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My favorite thing about FFXIV is if you say anything negative about it, people come out like you personally attacked them. Josh Strife Hayes put it as the most toxic community in terms of making videos only because more people play it so more people are likely to respond.
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Nov 14, 2023 04:15
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cmdrk posted:my casual indiedev dream is to build an EQ-like in a completely different non-fantasy setting. like spaceships but eq mechanics with painfully forced scifi for things like mez, fear, etc You could call it, "Anarchy Online".
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Nov 14, 2023 04:41
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Sachant posted:You could call it, "Anarchy Online". 
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Nov 14, 2023 05:19
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Third World Reagan posted:My favorite thing about FFXIV is if you say anything negative about it, people come out like you personally attacked them. FFXIV is the easiest game to have opinions on because it's the easiest game to reach bare minimum for participation on, while also having such an insane timesink to get to that point that people feel personally invested in something that isn't really an achievement. I quit XIV pretty much for good when I finally learned that visible stats are basically a lie and ilvl scaling overrides everything. They still manage to dumb things down even more each expansion. Pretty sure armor won't even have names soon, it'll just be the ilvl written at the top. Ranzear fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Nov 14, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 06:06
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Sachant posted:You could call it, "Anarchy Online". Funcom kinda hosed it up but yeah AO very good Frog Act posted:I think things like forced group grinding, hostile worlds, a sense of exploration and distinct factions, etc can be achieved a with less punishing permutation of those things. Like less crippling EXP loss or maybe not losing equipment/inventory, scribing and memming is retained but spells are made a little cheaper and more accessible, etc The XP loss really isn't crippling and once it starts being more than a 30 minute setback you get access to resurrection spells which cancel >90% of it. Did everyone forget about rezzing or something all of a sudden? The only thing I'd change is giving more classes than necros paladins and clerics access to it in a new game. Losing inventory is the only thing which makes corpse runs interesting, and spells are the caster version of gear, that 4 intelligence on your belt doesn't matter but the exclusive spell you're questing for is basically your version of the warrior's big sword I really do not understand people who want it to be an assumption that a caster at X level knows every spell available to the class at that level. They shouldn't. Spells are yours to keep and use forever, they can set you apart, if you're a caster they're your version of an important item or piece of armor or something. The moment you make spells cheap and purchased at a vendor or trainer like in WoW you might as well just automatically let people unlock them once of level, which is what WoW ended up doing eventually. Give people the tools to be functional, but absolutely lock things behind traveling to obscure places, killing big mobs, etc
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Nov 14, 2023 07:34
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The monsters and memories guys at one point talked about casters losing their spellbook when they died, in the sense that it would be a physical item in the corpse. That’d would be brutal unless there were some sort of spells that you innately knew. Not sure if they still plan to do that or not at this point though.
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Nov 14, 2023 07:50
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You can keep spare spellbooks at the bank or stashed, and that would be great actually. Keep in mind that casters and priests in classic eq are the only people allowed access to easy combat tools after dying, as a melee you’re doing that corpse run naked
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Nov 14, 2023 07:56
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Mustang posted:I don't really understand modern MMO's where everyone seemingly just spends their time soloing or jumping into a LFG queue and bouncing onces it's done, never to be seen again. like i said i get not enjoying that just saying that ive never felt like 'oh everyone around me is just a nameless ghost,' ive talked to cool people in FF14.
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Nov 14, 2023 08:53
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Mustang posted:Don't know anything about LOTRO. LotrO is a game where the world design is the best I"ve ever seen in an online game, its just phenomenal. The quests are extremely well written if you bother to read any and generally if you are a tolkien buff you're gonna love everything about the world. But, and theres your big but, the combat gameplay is extremely bland no matter what class you play. There's also a feeling that the whole game is a big safe place, and you're just there to hug hobbits and go to festivals. It just doesn't "feel adventurous" at all, if that makes sense.
