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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Guardians 3 just made $850 million. It seems pretty unlikely that the comic book movie concept was a bubble that just collapsed the day after it released. This is a good point. When the larger MCU meta-plot has completely lost all forward momentum and is lost in the wilderness, when quality of scripts and special effects is in the loving toilet, the movies must support their own sequels in the way that Guardians did. Captain Marvel was very boring MCU movie.
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Nov 13, 2023 21:57
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Superhero fatigue is real.Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Reviews are pretty mixed. Not sure there is going to be a huge word of mouth bump. Audience scores are also kind of mixed. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Guardians 3 just made $850 million. It seems pretty unlikely that the comic book movie concept was a bubble that just collapsed the day after it released.
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Nov 13, 2023 22:03
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I’m sure misogyny and anti wokeness plays SOME factor in word of mouth and enthusiasm. Not enough to make or break the film but it’s in the mix. I’m also sure the strike and the lack of any actor promotion played a factor. I imagine there’s another universe identical to ours except where Brie Larson did the Hot Ones with Iman Vellani and the movie made a fortune. I’m also sure there’s truth to the super hero fatigue theory. Or the whole Disney+ tv show or Phase 4 “lostness” theory. It seems clear the Marvel brand isn’t a default license to print money anymore. I also think there’s the general post Covid state of cinema where people will go out for event films but they’ll wait for everything else to hit streaming. And that goes back to the idea that “Marvel” is no longer an event by default. Basically it seems like a lot of factors which ended up here. Which you know. Is how the world works. But also the hand wringing feels silly to me. Besides the people clearly giddy to predict THIS is the end it was already public knowledge before this that Marvel was regrouping and addressing some of these changes/problems and slowing down production to adjust. So really it’s just a bummer if it hurts Velanni’s future or something. I’m actually very excited to see it. But also I don’t go to theaters anymore so I’ll wait for Disney+ and do a little marathon of the first film, WandaVision, and Ms Marvel as I do. 🤷♂️
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Nov 13, 2023 22:46
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just going by social media people seem to be pretty happy that the marvels is doing poorly because it's signaling the time of marvel's heyday is over and they just are flat out not interested in seeing any marvel stuff anymore. they aren't interested in whether the movie itself is any good, and they don't care that the leads are women, it's pure burnout
site fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Nov 13, 2023 |
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Nov 13, 2023 22:49
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There is unquestionably a big “the end is here!!” vibe. Which you just kind of have to laugh at.
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Nov 13, 2023 22:50
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site posted:just going by social media people seem to reveling in the fact that the marvels is doing poorly because they're tired of marvel period. they don't even care about the movie itself I like Marvel stuff but I can see this angle very easily. The popularity of easily digestible superhero stuff in the movie market has really sucked the air out of other genres, since risk averse cokehead execs think "why should I greenlight (X new idea) when i could just print myself millions of dollars with Captain Kickpuncher 5: The Lost Dawn of Rising Origins?" If you aren't a turbonerd with an endless appetite for supers stuff, you're going to start seeing every superhero movie as an opportunity cost against the kinds of films you would like to see more of.
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Nov 13, 2023 22:55
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Guardians 3 was also the last hurrah for the last surviving characters from when the MCU was still shiny and new. I wouldn't be shocked if a lot of people considered GotG3 to be their last stop on the MCU train. It's kind of hard for Marvel to maintain the same momentum when they seem determined to shut the door on so many characters they got people to fall in love with. They really needed to keep some of the "Phase 1" characters around and involved in the movies. Technically Nick Fury, Thor, Hawkeye and Hulk are still kicking around, but are they? Something else — don't shunt the major transitions to Disney+ where they're easy to miss. It's super-cool that Sam Wilson became Captain America, but that should have happened in a movie. If the Hulk has a son, that's a big deal — too big to reveal as a throwaway joke at the tail end of the She-Hulk show. If you want Ms. Marvel to be a pillar of your universe going forward, introduce her in a Spider-Man movie. It might have made more sense to leave the major events on the big screen and keep the TV stuff focused on peripheral characters like Moon Knight or Daredevil who don't really fit into the meta-narrative. It seems like they realized this by turning the Armor Wars series into what will essentially be Iron Man 4, but it might be too late.
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Nov 13, 2023 22:55
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There were a lot of factors working against this movie. -Limited promotion due to the actors' strike -Main character is just not as well known as even an Ant-Man, and on top of that the other two main characters have really only been in MCU TV stuff until this point. -Marvel burnout (maybe) -People are just not going to the theater in general as much as they did pre-Covid.
