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IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Pikey posted:

Update:

Some time after the hood fails, it will turn back on (can be minutes to days, no pattern). When the hood was on and working, I measured the voltage and everything looks good: 120 between hot and ground or neutral, 0 between ground and neutral. When I turn the fan on and then run the oven at the same time for several minutes, the power cuts out to the hood.

After the power cut off to the hood I measured the voltages again and got REALLY weird numbers:

Hot to ground 119 V
Neutral to ground 122V
Hot to Neutral 3V

What the hell is going on? What can cause the voltages to vary like that?


Are those measurements taken with the hood still wired in / still turned on, but inoperative? Because if so that sure looks like an open circuit somewhere on the neutral between the hood and the main panel - you have line voltage to and through the hood, but no path for it to return.

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Pikey
Dec 25, 2004

IOwnCalculus posted:

Are those measurements taken with the hood still wired in / still turned on, but inoperative? Because if so that sure looks like an open circuit somewhere on the neutral between the hood and the main panel - you have line voltage to and through the hood, but no path for it to return.

No, those measurements are taken from the wiring coming out of the wall, NOT still wired into the hood.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Pikey posted:

No, those measurements are taken from the wiring coming out of the wall, NOT still wired into the hood.

That's enough to stop using that circuit. You probably have rubbed out/stapled through wire insulation making partial connections as things heat up on that circuit somewhere. It could even be just right at the box/box clamp because someone was in there messing with it and it was just enough to cut through the jacket and almost bridge connections depending on thermal load.

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think

I have two light switches in my garage (one by the garage door and one by the door to the house) which both operate the ceiling lights. My assumption is they are both three way switches.

If I wanted to put a motion sensor switch on one, it has to be a three-way, correct? Otherwise I’d lose the ability to have the other switch operate? I’m guessing I can’t use a single pole motion sensor switch.

Edit: looks like I could, but I’d have to disable the other switch.

https://pocketsparky.com/knowledgebase/convert-3-way-switch-to-single-pole/

nwin fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Nov 12, 2023

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

nwin posted:

I have two light switches in my garage (one by the garage door and one by the door to the house) which both operate the ceiling lights. My assumption is they are both three way switches.

If I wanted to put a motion sensor switch on one, it has to be a three-way, correct?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lutron-Maestro-Single-Pole-3-Way-White-5-Amp-Occupancy-Vacancy-Sensor/3531524 ?

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think


That’s what I need. I bought this by accident:

Your friend has shared a link to a Home Depot product they think you would be interested in seeing.



https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Maestro-Motion-Sensor-Switch-2-Amp-Single-Pole-White-MS-OPS2H-WH-MS-OPS2H-WH/203202128

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

nwin posted:

Your friend has shared a link to a Home Depot

No friend of mine would dare.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Motronic posted:

That's enough to stop using that circuit. You probably have rubbed out/stapled through wire insulation making partial connections as things heat up on that circuit somewhere. It could even be just right at the box/box clamp because someone was in there messing with it and it was just enough to cut through the jacket and almost bridge connections depending on thermal load.

Yeah, it's professional time, you've got a fire hazard lurking somewhere.

Elem7
Apr 12, 2003
der
Dinosaur Gum
Does anyone know what kind of energy usage AFCI breakers use above and beyond regular breakers?

I replaced my main panel back in late September and I used AFCI breakers where appropriate which I'd never had before. I noticed immediately they produced a slight buzz and ran hotter than regular breakers. Since all of them did this I wasn't to concerned and figured it was from whatever circuitry made them AFCI breakers but then the thought occurred to me recently, if they're running hotter, they must be using some electricity just sitting there idle, how much though? Google is failing me, I can find confirmation that it is totally normal that they run hotter, evidently a lot hotter in the case of early examples, but I'm not seeing anything about how much energy they use. I'm just curious, however much it is I'm not about to tear out $1500 worth of AFCI breakers over it.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
https://www.se.com/us/en/faqs/FA122790/

800mW, 0.6kwh/month

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran



That is an order of magnitude more than I expected. Great info!

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

That is an order of magnitude more than I expected. Great info!

It had not occurred to me to think they used power before now.

Elem7
Apr 12, 2003
der
Dinosaur Gum
Around $3 a month at my rates, so not much, but its interesting to think that's the equivalent of having over a dozen nightlights plugged in all over my house and running 24/7. Thanks.

SpeedFreek
Jan 10, 2008
And Im Lobster Jesus!
Quiz time, how do you ground a cabinet?

A. Crimp a lug on the cable, remove light duty cable clamp from ground stud, attach to ground stud and torque nut appropriately.

B. Attach to one of the two 8-32 screws on the light duty cable clamp and use a ton of washers for the 3/8 hole in the lug.

C. Drill a hole in one of the pieces of unistrut, bolt the cable to that, mount the cabinet on rubber vibration pucks keeping it electrically isolated from the strut.

corgski
Feb 6, 2007

Silly goose, you're here forever.

