[Ukraine] U.S. gives up on sending $100,000 guided artillery shells due to 6% hitrate

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] U.S. gives up on sending $100,000 guided artillery shells due to 6% hitrate

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BrotherJayne: Nov 28, 2019

fizziest posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f087302118b4229

Zelenskiy says Russian attacks are increasing around Donetsk, Kupiansk and Avdiivka
3h ago11.43 GMT

Ukraine�s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has said Russia is increasing its attacks across the frontline, AFP reports.

Neither side has made any significant territorial gain for months, but both Zelenskiy and the Kremlin have denied the conflict has ground to a stalemate.

�The military reported an increase in the number of enemy assaults,� Zelenskiy wrote on Telegram on Tuesday, saying Russian forces were attacking around Donetsk, Kupiansk and Avdiivka.

�The enemy continues to take revenge on the free Kherson, shelling the city centre without any military necessity,� he added.

Zelenskiy has said Russia is likely to increase airstrikes against Ukraine�s energy infrastructure before winter, as it did last year.

What sort of savage would shell a city without necessity? Someone call the Hague!

# ? Nov 14, 2023 16:31

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# ? May 28, 2024 16:38

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

Nix Panicus posted:

Russia took Crimea with six total deaths and a security detachment. How hard can it be?

Who were the 6 deaths?

Honestly asking because I didn't see any violence at all.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 16:34

fizziest: Nov 5, 2023; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

https://kyivindependent.com/investigative-stories-from-ukraine-parliament-still-closed-to-journalists-raising-transparency-concerns/

Investigative Stories from Ukraine: Parliament still closed to journalists, raising transparency concerns
by Daniil Ukhorskiy
November 14, 2023
4:03 PM
6 min read

Ukraine's parliament remains closed to the press two years into Russia's all-out war as legislators use vague security concerns as a pretext to deny access and avoid journalists' scrutiny, according to an investigation by schemes, a Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty project.

Before the full-scale invasion, journalists had access to plenary and committee meetings in parliament and could approach lawmakers for comment in the halls of the .

This isn't the first time the Ukrainian parliament has shut its doors for journalists: access was also limited during the COVID-19 pandemic, also raising concerns about the parliamentarians overusing the pretext of the pandemic to keep the press out.

Now, journalists can't freely enter the government quarter in Kyiv, where the parliament is based, or the building itself. Neither the parliamentary press service nor parliamentary speaker could point to the legislation that justified banning journalists from the area, schemes reported.

In conversation with schemes, Stefanchuk, who has the power to re-open sessions to journalists, pointed to vague security considerations and war-related dangers to lawmakers in justifying the policy.

Since the start of the Russian invasion in February 2022, plenary sessions have been broadcast with a delay on the parliamentary TV channel Rada. In the meantime, journalists have had no access to committee meetings, where the laws are drafted and discussed.

Several members of parliament told schemes that the justification for keeping journalists out of parliament was questionable and expressed their support for easing the rules to allow access.

Schemes also spotted several members of parliament arriving in luxury cars. Journalists estimated these vehicles to be worth over $100,000 and be registered to the lawmakers' family members. Registering expensive assets under the names of relatives indicates their possible illicit origin.

Additionally, journalists found that one member of parliament had racked up more than 20 unpaid speeding fines on his BMW.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 16:37

supersnowman: Oct 3, 2012

fizziest posted:

https://kyivindependent.com/investigative-stories-from-ukraine-parliament-still-closed-to-journalists-raising-transparency-concerns/

Investigative Stories from Ukraine: Parliament still closed to journalists, raising transparency concerns
by Daniil Ukhorskiy
November 14, 2023
4:03 PM
6 min read

Ukraine's parliament remains closed to the press two years into Russia's all-out war as legislators use vague security concerns as a pretext to deny access and avoid journalists' scrutiny, according to an investigation by schemes, a Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty project.

Before the full-scale invasion, journalists had access to plenary and committee meetings in parliament and could approach lawmakers for comment in the halls of the .

This isn't the first time the Ukrainian parliament has shut its doors for journalists: access was also limited during the COVID-19 pandemic, also raising concerns about the parliamentarians overusing the pretext of the pandemic to keep the press out.

Now, journalists can't freely enter the government quarter in Kyiv, where the parliament is based, or the building itself. Neither the parliamentary press service nor parliamentary speaker could point to the legislation that justified banning journalists from the area, schemes reported.

