uber_stoat posted:

apologies in advance

GoodluckJonathan posted:

I'm getting hung up on this.

1. Israel is merrily blowing up school, hostpitals, houses, and random civilians as *the entire world* looks on. (DTI)

2. Genocide Joe has no interest in actually stopping them, and seems set on doing the bare minimum to... I don't even know... placate his staffers? He certainly doesn't seem to care about public opinion.

3. The neighboring Arab nations nominally sympathetic to Palestine(Turkey, Iran, Lebanon) do not have the economic, military, or political strength to engage Israel while it's backed by the US and their carriers.

4. Every day the ongoing genocide gets more depraved, horrible, and nightmarish

5. "Pressure continues to build" on European and American politicians to do something and yet... what exactly is the threat? They seem to think that no matter how mad people get over foreign policy, at the end of the day domestic issues are what's going to matter at the ballot.

So. Where does that leave things? The two powers capable of stopping Israel, namely the US or neighboring Arab states, for two seperate but intractable reasons are completely unwilling to do so.

I agree that Israel's actions seem completely unsustainable,but I'm struggling to imagine a scenario which causes it to end. Getting rid of the Netanyahu gov't, which seems to be where the US is pivoting, hardly seems likely to change anything on the ground.

Real hurthling! posted:

[Haitians] fully paid france off finally after like 230 years of unjust reparations for stealing themselves from their owners iirc.

mawarannahr posted:

just burger posting some american columnist like there are no rules

Al! posted:

the us president wrote a letter to the newspaper saying "we're going to dictate the terms, the palestinian authority is going to run gaza and america is going to ban extremism(!!!) in the west bank"

The Voice of Labor posted:

I'm fine with letting nonstate groups do the fighting. it's the same "I'm not touching you" horseshit 'merica does with private defense contracting and special ops and extraordinary rendition. if you need to let the militia fight and keep the regular army out so that you can maintain a superior position in the eyes of "international law", so be it. that's the poo poo world capitalist imperialism has left us with and the righteous oppressed people of the world will always use whatever tools are left better than their demon oppressors

HallelujahLee posted:

Lol insane

Al! posted:

pretty wild that the president of the evil empire openly said "we are the most important country and we actually do run the west bank, gaza, and ultimately israel, and here is what is going to happen:" and ultimately people are getting bogged down in dead guy cum

Al! posted:

hahaha wtf

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/18/joe-biden-gaza-hamas-putin/






this whole oped is psychotic

PawParole posted:

https://twitter.com/snarwani/status/1725859238805705199

Weka posted:

Turkey and Iran are predominantly Turkish and Persian respectively, not Arab.
Arab dictators includes Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the gulf states, who are largely close American military allies. Qatar deserves special mention as it tries to straddle both worlds diplomatically, hosting for instance a Hamas political mission and previously hosting the Taliban government in exile.
Turkey is a democracy and also straddles the fence somewhat but is realistically committed to NATO. It has one of the two strongest militaries in the middle east (the other is Iran) but is more interested in the ethnic cleansing of Armenians than helping people with no money to help it.
Syria under Assad is another Arab dictatorship, although they have been consistently anti Zionist. They are still in a devastating civil war including regular Israeli bombardment but nevertheless have made some attacks on Israel.
Iraq is an Arab democracy which has a number of militias backed by Iran under the Popular Mobilization Forces banner which have been attacking American occupation bases in Iraq. Syria has similar militias, also attacking bases in Syria.
Lebanon's government is non functional, Hezbollah are based there and are a political party and large Iran backed militia.

None of these last three are really build to make large scale attacks which gain significant territory, they are primarily defensive. Defense seems to have a strong advantage with the current state of military technology and theory, as can be seen in the Ukraine war. The one thing attackers are still very capable of is long range fires, either massed and relatively inaccurate or targeted against infrastructure etc. This is something America still has strong capabilities at. It is also something they and Israel are fairly good at defending against, but there is a hard limit to stocks and production capabilities of air defense missiles.
Nobody wants to trigger a huge bombing campaign against themselves but slowly ramping missile attacks can drain supplies of air defense missiles while putting pressure both on American bases and Israeli infrastructure like the oil terminal that Ansur Allah (Houthis) hit.

They control about half of Yemen and are a primarily Zaidi (Yemeni ethnicity/religion/tribal confederation) group who have been up until recently fighting a long civil war with direct involvement from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, USA and Al Qaeda on behalf of the "internationally recognized government". They are still experiencing a devastating famine caused in large part by the US led blockade. They are also supported by Iran. It seems like they cannot be defeated in Yemen but would find it difficult to even get large numbers of fighters out of the country.

Iran has preferred to work through these proxy groups, which has been pretty successful, with Syrian and Iraqi militias being key to defeating ISIS. Open involvement in these regional conflicts is just asking for Israel to increase their ongoing bombing and assassination campaigns within Iran, possibly with more direct American help. Also, Iran's economy is not doing so well, they are very heavily sanctioned.

Did I miss anyone?