Definitely C, that sounds like an extremely effective grounding method.

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


SpeedFreek posted:

Quiz time, how do you ground a cabinet?

A. Crimp a lug on the cable, remove light duty cable clamp from ground stud, attach to ground stud and torque nut appropriately.

B. Attach to one of the two 8-32 screws on the light duty cable clamp and use a ton of washers for the 3/8 hole in the lug.

C. Drill a hole in one of the pieces of unistrut, bolt the cable to that, mount the cabinet on rubber vibration pucks keeping it electrically isolated from the strut.

D. Cabinets are made of wood and don't need to be grounded.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

SpeedFreek posted:

Quiz time, how do you ground a cabinet?

It's sitting on the ground isn't it? What more do you need?

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
I have a UPS that has been tripping over to battery at least once a week lately. It's usually just for a few seconds and then back. I'm not noticing any other problems, no clocks need to be reset or anything. The server it's attached to has a event log, and the input voltage is logged when switching to or from battery. It's all normal, 120-124V.

Is there a inexpensive power quality meter I could use that might confirm if the APC is faulty or if I have an actual but minor power problem? Or should I do something cheap and basic like replace the outlet?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Guy Axlerod posted:

I have a UPS that has been tripping over to battery at least once a week lately. It's usually just for a few seconds and then back. I'm not noticing any other problems, no clocks need to be reset or anything. The server it's attached to has a event log, and the input voltage is logged when switching to or from battery. It's all normal, 120-124V.

Is there a inexpensive power quality meter I could use that might confirm if the APC is faulty or if I have an actual but minor power problem? Or should I do something cheap and basic like replace the outlet?

Do you happen to have/do any home automation stuff? Lots of the zwave/whatever plug through switches log voltage, frequency and current draw. That's probably the cheapest way I can come up with to monitor power quality.

Of course, if this isn't a legit SmartUPS but one of the consumer ones it's almost definitely what's bad.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
How old is the battery in it? If it's more than 3 years start by replacing it. If you have any high draw devices it could be tripping it over as well. (My laser printer pretty reliably trips my ups.)

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
The utility says this:
code:
battery.mfr.date: 2021/01/15
device.mfr: American Power Conversion
device.model: Back-UPS RS 1500MS2
input.sensitivity: medium
input.transfer.high: 147
input.transfer.low: 88
I do have a laser printer on the same outlet, but not on battery. I did a test print and the voltage did drop to 110, but didn't trip over to battery.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
It could be legitimately detecting transient sags. Do you have any other big motor loads? (Hvac?)

It might also just be failing. Consumer ups' are widely speaking garbage. If you're lucky it's just a lovely "in the box" battery and not something worse.

I would test it out - unplug it. Let it run to 50% capacity and plug it back in. If the battery is shot it won't last. (You need to know how long it is supposed to last fresh.) Otherwise shut it down and open the battery compartment and remove the battery. If it's swelling or otherwise wrong it should be obvious. Got a meter? Leave it on the counter for a few hours and meter it. Should be like 13.xv (I forget). If it's 12.5 or lower you're looking at a new battery.

Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


If you leave the monitoring utility running on it the software should record the cause of the last transfer.

Is it possible that you are just noticing the weekly test now? Maybe it used to be during a time you didn't notice and you or a legitimate power outage somehow reset the time it conducts the test?

I have that same UPS fwiw.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
The internal monitoring showed a good battery voltage, but I could load test it.

I can't think of any big loads that would have fired up at 2:30 this morning. It's cold here now, and I have gas heat. Maybe the NAS waking up? It only has 4 disks and seems to stage them to limit the inrush current.

I'm due for a smart meter to be installed soon. I doubt it's the incoming power, but if it was could I see that from a smart meter? I don't know how smart they really are.

e:

battery.type: PbAc
battery.voltage: 27.4
battery.voltage.nominal: 24.0

input.transfer.reason: input voltage out of range

I'm going to reset the event count, that should tell me if it's a test or not, I think.

Guy Axlerod fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Nov 22, 2023

Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


Around here there are periods of time where mine will transfer over to battery about once a week or so just from random poo poo happening on the grid nearby. I'll be sitting working, the lights will dim slightly, the UPS will click over and back, and if I pull up the outage map 10-15 minutes later there will be something nearby.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Guy Axlerod posted:

The internal monitoring showed a good battery voltage, but I could load test it.

input.transfer.reason: input voltage out of range

I'm going to reset the event count, that should tell me if it's a test or not, I think.

The internal voltage monitor is garbage unless you're testing it. Input voltage out of range is not a self-test. Either way load test it. Otherwise, ignore it. You've disabled the alarm, right? Because gently caress that noise.

Withnail
Feb 11, 2004
I want to hard-wire a 6ft section of led strip lights to a dimmer switch. What's my best option? The walls are open right now, so I have pretty much any option.

