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Alrighty!
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Nov 12, 2023 22:48
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thotsky posted:That blog seems a bit over the top. I mean, even if you agree with the general thesis that cis people shouldn't "play" with gender expression, how is it the comics fault that strapless strapons are not particularly good for loving? I agree that the blog really seems over the top. Everyone draws their own line, and the blog author and I draw mine differently. However: the comic about how sexy Erica sees trans men is sufficient for me to write her off completely. The woman in the comic is a chaser: interested in trans people only because they are trans. It is incredibly objectifying, and it's about something many trans people are not super excited about, so it's nails on the chalkboard for many of us. And at that point I *still* have a really high bar about where I'll draw the line, but she manages to firmly cross it by showing a guy object to being treated this way, whereupon she blows him off with "I wouldn't objectify you if you weren't so ridiculously hot". I could use that comic as a "what is a chaser and why do some people find them objectionable?" teaching aid. It's horrific. Sorry to bring up an old topic, but I'm both in agreement that the blog is over the top, and I'm genuinely flabbergasted at how bad that comic is. DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Nov 13, 2023 |
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Nov 13, 2023 04:08
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I'm not a fan of Erica's work either. However, Erica has been open that they suffer from immense mental illness to the point that they are seeking outpatient therapy. So I feel it's best to give them a wide breadth.
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Nov 14, 2023 17:00
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I think it’s worth reiterating that, outside of clear cases of dangerous and explicit chaser behavior (ie somebody who seeks out sexual relations with trans people while also being transphobic/anti trans/etc, for example, or who use dating trans people of the opposite gender as a proxy for being gay) a good part of the line between “this person is a chaser and that’s bad” and “this person is extremely sexually attracted to/gratified by their partner’s body and that’s good” is up to one’s personal experiences and feelings
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Nov 14, 2023 18:33
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A chaser is someone who is into trans people because all they want is a chick with a dick, or the opposite. That simple. If you are with a girl because she has a dick, thats just gross as gently caress and fetishizing the hell out of us
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Nov 14, 2023 18:51
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Also, what do we call the opposite of chick with a dick? Bro with a beaver?
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Nov 14, 2023 18:52
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I'm pretty sympathetic to people with those attractions, one of my first relationships after coming out as trans was with someone who saw himself as a chaser and absolutely hated himself for it (to the point of cutting, it was really bad). He wasn't a bad guy, and I have a lot of sympathy having gone through that with him. However, in this comic she shows a guy object to being treated this way, and she blows him off with "I wouldn't objectify you if you weren't so ridiculously hot". It isn't ignorance, it's just straight up unabashed fetishism of trans people, despite someone objecting.
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Nov 14, 2023 20:30
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RFC2324 posted:A chaser is someone who is into trans people because all they want is a chick with a dick, or the opposite. That simple. If you are with a girl because she has a dick, thats just gross as gently caress and fetishizing the hell out of us Is the negated version of this problematic? I am currently using Feeld for dating and a ton of cis people on there say they find queer people hot, and are sometimes explicitly into queer people only. Presumably there's a political/communal element at play there too, but aesthethics/novelty seems to be part of the appeal. I kind of figured that the author of the comic had a similar thing going on, but I only read a few of them a long time ago so. thotsky fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Nov 14, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 20:52
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i'm uninterested in unpacking the intricacies of my gender and sexuality with a straight cis person. queer/trans people tend to have done some examining of these things already, and moreover, they'll take my word for it
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Nov 14, 2023 21:04
