NFC South 2023: In Search of a Winning Record

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Nervous: Jan 25, 2005; Why, hello, my little slice of pecan pie.

BlindSite posted:

If Young had the Bears' receiver room we win this game by 20. We had a receiver actually open once and he threw a 44 yarder. The receivers and the scheme is loving dogshit.

Just everything about the trade and every other decision has been absolute dog poo poo. Kudos to Carolina I guess.

# ? Nov 10, 2023 12:32

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# ? May 24, 2024 23:11

Chris James 2: Aug 9, 2012

zimbomonkey posted:

This makes more sense if we weren't being told all summer that actually Bryce is way ahead of where rookies usually are.

It's been more than two full months of play now, I feel confident getting it off my chest after seeing him duck it either into the stands, into dirt, or way over his receivers against the second-worst team in the league that he very much isn't way ahead of anyone talent-wise. Won't say he can't be fixed or is broken, but yeah, in terms of "he's the immediate star of the group" I've seen enough there to know that's a lie

# ? Nov 10, 2023 13:29

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

Team is still constantly trotting out the �no THIS qb is special THIS qb is built for the moment.�

We�ve all seen what he is, and it�s getting worse every week.

# ? Nov 10, 2023 13:32

RumbleFish: Dec 20, 2007

Certainly Bryce should wear some of the blame for our dysfunction, but I just don't know how you look at this dogshit offensive scheme, dogshit receivers, dogshit running game, and dogshit offensive line and land on "The problem here is Bryce Young." Dalton had a solid performance at Seattle, yes, but the Seahawks were also missing most of their secondary and he's also, y'know, not a rookie. I truly don't see how any QB could find sustained success with the Panthers at present.

# ? Nov 10, 2023 14:30

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

RumbleFish posted:

Certainly Bryce should wear some of the blame for our dysfunction, but I just don't know how you look at this dogshit offensive scheme, dogshit receivers, dogshit running game, and dogshit offensive line and land on "The problem here is Bryce Young." Dalton had a solid performance at Seattle, yes, but the Seahawks were also missing most of their secondary and he's also, y'know, not a rookie. I truly don't see how any QB could find sustained success with the Panthers at present.

The Panthers aren't playing the Ravens every week. They've played played a lot of cupcakes. Bryce's (and the offense's) two worst games have come in the last two weeks against two struggling defenses. Bryce might not be the only problem, but he's certainly not making anything better. The things bryce can control, like technique or reading defenses or checking down, he's also not doing. And these are the things he was supposed to be good at; good enough that they overcame his physical deficits.

Bryce looks completely shell shocked. I don't think the offensive line played terribly last night compared to previous games. Bryce had multiple opportunities to step up in the pocket, but he's really getting used to sprinting right. His receivers are slow, but there's still multiple defenders around them when he forces it there. He routinely misses check downs and throws hospital balls. Every game like this makes him turning it around less likely.

And this is saying nothing about his ability to actually survive the league, let alone play it. He looks smaller out there than Armanti Edwards.

It doesn't matter how good of a team you put around him - he will get hit. I guess before the draft you can argue we didn't realize HOW small he was compared to everyone else but there's no denying it now. And when he gets hit it looks awful. Not like Matt Ryan's Gumby impression but what I always imagined it would look like if someone smaller than me was playing NFL.

There's not much difference in nfl production between Young and Clausen at this point. The main difference is the Panthers successfully traded a future first for Bryce, and fans didn't have to lie to themselves because they weren't in line to draft Cam or Luck the next season. Bryce ain't it.

# ? Nov 10, 2023 15:07

Chris James 2: Aug 9, 2012

RumbleFish posted:

Certainly Bryce should wear some of the blame for our dysfunction

It's this. Maybe there's some posts I haven't seen here so I won't say nobody thinks he's the only or biggest problem, but he is a problem, it was one that couldn't be patched over last night to the point of ignoring it, and if they didn't think so too given his performance they don't have the kicker try the record distance at the end (which I still thought had a better chance of being good than a Bryce throw given what he'd been doing and missing wide all day, 1% chance vs no chance)

Definitely not the only one, or the biggest one, or the immediately-fixable one (Reich and Fitterer gone between now and Black Friday please. Frankly if you believe Bryce can be fixed this is the only option you should be rooting for, after a full year under these clowns it might be too late. Trevor needed time to recover from half a year of Urban, and Bryce already looks more shellshocked post-bye and on the way to the actual hard part of the schedule)

# ? Nov 10, 2023 15:22

sexy tiger boobs: Aug 23, 2002; Up shit creek with a turd for a paddle.

