a game. i didn't expect this while i was watching, but i felt weirdly hopeful for nanami at the end of her episodes. she's broken and in pain, but it feels like she's capable of moving past this lovely relationship that's defined so much of her life. i guess pretty much all of the student council episodes this arc have had a similar resolution, i just didn't realize it until now. thank you for joining the swarm, nanami.
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Nov 8, 2023 04:27
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Ohtori Akio posted:33 is brutal. from the very opening where utena is just voguing and then turns around and she has the sex lipstick. the structure as a clip show is really effective! you're half paying attention to it, much like utena is only half paying attention to the abuse she is experiencing. nothing to add but i really like this interpretation of episode 33's placement and structure. and the animation when utena stops talking during the bento scene is incredible.
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Nov 8, 2023 04:37
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Midjack posted:31-32: I was prepared to fast forward this one when I saw the preview. After 30 episodes the writers finally did something worthwhile with Nanami; too bad I ran out of patience with the character hours ago. Get hosed, rear end in a top hat. Or don't. Whichever makes you frick you 
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Nov 8, 2023 04:39
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Big Leg posted:frick you There are other ways the writers could have taken the character where I would have liked her! I appreciated what they did with her here; she was the one person who went into the cock tower and pointed out to everyone else how messed up the whole situation is there. I think she even could have been a good audience viewpoint character for more than just these couple of episodes if they'd written her to be a less awful person and she was around like Tsuwabaki seems to be. Or they coudl keep her as terrible a person as she currently is but not shove her in my face every three episodes like she's a crappy fast food hamburger you're trying to convince me to buy. As it is, it feels like they ran her into the ground like a mid-90s Saturday Night Live character because "loud + repetitve = automatically funny" was the formula of the era.
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Nov 8, 2023 05:29
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Big Leg posted:message to all the nanami haters out there
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Nov 8, 2023 06:47
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Big Leg posted:last week i said something about the show starting to use things we associate with the lighter moments of utena to create dread and horror. this week the show steals the framing of the yuri bed scenes for absolute terror you're so right. ouch. compare the empty hands in these shots to the yuri bed scenes
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Nov 8, 2023 07:45
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i think the underlying issue with the "nanami sucks" read is that she is a middle school girl who has been subject to a childhood that reliably creates hosed up people. it is super believable that she does bad things. her arc is one of growing into a decent human being ready to tackle the real world.
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Nov 8, 2023 07:50
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Okay fine but that's information from the future.
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Nov 8, 2023 08:26
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we were just talking about how shes grown into a decent human being ready to face the real world!! ! !!!
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Nov 8, 2023 08:28
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nanami's just a kid, to say she's a bad person for the dumb poo poo she does in her weird strange circumstances seems off even at this point. how else was she going to react to any of this? she's not an individualist gender-non-conforming superhero like utena (who is also currently not doing so well, though she doesn't seem to realize it) like the best thing we can hope for utena is to realize that these end of the world dickheads are evil and that their revolution is fake and based on abusing and manipulating her and people like her and that she needs to get the hell out just like nanami is realizing
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Nov 8, 2023 08:36
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Nanami is great. Give her another cat, I think she can be trusted this time.
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Nov 8, 2023 09:52
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chrome line posted:Nanami is great. Give her another cat, I think she can be trusted this time. yup, it's time
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Nov 8, 2023 17:02
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Ohtori Akio posted:we were just talking about how shes grown into a decent human being ready to face the real world!! ! !!! I went back and rewatched 31 and 32. Keep in mind that I've never seen this before and am not watching ahead or looking for information about episodes I haven't seen yet; I only have information from episodes 1-33 of the show. At the end of 32 Nanami's status is "I can't build my identity solely around being Touga's little sister anymore, what am I supposed to do now" and that development was largely backloaded in 32. Immediately prior to the duel in 32 she slaps the poo poo out of the girl squad when they tell her they're tired of being bossed around, slaps the poo poo out of Anthy (to be fair everyone but Utena does that), and takes Chuchu hostage, all of which are in line with her character from the prior 31 episodes. There's no character arc here, it's more like a character Dirac delta function. If her story continues beyond episode 33 then I'm open to revising that evaluation as new information arrives, but as of the end of 32 she isn't a "decent human being," she's just a person with an opportunity to change but that hasn't been shown yet.
