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I feel like the filler episodes people want to get rid of are the ones that stick with me most. Like not just the most famous and funny ones where Goku and Piccolo are getting their drivers' licenses, but things like the mirrored spaceship where people who have been hiding from Frieza, or the return of Mercenary Tao. Gohan's solo adventures when Piccolo yeeted him out into the middle of nowhere with nothing but a sword really stood out to me (and I think it often didn't take up full episodes, just asides while Goku and the others were doing their own training, Gohan's in the background), but one full episode it did get was where Gohan joined up with a fighting group of orphans, and eventually they all get betrayed by their leader, because he actually thought that the orphans would be better off in an orphanage. The self-seriousness of the Namek saga through to the Cell saga invites a lot more parody, but before and after there's a lot of the goofy silliness that is actually the core of Akira Toriyama, even if millions of teenagers really identified with the edginess and the angst of the middle part of the show and wanted to be like Trunks. Dragonball fans are lucky that Akira Toriyama got tired of poop jokes after Doctor Slump. There's a similar issue with Mobile Suit Gundam, where there's special movies that cut down on "filler" if you want to watch the original show (and a full-on remake series with a more serious tone), I watched one of the movies to finish off the series after I missed a lot of the original show because the TV schedule moved to before the bus brought me home, and it felt really rushed and kinda left out a lot of details that people referencing Gundam talk about. I kinda want to watch the series again to get a fuller picture, but that's a lot of effort, and maybe I should go watch other Gundam series like Zeta, and urgh I have a headache and there's some background noise, I can't pay attention to something new, I'll just put something old in the background.
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Nov 12, 2023 18:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PalHlXn8CZI Its been so long I completely forgot that this was even happening. (Blood of Zeus s2)
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Nov 12, 2023 18:10
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Stoked for Blood of Zeus S2. Netflix is killing it with animated shows. They also announced Arcane season 2 is coming out November 2024.
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Nov 12, 2023 18:56
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Scavenger's Reign - holy gently caress, what a ride. I can't remember the last time I watched a show like this. If ever. If you watch Scavenger's Reign with the subtitles on apparently the Psycho Panda is referred to as "Hollow". Which is a creepy name in of itself but makes me wonder if that was always it's name, or if that is what all the pandas are called, or if that specific panda got that name as a result of the link with Kamen (ie it is 'hollow' because the natural connection with the planet has been broken by interaction with humans). Either way, a great antagonist for the story and how the survivors dealt with it at the end felt really appropriate. SlothfulCobra posted:I feel like the filler episodes people want to get rid of are the ones that stick with me most. Like not just the most famous and funny ones where Goku and Piccolo are getting their drivers' licenses, but things like the mirrored spaceship where people who have been hiding from Frieza, or the return of Mercenary Tao. Gohan's solo adventures when Piccolo yeeted him out into the middle of nowhere with nothing but a sword really stood out to me The episode you're referring to where Piccolo forces Gohan to survive on his own as training exercise is pretty important in the sense of character development, introducing new information (the moon triggers the Saiyan transformation), and progressing the story, so it's definitely not filler. DBZ had a lot of those but sometimes also took the "slice of life" vignette stuff too far without it adding anything to the story. "Filler" as a concept has been overused as a concept in modern media discourse IMO, for a lot of reasons that are probably more related to shifts in consumption and audience preferences than anything else.
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Nov 12, 2023 19:21
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Mat Cauthon posted:"Filler" as a concept has been overused as a concept in modern media discourse IMO, for a lot of reasons that are probably more related to shifts in consumption and audience preferences than anything else. They ought to get a proper education, show them the last couple seasons of Naruto
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Nov 12, 2023 19:28
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Mat Cauthon posted:"Filler" as a concept has been overused as a concept in modern media discourse IMO, for a lot of reasons that are probably more related to shifts in consumption and audience preferences than anything else.