In conversation with schemes, Stefanchuk, who has the power to re-open sessions to journalists, pointed to vague security considerations and war-related dangers to lawmakers in justifying the policy.

Since the start of the Russian invasion in February 2022, plenary sessions have been broadcast with a delay on the parliamentary TV channel Rada. In the meantime, journalists have had no access to committee meetings, where the laws are drafted and discussed.

Several members of parliament told schemes that the justification for keeping journalists out of parliament was questionable and expressed their support for easing the rules to allow access.

Schemes also spotted several members of parliament arriving in luxury cars. Journalists estimated these vehicles to be worth over $100,000 and be registered to the lawmakers' family members. Registering expensive assets under the names of relatives indicates their possible illicit origin.

Additionally, journalists found that one member of parliament had racked up more than 20 unpaid speeding fines on his BMW.

The "security concern" are Ukrainians mad at the government because if Russia wanted to kill them, they would have bombed the place long ago.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 16:56

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

spacetoaster posted:

Who were the 6 deaths?

Honestly asking because I didn't see any violence at all.

Wikipedia article on Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War posted:

During the Russian annexation of Crimea from 23 February through 19 March 2014, six people were killed. The dead included three protesters,[1][2][3] two Ukrainian soldiers[4] and one Russian Cossack paramilitary.[5]

The protestors:
1+2: "Unfortunately, two people died during these clashes. There were no injuries. One had a heart attack, another, a woman, unfortunately, was trampled by the crowd," he said from the stage on Independence Square on Wednesday.
3: "The man�s body was identified by his wife; it turned out to be Crimean resident Reshat Ametovyakiy. On the morning of March 3, after the announcement of partial mobilization in Ukraine, he went to the military registration and enlistment office and disappeared."

The soldiers:
4:"The first reported death occurred in Simferopol when an unknown gunman shot and killed a Ukrainian serviceman while he was manning a tower overlooking a vehicle pool at the base."
5: "The defence ministry spokesman said the [naval officer] had been preparing his belongings to leave for the Ukrainian region of Mykolaev on Wednesday when an argument broke out with Russian servicemen."

The Cossack:
6: "Let us remind you that Ruslan Kazakov, together with other Volgograd Cossacks, went to Crimea on March 16 to help with maintaining order during the referendum. They were unarmed when the sniper opened fire on them."

# ? Nov 14, 2023 16:59

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

Nix Panicus posted:

The protestors:
1+2: "Unfortunately, two people died during these clashes. There were no injuries. One had a heart attack, another, a woman, unfortunately, was trampled by the crowd," he said from the stage on Independence Square on Wednesday.
3: "The man�s body was identified by his wife; it turned out to be Crimean resident Reshat Ametovyakiy. On the morning of March 3, after the announcement of partial mobilization in Ukraine, he went to the military registration and enlistment office and disappeared."

The soldiers:
4:"The first reported death occurred in Simferopol when an unknown gunman shot and killed a Ukrainian serviceman while he was manning a tower overlooking a vehicle pool at the base."
5: "The defence ministry spokesman said the [naval officer] had been preparing his belongings to leave for the Ukrainian region of Mykolaev on Wednesday when an argument broke out with Russian servicemen."

The Cossack:
6: "Let us remind you that Ruslan Kazakov, together with other Volgograd Cossacks, went to Crimea on March 16 to help with maintaining order during the referendum. They were unarmed when the sniper opened fire on them."

I guess it all just kinda faded into the background.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 17:36

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

spacetoaster posted:

I guess it all just kinda faded into the background.

It was 6 people over two very intense months, and 4 of them were military or military adjacent and one of the civilians was a heart attack. Compared to the violence of the Maidan coup it was extremely tame. Crimea seceded and its people chose to join Russia.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 17:44

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

vivek lays it all out

quote:

Vivek Ramaswamy: I�m absolutely unpersuaded and I�m actually enjoying watching the Ukraine hawks quietly, delicately tiptoe back from their position as this thing has unwound into a disaster. The first half of this race, I was the only person standing for it. Now, they�re actually quietly coming around to being more cautious as they should. Level with the American people here. Ukraine is not a paragon of democracy. This is a country that has banned 11 opposition parties. It has consolidated all media into one state TV media arm. That�s not democratic. It has threatened not to hold elections this year unless the U.S. forks over more money. That is not democratic. It has celebrated a Nazi in its ranks, the comedian in cargo pants, a man called Zelensky. Doing it in their own ranks, that is not democratic.