FizFashizzle posted:

The Panthers aren't playing the Ravens every week. They've played played a lot of cupcakes. Bryce's (and the offense's) two worst games have come in the last two weeks against two struggling defenses. Bryce might not be the only problem, but he's certainly not making anything better. The things bryce can control, like technique or reading defenses or checking down, he's also not doing. And these are the things he was supposed to be good at; good enough that they overcame his physical deficits.

Bryce looks completely shell shocked. I don't think the offensive line played terribly last night compared to previous games. Bryce had multiple opportunities to step up in the pocket, but he's really getting used to sprinting right. His receivers are slow, but there's still multiple defenders around them when he forces it there. He routinely misses check downs and throws hospital balls. Every game like this makes him turning it around less likely.

And this is saying nothing about his ability to actually survive the league, let alone play it. He looks smaller out there than Armanti Edwards.

It doesn't matter how good of a team you put around him - he will get hit. I guess before the draft you can argue we didn't realize HOW small he was compared to everyone else but there's no denying it now. And when he gets hit it looks awful. Not like Matt Ryan's Gumby impression but what I always imagined it would look like if someone smaller than me was playing NFL.

There's not much difference in nfl production between Young and Clausen at this point. The main difference is the Panthers successfully traded a future first for Bryce, and fans didn't have to lie to themselves because they weren't in line to draft Cam or Luck the next season. Bryce ain't it.

Hey that was Drew Brees' gumby impression!

# ? Nov 10, 2023 15:48

Shinji2015: Aug 31, 2007; Keen on the hygiene and on the mission like a super technician.

https://www.nfl.com/news/wr-adam-thielen-panthers-offense-not-hitting-on-any-cylinders

Kevin Patra posted:

WR Adam Thielen: Panthers' offense 'not hitting on any cylinders'

The Carolina Panthers offense is a broken-down jalopy that can't be trusted to make it more than 2.6 miles before stalling.

Thursday night's output in the 16-13 loss to the Chicago Bears was dismal. Bryce Young and the offense put up 213 yards and 12 first downs on nine drives. The Panthers offense barely sniffed the red zone, reaching it once and never getting further than Chicago's 15-yard line.

"We're just not hitting on all cylinders right now. We're not hitting on any cylinders," receiver Adam Thielen said, via the team�s official website. "It's an embarrassing effort. I think everyone's just embarrassed, you know, put up what, six points on offense.

"Like, we didn't do anything. That's embarrassing when your defense is playing the way they're playing, especially the way they're playing. It's embarrassing. And like we talked about, we're putting in good practices. We're doing the right things; building the momentum that way, but it's just not translating. That's tough."

Thursday night's translation turned out to be gobbledygook. The Panthers went three-and-out three times, netting -15 yards on those drives. Their punt-return team led to more points (7) than the offense (6). And even on drives where they held the ball, they moved like that clunker, puttering by the yard.

On their final two drives, the Panthers ate up 10:17 off the clock to move a combined 70 net yards, earn four total first downs and make one field goal. The final drive ended on an ill-fated Eddy Pineiro 59-yard missed field goal attempt.

The saying is football is a game of inches. Right now, the Panthers' offense is taking that phrase a bit too literally, worming its way for every inch of grass instead of taking it by the chunk.

The bulk of the blame will be placed on the rookie quarterback Young, who hasn't lifted the offense in ways we've seen other young signal-callers.

"First and foremost, I have to be a lot better. We have to be better. It's frustrating, it's very frustrating," Young began. "And that's not me, that's not just me, that's everyone. We're competitors, and losing is frustrating. It's fresh, you feel it, but at the end of the day, you've got to turn the page. Being frustrated, however you feel, it's not going to win you a game, it's not going to help.

"You have to turn that and use that in action throughout the week, and then we have to translate it to Sunday or Thursday tonight, whatever. We have to translate it."

Young certainly has had his struggles and isn't playing well. The situation he's put in -- with a porous offensive line and receivers who can't separate from defensive backs -- would make any quarterback look bad.

Multiple things can be true: The No. 1 overall pick isn't playing like a game-changing talent, AND the offensive situation, from the play-calling to the support system, is broken.

With the Panthers stacking troubling losses as the offense can't move the ball and the young quarterback makes rookie mistakes, the risk for Carolina is that the player they mortgaged their future to draft could be crushed by circumstance.

"No, I'm not worried about Bryce's confidence," coach Frank Reich rebutted. "I think he's mentally tougher than a lot of rookie quarterbacks. I mean, for a rookie quarterback, considering the start we've had, I don't think I see any retreat in him. I don't. I see aggressiveness. I see resolve. I see determination, and I feel like he's taking ownership of it and he's taking probably more ownership of it than he should.

