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Cease to Hope posted:this is I suppose what I meant to say, is there a community that can recommend "count-as" for these games edt. oh no a new page anyone ever use those pop-up book style terrain? Upzone or Titans Terrain? anyone use the Infinity pre-made terrain?
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Nov 15, 2023 17:09
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No Luck Needed posted:I suppose what I meant to say, is there a community that can recommend "count-as" for these games I've got a pack of the Upzone terrain. It's.. all right. Sturdy enough, I expect, but doesn't have the feel of actual plastic terrain. I picked up two Mantic terrain crates on clearance at a local game store and they're way better.
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Nov 15, 2023 17:17
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Spikey Bits put out an article spitballing the costs for putting together a 3000 point LI army based on the sample armies listed in White Dwarf:quote:Strike Force Argent Spear: Jesus
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Nov 15, 2023 22:42
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Count Thrashula posted:Spikey Bits put out an article spitballing the costs for putting together a 3000 point LI army based on the sample armies listed in White Dwarf: That seems about on par for a full 40k army so... it's still insane but I'm a plastic junkie with huge nostalgia glasses!
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Nov 15, 2023 22:48
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For 200 grams of plastic 
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Nov 15, 2023 22:49
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I guess… if 2k winds up as more of the norm, you could do it for a fair bit cheaper, particularly if you avoid the harsher $-per-point kits like the drop pods. But still, that’s rough. More than 40k though, this does feel like a game where 3D printing is pretty competitive. Yes, the usual caveats about effort and whatnot apply but given the size of the minis (and how people value them compared to 28mm), the existing community, and now this cost, feels like a more attractive option than for other GW games.
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Nov 15, 2023 22:55
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I would not put any stock in Spikeybits, they're just looking for clicks. For example, I'm pretty sure the bikers and speeders will be in the same box. Drop pods will probably be like rhinos where you get a bunch in a box. Predators will come in a box of 6, the big set is getting one sprue rather than two. Etc.
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Nov 15, 2023 22:55
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... how many 8mm guys and tanks can I print from a $30 bottle of resin?
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Nov 15, 2023 23:28
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No Luck Needed posted:I suppose what I meant to say, is there a community that can recommend "count-as" for these games I use the battletech terrain and we pretend its on a planet that hadnt gotten the memo on making everything goth and lovely
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Nov 15, 2023 23:28
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Safety Factor posted:I would not put any stock in Spikeybits, they're just looking for clicks. For example, I'm pretty sure the bikers and speeders will be in the same box. Drop pods will probably be like rhinos where you get a bunch in a box. Predators will come in a box of 6, the big set is getting one sprue rather than two. Etc. Drop pods definitely come 4 in a box. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/10/19/heresy-thursday-deliver-dreadnoughts-and-shield-generators-with-more-drop-pods/
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Nov 15, 2023 23:31
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IncredibleIgloo posted:Drop pods definitely come 4 in a box. 
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Nov 15, 2023 23:43
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Randalor posted:... how many 8mm guys and tanks can I print from a $30 bottle of resin? How long's a piece of string? People always say "lol 3d print," and yeah, you can make a lot of good models very quickly that way. But you're paying for a printer, you're paying for resin. You paying for the resin you use on failures and calibrations. You're paying in time to print and cure and troubleshoot. And dealing with health risks a lot more serious than a hobby knife. It's absolutely a viable thing to do, but it's not the magic bullet people like to pretend. 3D printing is a faff. At least initially, I'd rather pay for the rules and the models I think look cool, so that there's more chance of the game succeeding. I'll print stuff later on, but for now I'll take the plastic.
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Nov 15, 2023 23:44
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:How long's a piece of string? People always say "lol 3d print," and yeah, you can make a lot of good models very quickly that way. But you're paying for a printer, you're paying for resin. You paying for the resin you use on failures and calibrations. You're paying in time to print and cure and troubleshoot. And dealing with health risks a lot more serious than a hobby knife. This is a dumb and exceedingly unhelpful post in basically every way possible in regards to the question you quoted. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 15, 2023 23:49
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Virtual Russian posted:https://miniwars.co.uk/ I love this site and it looks completely kosher to me.