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Nov 12, 2023 19:41
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Mat Cauthon posted:If you watch Scavenger's Reign with the subtitles on apparently the Psycho Panda is referred to as "Hollow". Which is a creepy name in of itself but makes me wonder if that was always it's name, or if that is what all the pandas are called, or if that specific panda got that name as a result of the link with Kamen (ie it is 'hollow' because the natural connection with the planet has been broken by interaction with humans). Either way, a great antagonist for the story and how the survivors dealt with it at the end felt really appropriate. One of the creators mentions it in an interview; apparently they called it that because its original design had a see-through skin, but it was a nightmare to animate so they dropped it. Not naming any of the aliens in the show itself was a great idea imo, it really added to the vibe. Clipperton fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 19:55
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Lol, I kept seeing like "Hollow grunting" and "Hollow groaning" in the subtitles and I thought they were just being descriptive
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Nov 12, 2023 20:04
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mystes posted:A lot of discussion of "filler" occurs in relation to anime adaptations of manga where there are very clear points where the anime caught up to the manga and had to suddenly write original content (badly). and in that context it doesn't really make sense to blame it on audiences preferring more serialized content now or failing to understand how episodes that are less plot focused are important for character development or whatever Yeah, Its not necessarily because people just want serialized stuff. Its because there is bad characterization of existing characters, stupid plots, lovely original characters, and any character development is non canon.
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Nov 12, 2023 20:15
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Mat Cauthon posted:If you watch Scavenger's Reign with the subtitles on apparently the Psycho Panda is referred to as "Hollow". Which is a creepy name in of itself but makes me wonder if that was always it's name, or if that is what all the pandas are called, or if that specific panda got that name as a result of the link with Kamen (ie it is 'hollow' because the natural connection with the planet has been broken by interaction with humans). Either way, a great antagonist for the story and how the survivors dealt with it at the end felt really appropriate. In the early episodes where we first see the little beasts that Hollow is they're just called "creature" in the subtitles Man sometimes I forget people watch shows without subtitles, I just assume they're always on for everyone SlothfulCobra posted:I feel like the filler episodes people want to get rid of are the ones that stick with me most. You know the main thing I miss from I guess the "last era" of TV is filler episodes. It just brings things to life more doesn't it.
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Nov 12, 2023 20:31
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mystes posted:A lot of discussion of "filler" occurs in relation to anime adaptations of manga where there are very clear points where the anime caught up to the manga and had to suddenly write original content (badly). and in that context it doesn't really make sense to blame it on audiences preferring more serialized content now or failing to understand how episodes that are less plot focused are important for character development or whatever I'm not trying to blame audiences - I think a lot of the shifts in both consumption and storytelling are the result of decisions made by major studios, producers, etc plus the advent of streaming and other internet-based content formations that people are left to adapt to. These days most shows get 8-12 episodes to tell a story that they would've had 16-24 episodes for ~15 years ago, so of course people are going to be more comfortable with that sort of tightly serialized pacing rather than something like X-Files or LOST. Both of those shows committed plenty of missteps in their later seasons that could be fairly called "filler", but it seems like people are quick to apply that label for various reasons - I've seen people complaining about episodes like "Home" because it "distracted from the main plot". The flipside is stuff like S4 of Stranger Things, where the episodes got longer and longer even as the story got weaker so there's a good amount of "filler" that could've been avoided with some tighter plotting and less reliance on cheap nostalgia.
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Nov 12, 2023 20:38
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Scavengers Reign ending spoiler the vision of the development of Vesta life seems to start with a large impactor. I'm wondering if life came about from natural chemical processes, cosmic panspermia, or intentionally from the fungal leper Catholics. Something to think about but really I'd rather they just... stopped. I get the desire to explain/expand things to make like short fiction into a novel (or novels), season into series but it usually takes away from what I liked about it. Still if there's a S2 and it's great I won't complain lol
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Nov 12, 2023 21:01