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Nov 9, 2023 00:51
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Episode 32! Gonna be taking some breaks during this one I think. Definitely doing that for 33. This one starts off with Nanami looking out at the city on the waterfront. I feel like this is the first time we've seen this view, or even that this school is near the water, but idk if that's right. If it is then that would symbolize the ways Nanami is seeing the reality of the world around her in a much more material and concrete way than before. Actually that read works regardless, but it's much more striking if it's the first time. Nanami is still listening to messages from Touga's girls. In the living room Utena is stretching with her eyes closed. She stretches a lot when stressed (as showcased next episode) and remains unaware of the things going on in this house. She gives a casual greeting to Anthy, but shakes herself awake and stutters a much more polite greeting to Akio. This sucks. Nanami flashes back to what she saw last night as Utena, Anthy, and Akio make small talk. She glares at them as the title card comes in. Utena gives Akio the credit for cooking while making fun of Anthy for being the one to grow the ingredients sucks. It is a little funny when Anthy takes Utena saying "not much family resemblance there!" as a compliment while salting Akio's egg. Is that just the only kind of thing she can do to show any rebellion? Nanami looks on at the cheerful conversation, furiously stirring her tea. She looks shocked when Anthy acts polite to her, asking her if she wants any, before slapping it away. Utena (reasonably) is upset by this but Nanami just screams about how she can't believe Utena is so blind before storming off. If Nanami was just open about things here (or maybe a little later, I get not wanting to talk about it in front of them) that'd save us some drama later. I hate Akio so much, coming in and acting like he doesn't know what Nanami's talking about but that he's sooooo sympathetic and we just need to give her space to deal with her brother. gently caress him. Anthy looks on at Akio and Utena as Chuchu digs himself out of the jam, which was apparently very tasty. Nanami goes to complain about her living situation to Miki who perhaps does not grasp how serious she is in her complaining this time. Again, it would help if she just said what was bothering her, but I do understand not wanting to for fear of being misunderstood or taken even less seriously. I'm not an expert in written music but Miki's sheet does seem to be blank. Miki is very excited when Nanami offers to switch housing, but she's unwilling to put him in the situation she's only just realized is very bad. She's grown a lot! Nanami looking on and hiding as Touga makes out with Keiko is very sad. Touga notices her and continues to gently caress with her by lying to Keiko about how they aren't actually related. He clearly knows her very well and is just smashing her worst insecurities with a hammer. There's a cut to Anthy asking the spigot "What's wrong?" as she fills her watering can before going back to Nanami slapping Keiko. Touga continues to do his best to make Nanami feel as bad as possible, and Keiko slaps her back. Nanami is having a very bad time and I am very sympathetic to her, but Keiko is right that Nanami is still being very possessive and doesn't actually have the right to decide who Touga fucks. Keiko also hits Nanami in all her worst insecurities just for fun. They just walk out as Nanami begs them to reveal they were lying to her. Anthy's watering can is overflowing because the spigot broke, representing the way all of Nanami's inner struggles are now flowing out in ways they never have before. Anthy and Akio are force feeding Kanae apple slices in an incredibly uncomfortable scene. The apple has forks sticking out all over it. Again, there's a lot of genuine horror in these episodes, this is so creepy and evocative. I don't think we'll be seeing Kanae again. Utena wonders when Kanae will leave so they can eat, as she continues to stretch every chance she gets. I don't think she realizes how stressed this house is making her. Unclear how Anthy is here when we clearly saw her hand feeding Kanae the apple, but she offers to make dinner. I think it's a great bit that the only thing she can cook is shaved ice, and she has to use a handsaw to shave the ice. Anthy telling Utena not to go into the room with Kanae and Akio is the most concerned she's been in a while. Either Akio is sexually assaulting Kanae or is disposing of the body. The shot of Anthy with the saw in front of Nanami as she (I think) is telling Nanami that she knows what Nanami saw is really good. Very threatening. Nanami takes it that way at least, and Anthy is glad to hear it. Kind of an early eyecatch! Nanami is so good in this arc, her comment to Utena about the hosed up gay yearning bed rules. Utena is in fact very dense, so maybe you should tell her straight up what your talking about? It clearly affects her. I understand the impulse to instead be catty and victim blame, but I don't think Anthy looked particularly into what was happening there. The fact that Utena is still like "I'd love a sibling!" after all this is very sad, but the fact that she thinks "one always knows what the other is feeling" is absurd. Has that ever been true for any sibling pair in this show? Even Anthy and Akio don't really present like that. Utena is really bad at reading people, but she is right that being adopted shouldn't matter too much. Of course, it's definitely for the best if Nanami leaves Touga asap in this case. Nanami's phone call transitioning into Akio is really good. Nanami requesting the transfer to a different school may be the most emotionally mature thing anyone in this show has done. It didn't work, but I'm really proud of her. She handled it as best she could, but it turns out it's not that easy to leave by yourself. It does make me laugh a little seeing the car crash through the