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Dawgstar posted:Isn't it also true that Marvel (well, Disney) have been wildly overspending on their movies as well? Their recent movies have all been very expensive, but it's not clear how much of it was "overspending" vs. just expensive. Several of the D+ shows have been wildly overspending because they have had to remake the shows multiple times (Secret Invasion and She-Hulk) and spent $220 million basically making a $90 million show 3 times before releasing it.
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Nov 14, 2023 06:08
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Codependent Poster posted:There is nothing stopping them from including other characters in it as well, even if they're in the background. No one knows that Spider-Man is young, though.
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Nov 14, 2023 06:26
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Also a film straight up called "Young Avengers" isn't going to get butts in seats. It sounds like it's Tiny Toons or Lego Batman or something.
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Nov 14, 2023 09:00
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Avengers: The New Batch
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Nov 14, 2023 09:03
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kiminewt posted:Also a film straight up called "Young Avengers" isn't going to get butts in seats. It sounds like it's Tiny Toons or Lego Batman or something. People loved Tiny Toons and Lego Batman.
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Nov 14, 2023 09:04
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No one's saying it will be called Young Avengers, we know it will just be another "Avengers: Subtitle" movie. We're just using Young Avengers as a shorthand for the newer, younger team (who are all gonna be in their thirties or forties by the time it happens). Even the direct to video cartoon (remember those Ultimate Avengers cartoons?) was just called Next Avengers 
Assepoester fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Nov 14, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 09:47
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The real issue is the pacing of individual character appearances. Take Steve Rogers Cap: First Avenger (which improves with age and every rewatch) 2011 Avengers 2012 Winter Soldier 2014 Age of Ultron 2015 Civil War 2016 Infinity War 2018 Endgame 2019 Hell, you can even throw in the cameos in The Dark World and Homecoming to fill the gaps and have Steve Rogers appearing in a film every single year from 2011 - 2019 inclusive. But even without those it's a tight schedule with a strong focus on Captain America as he goes from scrawny kid who wants to go fight nazis, to leader of the Avengers, to a man standing alone against the most powerful being in the universe. Then he gets his perfect ending and steps aside for other characters to have their turn in the limelight. 6 movies, plus 2 cameos, in 8 years. Now take a look at Sam Wilson Cap: Endgame to get the shield 2019 Falcon and Winter Soldier 2021 Cap movie 4 2024 Okay, there's a pandemic and a writer's strike in there, but this is one of the biggest characters and the first big "passing of the mantle" storylines but 5 years from getting the shield to his own movie? Oof. It doesn't help that his first appearance was in 2014 in Winter Soldier, so he's already spent one extra year than Chris Evans on the MCU payroll, and by the time his film comes out it'll be a decade. The clock is ticking on how long he can play the role, and how long he will even want to play the role. Maybe it would feel different if FatWS was a movie, and Cap 4 was basically the next Avengers film with Sam Wilson assembling a new team. I do feel that as well as making sure there's a sense of pacing for when these new characters reappear, they have some idea of how and when those characters will bow out of the MCU. You can't kill them all off, heroically. They can't realistically retire if they're too young. But every character needs to have some kind of end point to work towards otherwise every film is just like with Quantumania, where I guess Ant Man can come back for another film, or an Avengers team-up, but also... isn't he kind of old as poo poo now and maybe should have been allowed to hang up his Pym Particles and move on? It's a limbo where we're not done, but that's either good or bad depending on if they ever do anything else with it. Ditto Love and Thunder where Hemsworth is spinning his wheels and it doesn't exactly feel like he's been given a place to end Thor's story if he decides it's time to move on, but also the movie didn't really advance his character very much either. The only new characters who are meeting the old schedule so far are Ms Marvel, Yelena, and [recent movie cameo]. I'd argue Spidey has been used at just the right level of pacing for a young character (and the 5 year snap keeping him young works nicely), but as pointed out he's now in limbo for a while so not sure when he's coming back. I'm guessing the ideal situation would be him getting a second trilogy, being a Young Avengers leader in one film, co-lead with Cap in the regular Avengers big brawls, and his final solo film would be introducing Miles Morales for a handover post-Endgame 2.0 to the new younger Spidey who retires into a happy ending of his own.