More facts for you that you won�t hear from the mainstream in either party or the mainstream media. The regions of Ukraine that are occupied by Russia right now, the Donbass, Luhansk, Donetsk, these are Russian-speaking regions that have not even been part of Ukraine since 2014, that other people probably couldn�t name those provinces for you. Those are the hard facts. And so to frame this as some kind of battle between good versus evil, don�t buy it. And I�d like the likes of the sharpest of the war hawks on Ukraine, Nikki Haley, to have some accountability and answer. Do you want to use U.S. taxpayer money to fund the banning of Christians? That is actually what�s happening. They�re using the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. They have banned them. The Ukrainian Parliament just did this last week supported by our dollars, and I think you owe it to the American people, Nikki, to at least this one time condemn-

Kristen: Mr. Ramaswamy, thank you. That�s time.

Vivek Ramaswamy: � at least to condemn their banning of Christians.

Kristen: Mr. Ramaswamy, thank you.

Vivek Ramaswamy: [inaudible 00:37:19] talking on both sides [inaudible 00:37:19].

Kristen: Mr. Ramaswamy, thank you. We ask the questions. Ambassador Haley-

Vivek Ramaswamy: Well, she deserves to answer.

Kristen: � what is your take on more funding for Ukraine?

Nikki Haley: I�m telling you Putin and President Xi are salivating at the thought that someone like that could become president. They would love to see that.

Vivek Ramaswamy: The fact of the matter is she doesn�t answer the question.

Nikki Haley: So this is what I will tell you is first of all let�s remember-

Vivek Ramaswamy: We�re driving Russia into China�s hands because of these foolish policies.

Kristen: Mr. Ramaswamy, you had your time to talk. The ambassador has the floor. Ambassador, please.

Nikki Haley: Thank you. The first thing I�ll tell you is we all remember what that thug did when he invaded Ukraine. We all know that half a million people have died because of Putin, and here is a freedom loving, pro-American country that is fighting for its survival and its democracy. No, I don�t think we should give them cash. I think we should give them the equipment and the ammunition to win. And I�ll tell you, if Biden had done it when they first asked for it, this war would be over.

But let�s also remember this. When you left Afghanistan in shambles and left them with a ton of weapons and money, it�s not that we left, it�s how we left. When you look at Ukraine, don�t think for a second, now everybody wants to move away from Ukraine, they�ll want to move away from Israel a year from now. America can never be so arrogant to think we don�t need friends. After 9/11, we needed a lot of friends. Now is the time to get partnerships. This unholy alliance between Russia, Ukraine and China is real. There is a reason the Taiwanese want us to support the Ukrainians. It�s because they know that China�s coming after them next. There is a reason Ukrainians want us to support Israelis because they know that if Iran wins, Russia wins. We have to see the combination of the three.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 17:55

Delta-Wye: Sep 29, 2005

nikki haley is very pro-ww3 and is the accelerationist candidate of choice

# ? Nov 14, 2023 18:00

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

Delta-Wye posted:

nikki haley is very pro-ww3 and is the accelerationist candidate of choice

dem candidate in 2028 too

# ? Nov 14, 2023 18:01

January 6 Survivor: Jan 6, 2022; The
Nelson Mandela
of clapping
dusty old cheeks

( o(

supersnowman posted:

Wouldn't they also have different charge and thus impacting action wit different gas pressure? There are a shitload of conscript, many probably not all that willing to be there who might not be all that interested in cleaning/stripping the gun which could help prevent gently caress up.

reasonably well built military rifles (so I am excluding the SA80) either have adjustable gas systems, are somewhat overgassed anyway or are built with the idea that ammunition will not always be the primo deluxe peacetime super duper high quality stuff and might have to subsist on an ammo diet that goes from "good quality stuff" to "honestly we just use dried cat piss as the propellant and recycled tin cans for brass".

technologically, small arms have hit a plateau for the last decades, this stuff is relatively well figured out, it's pretty easy to understand at least the general concepts of how a rifle works (if I can do it, anyone can) and the per unit price is not that high anyway so there is not as much opportunity for insane amounts of grift unlike planes or boats. Not that people ain't trying, mind you, but wunderwaffe like the Kriss Vector (sorry if it's your favorite videogame gun, it actually is rather mediocre) only get like a few pity contracts from second (at best) rate militaries and police agencies.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 18:29

