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If it was so bad it haunts him to this day I do feel kinda bad but there's little point in taking it out on the unreal series, honestly
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Nov 19, 2023 03:00
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Milo and POTUS posted:If it was so bad it haunts him to this day I do feel kinda bad but there's little point in taking it out on the unreal series, honestly You'd think he'd know that we'd be willing to give an Unreal single player game a shot twenty years after Unreal II was... itself. Or at the very least we'd eagerly devour a remastered Unreal, or that he could probably sign off on a source code release for it now that we're so many years out from the last commercial release of a Unreal 1.x engine game.
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Nov 19, 2023 04:16
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John Murdoch posted:Remember them announcing the UT3 remaster and then canceling it a week later. Hasturtium posted:I still want to know what the hell that was.
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Nov 19, 2023 04:19
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Wouldn't surprise me if Tim just sees the Unreal games as diluting the Unreal Engine brand and memory-holing it in every respect is just a bit of tidying up.
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Nov 19, 2023 04:43
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If that was the case he would only memory hole unreal 2
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Nov 19, 2023 04:46
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site posted:If that was the case he would only memory hole unreal 2 He strikes me as the kind of engineer who gets tunnel vision on whatever his focus is at the moment, and looks at his own prior work as stepping stones to where he is, not as art whose memory should be kept alive - except as it relates directly to what he's doing now. Other than sharing a name and some probably incidental amount of low-level code, Sweeney probably doesn't particularly care because Unreal came out 25 years ago. I actually tried to like Unreal II a lot, but I should have spent that time playing Halo.
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Nov 19, 2023 04:49
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Hasturtium posted:You'd think he'd know that we'd be willing to give an Unreal single player game a shot twenty years after Unreal II was... itself. Or at the very least we'd eagerly devour a remastered Unreal, or that he could probably sign off on a source code release for it now that we're so many years out from the last commercial release of a Unreal 1.x engine game. The OldUnreal devs that have released updated/ported versions of Unreal and UT99 do have source code access, but under some kind of draconian closed-source NDA that prevents them from doing anything particularly interesting with it  At least they run on modern machines and higher resolutions
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Nov 19, 2023 05:29
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https://twitter.com/JacobJanerka/status/1725867837171134941?t=zN6Xb1ADJ_MKb2QFS0LcCQ&s=19
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Nov 19, 2023 15:38
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Guillermus posted:https://twitter.com/JacobJanerka/status/1725867837171134941?t=zN6Xb1ADJ_MKb2QFS0LcCQ&s=19 lmao My most recent Unreal story is downloading the most recent UT that I believe was unfinished on epic games and not being able to play it because my comp sucked and by the time I upgraded Unreal was dead in all its forms so I had a pretty sizeable download that was harder to remove than it should have been
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Nov 19, 2023 15:50
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their heart was never in it with the cancelled UT game, it was meant primarily a dogfood project for UE4, and UT was just a convenient base they had lying around to build it on
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Nov 19, 2023 15:59
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Sure but I'd like to play it for more than 5 minutes to get a feel for it myself. I will say I didn't like the new arc of the flak cannon alt
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Nov 19, 2023 16:44
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I did have high hopes for UT4, some of the maps were really fun and it played at least as well as anything since UT99, if not better. I guess it was probably never gonna happen since the arena shooter as a whole is pretty dead, still sucks though. I mean they were basically outsourcing the development to the fans anyway, it felt like they should've just let us old fogeys keep it around.
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Nov 19, 2023 17:30
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https://twitter.com/geistboy1/status/1725960891512869317
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Nov 19, 2023 17:58
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Nov 19, 2023 18:00
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Why are arena shooters not popular anymore? Its not the weapon pickup thing.
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Nov 19, 2023 20:28
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I think it was the attitude. People couldn't handle it.
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Nov 19, 2023 20:31
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Vic posted:Why are arena shooters not popular anymore? this conversation has been many times over the years...I think the biggest sticking point is matchmaking vs browsing for servers. Matchmaking means you can hit a big Play button and have a decent time (if the matchmaking is designed right). Server browsing is just more involved plus you may just get owned for an entire night and have a bad time. You also gotta be a bit more social with it kinda, and maybe chat with people and learn schedules instead of just zapping into games to shoot for 20 minutes and leave. It's a pretty different mentality.
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Nov 19, 2023 20:35
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Joining a Half-Life server last night filled with dumb sound effects and crazy maps was an experience I didn’t know I needed to revisit.