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Nov 14, 2023 10:20
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The Hollywood Reporter says that Marvel is "taking stock" after the financial failure of The Marvels and planning a significantly reorganized strategy going forward. - Only 1 movie release next year (this was already likely the plan due to the strikes, but it is now confirmed that nothing but Deadpool 3 will release next year) - Deadpool 3 delayed again to July 26th. - Captain America 4 delayed for 9 months from the original release date to February 14th, 2025. - Thunderbolts delayed again for another 6 months to July 25, 2025. - Blade delayed another 9 months to Nov. 7, 2025. - May pare down theatrical releases to 1 or 2 per year after 2025. - De-prioritization of Disney+ shows and their connection to the movies. - Feige and his team are doing a thorough review of all the major tentpole releases, will return to Feige directly overseeing all major projects, and will delay them if Feige and his team haven't had time to go over them sufficiently before release. - No plans for major changes to the Avengers movies (except for likely additional delays). Deadpool 3 is supposed to be the first set up movie for Secret Wars and the studio considers it a "marquee title" and described it as "a multi-verse spanning feature that will set the stage for upcoming Avengers movies." https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/marvel-studios-rethinks-movie-strategy-marvels-1235645119/ Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Nov 14, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 15:55
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I'd prefer 2-3 movies a year, but I guess a big summer and then a winter marvel film is good enough.
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Nov 14, 2023 16:06
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Yeah I personally wouldn't call them Young Avengers as a movie title or anything. I'd go with New Avengers or just leave it as Avengers.
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Nov 14, 2023 16:47
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Just wait until they call Thunderbolts 2 “Dark Avengers”
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Nov 14, 2023 17:11
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One movie a year is a bad idea. Especially if they are axing or minimizing the Disney+ shows. You need to keep the brand relevant.
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Nov 14, 2023 17:16
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All the young avengers will be in their 30s by the time they start that poo poo lol
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Nov 14, 2023 17:16
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Younger Avengers.
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Nov 14, 2023 17:23
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FlamingLiberal posted:One movie a year is a bad idea. Especially if they are axing or minimizing the Disney+ shows. You need to keep the brand relevant. I don't think the number in a given year is as big of a deal as slowing things down so much it takes forever to get to the end of any "saga" and that the Avengers movies are effectively gone.
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Nov 14, 2023 17:37
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Young Adult Avengers
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Nov 14, 2023 17:43
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The Kang dynasty sure is gonna be weird pacing wise when it consists of Loki s1 and 2, quantumania, a 5 year gap, and then the avengers movie
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Nov 14, 2023 17:44
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site posted:The Kang dynasty sure is gonna be weird pacing wise when it consists of Loki s1 and 2, quantumania, a 5 year gap, and then the avengers movie Deadpool 3 and Fantastic 4 (probably) will also partially fill in the gap. They also have some unannounced slots that will probably fill it in. But, as of now, there is a ~2.5 year gap between the next scheduled movie involving Kang and The Kang Dynasty.
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Nov 14, 2023 17:55
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Has there been any negatives about Feige being in charge until now?
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Nov 14, 2023 17:59
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Has there been any negatives about Feige being in charge until now? We don't really know from a viewer's perspective. Some of the outside staff were not happy about parts of it. Some writers and directors complained back in the day because he had basically sketched out script drafts and pre-directed fight choreography before they were even hired and had final say over any creative changes to the movies, so they felt like he was cramping their freedom a little because he would tell them they can't use X since they have plans, would watch all of the weeklies and send notes, etc. On the other hand, Sam Raimi said he loved working on a Marvel movie because he basically had an infinite budget, never had to fight about getting resources, and most of the day-to-day stuff was taken care of by Feige and the producers, so he could just focus on directing. If you are a director who is used to being the big boss on your movies and having final creative say, then it sounds like you wouldn't like parts of it. As a viewer?  Not sure how much of the specific Feige influence was critical to enjoying the stuff. After No Way Home, he was split in too many directions and had deputies and directors take the reins on a lot of projects, so anything after Spider-Man: No Way Home is arguably the "anti-Feige" period. "It feels similar" could be a negative for the viewers. Chloe Zhao really did have mostly free rein on The Eternals and it legitimately was a different looking and feeling Marvel movie (in good and bad ways). All the TV shows have very different feels from each other (also in good and bad ways). Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Nov 14, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 18:02
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Deadpool 3 and Fantastic 4 (probably) will also partially fill in the gap. lol at thinking ff or the avengers movies are actually gonna come out on their original scheduled dates
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Nov 14, 2023 18:06
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site posted:lol at thinking ff or the avengers movies are actually gonna come out on their original scheduled dates They aren't, but I'm assuming they are all bumped back a roughly equal amount of time.
