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pixaal posted:chat needs to be
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Nov 10, 2023 01:44
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Thanks again for those replies, they're all really helpful. I am starting to find myself staring up at the mountain that represents the challenge of making a game like this, and am really worried that I may be getting in way over my head. I'm also not really sure if I can actually make something that people will want to play... it feels like the genre is kinda complete? Like, is there room for innovation in incremental idle games these days?
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Nov 10, 2023 02:47
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A lot of people making idle games are making games that they themselves want to play. A lot of them also have very humble beginnings. The starting point is the idea for the main conceit of the game to build off of. You're going way ahead of yourself with these thoughts of other people playing it or inventing the next paradigm of idle gaming.
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Nov 10, 2023 03:01
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It's not the worst idea to have some broad strokes end goals in mind when starting out so you don't end up trying to spaghetti in features at a later date. It's gonna happen anyway but something like "is/isn't multiplayer" is kinda a big decision that will determine a lot of what you build first.
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Nov 10, 2023 04:23
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neurotech posted:it feels like the genre is kinda complete? Like, is there room for innovation in incremental idle games these days? Oh yeah 100%, but if I could tell you exactly what it was off the top of my head it wouldn't really be innovation.
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Nov 10, 2023 05:29
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There's room for new ideas but there's definitely also room for old concepts executed well. I could easily see getting hooked on something like Derivative Clicker + A Dark Room, for instance. Or maybe something that takes after Armory and Machine.
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Nov 10, 2023 05:42
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If you make something with a definite endpoint that can be easily reached within a day to a week at most, I will play it no questions asked, because for some reason idle games that take a reasonable amount of time and have an actual ending fell out of favor quickly, and I'm always on the lookout for more of those.
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Nov 10, 2023 06:09
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Inadequately posted:If you make something with a definite endpoint that can be easily reached within a day to a week at most, I will play it no questions asked, because for some reason idle games that take a reasonable amount of time and have an actual ending fell out of favor quickly, and I'm always on the lookout for more of those. Yeah. Also, steal gooboos resource cap system. It's great.
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Nov 10, 2023 09:46
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The most important thing is communication not just in discord but on site, have a way to tell players that just open the tab every day in game "hey the update needs to be pushed back" If you have to push an update back for real life reasons. And the biggest thing consistent releases trimps is great because there's basically an update every month. The big trick here is hold things back, have a new expansion for a feature bit people don't seem to be struggling for power just yet? That's content for when you are working on a major feature, or something comes up. This allows you to take a vacation. Players will get bored waiting for an update grinding a wall if you aren't throwing them new things. This is less important in a small self contained idle obviously.
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Nov 10, 2023 11:38
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Inadequately posted:If you make something with a definite endpoint that can be easily reached within a day to a week at most, I will play it no questions asked, because for some reason idle games that take a reasonable amount of time and have an actual ending fell out of favor quickly, and I'm always on the lookout for more of those. If it ends in a reasonable time you can't get people to watch ads/buy premium currency/join your patreon
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Nov 10, 2023 13:08
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neurotech posted:Thanks again for those replies, they're all really helpful. I am starting to find myself staring up at the mountain that represents the challenge of making a game like this, and am really worried that I may be getting in way over my head. I'm also not really sure if I can actually make something that people will want to play... it feels like the genre is kinda complete? Like, is there room for innovation in incremental idle games these days? There's always room for an idle game with an interesting progression path. Essentially don't go in assuming the game is supposed to hold the player hostage for as long as possible. You want to: - present the player with a door, - tease that there's something really cool behind the door, - have the player finally reach the door, - find cool stuff behind the door, - tease a new door. And have this happen in a reasonable amount of time. If the time between one door and another is six months or more, or if there's no final door to open, or if there's an extreme amount of busywork to get to the next door (even if it takes longer, I want offline progress to still get me there one day, NGU Idle was really good about this), then