Delta-Wye: Sep 29, 2005

im coming around to the idea for small arms, past basic functionality its really manufacturability that matters. when you need 2 million of something on short notice, its nice to be able to add additional production lines at the complexity of training a peasant to operate a sheet metal brake or riveter

# ? Nov 14, 2023 18:51

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

look brave operator, you need this amount of MOA in your unopposed war crimes

# ? Nov 14, 2023 18:55

Honest Thief: Jan 11, 2009

https://twitter.com/WizardSX0/status/1724468932428320872

# ? Nov 14, 2023 19:12

WoodrowSkillson: Feb 24, 2005; *Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Delta-Wye posted:

im coming around to the idea for small arms, past basic functionality its really manufacturability that matters. when you need 2 million of something on short notice, its nice to be able to add additional production lines at the complexity of training a peasant to operate a sheet metal brake or riveter

Someone has watched their Forgotten Weapons

# ? Nov 14, 2023 19:25

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Anyway, the whole issue with the Korean War was 1. there was no territory progress being made, 2. both sides had plenty of reinforcements, and 3. the intervening powers had nothing to gain from continued fighting. Basically, both China and the United States could keep on sending men indefinitely into the meat grinder and gain nothing from it.

While arguably in Ukraine 1. is happening or close to it, 2. and 3. aren't true. Even the Ukrainians are open about how bad recruiting is going while we haven't heard the same for the Russians, and this isn't really a war they can walk away from either (or arguably don't have something to gain from being in it). If anything, the leverage versus Russia is declining as the Gaza War has been dominating headlines and the West has lost interest.

Also, the Dnieper River thing is just pointless carnage; the Ukrainians have been sending a few hundred men at a time over and have at most a brigade engaged. The Russians obviously have not only more troops waiting for them but more of everything else, including reinforcements and supply lines that don't require bringing men and equipment on small boats across the river. It is just more PR-related slaughter that is making the job easier for the Russians.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 19:52 on Nov 14, 2023

# ? Nov 14, 2023 19:47

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

January 6 Survivor posted:

reasonably well built military rifles (so I am excluding the SA80) either have adjustable gas systems, are somewhat overgassed anyway or are built with the idea that ammunition will not always be the primo deluxe peacetime super duper high quality stuff and might have to subsist on an ammo diet that goes from "good quality stuff" to "honestly we just use dried cat piss as the propellant and recycled tin cans for brass".

technologically, small arms have hit a plateau for the last decades, this stuff is relatively well figured out, it's pretty easy to understand at least the general concepts of how a rifle works (if I can do it, anyone can) and the per unit price is not that high anyway so there is not as much opportunity for insane amounts of grift unlike planes or boats. Not that people ain't trying, mind you, but wunderwaffe like the Kriss Vector (sorry if it's your favorite videogame gun, it actually is rather mediocre) only get like a few pity contracts from second (at best) rate militaries and police agencies.

Good sir/madam, may I have the pleasure of introducing you to the 6.5mm sig xm7

Features include two-piece case ammo that you can't fire in training due to accelerated barrel wear and a scope that can see through walls and give you live twitter updates

Wikipedia has this to say:

quote:

The XM7 weighs 8.38 lb (3.80 kg), or 9.84 lb (4.46 kg) with a suppressor. It uses SR-25 pattern magazine that holds 20 rounds in a box magazine[6] and an optional 25-round box magazine is also available.[7] The proposed combat ammunition load for each soldier will be 140 total rounds, distributed across seven 20-round magazines, in total weighing 9.8 lb (4.4 kg). Compared to the M4A1 weighing 6.34 lb (2.88 kg) unsuppressed with a basic combat load of 210 rounds in seven 30-round magazines in total weighing 7.4 lb (3.4 kg), the XM7 weighs about 2 lb (0.91 kg) more and each soldier carries roughly a 4 lb (1.8 kg) heavier load with 70 fewer rounds.

