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pseudanonymous posted:Just left lowes with weather stripping I forgot to pay for because they made me self checkout and it had no bar or sticker for the scanner or anything. Forwarded to tips@fbi.gov
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Nov 12, 2023 02:59
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Detective No. 27 posted:https://twitter.com/neilretail/status/1723467588322378136?s=46&t=uiUehxbkNdNcN0PmfZ4Vaw My local one has: all toothpaste, all deodorant, all mouth wash, all women's hygiene items, and a half dozen other '5-15 dollar' health/hygienic care items all locked up in these big glass cases. When I went recently to buy pads, it took 15 minutes from when I rung the button to when the employee actually got to the products. When I complained to them (while saying that I know it's not their fault), they explained that they had the only set of keys for the doors in the whole store, besides managers, and were unlocking underwear for someone across the entire store. It's just a downright stupid setup. Full on headass idiocy. The Walmart near me doesn't feel the need to lock up this stuff, but you're saying the Target that's in a better, more affluent area does?
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Nov 12, 2023 09:15
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Discendo Vox posted:Structurally speaking, having additional staff wouldn't particularly solve the shoplifting of the products either. fwiw retailers (and, where relevant, brands) know that access restrictions really hurt sales of the product, so it's not something they do for fun or show (though of course they can be incompetent in execution). There are absolutely diminishing returns, but not at the point of a dozen or so people running a hundred thousand square feet of store. The only employees I saw the entire time I was in there were (1) the guy I found 2 aisles over and asked to unlock the door, (2) the geriatric man the first guy called who took 10 minutes to show up at the door, (3) the person running self-checkout, and (4) the person running the Customer Service desk, and I walked the full depth of the store. I needed paint as well, but there were people waiting at the paint desk with no employees visible, so I didn't even try. Comparing this to Publix where I briefly worked LP and there was never allowed to be a situation where less than 3 people had eyes on the registers alone. Even at opening at a store with slow openings, Customer Service started the day with a minimum of five people to make sure. I've seen that waver recently too, but it's reasonable to say that 5 people in a 1k sqft department is above the point of diminishing returns regardless. Home Depot has more and larger doors that are further apart, less camera coverage, and seemingly cannot even consistently hit one person per door in the front lane of the store throughout the day. Once person per door would still be one per ten thousand square feet in the front quarter of most of these stores. That's not just below the point of diminishing returns, it's below the point where anyone can even respond to a theft in any way. Also keep in mind this is Florida, where if human eyes didn't see the theft from picking up the product to walking out the door it's nearly impossible to prosecute and completely impossible to get law enforcement cooperation of any kind unless it's a smash-and-grab or qualifies for grand theft. I'm just as certain that theft is up at Home Depot as I am that the original root cause was self-checkout like it is literally everywhere else and now they're chasing ghosts rather than take it off life support. That didn't bother me before and doesn't now, but it does bother me that the company's idiotic devotion to chasing ghosts is now impacting legitimate customers.
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Nov 12, 2023 11:32
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Also used to work retail and security is usually the first thing that gets cut anytime cuts are to be made (probably true of more than just retail), so I assume Target did that and then were like "whoa how stuff getting stolen more often now, better lock it up!" The lesson management will take from this will be something like "we have to replace security with AI/robots" I'm sure. Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 12:47
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It seems like requiring staff to lock/unlock cabinets every time a customer wants socks or some low-value hygiene product does not jive with wanting to reduce staffing.
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Nov 12, 2023 13:47
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Even when I worked at Walmart electronics a couple decades ago you spent most of your time unlocking poo poo for people and those were expensive items. So locking up everything else is dumb if you don’t wanna hire more people. So let’s say they are actually losing so much money in socks they need to lock them up. I’m sure it would be more cost effective to just pay someone to sit in that aisle all day to help prevent shoplifting than the sales they lose from locking it up. It may come as a shock to some but people are less likely to steal in front of a store employee, which is the exact thing every major retailer will say to you when you’re training for the job.