I see this https://www.amazon.com/HitLights-Driver-Dimmer-Integrated-Switchex/dp/B07GX5FK4C which seems... expensive...

opengl
Sep 16, 2010

I used this + a Lutron lamp dimmer so I could control it remotely, but you could easily put it behind a normal dimmer switch too https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082XWC7LJ

dweepus
Nov 25, 2021
My power was out for ~7 hours the other day, which lead me to get gas for my generator to run my fridge and save my food. Not the end of the world but annoying enough I was thinking about alternatives. I was inspired by my father in law's DIY solar power system and got to thinking. Could I (safely) put a 12v battery and power inverter in my utility room, and wire some Romex from that inverter to a new outlet behind my fridge? I would have to measure the power usage of the fridge and size the battery appropriately of course. But if it could at least give me something to coast off of for a few hours instead of having to buy gas and fire up the generator, it would be pretty convenient.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
Can you convert your generator to propane?

Either way - short answer no. But you could just run an extension cord to the inverter when the power is out. Odds are your string of batteries will be dead by then though. How often does this happen?

dweepus
Nov 25, 2021
It's just a small portable gasoline generator, so I'd imagine it's not built for conversion? This doesn't happen super often, so I'm probably better off just doing what I've been doing. An extension cord from the inverter to the fridge isn't a deal breaker, considering I have to use an extension cord for the generator anyway :shrug: Can I ask why the answer is no? My electrical knowledge is.... Not great so I'm always looking to learn

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

dweepus posted:

Can I ask why the answer is no? My electrical knowledge is.... Not great so I'm always looking to learn

It's basically that.

You're feeding an outlet that isn't killed by your main breaker (or your service meter.) Once you are doing that you need to do a lot of other things to make sure it's safe. As stated it's not super dangerous assuming your inverter has a method to hardwire loads, but it's not really something you can off the cuff do in a grid-tied house. There's too many "and then make sure..." things that it's not really possible to do it safely.

Know this though - that lead acid battery has a 3-5 year shelf life and will fail quietly. Assuming you only need one that's $250 per time period, plus panel, inverter, etc. Just buy a few gallons of Stabil gas for the generator and a repeating calendar reminder to use it every year or two. Then you have it when you need it.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

H110Hawk posted:

Know this though - that lead acid battery has a 3-5 year shelf life and will fail quietly. Assuming you only need one that's $250 per time period, plus panel, inverter, etc. Just buy a few gallons of Stabil gas for the generator and a repeating calendar reminder to use it every year or two. Then you have it when you need it.

12V battery probably isn't going to last terribly long anyway. I've heard the fun thing to do is pick up a used EV battery and rig that up, but that's like engineer level difficulty.

$75 per ~3.5gal of trufuel will last a pretty long time unopened (manufacturer says 5 years, I'd imagine it's more)

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007
Hair Elf

dweepus posted:

It's just a small portable gasoline generator, so I'd imagine it's not built for conversion?

Post your generator make and model. There's probably a conversion kit available.

dweepus
Nov 25, 2021
Generator is a Firman W2000i. As far as the battery goes, would it be any better to use a LiFePo over a lead acid for this hypothetical?

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

dweepus posted:

Generator is a Firman W2000i. As far as the battery goes, would it be any better to use a LiFePo over a lead acid for this hypothetical?

Yup. Anker has been heavily advertising a kit for this.

From a fun and cool standpoint its what I would buy. From a cost, including sunk cost, standpoint buy $100 in shelf stable fuel, a can of starting fluid carb cleaner, and call it a day.

Epitope
Nov 27, 2006

Grimey Drawer
My garage has two man-doors. The light switch is by one door. I want another switch by the other door. Does it work to run the wire on top of the drywall, in conduit or whatever? The existing switch is in a behind-the-drywall box. Can I mount the surface box over that box, or is there a box extention or something? Will this be hard, should I just call an electrician?

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Epitope posted:

My garage has two man-doors. The light switch is by one door. I want another switch by the other door. Does it work to run the wire on top of the drywall, in conduit or whatever? The existing switch is in a behind-the-drywall box. Can I mount the surface box over that box, or is there a box extention or something? Will this be hard, should I just call an electrician?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/SkyLink-Wireless-DIY-3-Way-On-Off-Lighting-Control-Wall-Switch-Set-White-SK8/204177975 seems to solve your problem quite nicely.

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002

Epitope posted:

My garage has two man-doors. The light switch is by one door. I want another switch by the other door. Does it work to run the wire on top of the drywall, in conduit or whatever? The existing switch is in a behind-the-drywall box. Can I mount the surface box over that box, or is there a box extention or something? Will this be hard, should I just call an electrician?

That wireless solution would be quick, but to answer your question, yes, there are surface mount extension boxes that you mount on existing in wall boxes that allow for a starting point for conduit. Your two hard wired options would be plain old conduit or wire molding.

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Epitope
Nov 27, 2006

Grimey Drawer

Oh sweet, ya that's perfect. Thanks!

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