They'll just like, be super accurate and lethal with those fewer bullets so it all works out

Slavvy has issued a correction as of 20:04 on Nov 14, 2023

# ? Nov 14, 2023 20:02

January 6 Survivor: Jan 6, 2022; The
Nelson Mandela
of clapping
dusty old cheeks

( o(

Slavvy posted:

Good sir/madam, may I have the pleasure of introducing you to the 6.5mm sig xm7

Features include two-piece case ammo that you can't fire in training due to accelerated barrel wear and a scope that can see through walls and give you live twitter updates

Wikipedia has this to say:

They'll just like, be super accurate and lethal with those fewer bullets so it all works out

it's more of a 6.8mm really, but thanks for telling me about it, that sounds like a great rifle and I hope it has a long and admirable service life as the front line rifle of the US Army, at least as long as the M14.

edit : I did say "not as much opportunity for grift" not "no grift whatsoever"

January 6 Survivor has issued a correction as of 20:15 on Nov 14, 2023

# ? Nov 14, 2023 20:13

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Honest Thief posted:

https://twitter.com/WizardSX0/status/1724468932428320872

he�s a Taiwanese spy, every telecom executive seems to be a spy

# ? Nov 14, 2023 20:27

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Honest Thief posted:

https://twitter.com/WizardSX0/status/1724468932428320872

Just on the off chance that someone out there had no idea all along:

Defending democracy = defending certain USA private monetary interests.
Democratic = pro certain USA private monetary interests

(if the qualities are identical but its for another country rather than pro-USA, then it's not democratic regardless of any other similarities)

Now get out there and defend democracy lads. Your bosses all need another corner office.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 20:30

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

The reality is that with firearms manufacturing in private hands they would be stupid to produce something like the Brown Bess or Lee-Enfield again, and sell one rifle every 100 years.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 20:47

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

How about... bullets with gps guidance? Little base bleed style setup maybe.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:09

Jel Shaker: Apr 19, 2003

eco bullets with little seeds inside so you can plant flowers and herbs as you go

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:14

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Jel Shaker posted:

eco bullets with little seeds inside so you can plant flowers and herbs as you go

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:18

Pomeroy: Apr 20, 2020

Bespoke super hot cartridges with two piece cases, that wear the rifles out faster than anything previously known to man, and that require a silencer on every rifle to be shootable, seem like a tough grift to top.

(edit: at least as far as small arms go)

Pomeroy has issued a correction as of 21:23 on Nov 14, 2023

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:21

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Frosted Flake posted:

The reality is that with firearms manufacturing in private hands they would be stupid to produce something like the Brown Bess or Lee-Enfield again, and sell one rifle every 100 years.

How about bio degradable firearms that break down with exposure to sunlight and water? It's eco friendly, save the earth and all that.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:25

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

DancingShade posted:

How about bio degradable firearms that break down with exposure to sunlight and water? It's eco friendly, save the earth and all that.

fifty billion dollar please

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:27

Officer Sandvich: Feb 14, 2010

Give Putin His Ceasefire, Get Another War

quote:

Despite all the losses from 20 months of war against Ukraine, Russia’s strategic aims remain the same. These amount to the elimination of Ukraine’s statehood and culture; the establishment of a new global order where US strength and influence are nullified; and the subordination of its vast borderlands and the cowing of Western Europe.

Putin’s regime has sought to do this with two seemingly contradictory tactics. Firstly it has tried, so far with very limited success, to subjugate Ukraine by force of arms. At the same time, it periodically indicates a willingness to consider a ceasefire.

This reflects a recognition at the highest levels that the war has caused the Russian armed forces to blister and bleed — whatever the true casualty numbers, and they are certainly horrendous — its confirmed losses in heavy war-fighting equipment, including tanks, combat aircraft, and warships are meanwhile notarized and huge.

The regime needs a pause of several years before re-starting the next round of hostilities from an improved position (Hamas is employing the same reasoning, though from a weaker position, as Israel’s ground offensive erases its military base in Gaza.)

There have been three identifiable attempts to float the idea of a pause in hostilities. The first came in September–October 2022, when Russia executed a partial mobilization, intensified missile attacks against Ukrainian cities, and worked to raise the Ukrainian army’s combat costs for its liberation of the Kharkiv and Kherson districts. The campaign was spiced, as always, with threats of far worse to come — on this occasion through evidence-free accusations that Ukraine planned a “dirty bomb” and associated nuclear saber-rattling.

...

The second attempt took place in February–March 2023 when Russia froze the New Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, completed the seizure of Bakhmut, and conducted unsuccessful offensive operations against Vuhledar.

...

