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Mission Trees own.  Also people waaayyyyyy overvalue perma claims. Oh boy slightly cheaper coring cost and a bad cb that doesn't expire, how overpowered  Detheros fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Nov 11, 2023 |
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Nov 11, 2023 15:07
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You know you can just not do the mission trees right?
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Nov 11, 2023 16:37
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:You know you can just not do the mission trees right? Yes, I can carefully evaluate which parts of the game to use for the optimal experience. I could read the wiki and learn what "fires an event X" mission rewards really do and make sure I don't do these. I can even mod them out! And for games that aren't moddable I can decompile the executable and change them however I like. If you think about it there's no valid criticism for any videogame. Detheros posted:Mission Trees own. Yeah they can be fun. Permanent claims might not mean a lot for a well-planned game (but probably mean a lot in a speedrunner WC where diplomat availability becomes a limiting factor) but psychologically it removes a big part of the game, at least for a casual player like me. You no longer have to prepare for a war in a relatively timely matter, you now that as long as the country exists you can attack them at any time. You don't get situation where someone gets in a tough war and you wish you'd prepare ahead by getting some CB on them.
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Nov 11, 2023 16:54
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ilitarist posted:Yeah they can be fun. Okay so that puts it in, "Nice to have" territory and not the ridiculous that you were complaining about.
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Nov 11, 2023 17:02
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ilitarist posted:Played a bit more of Livonian Order. It rapidly pushes me into "MTs are evil camp".
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Nov 11, 2023 17:04
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The older trees are definitely lacking compared to the new stuff that's being put out. Paradox redid the French tree after redoing them a few years ago. The only thing that bugs me about permanent claims is that is does dilute the power of diplomats, because now I can just have them all improving relations instead of worrying about maintaining claims. But that does kind of go away if you use the holy war CB or make it to imperialism anyway. Edit: I kind of hope they redo the Austrian tree before they finish working on EU4. There my favorite country and I'd like to see them with a mission tree that varies. gurragadon fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Nov 11, 2023 |
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Nov 11, 2023 17:25
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Detheros posted:Okay so that puts it in, "Nice to have" territory and not the ridiculous that you were complaining about. This is ridiculous cause this meant that for most of the campaign I didn't have to use diplomats to fabricate claims at all, even when I attacked Catholic countries holding territory between Poland and Urals. Maybe you thought it means permanent cores on Fabricating claims also works in a way that limits how many claims you can have at a time, and they only give -10% to core price while permanent ones give -25%. Usually to expand fast you have to conquer some lands with no claims at all and it's not the case here. And it's not a reward for some feat, it's what you get for conventional play. Again, if you're doing WC it probably doesn't feel significant. I don't know, maybe for you it means a difference between WC in 1600 and WC in 1580, but to me it feels like the game paves me a path to greatness that isn't earned. As I've posted earlier in the beginning I felt like I'm in a tight spot, but then you get a steamroller feeling that I usually only get in EU4 when I have a huge lategame empire.
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Nov 11, 2023 17:55
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ilitarist posted:Yes, I can carefully evaluate which parts of the game to use for the optimal experience. I could read the wiki and learn what "fires an event X" mission rewards really do and make sure I don't do these. I can even mod them out! And for games that aren't moddable I can decompile the executable and change them however I like. If you think about it there's no valid criticism for any videogame. I think you should press the "Declare War" button on every country since you have such an aversion to not pressing buttons.
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Nov 11, 2023 17:56
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Remember how the initial version of concentrate development was more powerful than the current version and all the fools complained about it instead of just ignoring a part of the game?
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Nov 11, 2023 18:08
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Buddy, I barely remember where half the buttons are, much less what concentrate development does now, much less what it used to do.
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Nov 11, 2023 18:28
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Players shouldn't be expected to act as developers to balance the game on the fly (without always even knowing what the bonus they're going to get is ahead of time).