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Mat Cauthon posted:"Filler" as a concept has been overused as a concept in modern media discourse IMO, for a lot of reasons that are probably more related to shifts in consumption and audience preferences than anything else. Filler does have a literal meaning for anime, because there are self-contained episodes that don't really contribute to the plot that were invented by the anime studio and don't exist in the original manga, so they can be directly filtered out by just analyzing what does and doesn't happen in the original material. This is also relevant to how so much anime has a pretense towards always continuing an ongoing plot that filler episodes will more blatantly be But it starts getting weird when Anime just plain will structure itself differently. The original Fullmetal Alchemist anime had clear filler like the episode where they went to some kind of Venice analogue or went to a mining town to investigate "the red rocks" in a mining town, but also at some point when they ran out of manga, they just created an entirely separate plot, which was okay, but not great. The later Brotherhood series was all about trying to be accurate to the manga, but still chose to start with its own original episode for some reason (and I don't think it's a great presentation compared to the manga). A lot of series just end up going entirely original, like Ghost in the Shell, often they may just make decisions because they think they know better than the original (and sometimes they do, the GitS manga is not much to write home about compared to its adaptations). Sometimes it even starts as an anime and gets adapted to manga. Sometimes the anime and manga get started concurrently, that was the case with Patlabor, and it only later circles around to joining up the plots. And then you get people reusing the idea of "filler" for shows that aren't adaptations at all, and it's just talking about when episodes are self-contained and are unnecessary for understanding later plots, which some shows just want to sit around and take their time. A lot of current cartoons aren't really shooting for hard narratives right now, and Steven Universe was notoriously lackadaisical with its plot, that was just its vibe. Taear posted:In the early episodes where we first see the little beasts that Hollow is they're just called "creature" in the subtitles That's a big problem, especially with the era of streaming, everybody has to watch things purposefully, so there's much less programming being made to fill time. Prestige shows full of intrigue and drama are what drive subscriptions, but even then it's expensive to make more, so they'll be put in really tight miniseries formats instead of letting the viewer relax. You might be expected to watch it all at once like a stupidly long movie. I've heard people talk about how there's a real lack of newer sitcoms to fill out streaming service libraries, because there's too much focus on the prestige.
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Nov 12, 2023 21:37
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GloomMouse posted:Scavengers Reign ending spoiler the vision of the development of Vesta life seems to start with a large impactor. I'm wondering if life came about from natural chemical processes, cosmic panspermia, or intentionally from the fungal leper Catholics. Something to think about but really I'd rather they just... stopped. I get the desire to explain/expand things to make like short fiction into a novel (or novels), season into series but it usually takes away from what I liked about it. Still if there's a S2 and it's great I won't complain lol Yeah, I loved the show but I would be a-okay with there not being more and this is just a self contained thing.
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Nov 12, 2023 21:55
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Always make more seasons. It might be bad but I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the creators after that great first season.
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Nov 12, 2023 23:21
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Data Graham posted:Lol, I kept seeing like "Hollow grunting" and "Hollow groaning" in the subtitles and I thought they were just being descriptive lol, same here. Thinking on the series, the closest thing it reminds me of, apart from Fantastic Planet of course or the Akira transformation scenes, are the old animated MTV shorts from the 80s. Gloriously weird.
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Nov 13, 2023 04:12
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Peter Chung is a definite influence, along with all the euro stuff. Kris seems extremely rotoscoped from 1980 for some reason. The kid with her kind of does too, but nobody else really does.
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Nov 13, 2023 04:32
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I AM GRANDO posted:Peter Chung is a definite influence, along with all the euro stuff. Kris seems extremely rotoscoped from 1980 for some reason. The kid with her kind of does too, but nobody else really does. I really noticed that in the last episode and thought I was tripping.
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Nov 13, 2023 04:45
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Steven Universe tended to kinda invert the pacing that we're used to; major plot developments would appear quite suddenly and episodes would be devoted to the aftermath, rather than build up to a climax. Still reminded how a lot of serialised shows seem to spend like, 8 of 12 episodes faffing about and then suddenly remember there's a plot and cram it into the last few episodes.
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Nov 13, 2023 07:29
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Mat Cauthon posted:If you watch Scavenger's Reign with the subtitles on apparently the Psycho Panda is referred to as "Hollow". Which is a creepy name in of itself but makes me wonder if that was always it's name, or if that is what all the pandas are called, or if that specific panda got that name as a result of the link with Kamen (ie it is 'hollow' because the natural connection with the planet has been broken by interaction with humans). Either way, a great antagonist for the story and how the survivors dealt with it at the end felt really appropriate. Not just the subtitles, it's also named that on the map Ursula has in her journal in the end:  Probably not sensible to read too much into what is essentially a freeze-frame bonus, but that sort of suggests it's a name the survivors picked for it after they sat down and discussed what happened to them.
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Nov 13, 2023 10:46
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Will also chime in that scavenger's reign was great, the series did a good job having some looming sense of dread about the wellbeing of the survivors constantly. And for Kris glad they got some karmic payback for going off alone in the ship and that if more then 1 person joined they would of ran out of supplies that much faster and died before being found by bio-cultists, so in a way the people left on the planet were saved by that compared to all coming aboard and getting lost in space.