The third attempt came at the beginning of October, when Russia declared its revocation of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and then launched a massive attack on Avdiivka. There were also acts of sabotage on the Balticconnector gas pipeline and undersea optical cable between Finland and Estonia and Sweden and Estonia, respectively. The three countries say the attacks were deliberate and are further investigating.

Whether or not the Kremlin was aware of the Hamas plan to attack Israel on October 7, it sent a clear signal by subsequently hosting a visit by a Hamas delegation in Moscow on October 26. At the same time, there has been a wave of antisemitic incidents across Russia and anti-Jewish propaganda on Russia’s state-owned media.

The Kremlin may well believe the Middle East conflict will soak up US diplomatic and military assets and again revive discussion of a ceasefire in Ukraine. Besides the sticks, there are also small Russian carrots: Russia has demonstrated its readiness to exclude the occupied territories from presidential elections in March 2024. And, of course, Russia is more than happy to once again become a cost-effective gas supplier for Europe.

...

As during the initial phase of Russia’s war of aggression from 2014-2022, there is no doubt that Russia would continue to strike Ukraine even after a ceasefire while employing the familiar propaganda language of necessary retaliation and the prevention of “dangerous military activity.”

Russia’s tactics of missile and drone strikes against Ukrainian cities are similar to the tactics of missile strikes that Hamas uses against Israel. And given that Russia has a deep industrial base, unlike Hamas, it is easily able through advanced missiles and loitering munitions to threaten all Ukrainian areas at all times. Ukraine will use air defense systems of course, but such a defense will require significant resources and anyway would be insufficient to achieve sustainable economic development.

...

The only way to make Russia stop its aggression against Ukraine and give up its radical strategic goals and attempts at destabilization around the world is through systemic military and financial aid to Ukraine, which allows the Ukrainian army, the army representing all democracies, to eliminate Russia’s military power and its will to fight.

Russia must be defeated. Russia cannot be allowed any relief. Russia must be made to fail. It really is as simple as that.

It is essential that the United States and its allies continue and increase their efforts. As was clearly demonstrated by Hamas during recent weeks, long breaks for radicals only stimulate deeper cruelty and the extent of subsequent aggression.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:38

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

I guess all those chickenhawks don't really grasp that losing a war has stakes as high as losing a country to annexation right.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:47

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

Hamas and Russia are basically the same, when you think about it.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:53

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Danann posted:

I guess all those chickenhawks don't really grasp that losing a war has stakes as high as losing a country to annexation right.

Nah, nobody is annexing Russia, he'll be fine.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:54

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Lostconfused posted:

Nah, nobody is annexing Russia, he'll be fine.

I will annex Russia

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:55

lumpentroll: Mar 4, 2020

Nix Panicus posted:

I will annex Russia

# ? Nov 14, 2023 21:57

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

Almost no Russian oil is sold below $60 cap, say western officials

quote:

The US-led price cap on Russia�s oil sales is being almost completely circumvented, according to western officials and Russian export data, forcing countries to explore ways to reinforce one of their key economic sanctions against Moscow.

One senior European government official said �almost none� of the shipments of seaborne crude in October were executed below the $60-a-barrel limit that the G7 and its allies have attempted to impose.

�The latest data makes the case that we�re going to have to toughen up . . . there�s absolutely no appetite for letting Russia just keep doing this,� the official said.

EU officials have held discussions in recent days on reinforcing the cap, including options for strengthening enforcement or clamping down on Russia�s access to the used oil tanker market.

Concerns among western officials are backed up by official Russian statistics on oil sales in October, which Moscow says shows the average price received was above $80 a barrel. While Russian economic statistics have been questioned during the war, the level recorded is the basis for how much Moscow taxes oil exports.

The jump in Russian prices has dealt a blow to G7 efforts to limit the funds flowing to the Kremlin to fund its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and comes as Kyiv has made only limited progress in its counteroffensive.

G7 members and Australia introduced the price cap measures for crude oil last December, aiming to squeeze Russia�s revenues by cutting off access to western services such as shipping and insurance unless traders abided by the $60 limit.

While the measures enjoyed some early success, Russia has proved adept at countering them, building up its so-called �shadow fleet� of ageing oil tankers to circumvent western markets, for example.

The average price of Urals, Russia�s main export grade, moved above the $60 limit this summer as oil prices rallied due to supply cuts by Saudi Arabia and Moscow with the wider Opec+ cartel, but a substantial portion continued to trade below that level.