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Nov 15, 2023 23:51
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Safety Factor posted:I would not put any stock in Spikeybits, they're just looking for clicks. For example, I'm pretty sure the bikers and speeders will be in the same box. Drop pods will probably be like rhinos where you get a bunch in a box. Predators will come in a box of 6, the big set is getting one sprue rather than two. Etc. Drop pods are gonna feel pretty bad value in terms of points/$, they're very cheap upgrade for a unit and effectively just terrain pieces. However that list isn't above representative of what most players would pay for an Epic army. It's like putting together a 40k tyranid army with nine $50 pyrovores, and ignoring the starter set that has twice as many points for a fraction of the cost. I think they're also initially aiming the game and people with existing AT and AI collections who'll have maybe 50% of the stuff needed for a list already.
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Nov 15, 2023 23:57
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Randalor posted:... how many 8mm guys and tanks can I print from a $30 bottle of resin? All of them. And at this scale, a community "armored space warrior" looks enough like MkVI corvus that nobody outside of a GW shop or event will give you poo poo. This feels like a massively missed opportunity. You look at something like Warlord games' epic battles line and it's where they've value-priced something that's absolutely impressive to lock players into a unique proprietary scale. It's not even worth printing 13.5 mm Napoleonics because it's less hassle to just buy them from Warlord. Man I don't know. I'll wait to see what the real prices are, and I know Spikey Bits is inflammatory bullshit, but if you can't build an army for under $300 then loving nobody is going to buy in. The game will be DOA and the boogeyman of 3d printing gets all the blame.
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Nov 16, 2023 00:00
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Bottom Liner posted:This is a dumb and exceedingly unhelpful post in basically every way possible in regards to the question you quoted. Going to have to strongly agree here. Of course you are paying for the printer, and the resin, and the files, and investing some time to get the process to work. Once you learn how to do it, though, you can easily print models faster than you can paint them, and often times you can start a print job and have the models primed and ready to paint before you would get any delivery order. Learning to use a 3D printer is not some insurmountable challenge, and the printers are becoming better every year with features that help alleviate the difficulties in printing. As for the amount of 8mm figures you could 3D print, I would have to do a few tests, but one 1kg bottle of resin seems like it would be enough to print the entire box contents. For the 1k dollars for a 3k point Army you could get a printer, wash and cure station, accessories to house everything in, files, and enough resin to print out an 3 or 4 3k point armies and a ton of other stuff. I figured it out once, that including the cost of the printer and parts, wash and cure station, etc... that if I was aiming to spend roughly the same amount per model for a 2k point Space Marine Army in 40k, with vehicles, I could print out an army in 75mm scale. And the smaller the scale the less difference there is in quality between official figures and proxy figures. Also, with 3D printing, you can make any STL print out in the new scale, so you don't necessarily have to even buy new STLs if you just want to make your 40k proxy army in miniature. The other drop pods GW has showcased are also 4 to a pack : https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/09/28/heresy-thursday-get-into-the-thick-of-it-with-tiny-drop-pods-for-legions-imperialis/
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Nov 16, 2023 00:04
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I understand the pricing from a business perspective - GW doesn't want to devalue anything, or cannibalize other lines. Just seems like this would be one where they might want to toss out some high value boxes when the competition is 3D printing, Battletech, Heavy Gear, and 20 years of alternative 6mm miniatures. ... I should put in a microworld order, they have 6mm DinoRiders now.
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Nov 16, 2023 00:16
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Bottom Liner posted:This is a dumb and exceedingly unhelpful post in basically every way possible in regards to the question you quoted. There's not a single thing in that post that he said was incorrect. 3D printing is literally a seperate hobby, if you want to print all the time, do this. If your goal is to print out an army for wargaming uhhh get someone to do it for you. The answer is "an ungodly amount" with an asterisk.
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Nov 16, 2023 00:18
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:There's not a single thing in that post that he said was incorrect. That is not a rebuttal to my post. I did not say they were wrong. I said it was a dumb post and didn't answer the question in any way.