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Nov 19, 2023 20:46
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In Training posted:
Ha, you're wrong. I think youll find i get owned quite thoroughly in MM too
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Nov 19, 2023 21:06
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Server browsers don’t kill a game by themselves. TF2 was servers only for years and years before they introduced a quick play option and it’s regularly had tens of thousands of players for more than a decade. Conversely Halo Infinite had matchmaking only until they introduced customs, and despite getting huge playercounts at launch is now down to a fraction of that after two years, even though the game has only really improved since that time. Quake Live added matchmaking and it didn’t magically cause Quake to become the biggest game online again. I do think ownage is the problem. the biggest part of it that first impressions matter. If some kid who’s never played a multiplayer shooter in life before logs on to TF2 because of seeing a meme video where a voice bot trained on TF2 Sniper says “a 2008 Toyota Corolla”, said new player will probably die a lot but also probably get a couple kills, and almost certainly experience comic mayhem. In short there’s a real possibility of fun. Same player experiencing a Quake game or Quake clone for the first time is going to eat poo poo constantly and probably not even understand what’s going on, let alone have fun. And the second time, and the third time, etc. These are demanding games which often don’t do a good job of introducing you to their mechanics because they’re made by people who know it all already. If you’re not bhopping everywhere at minimum, you might as well not even show up—and that’s before you even start to get into the other stuff you need to learn to be good at any mp shooter. In games like that you kind of need to have been in at the start. When a lot of people were in at the start, it’s really good! But stuff like that requires marketing campaign and sustained development to bring in the fresh players and keep them happy-ish. word of mouth within the community that’s already playing those games won’t do the trick. And the marketing doesn’t happen because money counts, and the people who put up money for mp games would like to make buckets of money off microtransaction consumers and would probably prefer a less aggressive gameplay experience to accompany their digital mall-jewelry stand than “repeatedly get fisted by Q3/UT vets every time you log on.”
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Nov 19, 2023 21:16
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Someone posted a pretty decent length video essay talking about it recently and they were younger I think. I think they were talking about the learning curve being a huge part of it, with just movement tech alone being difficult enough to dissuade newbs, who'd obviously get creamed and that's no fun at all. On the bright side there do seem to be a lot of movement heavy fps games out and on the horizon so maybe that'll change. Hell Ultrakill is shockingly huge for basically an indie shooter and that game is like, all movement tech.
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Nov 19, 2023 21:27
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In addition to the matchmaking issue, games that are team based are popular because there is less pressure to perform well, and still feel like you won (if your team won). And objective based games give something to do to players whose noscope 360 skills aren't the greatest, so team, objective based like Overwatch or Battlefield can be more popular.
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Nov 19, 2023 21:31
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I’ve been working my way through Dario Casali’s playlist of him replaying Half-Life, and it’s really cool. I’m watching his “On a Rail” video now, and it’s funny to see him having the same problems all of us probably had in our first play through. Multiple comments about the maze like layout and brutal “around the corner” ambushes from both HECU and Aliens. Another interesting comment was that Power Up was one of the first chapters they blocked out and completed very early on in development, so that’s why it looks very Quake-like. It’s actually charming to watch someone play the game who doesn’t instantly know what to do or is bunny hopping around and 100mph. 
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Nov 19, 2023 21:43
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Turin Turambar posted:In addition to the matchmaking issue, games that are team based are popular because there is less pressure to perform well, and still feel like you won (if your team won). It also gives you someone to blame if your team loses!
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Nov 19, 2023 21:43
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:I’ve been working my way through Dario Casali’s playlist of him replaying Half-Life, and it’s really cool. I have never really had a problem with on a rail lol
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Nov 19, 2023 21:43
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Milo and POTUS posted:I have never really had a problem with on a rail lol I remember getting lost during it and not being able to progress for a long time, but I was also ~11 years old at the time of my first HL play through and it was one of my first fps games, so I’m sure that’s why. The ambushes are pretty brutal though if you don’t know where they are ahead of time, especially on Hard.
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Nov 19, 2023 21:51
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playing through HL1 again is really fun. The difficulty ramps up insanely about midway through. There’s still some amazing set pieces in it. What a classic.
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Nov 19, 2023 22:33
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It's my vote for single best setting in a video game or at least FPS games. Black Mesa is just a loving cool place. You kind of imagine poo poo like that really exists.
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Nov 19, 2023 22:38
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Everything y'all mentioned are problems current shooters have to deal with. The server vs matchmaking thing is completely unrelated. You click play in Overwatch, you're playing a 12/12 team deathmatch of sorts. Also movement tech is a thing in modern shooters i don't get it.