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Nov 14, 2023 10:32
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Ranzear posted:I quit XIV pretty much for good when I finally learned that visible stats are basically a lie and ilvl scaling overrides everything. They still manage to dumb things down even more each expansion. Pretty sure armor won't even have names soon, it'll just be the ilvl written at the top. Yeah ff14 isn't perfect in any way but this confuses me. The stats do totally matter in high end content? For example there is a noticeable and significant difference between the gameplay of a max spell speed blm and a crit one, and even for synced content I just put together a set of lower ilvl spell speed gear for going summoner in old ultimates instead of using my max ilvl crit gear because that demonstrably affects my DPS output. Granted this stuff is mathed out to hell and back so there's not too many options if you want to be "optimal" but I wouldn't say substats are cosmetic. Sure they don't matter if you only do casual content but then why would you care about stat optimization?
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Nov 14, 2023 11:52
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Mr. Pickles posted:LotrO is a game where the world design is the best I"ve ever seen in an online game, its just phenomenal. The quests are extremely well written if you bother to read any and generally if you are a tolkien buff you're gonna love everything about the world. Removing combat and adding more pie deliveries/hobbit hugs would only improve the game
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Nov 14, 2023 12:01
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My first car was a stick
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if you want gear for properties or stats instead of nebulous item levels, d&d online is right there technically not a mmo, but it's a great co-op dungeon crawler where you'll have 4 out of 5 bags in your inventory constantly full of trinkets and weapons crafted for beating on very specific things lol
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Nov 14, 2023 13:11
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bandaid.friend posted:Removing combat and adding more pie deliveries/hobbit hugs would only improve the game This is true on oh so many levels. Gearing every 10 levels and killing 1000s upon 1000s of mobs just isn't fun in LotrO >.<
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Nov 14, 2023 13:31
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I love lotro but yes, a pass through to reduce the number of fetch quests and “kill 10 gobbos” would help a lot. The epic quests are mostly fun and some of the regional main quests are good but there’s too much filler. They made a new starting area recently and it also has a ton of this bullshit so I don’t see it going away any time soon. A new expansion set in Umbar with a bunch of pirate and nautical stuff just came out. Gonna dive in soon.
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Nov 14, 2023 14:55
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Truga posted:if you want gear for properties or stats instead of nebulous item levels, d&d online is right there D&D online has genuinely cool itemization
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Nov 14, 2023 15:28
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an iksar marauder posted:I really do not understand people who want it to be an assumption that a caster at X level knows every spell available to the class at that level. They shouldn't. Spells are yours to keep and use forever, they can set you apart, if you're a caster they're your version of an important item or piece of armor or something. The moment you make spells cheap and purchased at a vendor or trainer like in WoW you might as well just automatically let people unlock them once of level, which is what WoW ended up doing eventually. I like it when games treat spells basically like weapons are for melee. Finding better, rarer spells makes you more powerful. If a game has "your items are left on your corpse", then the spellbook being left behind as well makes sense. Re: xp loss, it's just demotivating. Yeah, later it doesn't matter. Early on in a game it can be a real downer is all. And I think de-leveling should just be impossible. Mr. Pickles posted:It just doesn't "feel adventurous" at all, if that makes sense. I agree with everything else you said, but I'd really disagree here - there's lots of adventurous questing in LOTRO. Don't get me wrong, there's lots of stuff that is easy mode. The vast majority is (unless you use the new landscape difficulty thing). But The Old Forest, the trail going up the Misty Mountains, Goblin Town, a lot of Moria, Morgul Value, parts of Mordor, Shelob's cave...lots of areas gave a huge sense of adventure for me. Those are just spots off the top of my head.