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Nov 12, 2023 15:48
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At some point if they keep going with the "lock everything up" strategy, they might as well just replace the isles and displays with vending machines, that way they can get rid of the cashiers even faster.
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Nov 12, 2023 17:28
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Discendo Vox posted:Again, it's not clear that staffing would reduce the shoplifting. Tell that to the shoplifters who always waited for our least staffed hours to come in and load up.
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Nov 12, 2023 18:06
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The Home Depot that I most frequently go to is literally only self checkouts, usually only half of them actually open, a f one person at the Pro Desk with an actual register. The last time I was there I needed a locked item, and it took 30 minutes from getting a person to unlock it to the old guy at the front finishing my transaction (at the self check, of course). Contrast with the Menards closest by, which has zero self checks and never has fewer than half a dozen lanes open at the slowest times. Wal-Mart next to where I work has 30 regular checkout lanes, two of the giant self checkout corrals, and the only registers ever open are the self checks. I don't understand why they waste the huge space with checkouts that are never used.
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Nov 12, 2023 18:08
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Professor Beetus posted:Tell that to the shoplifters who always waited for our least staffed hours to come in and load up. Basically, locking everything up is some C-Suite bullshit concocted by people who don't have to do their own shopping and see labor as just another expense to minimize so that the savings go into stock buybacks and executive bonuses.
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Nov 12, 2023 18:35
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PitViper posted:I don't understand why they waste the huge space with checkouts that are never used. I've seen some Targets where the section where there could be more checkout lanes has merchandise instead and it's always full of junk like snacks and gift card racks.
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Nov 12, 2023 18:57
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Discendo Vox posted:Again, it's not clear that staffing would reduce the shoplifting. This is the second time you've, without evidence, asserted this opinion. Do you have any? It seems obviously false.
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Nov 12, 2023 20:32
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pseudanonymous posted:Just left lowes with weather stripping I forgot to pay for because they made me self checkout and it had no bar or sticker for the scanner or anything. Safeway's self checkout used to demand you put your scanned item directly into the bag, it would refuse to do anything else until that happens, and it would know when something is removed from the bag and harass you about it. When you order multiple items from the deli, they would stick multiple items into a bag with multiple bar codes. I was getting away with like 2-3 dollars worth of free food every other trip for a few years, all because of safeway's self-own. They finally got the hint in the last year or two.
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Nov 12, 2023 21:46
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HootTheOwl posted:This is the second time you've, without evidence, asserted this opinion. I'm happy to back off the claim in the face of such resistance, but my understanding is that the shift to access restrictions is in no small part due to settings where the presence of employees has stopped being a deterrent.
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Nov 12, 2023 21:47
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HootTheOwl posted:This is the second time you've, without evidence, asserted this opinion. Have you worked retail? Aint nobody gonna confront someone stealing when theyre paid min wage
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Nov 12, 2023 21:56
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Well, noone normal anyway, some people are cops in spirit and total weirdoes who will, but theyre rare ime
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Nov 12, 2023 21:58
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mandatory lesbian posted:Have you worked retail? Aint nobody gonna confront someone stealing when theyre paid min wage When I worked at GameStop years ago, the DM made us put these 3DS’s on the back counter so they were visible in an effort to sell them faster. One night, a couple of guys came into the store, and they did that thing I’ve seen a lot where one asks me questions at one side of the store to distract the clerk while the other takes poo poo. I knew it was happening. I noticed that two of those 3DS’s were gone after they left. It was an hour before closing time. I didn’t want to deal with calling the police or my DM. gently caress that. I just pretended I was none the wiser. Nothing came of it.
