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vyelkin posted:I watched a few matches of the Rugby World Cup and they seemed to do pretty well with their version of VAR. One of the big differences was that the game clock is stopped while they're doing a VAR check so the refs wouldn't feel under time pressure to make a rushed decision. I don't think that's a useful comparison to football, but the other big difference was that the television audience could see and hear the ref and the VAR talking to one another, so you could understand their full decision-making process and know you were seeing exactly what they were seeing. That might help make the VAR process a little less mystifying, and also force the refs to act professionally because they know they're being broadcast live to millions of people. Don’t let the rugby thread hear that, so many of the complaints are the quality and speed of the TMO (VAR) in the tournament. But that’s more rules interpretation and usage of the review, which is about application, and not the bones of it, which are generally good. The chat between booth and field ref is the best of any sport I know of, and you’re right - broadcasting it would put an onus on everyone to behave well, which might solve more problems right away. Otherwise you’ve got what I’d suggest - semi-auto offside and improve how the current system is used.
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Nov 11, 2023 12:16
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The rugby thing where a team of people spend ten minutes analysing a move in slow motion before upgrading a card to a sending off would be awful for football
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Nov 11, 2023 13:45
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Thanks Ants posted:The rugby thing where a team of people spend ten minutes analysing a move in slow motion before upgrading a card to a sending off would be awful for football That would be dumb but I do think being able to listen in on the ref and VAR talking to each other would be better than ten minutes of listening to commentators saying "why are they showing this angle? What are they even looking for??"
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Nov 11, 2023 13:47
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VAR loving sucks and the people who advocate for it are boring jobworths no one likes to hang out with
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Nov 11, 2023 14:33
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Succinct.
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Nov 11, 2023 14:42
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var ftw
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Nov 11, 2023 15:30
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lol Spurs
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Nov 11, 2023 15:38
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harperdc posted:lol Spurs This!!!
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Nov 11, 2023 15:49
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I don't get why they don't use just use position of the players' feet for ruling close offside calls, I know it's supposed to be any part of the body that can score but it would be easy and fast to accurately judge which is definitely not the case with the current rule. Also: harperdc posted:lol Spurs
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Nov 11, 2023 15:56
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qirex posted:I don't get why they don't use just use position of the players' feet for ruling close offside calls, I know it's supposed to be any part of the body that can score but it would be easy and fast to accurately judge which is definitely not the case with the current rule. I would imagine feet are the last thing the on-field officials are looking at, so rhen you'd end up with the on-field officials and VAR explicitly looking at different things instead of unofficially
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Nov 11, 2023 16:00
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Players feet and also a gap between their front foot and the furthest back foot of the opposition, if you're 5mm further forward than a defender then that's not an advantage of the type that offside was meant to address. A lot of stuff that happens now is geared around an offside trap sitting about 5cm higher up than the attacking player and then sitting around for a year while VAR works out what happened using the lowest resolution cameras you can get hold of.
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Nov 11, 2023 16:01
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VAR refs should be given a limited number of replays and instructed only to overturn obviously incorrect calls. The fact that they’re drawing lines and stuff is mental.
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Nov 11, 2023 16:22
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Some of the VAR complaints are also complaints about the rules of football as well
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Nov 11, 2023 16:23
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blue footed boobie posted:VAR refs should be given a limited number of replays and instructed only to overturn obviously incorrect calls. The fact that they’re drawing lines and stuff is mental. it is wild that thanks to the miracles of modern technology a rule written to stop players from just hanging out in the penalty area all match has turned into "if you are 1mm past the defender we will rule out your teammate's goal scored on the other side of the pitch"
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Nov 11, 2023 17:07
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e: nm
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Nov 11, 2023 17:16
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vyelkin posted:I watched a few matches of the Rugby World Cup and they seemed to do pretty well with their version of VAR. One of the big differences was that the game clock is stopped while they're doing a VAR check so the refs wouldn't feel under time pressure to make a rushed decision. I don't think that's a useful comparison to football, but the other big difference was that the television audience could see and hear the ref and the VAR talking to one another, so you could understand their full decision-making process and know you were seeing exactly what they were seeing. That might help make the VAR process a little less mystifying, and also force the refs to act professionally because they know they're being broadcast live to millions of people. I think one of the major differences with the way that it's implemented in rugby is that a try is a try unless the referee asks for it to be reviewed for a possible infringement, which he conveys to the crowd via the medium of mime, rather than everything being subject to ten minutes of watching the Zapruder film. Similarly, if he sees something on the field, he can ask to watch a replay of it, rather than just doing his own poo poo and then getting overruled by bluetooth. Absolutely agree that people forget how bad the refereeing was before everything got video reviewed to death, but there's probably a middle ground.