we're dealing with "Time Until The Player Gets Bored". Idle players have a high threshold before they get bored of an idle game, so your game is really failing hard if the player stops playing because they got bored. Other thoughts: It's especially cool if something behind a new door changes the way something else behind an old door used to work. Sometimes making the numbers go down is a good idea, as long as it is in service of helping open a new door. Fostering a sense of mystery and surprise is tantalizing (take a look at Fidget Spinner RPG, the game is a literal acid trip and I'm really curious where it's all going; Antimatter Dimensions is also really good about this, especially with the Reality update). On pricing: 5-10 dollars is a good entry price. Don't gate anything behind IAPs (Idle Pins is annoying about this) if you choose to do this. Simple cosmetics will sell for a lot, on the understanding that it is a way to reward the dev (I have no problem buying a recolor for a dollar, for example). I staunchly refuse to purchase anything that might give me any sort of boost, even if it's negligible. Inadequately posted:If you make something with a definite endpoint that can be easily reached within a day to a week at most, I will play it no questions asked, because for some reason idle games that take a reasonable amount of time and have an actual ending fell out of favor quickly, and I'm always on the lookout for more of those. This can't be overstated - plan an endpoint. In fact, plan out the entire progression path, even if it's a rough sketch, so the game doesn't feel like you got bored making it. Or maybe you decided to pull the plug on it because you kept adding things thoughtlessly, so it ended up being too much to manage, and now you have parts of it unfinished. Despite what many idle games might imply, people do not live forever and do not want to grind mobile ads to have slightly more endgame currency to maintain an endgame base. Blattdorf fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 21:33
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dipwood posted:A lot of people making idle games are making games that they themselves want to play. A lot of them also have very humble beginnings. The starting point is the idea for the main conceit of the game to build off of. You're going way ahead of yourself with these thoughts of other people playing it or inventing the next paradigm of idle gaming. Yeah, this is what I did. I iterated through a bunch of ideas for the kind of idle I wanted and thought didn't exist, until I settled on a general loop that I enjoyed playing (boy, I had some ideas that sounded fun but got tiresome quick). Then I basically scrapped everything and redesigned everything around that loop. pixaal posted:The most important thing is communication not just in discord but on site, have a way to tell players that just open the tab every day in game "hey the update needs to be pushed back" 100% true, but I'm feeling a bit called out  Len posted:If it ends in a reasonable time you can't get people to watch ads/buy premium currency/join your patreon This is one of the things I hate most about the Phone idle game genre I hate most (besides Gacha games co-opting the Idle category). I'm definitely not adverse to popping in  if I get an hour in and am enjoying my time, but there's so many games that basically hard gate progression around ads and its a massive turnoff.
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Nov 10, 2023 21:56
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Deki posted:100% true, but I'm feeling a bit called out You’re still plenty in alpha, this doesn’t really apply until you’re trying to pick up a larger user base and do early access type things or try to roll it to a large audience.
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Nov 10, 2023 21:58
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What does reaping actually do in Gooboo? I don't see a resource accumulating anywhere.
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Nov 10, 2023 22:20
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Suran37 posted:What does reaping actually do in Gooboo? I don't see a resource accumulating anywhere. Once you reach corruption you start getting 1 Corrupted Flesh (purple meat) resource every second, which is used to buy the corruption reduction upgrade. Reaping buffs how many of that you get a second, so it's useful towards reducing corruption to 0% faster (especially when combined with the ash circle prestige upgrade you get at, I think, 61). Pigbuster fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Nov 11, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 23:40
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I can't tell if the Bank event in Gooboo is brilliant or very stupid. I am close to my Topaz cap, so great, I can invest some and not cap out before the Merchant event in a week. And I guess if I had the opposite problem I could take the loan. But man, compared to the actually interesting choices of "Get exciting prizes, if you are lucky" and "Buy things you need", "Carefully manage your investment" is just dull? Feels like the three regular events should have been a choice each weekend, instead of on a fixed rotation. Have topaz to burn, and its a month until the next big event? Casino. Want a specific upgrade in the merchant? Merchant. The big event is next week and you are out of topaz? Bank. Instead I will precisely calculate how much Topaz to deposit to keep from capping out for a week, deposit that much, and go about my business. Maybe if improving your credit score also offered relics or permanent upgrades? Its a good example of one issue I have with Gooboo: everything is too siloed. I have all these different things I can do to interact with the game, but they only interact with each other at a very remote level. Even minor synergistic bonuses would go a long way to making the game feel more responsive.