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Nov 14, 2023 17:19
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bandaid.friend posted:Removing combat and adding more pie deliveries/hobbit hugs would only improve the game This, except keep combat exclusively for the Minstrel class that attacks by shredding sick riffs
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Nov 14, 2023 17:19
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xZAOx posted:I agree with everything else you said, but I'd really disagree here - there's lots of adventurous questing in LOTRO. Don't get me wrong, there's lots of stuff that is easy mode. The vast majority is (unless you use the new landscape difficulty thing). But The Old Forest, the trail going up the Misty Mountains, Goblin Town, a lot of Moria, Morgul Value, parts of Mordor, Shelob's cave...lots of areas gave a huge sense of adventure for me. Those are just spots off the top of my head. Yeah I'd agree with this. There are definitely some spots in the overworld that feel hidden or tricky to navigate or are full of dangerous mobs that you have to think about. I really loved running around and questing in the game, the only thing that turned me off is that everyone races through dungeons (like every other MMO). Dungeons often have sections that are heavily scripted and are the culmination of a 10+ quest long chain, but if you're a new player you end up missing a lot of story because the folks in your group will have been playing it for 16 years and they won't wait around. The difficulty you apply in the overworld also doesn't apply in dungeons (iirc), so you end up steamrolling content. That all being said, it's still worth some time imo. It has a great community and at its core it's still a fun game, especially if you love the LoTR universe. The game is absolutely worth playing on the highest difficulty level you can tolerate. Unless they've changed it from when they first launched the difficulty update, the absolute top difficulty level should be avoided because it's basically just the previous difficulty tier + "Sauron will now call in an orbital strike on your character randomly every few minutes/seconds, and put a dumb debuff on you that makes your screen all hazy unless you disable post processing." The next level down makes mobs more dangerous without adding that sort of dumb poo poo. kedo fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Nov 14, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 17:46
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xZAOx posted:I like it when games treat spells basically like weapons are for melee. Finding better, rarer spells makes you more powerful. If a game has "your items are left on your corpse", then the spellbook being left behind as well makes sense. Same, I really like this. It's incredibly lame imo for melee characters to have varied weapon/gear selections while casters all just know the same spells For XP loss, I'd prefer it if that stuff was limited to particularly dangerous zones or monsters, like a risk reward thing. But I don't mind it, and it makes people more dependent on each other
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Nov 14, 2023 18:00
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Outside of playing p99 the only game that captured that EQ feel was Elden Ring when I found that really early trap that teleports you to Caelid before I got my horse and didn't know you could use the map to teleport. I worked my way about halfway back to the beginning of the game before I accidentally scrolled over the first site of grace and saw the teleport prompt. It ruled.
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Nov 14, 2023 20:13
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I am glad no one talks about daoc
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Nov 14, 2023 22:11
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I only played it a couple of months at release. I got the mid 20s or 30s or something and lost interest.
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Nov 14, 2023 22:40
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Xun posted:Yeah ff14 isn't perfect in any way but this confuses me. The stats do totally matter in high end content? Maybe they walked it back a bit since. Felt like Shadowbringers had basically none of that going on. Every piece in that era was already capped on stats that mattered™ but I was mostly in the tank space which might just be braindead by design. But you did say it yourself: Stat differences were/are mostly meaningful when ilvl is fixed. Ranzear fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Nov 15, 2023 |
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Nov 15, 2023 01:27
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I think it depends on whether Stats Mattering means "it's possible to put something together that works better" or "it's possible to put something together that doesn't work". FF14 tries hard to avoid the second, and while it's possible to do the first it's usually not something you're going to notice unless you pull out a dps meter or are intentionally hitting extremes. "Get enough skill speed that you can fit another use of this into the buff window" might be a better effect, but you're never going to feel that during play.
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Nov 15, 2023 02:05
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"Works better" was certainly my expectation. There is no excelling in XIV just by making gear choices and pressing buttons. Someone with marginally higher ilvl will always, nigh zero exceptions, outperform you. This boiled the whole game down to poopsocking or ingroups to me. It was also my understanding that SKS breakpoints were becoming so sparse and slim that simple latency jitter was making them not behave as theorized. I don't mean to state any of this as facts, just disenchanting observations on why it stopped being fun for me.
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Nov 15, 2023 03:01
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Ranzear posted:Someone with marginally higher ilvl will always, nigh zero exceptions, outperform you. Except for a few edge cases or break points gear choice absolutely boils down to just ilvl and then max crit, but the button pressing is far more important than you give credit.