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Nov 14, 2023 18:07
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It definitely felt like some directors had more free rein then others. When watching Guardians you could tell "this is a Gunn movie". For others though the directors felt fairly interchangeable for what was presented on the screen. This buys into the idea that a director like Raimi could be given more leeway because it's Sam Raimi but some new director is going to get a lot more studio notes. I guess the biggest clash of this was Edgar Wright's Antman where Wright probably should have been given as much freedom as he wanted and the studio wanted to control the vision way too much. As for one movie a year probably Disney feeling like they diluted the brand too much and hoping to go back to having the movies be big events that people look forward to.
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Nov 14, 2023 18:47
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:- De-prioritization of Disney+ shows and their connection to the movies. This is unfortunate considering that many of the Disney+ shows are among the best stuff in Phase 4/5. WandaVision, Loki, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Werewolf By Night have all been excellent while also trying something different. It really feels like the shows are getting unfairly scapegoated for their recent string of stinker movies.
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Nov 14, 2023 18:57
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Taikia Waititi says he won't be involved in Thor 5. He also says he has no idea if the rumors about Thor 5 happening with a new director are true because he has no idea if Thor 5 is actually happening, but he can confirm that he won't be involved. He says he would absolutely come back for another Thor movie in the future, but not until at least 2029 because he is booked for projects until then. https://variety.com/2023/film/news/taika-waititi-not-involved-thor-5-marvel-hire-another-director-1235790314/
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Nov 14, 2023 18:58
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iceyman posted:This is unfortunate considering that many of the Disney+ shows are among the best stuff in Phase 4/5. WandaVision, Loki, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Werewolf By Night have all been excellent while also trying something different. It really feels like the shows are getting unfairly scapegoated for their recent string of stinker movies. They already announced that they were slowing down on the output of D+ shows. I think the main change here is just that they want to make the TV shows more standalone (hence the recent creation of the "Marvel Spotlight" tag to let you know that the show is completely standalone and you won't have to have any knowledge of the movies to get it) and less tied into the movies. Seems like they are basically doing what they did back in phase 2, which was separate out Marvel Studios from Marvel TV, even though they were originally planned to be linked.
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Nov 14, 2023 19:00
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Parkingtigers posted:The real issue is the pacing of individual character appearances... To add to this, after the first Avengers movie, all of the characters who were introduced in their own movie had some connection to the pre-established world. The Guardians had Thanos and the stones, Hank worked for SHIELD and Sam showed up in Ant-Man, Doctor Strange had a stone and Fury was prominently in Captain Marvel. Now we've got the Eternals, Moon Knight and Werewolf By Night with no connection and Shang-Chi with a tenuous one. It's hard to tell for even hardcore fans to tell where this is going so it's harder to care.
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Nov 14, 2023 19:01
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live with fruit posted:To add to this, after the first Avengers movie, all of the characters who were introduced in their own movie had some connection to the pre-established world. The Guardians had Thanos and the stones, Hank worked for SHIELD and Sam showed up in Ant-Man, Doctor Strange had a stone and Fury was prominently in Captain Marvel. Now we've got the Eternals, Moon Knight and Werewolf By Night with no connection and Shang-Chi with a tenuous one. It's hard to tell for even hardcore fans to tell where this is going so it's harder to care. Falcon was introduced in The Winter Soldier and not Ant-Man. That whole sequence of post Avengers to Infinity War also took 6 years to happen. Phase 4 + 5 has only been about 3 years (and that includes a lot of delays due to Covid). The main problem with The Avengers is that there are no Avengers anymore. They are all dead or not coming back for other reasons. They are having to essentially make an entirely new bench. The only living original Avengers are: - Hulk - Thor Original people who are still around that aren't Avengers, but technically show up in Avengers movies: - Dr. Strange - Captain Marvel - Ant-Man "Maybes" that still technically exist, but have been temporarily written out of the current story arc: - Vision - Spider-Man
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Nov 14, 2023 19:15
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Sam shows up in Ant-Man though.
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Nov 14, 2023 19:17
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Falcon was introduced in The Winter Soldier and not Ant-Man. Yes, exactly. Ant-Man was introduced in Ant-Man and Sam was there to help tie him into the universe.