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Nov 11, 2023 13:09
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Yeah, I can't think of anything less exciting than putting in 500 Topaz and getting 525 back checks calendar 7 weeks later. Also, looks like latest update slowed down basically everything but Horde by a lot, so I would hold off on it as long as you can. I guess the intent is to make it something you check less often, but it still feels bad to see nerfs across the board. My current Village bottleneck is Plant Fiber, and that's even with the red gem upgrade. Gardener helps a bit but requires like a day's worth of plant fiber to get, and doesn't increase production that much. dipwood fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Nov 11, 2023 |
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Nov 11, 2023 17:03
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Lmao my plant fiber gain was reduced to less than a third of what it was when its already the most miserable resource in village. Extremely glad I download the clients so I can just keep playing on the previous version.
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Nov 11, 2023 17:29
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what the gently caress 90 minutes to grow CARROTS?????????????????
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Nov 11, 2023 17:50
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where's the god damned discord, i'm guinea mad
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Nov 11, 2023 17:51
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Yeah, new Gooboo patch is awful - just slowed the game down a lot. Farm especially is super loving slow now, like one crop per day, but experience levels look to need the same-ish amounts, so it will take multiple days just to level my carrots 1 level up. I liked the Village and Farm, but I think I will drop the game for now.
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Nov 11, 2023 17:58
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Gully Foyle posted:Yeah, new Gooboo patch is awful - just slowed the game down a lot. Farm especially is super loving slow now, like one crop per day, but experience levels look to need the same-ish amounts, so it will take multiple days just to level my carrots 1 level up. I liked the Village and Farm, but I think I will drop the game for now. Gooboo the gainz goblin
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Nov 11, 2023 19:34
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Gooboo was my like, "check back in every 10 minutes while at the computer" game. I haven't played it with these patch notes but it looks like I'll have to dramatically change my relationship with it.quote:Sprinkler grow speed increase +100% > +10%
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Nov 11, 2023 19:46
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For what it's worth, the changes seem to be incredibly poorly received in the Itch comments as well. Wonder if the dev will backpedal?
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Nov 11, 2023 19:53
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It got me to close the tab out, so I appreciate the small amount of free time I got back.
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Nov 11, 2023 20:04
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I was just at the end of a 10m faith run. Now it's a 20m faith run. Honestly I think I'm going to shift from village to mechanic 5 probably. Some of this will get walked back. He's improved upon needs before and these changes are super over the top. I can't see how these don't get walked back a bit.
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Nov 11, 2023 20:43
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Terrible changes, glad to see reception hasn't been good.
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Nov 11, 2023 21:31
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I uhhhh..... Guess I'm not gonna rush to install this patch. Were we cranking through the game too fast?
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Nov 11, 2023 21:45
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I don’t know for sure, but my guess is that people were not playing the intended way. Which is probably too fast. The dev made comments about if active play is better, players will absolutely go with active play to speed through content. So 5 minute cooldown carrots and compounding growth reduction things probably mean that certain milestones went by way too fast with carrots, for example. Probably handled really poorly to implement a massive slowdown if the intended goal is to bring offline and online play roughly into parity. If these things had been in place from the start, people would have judged the game based on the current cycle times. Now they are basing them against what they used to be. I will probably keep my browser window open for a little while and see how things pan out. Maybe try to make it through the next big event. If things are still slow and/or bad after that, I might put it down for awhile and check back after a few big updates.
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Nov 11, 2023 21:55
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Yeah, this has killed any desire I had to keep playing.
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Nov 11, 2023 22:15
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I think I realized why I'm falling off Gooboo. There is no choice to make in horde, there is very little choice in mining and the choice is there arbitrarily through certain zones not having certain minerals, village there some choice to start but becomes less so later on. Combine the lack of choices with extremely slow gameplay, very shallow challenges, minimal automation, and no meaningful progression and you hit a point of not caring. Might be worth checking out a few months from now, but in its current state this game doesn't offer much beyond Adventure Capitalist in terms of gameplay or content.