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Nov 15, 2023 03:51
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kedo posted:This was, unfortunately, my experience with the last Evercraft Online stress test as well. I'm ashamed that I never played EQ (I was consumed by UO and then WoW), so I don't know if I just lack the foundational knowledge the devs expect, or if the games are just poorly designed for new players at this point. I spent way too much time just trying to figure out controls and systems. (disclosure: I'm on the EverCraft dev team) The last stress test was a while ago so it's probably not fresh in your mind, but if anything was particularly difficult I'd love for you to drop by the discord and leave some feedback. We have a handful of plans about making the new player experience more instructional and less EQ-style "drop you in a foreign world with a tattered robe and a pat on the back". However, the entire dev team is full of nostalgic EQ brain worms and often doesn't notice the sharp edges, so we love to hear fresh player experiences to know what needs attention. Bognar fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Nov 15, 2023 |
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Nov 15, 2023 04:33
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xZAOx posted:I like it when games treat spells basically like weapons are for melee. Finding better, rarer spells makes you more powerful. If a game has "your items are left on your corpse", then the spellbook being left behind as well makes sense. Yeah. You are probably right on that. Its also worth noting that some expansions like Moria are extremely well made
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Nov 15, 2023 12:17
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Ranzear posted:"Works better" was certainly my expectation. There is no excelling in XIV just by making gear choices and pressing buttons. Someone with marginally higher ilvl will always, nigh zero exceptions, outperform you. This boiled the whole game down to poopsocking or ingroups to me. Higher ilvl = more better is definitely the case in like 99% of situations. The only edgecases I remember are sometimes healers wanting lower ilvl items for significantly better secondary stats. Usually the gearing choices just boil down to which individual pieces of the 2 full gear sets released with every raid tier you want for your best-in-slot, and almost always that just boils down to maximizing crit and minimizing stats that don't give pure damage, like Tenacity. The two speed stats are absolutely massive though and directly and immediately affect how any given fight feels to play to me. Getting the exact speed you want though is also usually fairly little effort. The comment about poopsocking is really weird though. With the exception of the final form of the relic each expansion, which is usually the best weapon for everyone for the last patch of a given expansion, poopsocking or anything close to it hasn't been required for getting the best gear since Heavensward and Diadem. There obviously is poopsocking content in the game, but that rewards novelty items, not the best gear. If raiding for gear requires anything approaching poopsocking, that's a skill issue. That said in general I absolutely do agree with the overall sentiment that itemization in FFXIV is boring. Everything is essentially just an appearance and a stat stick. Of course you've had these kinds of boring basic items all the way back in EQ as well, but you also had all sorts of weirder items with interesting clickies or weird procs. It might not sound like much but it definitely made it feel more like the item had it's own identity beyond just "the ilvl640 tome chestpiece".
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Nov 15, 2023 16:06
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Bognar posted:(disclosure: I'm on the EverCraft dev team) It's been long enough that I can't remember specifics, sorry! I have every intention of trying it again next stress test and would be happy to provide some feedback in Discord. Cool to see a dev member in this thread.  In other news, I got a beta invite (sorta? just a survey link asking for generic gaming-related demographic info and computer specs...) for the Dune MMO *ominous horns* 
kedo fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Nov 15, 2023 |
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Nov 15, 2023 16:58
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desert power
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Nov 15, 2023 17:56
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i will grind crabs in the dune desert
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Nov 15, 2023 18:05
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blatman posted:i will grind crabs in the dune desert I saw this morning something about a possible upcoming closed beta test for the Dune MMO.
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Nov 15, 2023 18:37
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unless the Dune MMO combines the best parts of DAOC and SWG it's gonna be a big poopy butt
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Nov 15, 2023 19:47
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When you jam your maker hook into a sandworm you get a hit marker on your crosshair
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Nov 15, 2023 20:33
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Bognar posted:(disclosure: I'm on the EverCraft dev team) I would only like to join this discord so I can lead a coup against your blunting ideas! If the world isn't an unforgiving land full of death what incentive will there be for players to band together?
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Nov 15, 2023 21:11
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Frog Act posted:unless the Dune MMO combines the best parts of DAOC and SWG it's gonna be a big poopy butt Its a Funcom game, so yeah it will be poop.
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Nov 15, 2023 21:57
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I wonder what the honored matres class kit can do
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Nov 15, 2023 22:48
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I said come in! posted:Its a Funcom game, so yeah it will be poop. Can’t wait for a reskinned Age of Conan or Conan Unchained - whichever was the once-good now-bad MMO and the always-bad survival base building game - with janky sandworms and annoying mechanics. I’m gonna buy it and get real mad
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Nov 16, 2023 00:29
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Let me go on the record and say that I am a big fan of "with guns"ing other games. Anarchy Online? Everquest with guns. Cyberpunk 2077? Witcher 3 with guns. Dune Awakening? Conan Exiles with guns. So I'm all for it.
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Nov 16, 2023 03:09
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