Alan Wake 2: Finally Over His Writer's Block

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Alan Wake 2: Finally Over His Writer's Block

Nephthys: Mar 27, 2010

Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:

I think the hack writer thing is overplayed, he's definitely portrayed as a famous paperback novelist and not much more, but his problem is that he's a clairvoyant who only seems to pick up dark poo poo, and all his "inspiration" (his visions of Casey and other hosed up poo poo that had him gravitate towards writing the Casey series, the allusions to other Remedy events in his Night Springs episodes, and likely visions of the events of Control as well) seems to only be sourced from that. It's also the only way he knows how to dispel his nightmares. It's established in AW1 that writing stories was his means of dealing with the nightmares he had growing up, thereby removing their power over him. He's trapped, terrified, and is trying to dispel his fears and anxieties within the Dark Place by doing what he always did, trying to write his way out of the nightmares to rob them of their power and desperately, obsessively searching for the tool his mother gave him to drive away the dark. That's why Dark Presence infested Wake is so obsessed with the Clicker and with writing a story that will make everything perfect, bright, with no friction, fear, or insecurity for him to face in the world. Just everyone brainwashed so that he can continue avoiding his problems.

He's an angry, troubled man who's trying to deal with the Dark Place the same way he "dealt" with his problems at the peak of his fame and at the nadir of his marriage, by brute forcing his way through everything and refusing help.

At the end of AW2 he accepts help with writing his story from someone who is actually trying to combat the Dark Place's influence, rather than from Zane the filmmaker who seems to revel in it, essentially helping Wake indulge in his worst habits, encouraging him to slam his head at the wall further by accelerating the story to be darker and darker. The worse it gets, the worse he feels he has to make the story to combat it, just like how he magnified and embellished Casey's life. Spiraling down perpetually. At the end he gets shot in the loving head with a literal flash of inspiration and self-realization and understands that it's not a loop he has to break, but a spiral he has to halt the momentum of. I'm pretty sure the next game will be the culmination of his Hero's journey and he'll finally learn other ways of coping that don't involve him soaking in his own fears, that will probably be the key to escaping the Dark Place, just how Saga managed to avoid that spiral herself. Wake has just been in there for a fuckton of a long time, so he's very, very far down the spiral, and his ascension is going to be nasty and lovely for him, just like future Wake implied on the phone.

None of what you said makes this not his fault. He's the one writing the story, it's purely his own limitations that cause him to make it as dark and horrible as it is. When I call him a hack writer that's what I mean, not that his prose is bad or anything. Just that he's unable to change or evolve his writing in any way. He got sick of writing crime fiction, killed off Casey and tried to write something new. Instead, he gets writers block and starts lashing out, prompting Alice to bring him to Cauldron Lake and get trapped. And as we see his solution is to go back to writing Casey fiction, because he's metaphorically stuck in the Dark Place and unable to change. He never even considers writing a happy story, because he doesn't know how and so it wouldn't be "real enough" to work.

Another thing is that the game goes out of its way to show that Alan had an extremely privileged life and was very successful. He had a loving wife, friends and tons of people trying to help him. He's a rich, white man. He doesn't actually have a reason to be angry and troubled. This is directly stated in the musical when his absurd reaction to "You've led a charmed life: great childhood, loving mum, successful career" is "Yes, it was all too much! I had to get away!"

All of his problems stem from himself and are mostly about him being immature and self-centered. As you point out this is likely because he learned early on to avoid his problems with a "magic" solution instead of directly confronting and overcoming them. Saga and Alice both went to the Dark Place, faced their fears and flaws and overcame them much quicker and easier than Alan did. You're right that the ending is clearly about him getting to the same point and starting to claw his way out of his own darkness but I find it really hard to be sympathetic for him after all the pain and suffering he caused getting to this point.

He's just kind of a lovely guy. I really wanted Saga to punch him out by the end tbh.

# ? Nov 13, 2023 00:30

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 09:02

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Nephthys posted:

None of what you said makes this not his fault. He's the one writing the story, it's purely his own limitations that cause him to make it as dark and horrible as it is. When I call him a hack writer that's what I mean, not that his prose is bad or anything. Just that he's unable to change or evolve his writing in any way. He got sick of writing crime fiction, killed off Casey and tried to write something new. Instead, he gets writers block and starts lashing out, prompting Alice to bring him to Cauldron Lake and get trapped. And as we see his solution is to go back to writing Casey fiction, because he's metaphorically stuck in the Dark Place and unable to change. He never even considers writing a happy story, because he doesn't know how and so it wouldn't be "real enough" to work.