big glass window to pick them up. Did Juri or Miki recognize Akio when he was driving them? Nanami being the first person to truly reckon with how awful the heart of this show is is a good character beat. Touga sexually assaults Nanami here, and I want to move on quickly. I do think this is important because I think it might be why Touga started lying about the sibling thing, he wanted to try and make Nanami more open to sexual manipulation but it backfired. If she hadn't seen Akio and Anthy would it have worked? I think it is very funny how Keiko gives a little speech about how they won't listen to Nanami anymore, there's no reason to, they never respected her, and then Nanami just slaps the poo poo out of them and they go back to that. Less funny is her slapping Anthy. She feels the need to separate Anthy (who she views as a willing participant in her abuse) from herself. This is a victim blaming slap, and I don't support it. She hits Anthy because she can't hit Touga or Akio. Also I think this is the duel that's hurt Utena the most this arc so far. It's clear Utena views them as friends, and though she felt similarly about Juri and Miki, neither of them were so harsh in their challenges and it was clear that Juri at least was under duress. Utena doesn't know about the car in the way that they do. Juri or Miki should have probably warned her, huh? Feels like an oversight on their parts, they were warning each other about the black rose duelists Is the doubter meant to be Nanami? She certainly has the attitude, and Nanami did get forced into conformity this episode, but I don't know if it really fits. It could also be more broadly about people (Utena and Nanami primarily) not recognizing the obvious abuse in their lives even as it first affects the world around them, then affects them, then harms them. Nanami does indeed have lipstick on while posing on the car, as do Utena and Anthy. Clearly it doesn't just represent having had sex, unless Utena got busy offscreen before episode 33. Nanami just isn't talking at the start here, which makes it obvious that, just as much as was the case for Juri and despite what she says later, she doesn't really want to do this. Touga claims she's here of her own free will, which I guess isn't entirely untrue. Nanami is just looking for the power to become free of the abuse she now recognizes everywhere around her, and thinks beating Utena will give her that power. She's clearly desperate for that freedom, the way she's animated here. I don't normally comment on the duel songs, but this one is about orbital mechanics and is pretty clearly related to how Nanami spent her whole life orbiting around Touga and now wants to break free but doesn't know how. Utena still doesn't realize what's going on and is going "you know adoption is no less valid than blood relation, right?" while Nanami has realized that even if they were blood related it wasn't a healthy relationship to begin with and she should go. Despite everything Utena still hopes Nanami is feeling better. She acts like this is just some outburst Nanami needed to get out of her system, but that's because Utena's stupid, not because she doesn't care. Nanami is still wracked with fear about not being special, which is sad. You're still a main character, don't worry about it! You aren't Wakaba! Anyways Touga and Akio hosed. I saw someone claim there was no onscreen queerness in this show, and though there are other more blatant examples (Juri?????) this sticks out to me. Why was Akio lounging in bed with Touga, shirts open and pants unbuttoned if they weren't loving??? Also the topic of conversation is gross. They both suck, and I do take that as confirmation that Touga did all that lying because he thought it would make Nanami more amenable to things. This next time on is Anthy asking the favor that sets the next episode in motion. That's neat! I already feel sick and I haven't even gotten there yet.
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Nov 9, 2023 03:11
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yet another excellent post from chrome line
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Nov 9, 2023 03:19
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I haven’t been joining in because I rewatched the show about four months ago, just enough time for me to be at risk of getting events muddled - but chrome line, your summaries are amazing. This is more than I ever noticed, and I noticed so much more this watch around than when I watched in fifteen years ago. You’re putting into words what I was only seeing the edges o. Thank you!
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Nov 9, 2023 10:20
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I’m still catching up, wanted to note how much I loved the scene where Mikage is giving a villain monologue until Utena loses her poo poo and tries to kill him, it really shows how .. different that things are being handled from what Mikage expected But I see we’ve moved on from the creepy episodes to the full on horror episodes. I will post more when I’ve finished catching up
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Nov 10, 2023 05:28
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I am so, so enamored of the stuff being posted here! I wouldn't normally chime in, because I am an untreatable lurker, but I wanted to add something that y'all might not know-- the duel songs were not written for Utena, but they were also not slapped on after the fact. Apparently what the Be-Papas did was listen to the songs while writing and use certain songs to inspire certain characters. Basically vibes-based. The duel songs aren't going to have a 1:1 correlation with the characters, but there is a definite connection. I'm so happy people are still watching this series! And if anyone wants to write more about how Miki represents West Germany or whatever, I am all loving ears.
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Nov 10, 2023 07:48
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