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RFC2324 posted:Also, what do we call the opposite of chick with a dick? I get the impetus for the convo/joke but I don't think finding new phrases for the cis to coopt and reduce us to our genitals, us being the the trans community as a whole, is a worthwhile venture. Ok Comboomer posted:I think it’s worth reiterating that, outside of clear cases of dangerous and explicit chaser behavior (ie somebody who seeks out sexual relations with trans people while also being transphobic/anti trans/etc, for example, or who use dating trans people of the opposite gender as a proxy for being gay) a good part of the line between “this person is a chaser and that’s bad” and “this person is extremely sexually attracted to/gratified by their partner’s body and that’s good” is up to one’s personal experiences and feelings I think you are naive on the forms of danger that chasers can present, but I'm also not trying to do a ton of epistemic labor on this subject in mixed company. I just ask that you not try to define what forms of behavior are problematic in a way that minimizes the statements of others. Especially as what appears to be apologia for that bullshit chaser-rear end comic. That was directly a trans person expressing a boundary and the artist saying "gently caress your boundaries i wanna objectify you" That is transphobia because its saying we can be treated without regard for the emotional response it will create because we're hot. that's loving gross. DeadlyMuffin posted:I'm pretty sympathetic to people with those attractions, one of my first relationships after coming out as trans was with someone who saw himself as a chaser and absolutely hated himself for it (to the point of cutting, it was really bad). He wasn't a bad guy, and I have a lot of sympathy having gone through that with him. I actually like it when people are attracted to me, but I want them to be attracted to me because of my personality not because of the equipment that I spend so much of my time trying not to let define me. thotsky posted:Is the negated version of this problematic? I am currently using Feeld for dating and a ton of cis people on there say they're into queer people, and sometimes explicitly queer people only. Presumably there's a political/communal element at play there too, but I assume aesthethics/novelty is part of the appeal? Like, are they grandfathering in transphobia kind of thing? I'm not sure i fully understand the scenario you're describing so please do not take any of this as my fully formed opinion. 1.Do they explicitly say they are cis? 2. What do you mean "grandfathering in transphobia"? 3. What do you mean by "aesthetics/novelty?" 4. Not all queer people are trans, are you saying these are cishet folks? Grassy Knowles fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Nov 14, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 21:06
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Grassy Knowles posted:I'm not sure i fully understand the scenario you're describing so please do not take any of this as my fully formed opinion. 1. Feeld doesn't provide that option, but they're not identifying as trans. 2. Presumably their attraction includes trans people, and seeing as they're explicitly not into cis straight people, their "transness" must be part of the appeal, which is chasing and therefore transphobia. 3. I guess I mean libidinal attraction? Like, whatever makes them feel that queerness is hot rather than just "this is my tribe". 4. Surely some of them are, but I figure there's a huge spectrum at play.
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Nov 14, 2023 21:25
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Grassy Knowles posted:I actually like it when people are attracted to me, but I want them to be attracted to me because of my personality not because of the equipment that I spend so much of my time trying not to let define me. Couldn't agree more.
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Nov 14, 2023 21:43
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thotsky posted:1. Feeld doesn't provide that option, but they're not identifying as trans. 1. Not all trans people are going to explicitly state they are trans, these folks may not be as cis as you think 2. This is a v complex thing that I'm only going to bring up three aspects of that may challenge your view. A. There is absolutely the tribal aspect; I do not want to be with someone who doesn't share in a view of the world with me. I don't know almost anyone who isn't in some way 'queer,' and I'm not trying to change that. B. There are forms of marginalization that you don't necessarily want to explain to your partner(s), both being queer allows assumption of a common experience beyond a common culture/tribe. C. There are forms of marginalization that are applied upon us whether we choose to or not. If I were to be in a relationship with a cis man, chances are he would be able to do whatever he wants to me with little to no social repercussions. That's a risk I'd like to avoid, though also being attracted to personality and viewpoints it is rare if ever that a cis man sneaks into my interest. 3. The only time I see folks who 'chase' this experience is in the case of unicorn hunters. Or folks who are queer themselves and trying to get foothold into their identity, ig. I don't think it's a common enough issue to worry about 'queer' chasers as someone who has been some form of queer beyond trans her whole life. 4. I think covered in 1. But to add on, just because they're looking for a mixed gender relationship right now doesn't mean that they don't also engage in same gender relationships. tl;dr--I think you're well intentioned but getting hasty in casting judgement upon others. It's nice that you're keeping these things in mind though, it's quite appreciated when folks have done a lot of this unpacking of themselves.
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Nov 14, 2023 22:00
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thotsky posted:1. Feeld doesn't provide that option, but they're not identifying as trans. To address this, I am pretty exclusively t4t at this point in my life. Most of it comes down to the fact that other trans people don't define my transness by my genitals. I hate the drat poo poo I have down there, even acknowledging it in bed is likely to provoke an hour long freak out about how much I hate my body. Anyone who is attracted to me based on that is in for an extremely bad time, and will be giving me an extremely bad time. I can't even refer to it by name without having to fight back tears. Do you see why anyone who is attracted to me because of what I have is a danger to me?