Another thing is that the game goes out of its way to show that Alan had an extremely privileged life and was very successful. He had a loving wife, friends and tons of people trying to help him. He's a rich, white man. He doesn't actually have a reason to be angry and troubled. This is directly stated in the musical when his absurd reaction to "You've led a charmed life: great childhood, loving mum, successful career" is "Yes, it was all too much! I had to get away!"

All of his problems stem from himself and are mostly about him being immature and self-centered. As you point out this is likely because he learned early on to avoid his problems with a "magic" solution instead of directly confronting and overcoming them. Saga and Alice both went to the Dark Place, faced their fears and flaws and overcame them much quicker and easier than Alan did. You're right that the ending is clearly about him getting to the same point and starting to claw his way out of his own darkness but I find it really hard to be sympathetic for him after all the pain and suffering he caused getting to this point.

He's just kind of a lovely guy. I really wanted Saga to punch him out by the end tbh.

Both time that he was restricted by the genre of the story, he did not write the original by his own volition. In Alan Wake 1, he was forced into it by the Dark Presence and in Alan Wake 2 he was in a fugue state due to the Dark Place being hosed up.

Also about the musical, you're just making stuff up. "I had to get away" wasn't a response to anything about his childhood, it was a response to the line about his fame. And his nice sheltered childhood also included constant nightmares.

# ? Nov 13, 2023 00:41

Mulva: Sep 13, 2011; It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

As it gets brought up a lot, and always was central to the games, here's the Cliff Notes of the Hero's Journey: Take rando. He's in his normal everyday life doing normal stuff. And now, the thing happens. Someone burns down his village, he finds a powerful ring, or I don't know....his wife is swallowed by a magic lake. At this point the hero does not, in fact, go be a hero. He fucks it up somehow. Say....by giving in to grief and letting an evil hag monster have him write a horror story. At this point the supernatural mentor figure, lets call it "The Bright Presence as seen as Tom Zane in a diving suit", pops in to aid the hero. To show him the nature of things, and set him on his path to collect a fuckton of pages and write a better story, all while navigating mediocre combat and really entertaining set pieces filled with fun characters. Helping to show him this new world and his place in it. The hero is now clear headed, accepts the call and steps up to do cool poo poo.

This the first third of the Hero's Journey. It's called "Departure". It's also called "Separation", because of what the hero has to leave behind. Home, family, perhaps a wife named Alice.

After this, the hero begins to accept the supernatural and faces numerous trials. This often begins with the hero entering a magic world, either explicitly or in comparison to their mundane life. We could call this "The Dark Place". The first part of this step is often called "Descent". The hardships and temptations, things like "I am trapped in a nightmare realm beyond life and death and everything I do kills innocent people" and "I need to get back to my wife" drive him and force him to confront himself. In this stage, any number of magic forces and helpful people will pop up to add the hero. Like a wizard or a magic sword, or a team of federal agents and a magic clicker. poo poo like that. Often his ultimate boon is given to him by a female figure, you know: Wise old elf queen, his mom, no-nonsense FBI Agent and/or his wife Alice. He then has to face his ultimate temptation. Power, knowledge, everyone being real stoked on how cool his new book is and giving him a high five because he's a great guy. Seriously that's Wake's dark future, it's everyone being jazzed about his writing and telling him how good he is. Jesus Christ that man needed like 3 extra parents to hug him as a child. Anyway after getting past this, we have the Atonement. This is where the hero confronts the thing which has power over life and death, often a dark male figure. This is sometimes called "The Father" or "The Abyss", but we could go with "Scratch" I suppose. At this point the hero is often aided by the boon provided by the Goddess. Perhaps in the form of a magic clicker or a bullet of light. Having confronted the figure, perhaps by killing himself to end the story, the hero reaches some greater form of communion with it and the world. Lets say "The realization that Scratch was always just me and my worst aspects brought out by the Dark Presence, and I refuse to hurt people anymore.". Accepting this, the hero is enlightened. The end of the second part, called "Apotheosis". Having done this, the hero receives his true power.

This section is the meat of most stories, because it has most of the cool poo poo. The second third of the Hero's Journey, Initiation.

Don't know why I felt the need to do that, but there it is.