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Nov 12, 2023 22:36
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Discendo Vox posted:Again, it's not clear that staffing would reduce the shoplifting. I mean, it's maybe not clear as in there was a rigorous scientific study proving it, but at the very least it seems quite plausible. I remember the first time I encountered a self checkout lane my reaction was "I guess they assume the savings on paying cashiers will more than make up for the increased shoplifting?" Sure, maybe an employee isn't going to physically grab you if they see you hiding a pair of socks under your jacket, but a lot of people are going to avoid doing it if they think they'll be seen just out of fear or shame. Bremen fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 22:41
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Discendo Vox posted:I'm happy to back off the claim in the face of such resistance, but my understanding is that the shift to access restrictions is in no small part due to settings where the presence of employees has stopped being a deterrent. It’s regional and you may not be seeing it where you live as extreme as some of us are. But in some places labor is still extremely hard to get. A couple of fast food places where I am still are randomly closed about one day a week. Retail and grocery are extremely and visibly lightly staffed. The stores having a problem getting the locked cases installed even more so. Basically one can’t live here or commute to here at what they pay. I’ve been watching how long it takes for things like their drop trailer loads to be unloaded, in the same way I watch how container stacks are doing in the port and how deeply the container vessels are drafting. I’ve also been just outright asking in stores. Edit: I’ve also been taking about it with my dad who is 50+ years in grocery retail. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 23:10
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Bar Ran Dun posted:It’s regional and you may not be seeing it where you live as extreme as some of us are. It begs the question: are they still short staffed because owners want fewer personnel, or due to turnover being so high because they won't pay livable wages, so no one stays?
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Nov 13, 2023 00:17
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Employees were a stock to be minimized. Then the supply chain crisis and pandemic hit. Firms that didn’t retain folks across nearly all business categories had a terrible time restaffing period. Then the amount of labor changed and what labor was willing to do after being asked to work at risk of death changed. Now they don’t understand they can’t staff even to reduced levels unless they pay adequately and treat people like humans.
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Nov 13, 2023 00:31
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mandatory lesbian posted:Have you worked retail? Aint nobody gonna confront someone stealing when theyre paid min wage Yes and usually they just wouldn't do it in front of me
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Nov 13, 2023 00:41
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OneEightHundred posted:I just assume they were just built prior to the move to self-checkout and never removed for whatever reason. Maybe they don't want to get rid of them in case they need them again, and it's not like there's a lot of through traffic through that area so it's not a good place to be selling merchandise out of. I mean it was somewhat rhetorical, as I worked at that store twice briefly in my 20+ years thus far. But I'm constantly amazed how much of a clusterfuck a 150mm+ store is even on weekdays with all these vacant checkouts, which are mostly just piled full of crap that they don't have the staff to stock where it belongs. Not really related to the collapse of retail except to highlight the disconnect of the C-levels from the day to day, but apparently the CFO of our billions-dollar annual company has decreed that our tire shops are too messy and need to ensure all our stock is properly stored in the racks. Except we literally just ran a giant sale, and thus every store is sitting on at least 5-6 weeks worth of work that was delivered in the last 7 days. Even if I wanted to and had the time, I physically do not have the space to rack all the merch that we have in. Every year prior to this we've just stacked them up on our flex floor area sorted by install dates, but this apparently very highly compensated and thoroughly bored man has made it his mission this year to gently caress around with low-level operations instead of letting it be for the next 4-5 weeks while the backlog clears. Our store manager generally just lets us manage our area without worry, because we're always problem free. But he's pulling his hair out because people way up the corporate ladder are apparently out of things to distract themselves with and are loving with store level ops that they don't seem to understand.