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Nov 13, 2023 23:13
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Superhero fatigue IS REAL absolutely, and these aren't the big popular characters But if anyone saying there's no bigotry in play with regards to any of the three leads in The Marvels, they either have their head in the sand or are themselves a chud
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Nov 13, 2023 23:14
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I strongly doubt that superhero movies being in decline will somehow lead to a resurgence in other genres, I think it'll just kill off a big swathe of cinema as a whole.
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Nov 13, 2023 23:18
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Fangz posted:I strongly doubt that superhero movies being in decline will somehow lead to a resurgence in other genres, I think it'll just kill off a big swathe of cinema as a whole. People are just going to transition over to toy and video game movies.
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Nov 13, 2023 23:22
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tbf to nick fury he's been in two projects this year
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Nov 13, 2023 23:22
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I don't think it's superhero fatigue, Spiderverse is a big hit and Miles and Gwen in particular are hugely popular characters. I think it's specifically the MCU not really being able to endear people to the newer crop of characters, anti-woke controversy or not.
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Nov 13, 2023 23:23
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Re: the 'anti-woke' people- I don't think that was a significant factor. Those people are loud but they were not going to go and see this anyway. Black Panther 2 had a female lead and made $181 million opening weekend. Even Black Widow, which came out as Covid was still a major problem, opened with $80 million. I think it was already brought up, but The Eternals managed $71 million. This will probably not repeat when Deadpool 3 comes out in July of next year, since that's the next film release assuming no more delays.
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Nov 13, 2023 23:25
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The fascists have won. Disney has fallen
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Nov 13, 2023 23:28
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Captain Marvel has only appeared in post-credit scenes since Endgame and they even yada-yada'd 30 years of her life. She's undercooked as a lead and they teamed her up with two characters who had only appeared in TV shows, which is a big problem people have with the MCU. Deadpool 3 will probably be a big hit so Captain America 4 would be the one to really read into.
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Nov 13, 2023 23:29
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Westerns are coming back, baby
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Nov 13, 2023 23:30
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People see a sequel if they like the first one. Marvel's trick was making every movie a sequel. Captain Marvel made money because it was seen as a sorta sequel to the very successful Infinity War. This is a sequel to that movie, which people didn't actually like nearly as much.
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Nov 13, 2023 23:30
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Mr Hootington posted:The fascists have won. Disney has fallen It’s the super popularity of guys like the Quartering, they’ve really gotten to heartland America with their “women bad” and “diversity bad” message. They’ve won. We’ve all been red pilled.
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Nov 13, 2023 23:35
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I know it’s goons so you’re never gonna have a reasonable conversation without people mocking extreme takes on it. But like it think it’s entirely logical that there’s plenty of assholes in this world who love their power fantasy action films but not when it’s women or nice Pakistani people. That doesn’t mean it tanked the movie. Just that there’s lots of different factors that play into the millions of people who do or don’t go to see a movie. It’s not the one thing that happens to fit your own perspective that did it all.
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Nov 13, 2023 23:46
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I just feel bad for Iman. Now the question is, do I feel bad enough to go see it in a cinema alone rather than wait for D+? Not sure. The impressions in the thread seems good but Captain Marvel was really boring and I don't know if i want to sit through that even for some Ms Marvel scenes. I'd like to live in the alternate universe someone mentioned where Ms marvel is instead in a spiderman movie.
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Nov 13, 2023 23:51
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kiminewt posted:I just feel bad for Iman. Now the question is, do I feel bad enough to go see it in a cinema alone rather than wait for D+? It's very different in tone from Captain Marvel. It's really more like Ms. Marvel
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Nov 13, 2023 23:52
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Never mind
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Nov 14, 2023 00:47
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e: ok nm
site fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Nov 14, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 00:48
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live with fruit posted:It's very different in tone from Captain Marvel. It's really more like Ms. Marvel Her parents and brother are fairly major characters in the movie, so much so that they get the big fancy credit treatment at the end. I'm usually not the biggest movies need promotion from the stars booster but they definitely would have done better if they could have shown off the chemistry the cast has together.
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Nov 14, 2023 00:55
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muscles like this! posted:Her parents and brother are fairly major characters in the movie, so much so that they get the big fancy credit treatment at the end. Especially since it was so many characters' big screen debut.
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Nov 14, 2023 01:08
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iman just really deserved to have her red carpet moment
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Nov 14, 2023 01:10
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site posted:iman just really deserved to have her red carpet moment Yep. This is what sucks about all of this. She is a good young actor and I hope this doesn't count against her.
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Nov 14, 2023 01:13
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Mr Hootington posted:Yep. This is what sucks about all of this. She is a good young actor and I hope this doesn't count against her. Hopefully this doesn't negatively impact Young Avengers.
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Nov 14, 2023 01:19
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live with fruit posted:Hopefully this doesn't negatively impact Young Avengers.