Because the entire loving point is that this was never a horror story, it was always the Hero's Journey. The reason he could never get Return to work is because he skipped Initiation and tried to jump straight to the end, without the hardships and self-examination that happens in the middle. He's surprised when Door talks about him writing Initiation because he doesn't remember writing it, which inspires him to start writing drafts for it. Much like Alice needed to push him along by faking her suicide, driving him to actually live it. That's how it works, the Hero is aided along the way by people around him to help him reach where he needs to go, until ultimately the hero himself is enlightened and can Return to help others. Nihilism is absolutely a strong component of a lot of horror stories, and you *can* just write "And then I shot the monster and I went home", because horror can be the denial of meaning and the reality that arbitrary terrible poo poo can just happen and end. The Hero's Journey though is always about the meaning of every step, and it can't be cheated. You are enlightened and ascend or you die. No other choices.

# ? Nov 13, 2023 01:02

Flytrap: Apr 30, 2013

Also important to remember that AW1 establishes that The Dark Presence is Wake's editor. He wasn't writing a horror story when he was trying to save Alice, but Barbara kept sneaking in behind him and making changes. The plot is a game of 4D chess between an ancient darkness older than the first dreams of man and some rear end in a top hat that hasn't slept in 13 years.

Like Wake is absolutely a dickhead yeah but there's way more to it then him being bad at his job. Given TDP seems to be playing it a bit more hands off this time, a lot of what happens to Alan this time is self inflicted, but that appears to be an active game to drive him mad through paranoia. Wake KNOWS it can gently caress with him any time it wants, so he spends all of his time thinking that it is while it occasionally popping in going "Ooooh I'mma getcha!" to keep that fear nice and fresh.

Flytrap fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Nov 13, 2023

# ? Nov 13, 2023 01:33

Oxxidation: Jul 22, 2007

i also think some people are misunderstanding the big Mr Scratch reveal in AW2. scratch isn't just alan having a bad day, he's the husk of alan possessed by the dark presence. alan spends most of the game thinking that scratch is like jagger, an external enemy he needs to light up before Return can be finished, when he's actually caught in a loop (or spiral, whichever) of killing himself mid-edit, being possessed by the darkness after that horrified moment of realization, and then working to write the story that he was just editing

just like the first game, Return is a collaborative effort between alan and the dark presence, it's just taking a more convoluted route to subvert his plot this time around

# ? Nov 13, 2023 02:34

lines: Aug 18, 2013; She, laughing in mockery, changed herself into a wren and flew away.

I think the apotheosis state that Alice points to is quite possibly what the original Zane went to. It seems like it might be the case that once the Dark Presence has an artist they are either destroyed by it or transcend it, up the spiral or down. Alice seems like she's a few more levels up than Alan in that sense.

How this all fits into the wider Remedy cosmology I couldn't say, though I've been told a lot of Hatch's motivation in QB is wanting to create more people like him, shifters who stand astride between worlds. I think there's a reading which says that's what Door, and Alice, are pushing Alan into.

Saga can probably get away though, because she makes her own journey through her twin inheritances.

# ? Nov 13, 2023 02:51

Lil Swamp Booger Baby: Aug 1, 1981

Mulva posted:

As it gets brought up a lot, and always was central to the games, here's the Cliff Notes of the Hero's Journey: Take rando. He's in his normal everyday life doing normal stuff. And now, the thing happens. Someone burns down his village, he finds a powerful ring, or I don't know....his wife is swallowed by a magic lake. At this point the hero does not, in fact, go be a hero. He fucks it up somehow. Say....by giving in to grief and letting an evil hag monster have him write a horror story. At this point the supernatural mentor figure, lets call it "The Bright Presence as seen as Tom Zane in a diving suit", pops in to aid the hero. To show him the nature of things, and set him on his path to collect a fuckton of pages and write a better story, all while navigating mediocre combat and really entertaining set pieces filled with fun characters. Helping to show him this new world and his place in it. The hero is now clear headed, accepts the call and steps up to do cool poo poo.

This the first third of the Hero's Journey. It's called "Departure". It's also called "Separation", because of what the hero has to leave behind. Home, family, perhaps a wife named Alice.