"Because it's a group effort, but the quarterback and head coach are always going to be at the center. That's just the way it is. And so it's just a credit to him for taking responsibility for the whole offense. When, in fact, it's not just him.

"Can he be better? Sure. Can I be better? Absolutely. Can we all be better on offense, 100 percent, for sure."

The Panthers put up 185 passing yards against a Bears defense that entered the game allowing an NFL-worst +0.12 average pass EPA. It was supposed to be a get-right game for Reich's offense. Instead, it cratered.

"I'm not worried about Bryce's confidence because I know that it's already been ruined"

# ? Nov 10, 2023 15:51

Silly Burrito: Nov 27, 2007; SET A COURSE FOR
THE FLAVOR QUADRANT

Drew Brees was short too (for a QB), and he didn�t become DREW BREES until he left his original team and found a coach that worked with him and had a system to make him comfortable.

Panthers probably do need an overhaul but Young still has time to get better. But in retrospect, they really should�ve taken CJ Stroud. :shrug:

# ? Nov 10, 2023 15:55

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

BlindSite posted:

If Young had the Bears' receiver room we win this game by 20. We had a receiver actually open once and he threw a 44 yarder. The receivers and the scheme is loving dogshit.

That was cool, and was definitely one of the "flashes of brilliance" that people talk about with Bryce, but I also watched him airmail a bunch of short screen passes way off target. The problem is consistency, I've seen so many QBs who have flashes of brilliance but can't complete basic passes half the time (*cough* Josh Freeman *cough*) and they never work out long term.

Now could his consistency be improved by being in a better system? Almost definitely, but we'll see if that actually happens.

# ? Nov 10, 2023 16:42

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

Silly Burrito posted:

Drew Brees was short too (for a QB), and he didn�t become DREW BREES until he left his original team and found a coach that worked with him and had a system to make him comfortable.

Panthers probably do need an overhaul but Young still has time to get better. But in retrospect, they really should�ve taken CJ Stroud.

Drew Brees first season as a starter in San Diego is looking like Bryce�s ceiling.

5.4 YPA in tyool 2023 shoot me

# ? Nov 10, 2023 16:55

RumbleFish: Dec 20, 2007

Can't remember where I saw this (otherwise I'd link it), but Trevor Lawrence's stats through his first 10 games are almost identical to Bryce. The question is whether Tepper has the will to pull the plug and attempt to rescue the guy like the Jags did. And on that note, it's kind of insane how impatient Tepper has been with CLTFC relative to how much he's just let the Panthers spiral. Keep that same energy man, what the gently caress.

# ? Nov 10, 2023 18:51

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

RumbleFish posted:

Can't remember where I saw this (otherwise I'd link it), but Trevor Lawrence's stats through his first 10 games are almost identical to Bryce. The question is whether Tepper has the will to pull the plug and rescue the guy like the Jags did. And on that note, it's kind of insane how impatient Tepper been with CLTFC relative to how much he's just let the Panthers spiral. Keep that same energy man, what the gently caress.

The growth spurt he had in his early twenties was weird.

# ? Nov 10, 2023 18:52

Shinji2015: Aug 31, 2007; Keen on the hygiene and on the mission like a super technician.

RumbleFish posted:

Can't remember where I saw this (otherwise I'd link it), but Trevor Lawrence's stats through his first 10 games are almost identical to Bryce. The question is whether Tepper has the will to pull the plug and attempt to rescue the guy like the Jags did. And on that note, it's kind of insane how impatient Tepper has been with CLTFC relative to how much he's just let the Panthers spiral. Keep that same energy man, what the gently caress.

Legit question, is Tepper more of a soccer person than football? He owns a NFL team because that's what wealthy assholes looking for status do in this country, but the soccer team might be what he really gives a poo poo about

# ? Nov 10, 2023 19:29

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

Shinji2015 posted:

Legit question, is Tepper more of a soccer person than football? He owns a NFL team because that's what wealthy assholes looking for status do in this country, but the soccer team might be what he really gives a poo poo about

he can ruin two things at once.

# ? Nov 10, 2023 19:35

zimbomonkey: Jul 15, 2008; Tattoos? On MY black quarterback?

Hell, he wants to ruin a baseball team too if the rumors are true

# ? Nov 10, 2023 20:13

Relentlessboredomm: Oct 15, 2006; It's Sic Semper Tyrannis. You said, "Ever faithful terrible lizard."

zimbomonkey posted:

Hell, he wants to ruin a baseball team too if the rumors are true

thats the thing about the hedge fund / private equity dudes, they're never satisfied until they've ruined everything. loving vampires

# ? Nov 10, 2023 21:18

Silly Burrito: Nov 27, 2007; SET A COURSE FOR
THE FLAVOR QUADRANT

https://twitter.com/Cantguardmike/status/1723345146912158183

https://www.wdsu.com/article/man-sp...thomas/45809449

Mike Thomas� response above.