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Nov 13, 2023 01:27
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HootTheOwl posted:Yes and usually they just wouldn't do it in front of me Well, i cant help if you give off snitch vibes, maybe look at yourself for your problems
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Nov 13, 2023 02:12
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cat botherer posted:It seems like requiring staff to lock/unlock cabinets every time a customer wants socks or some low-value hygiene product does not jive with wanting to reduce staffing. It's not about reducing staffing. It's about closing stores in places/markets where they feel they can't raise prices. It's reverse gentrification. When they install that poo poo it's a signal to anyone who can go to another location that they should go to another location. You see this a lot in Chicago. Stores in "black areas," have poo poo locked up. Store a half mile down the road, same chain, doesn't. Actual stores with competitive prices that exist to serve customers in that same "black area," also aren't locking poo poo up. It's not about shrink, not about staffing. It's large chains negging their customers to go to the more affluent location up the road where they can raise prices more due to weeding out customers that can't travel as far. They can't just close a store that's doing good business. That would look weird. So they do this thing where they slowly turn the store into a prison until sales volume and profit dwindles enough that they have an excuse to close the store, sit on the lot as real estate, and then flip later. If you're a large retailer in the US at this point, there are no volume plays. You've basically maxed out. The transactions are the transactions. So what happens when a large retailer maxes out volume is they start heading the other way toward maximizing per-transaction profit. So they start trying to do these gambits where they take out the stores in the places where customers are getting the best value. These are otherwise profitable stores, and so they need an excuse. The recent acceptable excuse is shrink, and it turns out the retailers control shrink. So there's a predictable cycle of self-checkout to increase shrink leading to poo poo locked in cases leading to store closures. Voila, all the stores in affluent areas that can handle price hikes stay open while the ones that actually serve communities get axed. ErIog fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Nov 13, 2023 |
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Nov 13, 2023 03:27
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Why wouldn't they just raise prices?
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Nov 13, 2023 03:45
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Discendo Vox posted:Why wouldn't they just raise prices? There is a large variation on many items from stores in rich areas to stores in poor areas between the same store. From one qfc to another within 30 miles of each other prices on single items can be up to 200% higher in the richer area. I think prices are being set by algorithms based on pos data at the per store level.
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Nov 13, 2023 04:29
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Bar Ran Dun posted:There is a large variation on many items from stores in rich areas to stores in poor areas between the same store. From one qfc to another within 30 miles of each other prices on single items can be up to 200% higher in the richer area. So then regional managers try to maximize their bottom line with the only variables they can control, while top level management doesn't realize what's up and that they need to either unfuck their algorithm or murder the regional managers because they're disconnected from the tactical picture? Is that about right?
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Nov 13, 2023 04:43
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That’s what I don’t know. There could be other things at play. Here’s an example of that, these stores sometimes sell shelf space. The big food conglomerates will buy guaranteed space to push out competitors. In some cases they even do the stocking, my dad used to moonlight doing that. Full day at the store then stocking for one of the big food companies in the same store. Product stocked that way the big food manufacturers could be (i know are for particular things) setting prices via their own algorithms. They tell the grocery chain when sales are, for what prices etc. The grocery chain may not even have a choice! It might be other bigger companies forcing the situation on then to some degree.
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Nov 13, 2023 07:08
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Seems like it would be trivially easy for the c-suite to alter or disregard any algorithm if they wantt to raise prices - they implemented it in the first place. Instead opting for an elaborate scheme to slowly kill sales at some stores so you can eventually close them when they become unprofitable would require a lot more explanation to shareholders than just saying "We closed location x because that will drive higher sales at location y which overall will result in higher profits." It's not at all clear why they would feel the need to make up excuses or would care if it looks weird.
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Nov 13, 2023 07:12
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Again not if coke or Pepsi or nestle or etc is actually the price setter by contract.
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Nov 13, 2023 07:17
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Also the entire point of handing over pricing to an algorithm is that the computer takes the blame. The public isn't smart enough, generally, to recognize that algos are designed and may have a purpose other than what you'd think. Pushing off the thinking onto the computer means the C-suite can wash their hands of it entirely in the public eye, even though it makes it even more their actual fault.
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Nov 13, 2023 09:56
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mandatory lesbian posted:Have you worked retail? Aint nobody gonna confront someone stealing when theyre paid min wage This has been my attitude about it, but since the mid 10's or so, most major retailers and similar businesses have adopted non-interference as a policy.
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Nov 13, 2023 19:03
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Freakazoid_ posted:This has been my attitude about it, but since the mid 10's or so, most major retailers and similar businesses have adopted non-interference as a policy. you're tellin me you haven't encountered any retail workers in the past 4 years willing to die for their respective company? willing to commit a multiple Felonies for their Company? get outa here.....