After this, the hero begins to accept the supernatural and faces numerous trials. This often begins with the hero entering a magic world, either explicitly or in comparison to their mundane life. We could call this "The Dark Place". The first part of this step is often called "Descent". The hardships and temptations, things like "I am trapped in a nightmare realm beyond life and death and everything I do kills innocent people" and "I need to get back to my wife" drive him and force him to confront himself. In this stage, any number of magic forces and helpful people will pop up to add the hero. Like a wizard or a magic sword, or a team of federal agents and a magic clicker. poo poo like that. Often his ultimate boon is given to him by a female figure, you know: Wise old elf queen, his mom, no-nonsense FBI Agent and/or his wife Alice. He then has to face his ultimate temptation. Power, knowledge, everyone being real stoked on how cool his new book is and giving him a high five because he's a great guy. Seriously that's Wake's dark future, it's everyone being jazzed about his writing and telling him how good he is. Jesus Christ that man needed like 3 extra parents to hug him as a child. Anyway after getting past this, we have the Atonement. This is where the hero confronts the thing which has power over life and death, often a dark male figure. This is sometimes called "The Father" or "The Abyss", but we could go with "Scratch" I suppose. At this point the hero is often aided by the boon provided by the Goddess. Perhaps in the form of a magic clicker or a bullet of light. Having confronted the figure, perhaps by killing himself to end the story, the hero reaches some greater form of communion with it and the world. Lets say "The realization that Scratch was always just me and my worst aspects brought out by the Dark Presence, and I refuse to hurt people anymore.". Accepting this, the hero is enlightened. The end of the second part, called "Apotheosis". Having done this, the hero receives his true power.

This section is the meat of most stories, because it has most of the cool poo poo. The second third of the Hero's Journey, Initiation.

Don't know why I felt the need to do that, but there it is.

Because the entire loving point is that this was never a horror story, it was always the Hero's Journey. The reason he could never get Return to work is because he skipped Initiation and tried to jump straight to the end, without the hardships and self-examination that happens in the middle. He's surprised when Door talks about him writing Initiation because he doesn't remember writing it, which inspires him to start writing drafts for it. Much like Alice needed to push him along by faking her suicide, driving him to actually live it. That's how it works, the Hero is aided along the way by people around him to help him reach where he needs to go, until ultimately the hero himself is enlightened and can Return to help others. Nihilism is absolutely a strong component of a lot of horror stories, and you *can* just write "And then I shot the monster and I went home", because horror can be the denial of meaning and the reality that arbitrary terrible poo poo can just happen and end. The Hero's Journey though is always about the meaning of every step, and it can't be cheated. You are enlightened and ascend or you die. No other choices.

Yeah this is pretty much what I've been saying since before the game even came out. Even if it wasn't horror there'd be sacrifice and loss because that exists even in children's stories, and this is explicitly Initiation where the hero tends to be faced with his most profound challenges, and it never happens how they want it to. It was inevitable that he would suffer and as soon as the story became a living thing it was guaranteed others would suffer too, and the Dark Place explicitly wipes his memory repeatedly until he can reach his self-realization, the path had to be laid out for him to walk because no hero chooses their particular loss or suffering to reach that point.

# ? Nov 13, 2023 03:05

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

👉🏼 https://open.spotify.com/track/116aoNW7IoAxeJG1uZ1ZYd?si=fa83d0f3627040aa

# ? Nov 13, 2023 04:55

Lil Swamp Booger Baby: Aug 1, 1981

site posted:

👉🏼 https://open.spotify.com/track/116aoNW7IoAxeJG1uZ1ZYd?si=fa83d0f3627040aa

The way this song started I was expecting to hear DEARLY BELOVED, WE ARE GATHERED HERE TODAY

# ? Nov 13, 2023 05:00

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Cool that the chapter songs are uploaded but when are we getting Herald of Darkness and Dark Ocean Summoning?

# ? Nov 13, 2023 05:03

kirbysuperstar: Nov 11, 2012; Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

Herald is on their YouTube channel at least

# ? Nov 13, 2023 05:13

Captain Hygiene: Sep 17, 2007; You mess with the crabbo...