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Nov 13, 2023 10:58
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I thought Barry was a pretty good depiction of a non-neurotypical kid, if I'm reading that right. Both being understood/nurtured and also exploited by Kris, he's able to be really effective when he has specific tasks but also really has no tools for dealing with emergent stress.
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Nov 13, 2023 11:38
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Barry was really handled well. He was an actual person, which is loving refreshing to see on screen.
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Nov 13, 2023 15:13
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Steven Universe tended to kinda invert the pacing that we're used to; major plot developments would appear quite suddenly and episodes would be devoted to the aftermath, rather than build up to a climax. Hadn't thought about this before. SU really did spend much more time with the fallout of things than it did building up the foreshadowing or ramping up to The Event - even more so than similar "emotions/relationships first" serial shows.
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Nov 13, 2023 19:17
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The Modern Leper posted:Hadn't thought about this before. SU really did spend much more time with the fallout of things than it did building up the foreshadowing or ramping up to The Event - even more so than similar "emotions/relationships first" serial shows. Even the origin story is kind of doled out on piecemeal over the course of the series (though I still think the segments that make up the first episode should have been switched as Laser Light Cannon works much better as an introduction in my opinion)
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Nov 13, 2023 19:26
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the latest krapopolis was pretty good, the constant attempts to make a reverse medusa were funny
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Nov 14, 2023 15:47
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It's been out for a while but I ended up running through all of Castlevania Nocturne last week. It's alright. Most of the characters are pretty solid but the Vampire Messiah, for all her hype, has basically no personality and doesn't really do anything all that impressive or intimidating. The show also feels really repetitive, it basically boils down to them jumping back and forth between 3 locations for the entire season with very little differentiating each journey. That said, I still loving loved the appearances of Juste and Alucard. Both were fun and unexpected, with Juste being a highlight of the season for me.
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Nov 14, 2023 18:20
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Benagain posted:the latest krapopolis was pretty good, the constant attempts to make a reverse medusa were funny I thought the stuff with the giant was a lot of fun.
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Nov 14, 2023 18:37
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I'm halfway through Scavengers Reign after staying up waaaaaaaaaaaaay too late. That show should come with a warning label telling you to not start it after 11PM. It's like a prog rock album cover by way of Nausicaa. Holy poo poo. Psychic Newt thing is a loving terrifying antagonist, by the way.
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Nov 14, 2023 18:41
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Benagain posted:the latest krapopolis was pretty good, the constant attempts to make a reverse medusa were funny Yeah I cracked up at the first reverse Medusa and the Medusa-related grammar issues.
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Nov 14, 2023 19:25
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Data Graham posted:I thought Barry was a pretty good depiction of a non-neurotypical kid, if I'm reading that right. Both being understood/nurtured and also exploited by Kris, he's able to be really effective when he has specific tasks but also really has no tools for dealing with emergent stress. Yeah I think you were reading it right; he very much came off as neuroatypical. Great character, well done.
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Nov 14, 2023 22:15
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Halfway through Fionna and Cake now. I was going to wait till I was done to give impressions but I feel like I just witnessed some kind of transcendent greatness with The Winter King episode. So glad to see Brian David Gilbert getting rocketed up the ranks, and that animation, whoof. AT was never really about "songs" as I mentioned earlier, and the more traditionally scored F&C seems a little ill-fitting at times, but everything just clicked here with both of those aspects in high gear. This is just a really imaginative take on a universe that just can't bear to go. Distant Lands was good, but I'm not gonna say great. The first three episodes were nice (the Marceline/PB one especially) but a little aimless in a way, like "ok, and? What did this really add?" And the fourth episode I just don't get at all. Who was clamoring for Kid Peppermint Butler Goes to Owl House Hogwarts? If you're only going to get four episodes to play with, this is what you spend 1/4 of your time doing? This is the ultimate finale of the show? Maybe they really did just need to rethink everything, because F&C is doing work. e: I don't know anything about Pendleton Ward but I think it's hilarious and cool how he's just sort of hanging out being all emeritus and voicing "Ellis P" lmao. He just seems like a big dorky goofball. How weird it must be to see something you created almost offhand get away from you and become something like this Data Graham fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Nov 15, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 23:51
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I liked the Peppermint Butler at Hogwarts episode of Distant Lands but I'm a sucker for any wizard school stuff. I felt like they really covered everything they "needed" to in the previous 3 and the last was just a fun romp. Fionna and Cake is the best show in years. I mean its bonkers that we get a show like that the same year as Scavengers Reign and Blue Eyed Samurai. Wow animation is awesome.