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Nov 15, 2023 17:28
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RFC2324 posted:Do you see why anyone who is attracted to me because of what I have is a danger to me? I see it. That makes sense, and I am sorry you're having a tough time of it. It helps a lot that your experience and rules for living are different from those of other people who have posted here. I guess where I get lost on this is that when discussing people being problematic, people tend to throw out "correct" standards of thought and behavior with the implication that if everyone would just reflect on them enough, they would realize an underlying internally consistent logic and these problems would all be solved. Even posts in this thread advocating for a more permissive approach to sexuality or gender issues adopt this language of there being an obvious truth that people are missing or forgetting, and it gnaws on me when the conflicts and faultlines are so numerous and obvious. I seem to have internalized some kind of expectation that queer people should be unified on this, but thankfully, it is not sitting right with me. Sexuality is incredibly complex and personal even when you leave out gender issues. While reflection is useful, I now think the underlying issues probably can not be fully addressed by unpacking personal ideology; they might be a symptom of the oppression queer people face, and would therefore be as unique as their experiences.
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Nov 15, 2023 18:55
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thotsky posted:I see it. That makes sense, and I am sorry you're having a tough time of it. It helps a lot that your experience and rules for living are different from those of other people who have posted here. The underlying internal consistent logic is "treat people as people, not as things." Chasers are bad because they only care about specific bodyparts, not the person attached.
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Nov 16, 2023 11:46
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This kind of feels like poop that I shouldn't touch but I think there's a pretty big difference between finding a physical quality sexually attractive and only being interested in someone because they have that physical quality and forcing them to acknowledge that without prior consent. Sexual attraction is not something we have direct control over. Finding someone hot is not a conscious decision. If I find redheads particularly attractive, there's nothing objectionable about only asking redheads out. It doesn't make me a "redhead chaser." Even if I see a redhead and think to myself "oh man that redhead is so hot," that's not a problem - that's normal. It's objectifying, but it's also something totally out of my control. We objectify people constantly. The person cashing me out at the grocery store is an object to me - they exist to take my money in exchange for goods. But it's fine because I am also an object to them. We are both objectifying each other - caring about literally every person we come across beyond their function to us at the moment is impossible. But we also consented to that because that's how a grocery store works and we both knew that going in. It becomes a problem when it's one sided and the other side is forced to face that objectification unwillingly. That can happen in a lot of ways. Ogling someone is an example of that. So is cat calling. Thoughts aren't doing that, and neither is swiping right on only people who are [x] on Tinder. I'm sure people exist that are so enlightened that they enjoy sex but never have impure thoughts about other people's genitals, but that sure as hell isn't me. RFC2324, I'm going to spoil this in case talking about dysphoria is triggering. Also, I'm going to apologize in advance for what is admittedly a rough analogy because I legitimately can't think of a way to get my point across without it so please don't focus too much on the comparison itself. RFC2324's thing is a little more complicated because being attracted to someone with gender dysphoria feels (to me) kind of like being attracted to someone with cancer. There's nothing wrong with being attracted to someone who has cancer, and there's also nothing morally wrong, per-se, with being exclusively attracted to people with cancer (though I really hope that's not a common fetish because oh boy). Telling someone you are super into their cancer is really hosed up though. Don't do that. Also, don't go around saying you jack off to the Mayo Clinic website because it's going to make a lot of people really uncomfortable and that's the bad part. Just keep that poo poo to yourself! Edit: Organza Quiz posted:The underlying internal consistent logic is "treat people as people, not as things." Chasers are bad because they only care about specific bodyparts, not the person attached. I think the first half of this is correct and the second half is less correct (but not completely wrong). "Treat people as people" is really the important part because how we treat people is external and directed. Going back to the grocery store example, it's why we say "how are you?" to the clerk even though we don't actually care. We both know neither person cares, but we go through the motions to act like we do because it establishes that we're treating each other as people (even if we're not actively thinking about it). Caring is different though. Caring is a lot more effort than pretending to care. But pretending to care is honestly good enough for 90% of casual human interaction*. Actually telling someone you're objectifying them is breaking that illusion and treating them as an object, so that's bad. *Being in a relationship with someone is not casual interaction and one person actually caring but the other person only pretending to care is problematic for totally different and hopefully obvious reasons. But it does start as casual interaction and I think saying you started talking to that stranger at the bar because you care about them as a person and not because you thought they were hot is a total lie and everyone knows it. KillHour fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 12:44
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KillHour posted:This kind of feels like poop that I shouldn't touch You’re correct in the statement I’ve quoted. You’re wrong in assuming everyone thinks like you and I’m mostly saying this to convince people who are not you and might read this conversation. The way you speak to your internal experience with an assumed universality means I don’t trust that you’ll listen to me in this conversation or in conversations as a romantic interest because it shows a full disbelief in the possibility of thinking the way I do. This acts as an example of how I need to know I can talk with someone to be attracted to them. I’ve had multiple year relationships with other women where we talked for months romantically before meeting and never shared photos in that time. A person doesn’t need to know that I have a banging bod’ to know i’m hot. I’m not meeting these women thinking “i hope she’s hot.” They’re already hot.