Quantum Break thing :thunk:

I did not remember the upper right part of that chalkboard at all :tinfoil:

# ? Nov 13, 2023 05:17

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:

The way this song started I was expecting to hear DEARLY BELOVED, WE ARE GATHERED HERE TODAY

I linked it because it was directly relevant to the topic discussed at the time, oddly enough

# ? Nov 13, 2023 05:20

veni veni veni: Jun 5, 2005

I really can�t wait to finish the Alan Wake story. The whole thing is terribly designed and I am so sick of playing it

# ? Nov 13, 2023 07:28

AngryBooch: Sep 26, 2009

Captain Hygiene posted:

Quantum Break thing

I did not remember the upper right part of that chalkboard at all

The conspiracy brained among us will remember that Quantum Break was taken down from storefronts for a few weeks in April of this year to deal with some expiring licenses. Perhaps Remedy took it as an opportunity to put in more easter eggs as well...

https://www.pcgamer.com/quantum-break-is-back-on-steam-and-pc-game-pass/

# ? Nov 13, 2023 07:45

Nephthys: Mar 27, 2010

Oxxidation posted:

i also think some people are misunderstanding the big Mr Scratch reveal in AW2. scratch isn't just alan having a bad day, he's the husk of alan possessed by the dark presence. alan spends most of the game thinking that scratch is like jagger, an external enemy he needs to light up before Return can be finished, when he's actually caught in a loop (or spiral, whichever) of killing himself mid-edit, being possessed by the darkness after that horrified moment of realization, and then working to write the story that he was just editing

just like the first game, Return is a collaborative effort between alan and the dark presence, it's just taking a more convoluted route to subvert his plot this time around

I'm not sure about the timeline here. By the point that Alan gets possessed by the Dark Presence Return has already been written and edited. The completed manuscript is in front of him/it. We also do see Alan and Zane getting high and creating Return, "It's called Return cuz.... we return".

Later Zane contradicts this and claims that he did create Return with a possessed Alan and gets shot, but then he wipes the "bullet makeup" off and acts like this was just a dramatic scene. So I interpreted this as being another staged scene to mislead Alan like Alices videos. So maybe it's meant to be deliberately ambiguous on who actually wrote Return.

# ? Nov 13, 2023 09:10

Zat: Jan 16, 2008

SirSamVimes posted:

Cool that the chapter songs are uploaded but when are we getting Herald of Darkness and Dark Ocean Summoning?

They will be on the upcoming Old Gods of Asgard compilation, Rebirth. Release date December 8.

https://www.backstagerockshop.com/products/old-gods-of-asgard-rebirth-greatest-hits-cd

For now they're on Youtube though.

Zat fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Nov 13, 2023

# ? Nov 13, 2023 13:54

Detective No. 27: Jun 7, 2006

Last time I posted in the thread, I had a game breaking bug where Cynthia Weaver�s profile didn�t show up in the Mind Place.

I left the game alone for a week and decided to give it a shot tonight. There was a big patch. It fixed the issue! I wasn�t crazy! I can continue the game!

# ? Nov 14, 2023 03:13

Captain Hygiene: Sep 17, 2007; You mess with the crabbo...

The patch shifted reality, allowing the story to progress.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 03:32

BlackIronHeart: Aug 2, 2004; PROCEED

I bought an RTX4070 so now I can see Saga's reflection in the bathroom mirrors, 10/10 GOTY.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 03:32

Kibayasu: Mar 28, 2010

Saw credits. Mechanically speaking I think there�s a few stumbles. Maybe this is just me but I never seemed to get a handle on where I was supposed to aim to break a shield. Sometimes I�d do it with a single charge and other times I�d somehow miss entirely, or start hitting a basically stationary Taken and then start missing. This got kind of frustrating in parts particularly during the summoning. It felt like a mistake to try to replicate Children of the Elder God with such a different and slower paced combat system. Felt the same way during Herald of Darkness as well. I adored what was happening around me until I had to kind of fiddle with the inventory and flashlight. For all the faults you can assign to Alan Wake 1 it�s faster paced and less punishing combat lent itself well to those kinds of moments.

I also think the pacing suffered from the semi-open world. Of course part of that is me going to find everything but it always feels necessary. That�s not to say I didn�t like the bespoke parts like exploring Coffee World or Alan�s various levels. It was having to slowly jog through sizable areas to reach an icon I can deal with now or didn�t see before. There was also what seemed to be bugs on the map for when something get collected and cleared or not so things stayed on the map and I always had to go back a few times to make sure I hadn�t missed something.

Anyways I wouldn�t be here if I didn�t love everything else about the game. You bet your rear end I watched the whole movie.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 05:52

FallenGod: May 23, 2002; Unite, Afro Warriors!

Finished it up, great game and path tracing made it look great. Saga's sections of the game ran at like half the framerate of Wake's, though, which made finding balanced settings a bit tricky.