# ? Nov 11, 2023 15:50

Ostentatious: Sep 29, 2010

The Derek Carr All-Arrest WR corps is all time good

WR1: AB
WR2: Slant Boy
WR3: Olave
WR4: Henry Ruggs

# ? Nov 11, 2023 15:55

Pontius Pilate: Jul 25, 2006; Crucify, Whale, Crucify

I�ll never get tired of slant boy as a nickname

# ? Nov 11, 2023 16:46

Silly Burrito: Nov 27, 2007; SET A COURSE FOR
THE FLAVOR QUADRANT

https://twitter.com/TraversWDSU/status/1723378968462569730

# ? Nov 11, 2023 17:49

PostNouveau: Sep 3, 2011; VY till I die; Grimey Drawer

Silly Burrito posted:

https://twitter.com/Cantguardmike/status/1723345146912158183

https://www.wdsu.com/article/man-sp...thomas/45809449

Mike Thomas� response above.

The worst crime here is that Mike lives in Kenner :chloe:

# ? Nov 11, 2023 17:54

PostNouveau: Sep 3, 2011; VY till I die; Grimey Drawer

Guys, stop me if you've heard this one before, but the Saints are bad at football

# ? Nov 12, 2023 20:13

CannonFodder: Jan 26, 2001; Passion’s Wrench

FizFashizzle posted:

Money is on fitterer.

I can�t imagine reich is fired mid season. Offense looks just as bad with Jones calling the plays, probably because he and reich came up with the playbook together.

gently caress it, bring in Paul Johnson and run the flexbone. Who cares at this point?

*suddenly remembers the few times Rivera tried to run an option play with Cam Newton*

Oh yeah, never mind.

# ? Nov 12, 2023 20:27

really queer Christmas: Apr 22, 2014

leave allen and pete in minnesota. good LORD

# ? Nov 12, 2023 20:33

Relentlessboredomm: Oct 15, 2006; It's Sic Semper Tyrannis. You said, "Ever faithful terrible lizard."

Lmao Saints, maybe they pull it out in the second half but this is such an awful look

# ? Nov 12, 2023 20:33

kidcoelacanth: Sep 23, 2009

move wirfs to RB imo

# ? Nov 12, 2023 20:34

really queer Christmas: Apr 22, 2014

Relentlessboredomm posted:

Lmao Saints, maybe they pull it out in the second half but this is such an awful look

I hope it gets much worse. We need some blowouts to get allen out.

# ? Nov 12, 2023 20:34

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

Relentlessboredomm posted:

Lmao Saints, maybe they pull it out in the second half but this is such an awful look

that would require Dennis Allen to not be a bitch rear end coward. They're gonna get epically stomped.

# ? Nov 12, 2023 20:34

YOLOsubmarine: Oct 19, 2004; When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."

Saints fire Allen and hire Slowik or Johnson pls. Let�s move on from this 10 years past it�s expiration date WCO poo poo that only works when you�ve got Sean Payton calling plays for Drew Brees.

# ? Nov 12, 2023 21:00

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

YOLOsubmarine posted:

Saints fire Allen and hire Slowik or Johnson pls. Let�s move on from this 10 years past it�s expiration date WCO poo poo that only works when you�ve got Sean Payton calling plays for Drew Brees.

Bonus points if it's Chef Slowik from The Menu.

# ? Nov 12, 2023 21:14

kidcoelacanth: Sep 23, 2009

titans aren't very good but man a win feels good after this last month

# ? Nov 12, 2023 21:57

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

kidcoelacanth posted:

titans aren't very good but man a win feels good after this last month

Amen

# ? Nov 12, 2023 21:57

PostNouveau: Sep 3, 2011; VY till I die; Grimey Drawer

I stopped watching for awhile. Why the gently caress is Jameis Winston on my TV?

# ? Nov 12, 2023 22:07

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

PostNouveau posted:

I stopped watching for awhile. Why the gently caress is Jameis Winston on my TV?

Carr broke down, got towed back to the dealership.

# ? Nov 12, 2023 22:09

Shinji2015: Aug 31, 2007; Keen on the hygiene and on the mission like a super technician.

Edit: wrong thread, lol

# ? Nov 12, 2023 22:09

YOLOsubmarine: Oct 19, 2004; When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."

Vintage Jameis

# ? Nov 12, 2023 22:19