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Nov 11, 2023 21:44
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the other thing is that it's way easier to score points in rugby than it is in football - a chalked off goal will have way more impact than a chalked off try
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Nov 11, 2023 21:58
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FullLeatherJacket posted:Absolutely agree that people forget how bad the refereeing was before everything got video reviewed to death, but there's probably a middle ground. This, (semi) automated offside and VAR watching for things like fouls that should be a red card and dives in the box where there's no contact are good. Independent VAR crews or whatever would be way better than scrapping the whole thing.
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Nov 11, 2023 22:06
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just remembering cool moments in professional refereeing when you could take wild idiot dives in the box and have a 50% chance of getting a penalty or when you could elbow smash a guy hard enough he does a fencing response and get a yellow for it, which can't be upgraded on review
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Nov 11, 2023 22:11
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also the dude who helped south korea beat italy and then went to jail for trying to smuggle thirteen pounds of heroin through JFK
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Nov 11, 2023 22:19
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FullLeatherJacket posted:or when you could elbow smash a guy hard enough he does a fencing response and get a yellow for it, which can't be upgraded on review
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Nov 11, 2023 22:25
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FullLeatherJacket posted:just remembering cool moments in professional refereeing when you could take wild idiot dives in the box and have a 50% chance of getting a penalty yes op, I remember it and it was great
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Nov 11, 2023 23:47
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Thanks Ants posted:Some of the VAR complaints are also complaints about the rules of football as well Some of the rules are pretty ambiguous and it's very annoying waiting for the VAR review when the rule they're considering isn't clearly defined in the first place. For example, does anyone know exactly what counts as a handball? How many replays does it take to know if an arm is in a position that is not a "consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation"? The criteria for awarding a free kick say nothing about 'getting the ball' and instead use the language of "careless, reckless, or excessively forceful" contact, but VAR takes ages looking to see if a penalty should be awarded because the defender's toe grazed the attacker's foot. It reminds me of American football when they bring out the chains to measure precisely between two points that the refs have determined subjectively.
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Nov 12, 2023 01:50
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getting rid of video replay is stupid, other leagues can do it. the problem is the inept morons in english refereeing that need to be cleared out
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Nov 12, 2023 02:58
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Xabi posted:You still only get a yellow for elbows. even less if you're a linesman
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Nov 12, 2023 08:39
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New avs just dropped https://twitter.com/FPL_BlackWolf/status/1723021813230252534
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Nov 12, 2023 08:49
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J Hume posted:For example, does anyone know exactly what counts as a handball? I did and then they changed what handball was and I didn't anymore. And it'll happen to you!
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Nov 12, 2023 10:00
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Bald Emery looks dangerous
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Nov 12, 2023 11:32
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Thanks Ants posted:Bald Emery looks dangerous buh gawd that's Tommaso Ciampa's music and so on and so forth
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Nov 12, 2023 11:39
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J Hume posted:Some of the rules are pretty ambiguous and it's very annoying waiting for the VAR review when the rule they're considering isn't clearly defined in the first place. For example, does anyone know exactly what counts as a handball? How many replays does it take to know if an arm is in a position that is not a "consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation"? This is the crux of the problem for me. VAR as a tool is great, but you put the same replay in front of 10 different refs and you are likely to get 10 different rulings. If a bs ruling was at least consistent it wouldn't be such an issue.
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Nov 12, 2023 12:22
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FullLeatherJacket posted:also the dude who helped south korea beat italy and then went to jail for trying to smuggle thirteen pounds of heroin through JFK Not all heroes wear capes
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Nov 12, 2023 18:35
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Top 5 separated by 3 points is cool and good
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Nov 12, 2023 20:24
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someone with a twitter account should post a tweet here about De Zerbi saying he "dislikes 80% of english refs" lol
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Nov 12, 2023 23:46
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Wazzerphuk posted:New avs just dropped Is there a way to see these without having a twitter, sorry, x, account?
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Nov 13, 2023 00:14
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The Perfect Element posted:Is there a way to see these without having a twitter, sorry, x, account? https://nitter.net/
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Nov 13, 2023 00:19
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whoa https://twitter.com/eurofootcom/status/1723756834631163953#m
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Nov 13, 2023 00:46
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https://twitter.com/DeadlineDayLive/status/1724069605440950553?t=BJzAoQCBi_Qwmho26Pxlvw&s=19 One simple way to make the calls stop. Though, I would rather see the end of season results of doubling down on Erik.
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Nov 13, 2023 15:30
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Feeling more positive about my Marco Silva sack race pick now that ten Hag has found some form and Chelsea look alright again
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Nov 13, 2023 15:32
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Howard Webb has told Farteta to do one https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/nov/14/howard-webb-dismisses-mikel-arteta-complaints-over-newcastle-win-against-arsenal
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Nov 14, 2023 22:59
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"Clear and obvious error" is their cop out for anything they want. The entire system is designed first and foremost to placate their fragile egos.
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Nov 14, 2023 23:03
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