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Nov 14, 2023 19:17
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I don’t think Steve Rogers is canonically dead but maybe I missed it? Also Hawkeye is still alive
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Nov 14, 2023 19:47
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don’t think Steve Rogers is canonically dead but maybe I missed it? He's living on the moon.
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Nov 14, 2023 19:50
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don’t think Steve Rogers is canonically dead but maybe I missed it? They mention that he is "gone" in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Assumed to mean dead. Hawkeye is still alive, but his character retired and Jeremy Renner is not shooting a movie any time soon after being run over by a snow plough.
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Nov 14, 2023 19:53
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:They already announced that they were slowing down on the output of D+ shows. I think the main change here is just that they want to make the TV shows more standalone (hence the recent creation of the "Marvel Spotlight" tag to let you know that the show is completely standalone and you won't have to have any knowledge of the movies to get it) and less tied into the movies. Phase 2 TV connections were so tenuous as to be ultimately superfluous and inconsequential. I don't want TV to be required reading for the movies, but I would much rather a step up from Phase 2 somehow. In Phase 2, we had no hope of say Quake or Daredevil making an the smallest appearance in the Avengers movie. But I hope that is still a possibility now and they at least build on the connections between the TV shows. I still want to see Khamala and Jennifer on the big screen. But something like Moon Knight on the other hand suffered from it's isolation from everything else IMHO. It was fine, but it feels ultimately ignored and memory holed.
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Nov 14, 2023 20:23
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iceyman posted:Phase 2 TV connections were so tenuous as to be ultimately superfluous and inconsequential. That is why that was a change. AoS was originally supposed to be an ongoing thing that was constantly impacted directly by events in the main movies and had events in the show that would impact the movies, but they gave up by phase 2 and separated Marvel Studios and Marvel TV into two different organizations that did their own thing.
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Nov 14, 2023 20:26
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That whole sequence of post Avengers to Infinity War also took 6 years to happen. Phase 4 + 5 has only been about 3 years (and that includes a lot of delays due to Covid). Yes, but that 6 years included another Avengers film, an Ant Man solo film, Iron Man 3, a Cap film that introduced Black Panther and Spidey and included... well, everyone, a Doctor Strange solo film, a Spidey solo film (with Cap cameo), a Black Panther solo film, Thor 3 which had a Doc Strange cameo, and THEN Infinity War which tied all of that stuff together. 6 years looks like a long time, but pretty much everyone got multiple appearances to keep them relevant and remembered, and you only had to watch 3 movies a year. It's the period where I went full MCU fanboy because I got 3 guaranteed good times a year in an every increasing tapesty of connected stories. Not gonna lie, it was kind a magical period. I'm actually going to be sad if they cut back on the D+ shows, because I've liked or loved most of those (only Secret Invasion is an absolute turd, and I dislike parts of otherwise good shows). They're not to blame for a bunch of the recent films not being actually any good. I think the Civil War approach worked best. Drop the new characters in as part of an existing movie, then do their solo story afterwards. The Ant Man/Strange route of a solo flick then guest appearance worked well too. It's clear the worst way of doing things is D+ series debut and then a movie team-up. Ms. Marvel was the best of the D+ series, but viewing figures showed not enough people know that. To suddenly drop her into a film alongside another character who debuted in someone else's D+ series... But that's two separate issues here. First, that recent films have included a bunch of 2/5 borderline stinkers. Second, that the "required viewing" including D+ shows is finally becoming an issue. I think The Marvels stands alone enough for people to just go back and watch the shows after, if they want, but I can see how even that would annoy some casuals. MoM was absolutely a case (the first one) of you NEED to watch a D+ show for any of this to make any sense.
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Nov 14, 2023 20:50
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:They mention that he is "gone" in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Assumed to mean dead. I always assumed they just considered him dead (and probably the Official Report of Endgame says he is dead to the world) so no one would bother the old man.
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Nov 14, 2023 21:58
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Congress getting involved in the Wile E. Coyote situation. https://twitter.com/THR/status/1724533156580381120
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Nov 14, 2023 22:04
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:
So basically...go back to the Agents of Shield and Netflix-verse model.
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Nov 14, 2023 22:16
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Congress getting involved in the Wile E. Coyote situation. About goddamn time. His antics have gone on for far too long.
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