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Nov 16, 2023 14:17
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Physical attraction is a thing, and genital preference is valid, but if you are with someone because of their genitals you are a chaser. To use the redhead analogy: would you date someone just because they have red hair, is it a requirement? Or is it just an extra nice bit that you wouldn't be upset if they dyed to make themselves happy?
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Nov 16, 2023 16:43
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KillHour posted:Caring is different though. Caring is a lot more effort than pretending to care. But pretending to care is honestly good enough for 90% of casual human interaction*. Actually telling someone you're objectifying them is breaking that illusion and treating them as an object, so that's bad. Pretending to care about someone for sex is kinda hosed up, op. Outside of this discussion about chasers, it's kinda hosed up.
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Nov 16, 2023 19:09
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Who gives a gently caress about what bits someone has? It says absolutely nothing about their personality, hobbies, interests, what music they're digging, and ultimately just about everything interesting about them. I might be showing my bi/pan colors here, but the only interest I have in someone's bits is if they're interested in doing stuff, and if they know what kind of self-pleasure they're into - then I can learn about what they like, and hopefully figure out a way to give them what they want, if they do. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 19:45
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Grassy Knowles posted:You’re correct in the statement I’ve quoted. I'm not saying everyone thinks like me. I'm saying literally the opposite - that there is no wrong way to think. I have no interest in dating someone I am but physically attracted to and I cannot become physically attracted to someone based solely on their personality. That is not true for everyone, but you are straight up saying that I'm somehow bad or immoral because it is true for me. BirdOfPlay posted:Pretending to care about someone for sex is kinda hosed up, op. Outside of this discussion about chasers, it's kinda hosed up. I literally said this exact thing, yes. BlankSystemDaemon posted:Who gives a gently caress about what bits someone has? Yes, your bi colors are showing. Literally most people care and most people would not have sex with someone that has the bits that they don't prefer. RFC2324 posted:Physical attraction is a thing, and genital preference is valid, but if you are with someone because of their genitals you are a chaser. This is as ridiculous as saying that a gay man should be okay with sleeping with a cis woman if she presents as masculine ("dyes her hair"). It completely erases sexual orientation and that's  No, I would never date someone with a penis. I have no interest in doing so and that's okay because it's literally my prerogative to not date someone for any reason whatsoever. KillHour fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 21:12
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KillHour posted:I'm not saying everyone thinks like me. You literally said KillHour posted:I think saying you started talking to that stranger at the bar because you care about them as a person and not because you thought they were hot is a total lie and everyone knows it. KillHour posted:Yes, your bi colors are showing. Literally most people care and most people would not have sex with someone that has the bits that they don't prefer. you came stomping into a conversation centering trans experiences to shove your cisnormativity and genital preference in our faces. No one is telling you to have sex with anyone. There are trans woman lesbians there are trans men who love men and their lovers are no less the orientation they claim for it. Sit down and shut up if this is what you have to contribute.
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Nov 16, 2023 21:24
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RFC2324 posted:Physical attraction is a thing
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Nov 17, 2023 00:36
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I’m physically attracted to The Thing
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Nov 17, 2023 04:52
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Rock hard buns
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Nov 17, 2023 05:06
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KillHour, in the nicest possible way, please stop loving talking. For everyone's sake.