Radical 90s Wizard posted:

Al! posted:

hahaha wtf

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/18/joe-biden-gaza-hamas-putin/






this whole oped is psychotic

Al! posted:

pretty wild that the president of the evil empire openly said "we are the most important country and we actually do run the west bank, gaza, and ultimately israel, and here is what is going to happen:" and ultimately people are getting bogged down in dead guy cum

Al! posted:

pretty wild that the president of the evil empire openly said "we are the most important country and we actually do run the west bank, gaza, and ultimately israel, and here is what is going to happen:" and ultimately people are getting bogged down in dead guy cum

Radical 90s Wizard posted:

Weka posted:

Turkey and Iran are predominantly Turkish and Persian respectively, not Arab.
Arab dictators includes Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the gulf states, who are largely close American military allies. Qatar deserves special mention as it tries to straddle both worlds diplomatically, hosting for instance a Hamas political mission and previously hosting the Taliban government in exile.
Turkey is a democracy and also straddles the fence somewhat but is realistically committed to NATO. It has one of the two strongest militaries in the middle east (the other is Iran) but is more interested in the ethnic cleansing of Armenians than helping people with no money to help it.
Syria under Assad is another Arab dictatorship, although they have been consistently anti Zionist. They are still in a devastating civil war including regular Israeli bombardment but nevertheless have made some attacks on Israel.
Iraq is an Arab democracy which has a number of militias backed by Iran under the Popular Mobilization Forces banner which have been attacking American occupation bases in Iraq. Syria has similar militias, also attacking bases in Syria.
Lebanon's government is non functional, Hezbollah are based there and are a political party and large Iran backed militia.

None of these last three are really build to make large scale attacks which gain significant territory, they are primarily defensive. Defense seems to have a strong advantage with the current state of military technology and theory, as can be seen in the Ukraine war. The one thing attackers are still very capable of is long range fires, either massed and relatively inaccurate or targeted against infrastructure etc. This is something America still has strong capabilities at. It is also something they and Israel are fairly good at defending against, but there is a hard limit to stocks and production capabilities of air defense missiles.
Nobody wants to trigger a huge bombing campaign against themselves but slowly ramping missile attacks can drain supplies of air defense missiles while putting pressure both on American bases and Israeli infrastructure like the oil terminal that Ansur Allah (Houthis) hit.

They control about half of Yemen and are a primarily Zaidi (Yemeni ethnicity/religion/tribal confederation) group who have been up until recently fighting a long civil war with direct involvement from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, USA and Al Qaeda on behalf of the "internationally recognized government". They are still experiencing a devastating famine caused in large part by the US led blockade. They are also supported by Iran. It seems like they cannot be defeated in Yemen but would find it difficult to even get large numbers of fighters out of the country.

Iran has preferred to work through these proxy groups, which has been pretty successful, with Syrian and Iraqi militias being key to defeating ISIS. Open involvement in these regional conflicts is just asking for Israel to increase their ongoing bombing and assassination campaigns within Iran, possibly with more direct American help. Also, Iran's economy is not doing so well, they are very heavily sanctioned.

Did I miss anyone?

Pomeroy posted:

https://twitter.com/akela_lacy/status/1725702072316608737?t=K_jo32iumtr2xe0HKhxfTg&s=19

quote:

At the Legal Aid all-staff meeting on Thursday, Carter, the CEO, said the resolution was antisemitic. “These statements call for the elimination of the state of Israel and the annihilation of the Jewish people,” Carter said. “You don’t have to agree, but that’s how some of our colleagues feel, and some of our supporters.”

“Accusing Israel of being an apartheid state and of genocide are all dog whistles for antisemitism,” she said. She suggested Jewish readers of the statement might see it the same way Black people would see pro-police sloganeering: “And, again, as a Black woman, my closest analogy is hearing how people talk about ‘blue lives matter’ or other things that land on me differently.”

quote:

Last week, heavily armed settlers from the settlement of Yitzhar, near Nablus, vandalised and sabotaged the water supply on which the nearby village of Madama depends.

The latest poisoning is the seventh of its kind during the past three years, according to village officials.

GoodluckJonathan posted:

Really appreciate the corrections and info. I also hadn't realized the Houthis actually hit anything.

Al! posted:

the us president wrote a letter to the newspaper saying "we're going to dictate the terms, the palestinian authority is going to run gaza and america is going to ban extremism(!!!) in the west bank"

OctaMurk posted:

IDF southern command chief: ‘We see clear Hamas presence in all hospitals’

Sherbert Hoover posted:

when you genocide
and your husband died
who you gonna call?
ghost busters!

GoodluckJonathan posted:

I'm getting hung up on this.

1. Israel is merrily blowing up school, hostpitals, houses, and random civilians as *the entire world* looks on. (DTI)

2. Genocide Joe has no interest in actually stopping them, and seems set on doing the bare minimum to... I don't even know... placate his staffers? He certainly doesn't seem to care about public opinion.

Lpzie posted:

just over there *vaguely points at window*

Weka posted:

Nobody wants to trigger a huge bombing campaign against themselves but slowly ramping missile attacks can drain supplies of air defense missiles while putting pressure both on American bases and Israeli infrastructure like the oil terminal that Ansur Allah (Houthis) hit.

CheetoVonTito posted:

Would one assume Hamas and Hezbollah are tiring Israel out or exhausting their arsenal?

Pohl posted:

I'm only going to address point #2. His entire cabinet and staff posted an open letter saying they wanted this genocide to end. So its lol, this is all Biden.

Thoguh posted:

lol, no they didn’t. There are clearly some low and mid level staffers that are opposed to what is going on but as a whole the entire cabinet is on board with this. Buttigieg was just in Isreal last week and why the gently caress is a Catholic Transportation Secretary going to Israel right now. They’re all behind him. There is no leash on Israel.

PawParole posted:

https://twitter.com/snarwani/status/1725859238805705199