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Nov 11, 2023 18:34
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ilitarist posted:This is ridiculous cause this meant that for most of the campaign I didn't have to use diplomats to fabricate claims at all, even when I attacked Catholic countries holding territory between Poland and Urals. Maybe you thought it means permanent cores on Fabricating claims also works in a way that limits how many claims you can have at a time, and they only give -10% to core price while permanent ones give -25%. Usually to expand fast you have to conquer some lands with no claims at all and it's not the case here. And it's not a reward for some feat, it's what you get for conventional play. It's literally just a worse Horde CB (something hordes get for existing), nice to have but not gamebreaking. Detheros fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Nov 11, 2023 |
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Nov 11, 2023 18:50
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Detheros posted:It's literally just a worse Horde CB (something hordes get for existing), nice to have but not gamebreaking. It's also 25% core creation cost on those provinces. That's big too, especially if you have admin ideas.
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Nov 11, 2023 19:01
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Again, nice to have, not busted.
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Nov 11, 2023 19:07
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I'm wishing Kandy had a mission tree that gave perma claims because right now I'm limited by bad (suboptimal) idea choices and a lack of diplomats. I need to conquer a lot of land (all of India! Its huge!) and I dont have Imperialism yet so I either need claims or pay through the nose in diplopoints to annex lots of land. edit: it doesnt help that I got distracted by the lure of using all of Indonesia as a power base, so I spent a ton of time and effort conquering that first.
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Nov 11, 2023 19:26
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Dip is free, always dipannex
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Nov 11, 2023 19:27
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Detheros posted:Dip is free, always dipannex
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Nov 11, 2023 19:29
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I hope you're using strong duchys
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Nov 11, 2023 19:32
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Do Indians get strong duchies? I think the castes don't have it, but I'm not sure.
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Nov 11, 2023 19:45
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Honestly I forget, I haven't been there since my Kandy run where I moved to Indonesia, lmao
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Nov 11, 2023 19:51
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Staltran posted:Do Indians get strong duchies? I think the castes don't have it, but I'm not sure. Rajputs get the same thing under a different name, but iirc they’re only in the north so Kandy gets marathas instead
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Nov 11, 2023 19:51
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The only thing wrong with mission trees is that not all countries have them There's some really goofy outliers, like how mamluks didn't have one until just a few days ago, and how janky the Timurid one is (though both Mughals and Persia have good trees so that only matters if you want to stay Timmy). One funny thing with the Timurid missions is that its the same tree for Timmy itself and for all the vassals, so you routinely get claims on your own land for your missions depending on which country you pick. e: speaking of Indonesia, what countries around there have decent flavor stuff? I've played majapahit but I don't know who else is cool and who's generic
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Nov 11, 2023 19:55
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cheetah7071 posted:The only thing wrong with mission trees is that not all countries have them
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Nov 11, 2023 19:56
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Kandy has both Marathas and Nobles, so thankfully yes I have Strong Duchies. But that only helps so much when you have 4 relatively large vassals. I want to give Khmer more land because they're a March but the other non-Marches would be pushing the upper limit of staying loyal. edit: Detheros posted:Honestly I forget, I haven't been there since my Kandy run where I moved to Indonesia, lmao AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Nov 11, 2023 |
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Nov 11, 2023 20:06
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Mission trees are good and after a billion hours playing the same countries, I welcome the insane branching ones and weird arcadey paths Zoroastrian persia is extremely my jam
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Nov 11, 2023 20:09
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cheetah7071 posted:The only thing wrong with mission trees is that not all countries have them Doing Switzerland in a multiplayer game recently, I was surprised at their mission tree. It was anemic, like they put in the Swiss-specific ones, but forgot to add the regional one. Like how the HRE bishopries get the normal tree, with a few HRE and bishop ones thrown in.
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Nov 11, 2023 20:17
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Kandy has both Marathas and Nobles, so thankfully yes I have Strong Duchies. But that only helps so much when you have 4 relatively large vassals. I want to give Khmer more land because they're a March but the other non-Marches would be pushing the upper limit of staying loyal. Oh Kandy is Buddhist? I assumed they're Hindu and religious wouldn't help with India much. Religious would have been really good then. Or espionage to claim states, but I'm not sure how valuable the ae reduction would be in India.
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Nov 11, 2023 20:36
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Staltran posted:Oh Kandy is Buddhist? I assumed they're Hindu and religious wouldn't help with India much. Religious would have been really good then. Or espionage to claim states, but I'm not sure how valuable the ae reduction would be in India.