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Nov 15, 2023 01:20
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I liked pep but wizard school because it was a thematic capstone about how massive expectations from other people, even well meaning ones, can hold you back and the best thing to do is break the chains and defy them to do your own thing even if it's weird and not what others expect. That episode being the last one is not an accident I think. even if it does feel a little out of nowhere.
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Nov 15, 2023 01:52
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Benagain posted:That episode being the last one is not an accident I think. even if it does feel a little out of nowhere. It was intended to be the third episode that season but it was delayed, and the intended finale and it swapped places.
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Nov 15, 2023 02:23
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Data Graham posted:e: I don't know anything about Pendleton Ward but I think it's hilarious and cool how he's just sort of hanging out being all emeritus and voicing "Ellis P" lmao. He just seems like a big dorky goofball. How weird it must be to see something you created almost offhand get away from you and become something like this His game ideas pitched to Double Fine are all dorky and funny.
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Nov 15, 2023 02:31
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I'd be interested in seeing an Adam Muto show from the ground up, with characters conceived and developed by him. He's an interesting figure because while he's so responsible for Adventure Time's lasting legacy, since he's not the series creator he hasn't received the same sort of acclaim as a Pendleton Ward or Alex Hirsch, or even Patrick McHale. I want to experience the pure uncut Muto sensibility.
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Nov 15, 2023 04:08
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If they do a second season of Scavengers Reign, they should timeskip forward a couple of generations. Totally new story and characters, when the colony is a reasonably prosperous community and Kamen is now just a synonym for boogeyman. Show us what people trying to reindustrialize on this world looks like.
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Nov 15, 2023 04:14
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I finished Scavengers Reign last night. Had a very busy couple weeks so I hadn’t had the time and attention to really sit down and take it all in. But wow is it a masterpiece. Glad to see all the love it got ITT as well. I feel like it was made specifically for me and my sensibilities. I really hope it catches on and they’re able to continue. The world needs more Moebius-inspired sci-fi. My main worry was that the series would only be a showcase for the artists’ to make a bunch of weird biology — which would still be amazing, mind you — but they grounded it in really strong characters. Azi, Ursula, and Sam were given basically no backstory and essentially just wandered from setpiece to setpiece, but they each had very distinct personalities thanks to the phenomenal animation and voice acting. And Barry ended up being a really touching and well-rounded depiction of someone on the spectrum without leaning into the usual tropes. I love the way they ended things with Kamen. He’s there in the colony, working and contributing, but still carrying the weight of everything he did. Most stories would’ve either punished him (probably with an ironic death) or given him a last minute redemption (punctuated by his death by self-sacrifice). Scavengers almost never went with the predictable plot point, and was all the stronger for it. I don’t want them to explain the mysteries too much, but I really would love to learn more about the planet and get a better sense of the way it’s all interconnected. That moment where Levi and Kamen “touch” and we see the time lapse of the entire planet left me completely floored. Ccs posted:I'd be interested in seeing an Adam Muto show from the ground up, with characters conceived and developed by him. He's an interesting figure because while he's so responsible for Adventure Time's lasting legacy, since he's not the series creator he hasn't received the same sort of acclaim as a Pendleton Ward or Alex Hirsch, or even Patrick McHale. I want to experience the pure uncut Muto sensibility. Someone was posting his webcomics in the PYF Comics thread and they were delightfully weird. Hopefully he gets his chance to really make something of his own because I’m just really interested in his creative process.
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Nov 15, 2023 04:39
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Data Graham posted:
He's very much a big dorky goofball and not a lime light in-charge kinda guy, so he's pretty happy with how AT turned out. Just not at all suited for entertainment bullshit and took his first opportunity to bug out of LA and live a quieter life. Really sweet and quiet fella. Friend of mine keeps his LA house for him. It has a secret bookcase room. Pen gets it.
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