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Nov 14, 2023 02:08
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I think one issue is that Marvel hasn't really been paying off teases, so it's difficult for people to get excited about. What was the ending of Shang Chi all about? Where was that leading? Blade and Black Knight from Eternals? Nothing. What's next with Spider-Man? Nobody knows. The end of the last Dr. Strange? Is that leading to something or what? Is Thor gonna show up again? It's pretty messy. If I were Marvel I'd move things around to get Spider-Man and the Young Avengers out there quick, along with the X-Men. I do think the Young Avengers is still gonna happen, because they've hired Steinfeld and Newton who are two really great young actresses that are in pretty high demand. Maybe you can add Spider-Man to the mix. But getting a core group of people that audiences know they'll see regularly and not like, once every two or three years is important. Anyway, my take on the box office reception is that it was a mix of a lot of things going against the film and some of it has nothing to do with the quality of the movie but more the timing of the release, and it's nothing to really panic over. Deadpool 3 being next up is perfect for them because that will draw an audience, and hopefully whatever they put out after that will help keep momentum going.
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Nov 14, 2023 02:21
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Marvel has had a very serious problem of previewing or alluding to tons of cool poo poo happening offscreen.
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Nov 14, 2023 02:24
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My concerns with Young Avengers are that Kate's from TV, Kamala's from TV and this huge bomb and Ant-Man, Jr. is also from a poorly received movie. Add in that it apparently will star three women and my lack of trust in Disney to not take the wrong lessons from The Marvels' struggles and I'm a little nervous.
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Nov 14, 2023 02:33
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Codependent Poster posted:I think one issue is that Marvel hasn't really been paying off teases, so it's difficult for people to get excited about. What was the ending of Shang Chi all about? Where was that leading? Blade and Black Knight from Eternals? Nothing. What's next with Spider-Man? Nobody knows. The end of the last Dr. Strange? Is that leading to something or what? Is Thor gonna show up again? It's pretty messy. But yeah I think they've suffered from a total lack of direction during the previous couple of years. A lot of the post-credit teases were for what is ultimately going to be Thunderbolts, but yeah I've never heard what the deal with that Shang-Chi post-credit thing was intended to be.
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Nov 14, 2023 02:35
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STAC Goat posted:I know it’s goons so you’re never gonna have a reasonable conversation without people mocking extreme takes on it. But like it think it’s entirely logical that there’s plenty of assholes in this world who love their power fantasy action films but not when it’s women or nice Pakistani people. Not responding just to you, but there are a million reasons not to see a movie so any justification can work. The question to me is why did Marvels do so much worse than Captain Marvel, and saying "It has a female lead" doesn't really work. "It has Black and Pakistani women" also isn't a great reason when Capt Marvel was lead by Larson and Jackson, you're just talking about highly specific racists at that point, which is weird. Capt Marvel riding off Avengers hype and just not inspiring much loyalty to the character, plus a lack of actor engagement makes some sense to me. Marvels is doing Black Adam numbers right now. But also, it seems like people just aren't watching anything right now. I wonder how WB is feeling about Aquaman 2 coming out soon...
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Nov 14, 2023 02:42
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StumblyWumbly posted:, it seems like people just aren't watching anything right now. This is a good point, too. As bad as the numbers are, it still whipped the poo poo out of anything else that came out this weekend
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Nov 14, 2023 02:51
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Codependent Poster posted:I think one issue is that Marvel hasn't really been paying off teases, so it's difficult for people to get excited about. What was the ending of Shang Chi all about? Where was that leading? Blade and Black Knight from Eternals? Nothing. What's next with Spider-Man? Nobody knows. The end of the last Dr. Strange? Is that leading to something or what? Is Thor gonna show up again? It's pretty messy. Yeah, that's another thing, Disney did a good job of training everyone to not expect anything to get a resolution, so like, why see a specific movie.
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Nov 14, 2023 03:51
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I don't think Marvels not breaking the bank is going to derail any of their storytelling plans, but I do hope they realize that they either need to start paying off the previews put in the movies or just stop doing that and have the movies be their own thing.
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Nov 14, 2023 05:48
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Isn't it also true that Marvel (well, Disney) have been wildly overspending on their movies as well?
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Nov 14, 2023 05:49
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live with fruit posted:My concerns with Young Avengers are that Kate's from TV, Kamala's from TV and this huge bomb and Ant-Man, Jr. is also from a poorly received movie. Add in that it apparently will star three women and my lack of trust in Disney to not take the wrong lessons from The Marvels' struggles and I'm a little nervous. There is nothing stopping them from including other characters in it as well, even if they're in the background. The easiest solution to me though is to include Spider-Man in a Young Avengers project.
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Nov 14, 2023 06:08
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