But by late September the FT reported that almost three-quarters of all seaborne Russian crude flows travelled without western insurance in August, a key sign that more were starting to circumvent the cap.

In October, only 37 of the 134 vessels that shipped Russian oil held western insurance and officials say the number operating below the cap is now likely to be much lower.

European officials are concerned that some western insurance providers have been given false declarations from Russian oil companies or traders, which must provide written assurances the crude is priced below $60. One mechanism by which this has been achieved previously is by inflating shipping costs.

Western officials say they remain committed to the price cap, even as they acknowledge few barrels still trade below it.

A US Treasury official said the goal was not just an effort to �make as many barrels of oil as possible travel under the cap�, but also �to change Russia�s incentives in a way that makes it make hard choices�. Shifting to selling oil largely without western insurance and shipping has caused �great cost� to the Kremlin.

Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, a professor at the Yale School of Management who has advised the US Treasury on the price cap, said longer journeys for Russian oil tankers, higher insurance premiums, additions to port capacity and new capital expenditures had added about $36 a barrel to the cost of Russian oil sales, limiting Moscow�s profits.

G7 members have already started to step up enforcement of the cap. Last week the UK sanctioned Paramount Energy & Commodities DMCC, a Dubai-based trader, saying it had been �used by Russia to soften the blow of oil-related sanctions�.

The US Treasury department this month requested information from 30 ship management companies about 98 vessels it suspects of violating the cap, a person familiar with the matter said. The request was first reported by Reuters.

Of the 30 ship management companies contacted, 17 of them were in G7 price-cap coalition countries. Six were in the UAE, with others in India, Turkey, China, Hong Kong and Indonesia, a person familiar with the matter said.

The price Russia is getting for its oil is still below Brent, the crude benchmark which averaged $89 a barrel in October.

But Russia has been able to reduce the discount offered on its oil from as much as $40 a barrel earlier this year to less than $10 a barrel last month.

The price cap was designed to keep Russian crude flowing in global markets, as G7 members tried to avoid a supply crunch and price spike that would benefit Moscow.

Western policymakers facing elections are also keen to keep prices in check to help tame inflation. US President Joe Biden, who faces a probable re-election battle against former president Donald Trump next year, has vowed to try to keep pump prices down in the world�s largest oil consuming country.

Russia has also placed restrictions on exports of refined fuels, blaming domestic shortages but raising fears Moscow could weaponise oil supplies.

Yeah, so Russian petroleum has pretty much moved completely out of reach of Western sanctions.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 22:28

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

OhFunny posted:

Almost no Russian oil is sold below $60 cap, say western officials

Yeah, so Russian petroleum has pretty much moved completely out of reach of Western sanctions.

quote:

�The latest data makes the case that we�re going to have to toughen up . . . there�s absolutely no appetite for letting Russia just keep doing this,� the official said.

the latest data demonstrate that there is a bit of a peckishness at minimum...

# ? Nov 14, 2023 22:51

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

I feel like losing control of one of the largest oil and gas producers and creating a fully fledged secondary shipping market for oil was not the goal envisioned when western nations decided to overthrow Yanukovych

# ? Nov 14, 2023 22:57

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

Nix Panicus posted:

Crimea seceded and its people chose to join Russia.

People forget that Ukraine took Crimea by force in 1995.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 23:08

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

most people only learnt about the existence of Ukraine in 2014

then forgot again until 2022

# ? Nov 14, 2023 23:12

Nothus: Feb 22, 2001; Buglord

Pomeroy posted:

Bespoke super hot cartridges with two piece cases, that wear the rifles out faster than anything previously known to man, and that require a silencer on every rifle to be shootable, seem like a tough grift to top.

(edit: at least as far as small arms go)

yeah but it makes every Pvt. Dumbass look like a Ghost Recon Tier 1 Operator

# ? Nov 14, 2023 23:24

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# ? May 28, 2024 16:38

Cheatum the Evil Midget: Sep 11, 2000; I COULDN'T BACK UP ANY OF MY ARGUEMENTS, IGNORE ME PLEASE.

Just utterly flabbergasted at the thought that a ship owned by a wealthy sovereign power can physically sail without Lloyd's insurance. How can this be.

# ? Nov 14, 2023 23:30

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] U.S. gives up on sending $100,000 guided artillery shells due to 6% hitrate

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