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Nov 13, 2023 19:10
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Owling Howl posted:Seems like it would be trivially easy for the c-suite to alter or disregard any algorithm if they wantt to raise prices - they implemented it in the first place. What I was trying to get at was that the C-suite may be sufficiently out of touch that they're at cross purposes with regional or store managers and don't know it. It happens sometimes, like when the Sears CEO set up departments to compete with each other, not realizing that incentivized sabotage rather than just maximizing sales. Basically, if stores are being set up to fail, it's not a given senior leadership knows about it. At the very least, we know there's some kind of dysfunction because stores are locking up underwear, so we can't assume everyone knows what they should.
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Nov 13, 2023 20:59
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Blue Footed Booby posted:What I was trying to get at was that the C-suite may be sufficiently out of touch that they're at cross purposes with regional or store managers and don't know it. It happens sometimes, like when the Sears CEO set up departments to compete with each other, not realizing that incentivized sabotage rather than just maximizing sales. https://www.institutionalinvestor.c...llars-or-did-he
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Nov 13, 2023 23:31
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Discendo Vox posted:Why wouldn't they just raise prices? Large businesses want to pick their customers, and it's more efficient to take out the bottom tier of the transactions rather than try to foist price hikes evenly on the entire customer base. Netflix did this a year ago with the password sharing policy change. They saturated their market with lower prices to get people in the door. Now with everyone in the door, they want the customers who are willing to pay more to stay. This allows them to hike their prices substantially more in the long term while reducing overhead serving people who can't pay as much. It isn't a very good business decision, but it sounds amazing to investors. On the way up, every company wants to make volume plays like Google or Microsoft. Once they reach their goals they want to pivot to being Apple, even if it means the business dies long term. No C-suite rear end in a top hat ever got punished for chasing profit too doggedly. Investors will accept the death of a company through chasing profit. They will not accept consistent solid returns with nonexistent growth. This is why no good retailer and no good service can exist long term in the US. You get these boom/bust cycles with absurdly low prices to corner markets on the way up that then get followed by more and more desperate attempts to squeeze consumers on the way down. Very very few companies are content to put up with the overhead that saturation and volume provides. The companies that do persist tend to be in oligolopoly positions in the market where the price-fixing gives them freedom to do this. US cell phone carriers are like this. There's a consistent boom/bust cycle with MVNO's where they either go out of business or get folded into the main company. The MVNO's manage all the overhead of maintaining the service, and then the cell phone carriers get to onboard the customers they think have potential to be upsold. They're filtering customers. For brick and mortar retailers you can't filter the customers the same way. You need to get the least profitable stores to close, and the current mechanism for doing that is making them a terrible experience for consumers. They want you to drive half a mile up the road to pay 20 cents more at a different location. They don't want you to buy the poo poo locked up in the cases. They can't raise prices on that poo poo locked up in the cases because they have price competition in that location. They have less price competition up the road. ErIog fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Nov 14, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 03:37
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I had pushed into my face via YouTube recently a video about a target in NY state that was closed 'due to constant theft'. I didn't even watch the video; the comments were bad enough. I assume that the video was either utterly staged or microcosm footage of bold thefts at other stores that Target is using to play the wounded party while they close stores for cynical reasons similar to those mentioned in this thread. What's sad is not that an insanely profitable corp worth billions would do this, it's that other people are buying it. Even in the era of burning planet, mega-corps and rampant avoidable poverty, people still blame the poor.
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Nov 14, 2023 04:31
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cat botherer posted:Running Sears into the ground actually worked out quite well for Eddie Lampert: Yeah. It just didn't work out for Sears or anybody who worked there.
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Nov 14, 2023 04:33
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at the kroger here they walled off a bunch of dissimilar items that are theft prone into a sort of redoubt with the shelves arranged to make it so there's only one way into it. batteries, deodorant, cosmetics, detergent. at first they would make you buy your stuff from there at a register located at the entrance to the anti-theft fortress but i guess they got sick of dealing with that so now they just have a disinterested clerk at the entrance to scare you into not stealing.
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