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Nov 17, 2023 10:33
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♫ Don't go chasing genitals Please stick to the boobies and the butts that you're used to I know that you're gonna post about it or not post at all But I think you're making it weird EDIT: jeez, tough crowd -- 24 hours and not even an empty quote or pity reply! i hope at least some lurker appreciates my parody lyrics. here's the song i was referencing, in case somebody didn't get it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WEtxJ4-sh4&t=117s Helianthus Annuus fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Nov 18, 2023 |
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Nov 17, 2023 16:12
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And now for something (hopefully) completely different. My wife has expressed an interest in sex coupons for a Christmas gift (we've been married a while and new gift ideas are hard to come by). I'm fine with this. Anyone have a coupon book they'd recommend? If not I might go with this one on amazon. We're pretty vanilla but it's maybe a little tame even for us. I wouldn't mind something 1 step hotter on a scale of one to ten. The best answer might be to get a blank coupon book and DIY.
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Nov 21, 2023 05:12
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LLSix posted:And now for something (hopefully) completely different.
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Nov 21, 2023 05:28
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I feel like you should be able to find places that will print custom coupon books. What should go in there is kinda down to you and your wife though. Also I guess the staff doing the printing get a window into your sex life. But they probably do sex coupon books all the time.
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Nov 21, 2023 05:33
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Have you considered sex NFTs
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Nov 22, 2023 08:15
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Discendo Vox posted:Have you considered sex NFTs All techbros are non-fuckable, there's no need to make a subcategory.
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Nov 22, 2023 11:44
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Non-Fuckable Techbros.
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Nov 22, 2023 15:28
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Where's a good place to start getting information about/shopping for sex toys suitable for use with a penis? SO is going through some medical stuff and won't be down for intimacy for a while, but I'm worried about getting cheapo stuff that'll fall apart or something. Only thing on my radar is this classic but out-of-production one with strong internal structure and an incredibly goofy theme: (NWS, obvs) https://i.imgur.com/3VqLzVE.png (I know, what's the point of sex at all if it can't be with that glorious piece of merchandise, but I'll soldier on regardless)
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Nov 26, 2023 02:49
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John Lee posted:Where's a good place to start getting information about/shopping for sex toys suitable for use with a penis? SO is going through some medical stuff and won't be down for intimacy for a while, but I'm worried about getting cheapo stuff that'll fall apart or something. Only thing on my radar is this classic but out-of-production one with strong internal structure and an incredibly goofy theme: you mean like a tenga egg or fleshlight? tbh none of those were ever better than just using a hand, IMO
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Nov 26, 2023 03:38
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I've had a fleshlight for like 10 years and I've used it maybe 15 times. It's not bad, but you can't vary pressure like you can with your hand, so I occasionally use it for novelty and the rest of the time it lives in a drawer. Tenga egg might be better, but I've never tried them. If you're trying to find something to create a more special or more pleasurable masturbation experience, try engaging other parts of your body. A vibe on the perineum might be nice, a lot of people like nipple stimulation, and if you're open to it, butt stuff can be really great. If you're trying to have an experience with your partner (it wasn't clear from your question if they would be involved or not) then your options are basically endless. There's so much sex you can do that isn't just tab-A-into-slot-B sex.
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Nov 26, 2023 08:15
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IIRC Tenga eggs have a short shelf life. It’ll get used once or twice, maybe three times, within a span of a few days or weeks and at that point it won’t really be usable anymore no matter how much you try to clean it/rehydrate it/etc. And if you let it sit in storage after opening the packaging it’ll likewise become unusable over time. A former partner and I picked one up with some other sex toys about a decade ago and it was in the garbage by the end of like two weeks and I never felt the desire afterward to buy another.
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Nov 26, 2023 08:28
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more falafel please posted:I've had a fleshlight for like 10 years and I've used it maybe 15 times. It's not bad, but you can't vary pressure like you can with your hand, so I occasionally use it for novelty and the rest of the time it lives in a drawer. Tenga egg might be better, but I've never tried them. Your mileage may vary wildly. Weekly use on average and the inability to vary pressure has never been an issue.
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Nov 26, 2023 08:47
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more falafel please posted:I've had a fleshlight...can't vary pressure Ok Comboomer posted:IIRC Tenga eggs have a short shelf life. Yes, the eggs are not really intended to be used in multiple sessions, but the Tenga website has an entire separate category of reusable devices (maybe "50 uses"), most or all of which would allow varying pressure/sensation in some way: https://www.tenga.co/products/reusable/ I've used a number of those both with and without a partner's involvement, and generally been pleased. dirby fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 09:43
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