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Nov 16, 2023 00:36
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I'm honestly wondering how well Legions is going to do when you factor in that they've already heavily implied if not outright said that it would just be 30k, Imperial vs Traitor. It's competing against Horus Heresy except that Horus Heresy models are cross-compatible with 40k. At least Adeptus Titanicus you could get away with just needing a handful of models, and the starter box got you most of the way there for a decent starting list. Dunno about the plane game though. I was making a joke about the bottle of resin, but a decent resin printer and wash/cure station run less than $500 USD on Amazon, and they go on sale for less all. The drat. Time.
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Nov 16, 2023 00:37
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Randalor posted:... how many 8mm guys and tanks can I print from a $30 bottle of resin? To actually answer your question, I just looked at one of my print files, consisting of 114 6mm mans with supports, and Lychee estimates it will take 15ml of resin to print. Another file containing one very large tank and nine ordinary tanks, all supported, is estimated to take just under 70ml, without any resin-saving techniques such as hollowing the underside of the model. Now the whole 6mm/8mm thing I'm not really clear on, whether Legions is actually a new scale that is incompatible with classic Epic stuff, or whether it's more like "Marines can be 8mm now, normal people are still 6mm."
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Nov 16, 2023 00:39
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Bottom Liner posted:This is a dumb and exceedingly unhelpful post in basically every way possible in regards to the question you quoted. I'm sorry my post upset you. I was trying to convey that it is a question with an answer that depends on a lot of varying factors, while also responding to the overall theme of "that price is too high, I'll just print" from some of the other posts in this thread. 3D printing is an exceptionally arse-achey thing to get into, you could quite easily piss away a $30 bottle of resin while trying to learn how to print. I took the comment to either be flippant, or an indication that the poster may not be familiar with the ins and outs, and therefore a general warning might be useful.
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Nov 16, 2023 00:51
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If you want one army, printing is not for you, it is way more money and hassle than buying an army off the shelf. If you want a bunch of armies for yourself and to give away to your friends, printing may be for you. If you want an army where the centerpiece giant robot has the Philadelphia Eagles logo on one side of its carapace shoulders and goatse on the other, printing is indeed for you.
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Nov 16, 2023 00:52
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Go birds
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Nov 16, 2023 00:53
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Kylaer posted:If you want one army, printing is not for you, it is way more money and hassle than buying an army off the shelf. If you want a bunch of armies for yourself and to give away to your friends, printing may be for you. If you want an army where the centerpiece giant robot has the Philadelphia Eagles logo on one side of its carapace shoulders and goatse on the other, printing is indeed for you. Exactly, as someone said, it is a hobby unto itself. If you are in to it then it compliments wargaming beautifully. If your hobby is wargaming you may find that getting into printing is akin to getting into testicular tortion in terms of fun and satisfaction.
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Nov 16, 2023 00:59
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IncredibleIgloo posted:The other drop pods GW has showcased are also 4 to a pack : https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/09/28/heresy-thursday-get-into-the-thick-of-it-with-tiny-drop-pods-for-legions-imperialis/ I still don't trust spikeybits, they're one of the worst clickbaity warhammer sites out there and they're definitely pulling stuff out of their rear end.
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Nov 16, 2023 01:06
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Kylaer posted:Now the whole 6mm/8mm thing I'm not really clear on, whether Legions is actually a new scale that is incompatible with classic Epic stuff, or whether it's more like "Marines can be 8mm now, normal people are still 6mm." I have a marine on my desk that measures 35mm tall, while this other GW human dude is 28mm. So in Epic I guess that's 7-9mm per guy. Randalor posted:It's competing against Horus Heresy except that Horus Heresy models are cross-compatible with 40k. moths posted:Man I don't know. I'll wait to see what the real prices are, and I know Spikey Bits is inflammatory bullshit, but if you can't build an army for under $300 then loving nobody is going to buy in. Personally I think the biggest obstacle to the game isn't the pricing, it's the weirdly arbitrary 30% allies rule. The starter box comes with about 2/3rds of a list, but for some reason they decided that an army has to be 70% marines or 70% auxillia, then everything else goes into the remaining 30%. My local group is gonna house rule that to be no more than 30% titans, because it seems like the main reason the rule exists is to stop you running boring all-titan skew lists. Most of the best value (in terms of points/$) aren't out yet; those will be things like the Leman Russ or Malcador tanks. Adding two or three boxes of these (or Sicaran / Kratos tanks) to the starter set gets you fairly close to 3000 points, depending how strict you want to be with allies. Factor in retailer discounts and I'm sure <= $300 will be possible.