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Nov 11, 2023 22:19
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Malt posted:I think I realized why I'm falling off Gooboo. There is no choice to make in horde, there is very little choice in mining and the choice is there arbitrarily through certain zones not having certain minerals, village there some choice to start but becomes less so later on. Very much agreed. And with the nerfing of all the different choices into the long timers, there are even fewer choices a player needs to be making to play the game. I want decisions I make to inform the gameplay in a way that impacts future decisions. I also don’t want to be waiting for a week before there’s another decision to be made. Every change being made is taking out or extremely restricting the impact of player agency and that’s not much fun and isn’t really playing the game.
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Nov 11, 2023 23:28
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gooboo the downloaded client doesnt automatically update does it? i havent noticed any changes
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Nov 11, 2023 23:51
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Meskhenet posted:gooboo the downloaded client doesnt automatically update does it? It does not, no.
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Nov 12, 2023 00:01
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In NGU Idle is the first pair of augment and enhancement supposed to be the only one worth really investing in? I've completed all 5 No Aug challenges and it still seems like that gives the most bang for your energy point investment
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Nov 12, 2023 00:49
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Malt posted:I think I realized why I'm falling off Gooboo. There is no choice to make in horde, there is very little choice in mining and the choice is there arbitrarily through certain zones not having certain minerals, village there some choice to start but becomes less so later on. I was thinking about this a bit, and you are mostly right. There is some player choices, but they all mostly revolve around gems, and a lot of them are either outright broken, or are based on crazy odds. Take treasures, a somewhat recent change apparently has broken what drops for people. There are some bug reports of people cheating themselves massive amounts of gems to check, and higher than tier 1 treasure, only certain treasure types will drop. And I believe this was partly due to the dev not liking that people were save scumming to determine what treasures would drop. The cards are also a nifty idea, but the chase rares need a pity drop counter or something. Sure, it is nice to be able to use the duplicates for a bonus on rebirths, but with it being completely random, it doesn’t really feel like a great choice. There is a bit of agency in what to buy with the red gems, but with the slow trickle, you get to make a choice every couple of days, and hopefully it is helpful, but sometimes it is hard to tell how impactful a x1.5 really will be. The only true player agency choice seemed to be the choice to make a deep long run to get an achievement and/or relic. And that can be a decent choice, do I let this idle an extra day or two so I get that 2x boost, or never have to buy xxxxxx again can be an interesting choice. But if the dec is going to force the long runs on everyone, then that is another choice lost. So it mostly boils down to what you buy with the prestige currency, but there is not too much variance there within each “task”.
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Nov 12, 2023 01:58
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Thanks again again for all the really insightful responses to my earlier posts. I've been spending all morning in Google Sheets charting out progression projections and I think my brain is scrambled. I regret not paying more attention in Maths at high school 
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Nov 12, 2023 02:15
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Lib and let die posted:In NGU Idle is the first pair of augment and enhancement supposed to be the only one worth really investing in? I've completed all 5 No Aug challenges and it still seems like that gives the most bang for your energy point investment
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Nov 12, 2023 04:04
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Ghostlight posted:it's been a long time, but initially yes - you want them full-barred so the cheapest is the best for quite a while. the other ones come online as you get more energy and more cost reductions, to the point where you'll eventually run all of them on a single point of energy each. I think you're talking about badic trainings, not augments.
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Nov 12, 2023 05:05
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The Gooboo update is being poorly received in the discord I just joined today to also complain. I would have just bounced off immediately but I actually unlocked the 5th minigame today and just ignored the other tabs. I haven't seen any stated reasons for the changes so I don't want to assume, but if the issue is that players are burning through content too fast, the dev should accept it instead of expecting people to play his dumb game for years. edit: I see this in the Discord announcements from a few weeks ago: quote:There is also a big goal I'd like to hit with the next few versions, this is something I already did in previous updates, but not to this extent. I am talking about shifting the focus away from fast-paced active progression to a more idle playstyle, and reducing the impact of RNG. Like I mentioned in some of my earlier patchnotes, Gooboo was always supposed to be a more idle game instead of an active incremental. And while I don't mind having active options, the past has shown that having them in the game incentivizes ruthless grinding, which both frustrates players and causes them to progress much faster than intended. Like with school and horde, if there is a mechanic in the game that lets you easily progress with active grind, it will be a priority target for changes. dipwood fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 08:05
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