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Nov 11, 2023 21:03
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MonsieurChoc posted:How do you even do the Zoro-Austrian achievement? I'm not quite finished with it yet (doing the Persian tree now), but my strategy was something like this: - No CB Byz to gently caress the Ottomans - Do what you need to get the Bohemia and Hungary PUs (I also ended up getting Milan, but I don't think it's a big deal to miss that) - Beat up the Ottos for Byz cores and some stuff in Anatolia, I didn't end up getting a border with anyone else over there until the second war though. - Kill whatever's left in the Balkans while you're waiting on truces - Once you get borders past the Ottos, snake towards Persian culture (the specific culture, not group, there's plenty of dev in it), as well as the required provinces for Persia - Once you have a good chunk of Persian culture stated, de-state enough stuff to culture shift, and then you can form Persia! Zoro's easy to get without rebel stuff, just pick their branch of the mission tree and it starts an event chain. Couple tricky things I ran into: - Coring in Persia sucks hard with your capital in Vienna, and you can't move it out of the HRE easily - When you stop being HRE emperor due to going Zoro, you're stuck with duchy rank (or kingdom if you're an elector) Solved both of these by getting out of the HRE before I formed Persia (gave all my Austrian land to a Styrian vassal, and gave away my Swabian lands to someone in a war, that way I had no HRE provinces left. Then move capital to Constantinople if it didn't go there automagically. Here's what my country looked like right after swapping to Persia: 
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Nov 11, 2023 21:24
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Mamluk is so strong now haha.
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Nov 11, 2023 23:47
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Is it correct that a province can’t be in the HRE and a trade company at the same time? The button to add to trade company doesn’t seem to exist. I think I can add all provinces from the trade node screen but not individual ones.
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Nov 12, 2023 14:47
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Sri.Theo posted:Is it correct that a province can’t be in the HRE and a trade company at the same time? The button to add to trade company doesn’t seem to exist. Yeah, HRE provinces can't be in a TC. There was something with it you used to be able to cheese with the add all button, but I believe that got patched out a while back.
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Nov 12, 2023 19:15
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atvrager posted:Yeah, HRE provinces can't be in a TC. There was something with it you used to be able to cheese with the add all button, but I believe that got patched out a while back. Yeah, you'd be able to stack a huge amount of imperial authority by repeatedly TCing and HREing provinces, leading to incredibly fast revokes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm6mC3SGQ6U
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Nov 12, 2023 19:42
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There's nothing wrong with mission trees, but poorly made mission trees suck. You don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
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Nov 12, 2023 21:46
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The actual worst thing about mission trees is when an ally is awarded a claim on one of your provinces and now decided that they want it and get a -200 opinion malus, thus breaking your 100 trust alliance. What I'm saying is give trust a positive opinion modifier above 50. Detheros fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 21:58
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Detheros posted:The actual worst thing about mission trees is when an ally is awarded a claim on one of your provinces and now decided that they want it and get a -200 opinion malus, thus breaking your 100 trust alliance. It is kind of silly that Spain and Portugal will basically always go to war, 'historical friends' or no.
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Nov 12, 2023 22:00
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I don't think I've ever seen them go to war
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Nov 12, 2023 22:45
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mfcrocker posted:Yeah, you'd be able to stack a huge amount of imperial authority by repeatedly TCing and HREing provinces, leading to incredibly fast revokes. Interesting, but as I understand it adding provinces to the HRE doesn’t give you imperial authority any more so it doesn’t matter. You only do it for the buffs.
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Nov 12, 2023 23:17
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A country joining the hre still gives authority. If I understand correctly, the bug was that the button would be clickable, and give IA, in situations where your capital was connected to the HRE, at least one province could be added, but the path between that province and your capital was blocked by trade companies. So you'd un-TC provinces one at a time, wait for the 5 year cooldown before they became eligible to join the HRE, and click the button to join the HRE as each one became eligible.
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Nov 12, 2023 23:34
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cheetah7071 posted:I don't think I've ever seen them go to war When Spain got an updated mission tree, for a while afterwards they would get a Restoration of Union CB on Portugal every game and promptly break the alliance, and it turned Portugal from one of the easiest starts into a tough one. At some point it was updated again so that doesn't happen if there's an alliance in place.
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Nov 13, 2023 00:42
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