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Nov 19, 2023 22:40
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Milo and POTUS posted:It's my vote for single best setting in a video game or at least FPS games. Black Mesa is just a loving cool place. You kind of imagine poo poo like that really exists. I’d forgotten about so much of the science lab stuff, it’s sooo good
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Nov 19, 2023 22:40
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Old school arena shooters are failing to catch on because they aren't keeping in mind the idea that fans will want to make porn of their characters when designing them
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Nov 19, 2023 22:45
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I think another facet of modern shooters is that you can have your cake and eat it too by making a core objective/team mode (or a big budget singleplayer campaign) and then tacking on a half-baked deathmatch mode. But if your game is deathmatch ONLY you have to really be on the ball in terms of design and marketing and player retention. At this point it's been a near-universal problem across genres - fighting games, RTSes, whatever - that if all you offer is a sink or swim experience then you'll court the exact same more or less static audience who's already bought in by default and get gently caress and all for new blood. Compare and contrast Street Fighter 5 vs. Street Fighter 6. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Nov 19, 2023 |
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Nov 19, 2023 22:50
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site posted:Old school arena shooters are failing to catch on because they aren't keeping in mind the idea that fans will want to make porn of their characters when designing them  https://i.imgur.com/VSiYPSE.png
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Nov 19, 2023 22:51
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:It’s actually charming to watch someone play the game who doesn’t instantly know what to do or is bunny hopping around and 100mph. I just wished he learned how to headcrab dodge! He gets so much health whittled down by not strafe dodging or even angle strafing towards them. I also laughed that he picked up the most important anti-HECU gun on hard (357) and proceeds to forget he has it for like an hour.
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Nov 19, 2023 23:02
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Milo and POTUS posted:It's my vote for single best setting in a video game or at least FPS games. Black Mesa is just a loving cool place. You kind of imagine poo poo like that really exists. Yeah, one of the cool things about Black Mesa as a setting is that it lends itself to countless stories. There can always just be “another” area of Black Mesa that a mod or expansion pack can explore. I mean, it’s a a shady government research facility…the possibilities are endless. Crustashio posted:I just wished he learned how to headcrab dodge! He gets so much health whittled down by not strafe dodging or even angle strafing towards them. I also laughed that he picked up the most important anti-HECU gun on hard (357) and proceeds to forget he has it for like an hour. Haha yeah, I recall in one of the first videos he mentions changing the strafe modifier mid-game. This lends me to believe he may be using some “non-standard” control scheme. He also did start playing fps games well before Half-Life. Old habits…
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Nov 19, 2023 23:43
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Nothing comes up in this link, which disappoints me because I was looking forward to seeing porn of my favorite characters
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Nov 20, 2023 00:09
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:Yeah, one of the cool things about Black Mesa as a setting is that it lends itself to countless stories. There can always just be “another” area of Black Mesa that a mod or expansion pack can explore. I mean, it’s a a shady government research facility…the possibilities are endless. He mentioned in the hazard course video he uses ASXC...somehow. That kinda boggles my mind and I'm an ESDF guy.
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Nov 20, 2023 00:09
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Vic posted:Everything y'all mentioned are problems current shooters have to deal with. The server vs matchmaking thing is completely unrelated. You click play in Overwatch, you're playing a 12/12 team deathmatch of sorts. It’s not that people don’t want to play games with movement tech. It’s that they don’t want to have to learn it by playing against people who now have potentially decades more experience than they do. Quake 3/UT clones are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If they make a game where the movement tech works like late 90s arena FPS, then theyre basically trying to import some subset of its veteran playerbase who promptly stomp all the pubs with their advantage, and the crowd moves on. (Warsow, Nexuiz, Toxikk, Diabotical, probably others) If they make a game where the movement tech isn’t like late 90s arena FPS, then what’s the draw, who is it even for? It’s a much harder sell and still has to confront all the usual issues of trying to get a multiplayer game off the ground. site posted:Old school arena shooters are failing to catch on because they aren't keeping in mind the idea that fans will want to make porn of their characters when designing them not sure about their latter day descendants, but you can’t accuse Quake/Unreal character designers of not spending enough time thinking about porn. skasion fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Nov 20, 2023 |
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Nov 20, 2023 00:14
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TF2's continued success long after most other multiplayer games of its time have died off can be attributed to many many factors, but I think a big part of it is that its core gameplay while still having a lot of the same DNA as the arena shooters it evolved out of also tweaked and modified a bunch of it to both better accommodate the team based objective oriented gameplay but also to make things a lot simpler for a new player to be able to hop into the game
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Nov 20, 2023 00:42
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I feel like the elephant that you guys aren't mentioning is the fact that COD4 came around with its dopamine-hook of loadouts and weapon grinding, mechanics that work directly contrary to arena shooters'. Suddenly, not having a carrot-and-stick RPG system was considered old and outdated and every multiplayer game tried to do what COD was doing.
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Nov 20, 2023 00:55
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