Shame about this Wake dude going on a hero's journey over a mountain of innocent corpses and ruined lives instead of going to therapy, but at least there were some bangin musical numbers along the way.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 05:59

AnEdgelord: Dec 12, 2016

FallenGod posted:

Finished it up, great game and path tracing made it look great. Saga's sections of the game ran at like half the framerate of Wake's, though, which made finding balanced settings a bit tricky.

Shame about this Wake dude going on a hero's journey over a mountain of innocent corpses and ruined lives instead of going to therapy, but at least there were some bangin musical numbers along the way.

Therapy is what started this whole loving mess lol

# ? Nov 14, 2023 06:13

FallenGod: May 23, 2002; Unite, Afro Warriors!

If he'd just committed to it, Hartman could have gotten that job at the FBC.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 06:20

Kibayasu: Mar 28, 2010

By the way, is some evidence you can find as Saga gated by difficulty or anything like that? I believe the first game had pages you could only find on the highest difficulty. Despite checking in more than a few places (there�s that pacing again) there were some pieces that I never got and am pretty sure I cannot get.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 16:46

CharlestonJew: Jul 7, 2011; Illegal Hen

Kibayasu posted:

By the way, is some evidence you can find as Saga gated by difficulty or anything like that? I believe the first game had pages you could only find on the highest difficulty. Despite checking in more than a few places (there�s that pacing again) there were some pieces that I never got and am pretty sure I cannot get.

There will be a nightmare difficulty DLC down the line that will include some extra manuscript pages and the like, but if you're missing anything it's either bugged or you just missed it. Some of the manuscript pages in particular blend into the background super well, I walked over a few multiple times before realizing they were there. A couple are also permanently missable, like the ones you can find in overlaps.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 17:06

thebardyspoon: Jun 30, 2005

I might be wrong but I think they said the new story stuff will be in NG+ mode, not necessarily connected to a nightmare mode. It would be odd for them to connect any potential story stuff to playing on harder difficulties after doing the good stuff they did with accessibility options in Control. I guess they could import those and let you fiddle with them in Nightmare mode still so you could play it and beat it no matter what?

As someone who played through this game on Hard, I don't think I wanna try and do the big fight as Saga again on an even harder difficulty personally. Even with a rifle that could penetrate the shields and the crossbow one shotting enemies, I still found myself getting bogged down a lot.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 17:21

lines: Aug 18, 2013; She, laughing in mockery, changed herself into a wren and flew away.

I have definitely read that there would be some Nightmare-only story stuff but I think it's bad and they shouldn't do it.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 17:55

Kibayasu: Mar 28, 2010

CharlestonJew posted:

There will be a nightmare difficulty DLC down the line that will include some extra manuscript pages and the like, but if you're missing anything it's either bugged or you just missed it. Some of the manuscript pages in particular blend into the background super well, I walked over a few multiple times before realizing they were there. A couple are also permanently missable, like the ones you can find in overlaps.

In that case I wish they had put a big red X through any evidence you couldn�t get any more. It wouldn�t exactly be a stretch for Saga to know something like that.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 18:06

Sassy Sasquatch: Feb 28, 2013

Just finished it, there's a lot to unpack. To put it simply I loved almost everything about Saga's part of the story but dreaded having to play Alan. Her enemies and locations are more varied, her weapons are cooler and I just deeply enjoyed pretending to be a badass FBI lady working a really weird case. The good news is that her chapters are the meat and bones of the game.

Alan's parts really pale in comparison, the biggest reason for me being that it all happens in the dark place and that robs his chapters of any gravitas. None of it feels like it matters or advances the story in any way until the end which is pretty ironic for a story about a guy trying to write his way out of oblivion. His levels feel very empty and the backtracking encouraged by his unique mechanic just make that impression worse. I was pretty harsh earlier with the rock opera scene because in retrospect that was probably the high point of his campaign for me.

Overall I'd say the game would have benefited strongly from ditching the character switching mechanic. Just make the chapter order linear, cut Alan's number of chapters by half, make them more condensed and use them sporadically as interludes between Saga's chapters and I think you'd have a really, really tight game. As it stands it's still very good but it's being held back certain design decisions in my opinion. Also I miss the more generous dodge from AW1 but I understand why they had to make it suck.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 18:57

acksplode: May 17, 2004

Sassy Sasquatch posted:

Overall I'd say the game would have benefited strongly from ditching the character switching mechanic. Just make the chapter order linear, cut Alan's number of chapters by half, make them more condensed and use them sporadically as interludes between Saga's chapters and I think you'd have a really, really tight game.