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Nov 16, 2023 01:07
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LI strikes me as one of those games that's definitely going to exist without me ever interacting with anyone who plays it except in this thread tbh e: I called this shot in the last thread and I think it still holds Cease to Hope posted:The issue with Epic was always that GW hasn't been able to figure out a good way to package and sell 5mm miniatures. Not 5mm-scale miniatures, like titans and aircraft and such, but stands of 5mm tall dudes or tanks smaller than your dice. The original Epic armyboxes worked (and propped up the game until its final death), but they didn't really allow for customizing your army the way people wanted to. Until they figure out how to sell a single 5mm Land Raider or squad of Space Marines, or make a game that doesn't make people want to buy a single unit, I don't think Epic is going to happen. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 01:28
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xtothez posted:Personally I think the biggest obstacle to the game isn't the pricing, it's the weirdly arbitrary 30% allies rule. The starter box comes with about 2/3rds of a list, but for some reason they decided that an army has to be 70% marines or 70% auxillia, then everything else goes into the remaining 30%. My local group is gonna house rule that to be no more than 30% titans, because it seems like the main reason the rule exists is to stop you running boring all-titan skew lists. what's the point in that house rule when your army has to be 70% from the primary list, either marines or aux? e: are titans allies or parts of the marines/aux lists?
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Nov 16, 2023 01:47
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Randalor posted:... how many 8mm guys and tanks can I print from a $30 bottle of resin? A couple thousand and then some, no joke. Epic models are incredibly easy and low work to print/clean as well. Most don't even need supports so you just pop off, dunk in ipa a couple times, g2g.
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Nov 16, 2023 02:15
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goodness posted:dunk in ipa a couple times, g2g. Finally a good use for IPAs
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Nov 16, 2023 03:29
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The allies restriction is, I think, a holdover from E:A where Imperial armies' titans and imperial navy assets were hard capped at a point percentage.
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Nov 16, 2023 03:38
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Have there been any articles or reviews that really dig into how the LI rules work and how the game plays?
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Nov 16, 2023 03:49
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Kylaer posted:Have there been any articles or reviews that really dig into how the LI rules work and how the game plays?
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Nov 16, 2023 05:21
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If you want to save money, you can cut circles out of cereal boxes and draw unit symbols on those
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Nov 16, 2023 06:48
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Siivola posted:If you want to save money, you can cut circles out of cereal boxes and draw unit symbols on those Some of us have ASL and WiF, which has more than enough symbols and units.
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Nov 16, 2023 07:55
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trying to figure out what the NATO symbol for terminators is
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Nov 16, 2023 07:57
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Eediot Jedi posted:what's the point in that house rule when your army has to be 70% from the primary list, either marines or aux? e: are titans allies or parts of the marines/aux lists? The house rule would be up to 30% on titans, 70% minimum for anything else. Basically the limit is flipped around. It means that: a) entire starter box can go into a playable army, rather than having to leave out some marines or guard b) it's easier for the existing Epic scale players to use their current knights, titans, & aircraft c) people many other units to fill out their list while waiting on unreleased models Kylaer posted:Have there been any articles or reviews that really dig into how the LI rules work and how the game plays? They did a few rules articles over the summer, they're all covered here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/07/everything-you-need-to-know-about-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-legions-imperialis/
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Nov 16, 2023 08:54
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Siivola posted:If you want to save money, you can cut circles out of cereal boxes and draw unit symbols on those Commander Crunch fires his Megabolter at Commander Cheerio- it hits, he’s blown into Reese’s Pieces!
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Nov 16, 2023 10:24
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