Yeah that would've been a great change. I feel like character switching was intended to be a bigger idea somehow, but in practice it only gives you the freedom to screw up the game's pacing. It would be a better game with a fixed chapter order and less emphasis on Alan's side of things.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 19:08

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

whenever i play again it's definitely going to be "play all alan chapters -> return to saga" cuz that felt like the way it was meant to be

# ? Nov 14, 2023 19:09

PantsBandit: Oct 26, 2007; it is both a monkey and a boombox

site posted:

whenever i play again it's definitely going to be "play all alan chapters -> return to saga" cuz that felt like the way it was meant to be

Not sure I understand this position, the story felt like it was much more intriguing when you were going back and forth and seeing their broken up convos from both sides. Doing all one side first would just give you all the puzzle pieces and then you'd retread a lot of them again.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 19:13

veni veni veni: Jun 5, 2005

Alans campaign just feels bloated. I'd like to see it shorter but basically the same content, only with a less self indulgent execution. Most of the gimmicks wear out their welcome. Even the scene everyone loves didn't need to be like 25 minutes long.

And yeah Alan, then Saga and that seems to be the way to do it. The switching doesn't seem to add or change anything and just fucks the pacing up.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 19:14

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

PantsBandit posted:

Not sure I understand this position, the story felt like it was much more intriguing when you were going back and forth and seeing their broken up convos from both sides. Doing all one side first would just give you all the puzzle pieces and then you'd retread a lot of them again.

...i mean, you are retreading them, when you're switching back and forth. i'm not sure what you mean here. but the alan story is essentially a flashback of what alan was doing up until he wound up on shore. so splitting it up as a "return to the same flashback and continue on from where you left off" just didn't really work as well as i guess they expected it to, for me. just do the whole thing and then the game meets back up in the present

# ? Nov 14, 2023 19:18

Lil Swamp Booger Baby: Aug 1, 1981

It's not a flashback though considering he does things that end up in the future for Saga and personally I don't think the game that succeeds precisely because it allows itself to be indulgent needs to be streamlined to effect some kind of corny "objective" standard of playability, which is a big reason so many games feel homogenous nowadays. Games are intensely focus grouped through poo poo like Discord channels and social media and it's been rear end for creativity. I'd rather accept a lul than have them chop up a game because "Oh this part kind of wears."

# ? Nov 14, 2023 19:28

acksplode: May 17, 2004

Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:

It's not a flashback though considering he does things that end up in the future for Saga

Nonlinear time yadda yadda but it's a flashback, his half of the game takes place prior to his appearing on the lake shore. Alan's first chapter is even kicked off by Casey asking Alan what happened and Alan going hmmm and thinking back

# ? Nov 14, 2023 19:33

CharlestonJew: Jul 7, 2011; Illegal Hen

acksplode posted:

Nonlinear time yadda yadda but it's a flashback, his half of the game takes place prior to his appearing on the lake shore. Alan's first chapter is even kicked off by Casey asking Alan what happened and Alan going hmmm and thinking back

I interpreted that as Alan both existing in the Dark Place and the real world at the same time. After Saga and Casey rescue him, a "piece" of him is still trapped in the dark place, which is why Alan's section starts off with him going "oh gently caress I never escaped, I'm still here!" and why Alan's memories are all jumbled up and incoherent. And since the Alan of the real world has a piece of him missing, that's the perfect place for Scratch to piggyback

# ? Nov 14, 2023 20:12

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

no, alan's first chapter is late night where he wakes up with no idea what's going on because he shot himself in the head (again), the last thing that happens in the flashback is the dark presence infecting his mind right before the clicker goes off, which is why scratch is in him when he reappears in the real world

site fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Nov 14, 2023

# ? Nov 14, 2023 20:42

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 09:02

acksplode: May 17, 2004

Yep, Alan going "Oh poo poo I never escaped" is meant to line up with a bunch of possible theories because the plot wants to keep you guessing at that point. Saga even comments on this stuff directly while you're working on the case board -- why is she still seeing Wake at Overlaps? Is Wake still there, or are these visions ripples from the past? You're supposed to be wondering, is the Wake she knows actually Scratch who I've been hearing all about but haven't seen yet, and the real Wake is still in the Dark Place? But around Return 6 the plot starts pruning possibilities and clarifying events.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Alan Wake 2: Finally Over His Writer's Block

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