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Gonna use this page snipe for selfish purposes: I interviewed on Friday for a role I really want. Final interview (I think) with the person making the hiring decision, but not who would be my hiring manager (i would partner with this person but report to someone else). I haven't heard anything back yet. I sent the interviewer a follow-up thank you note after the interview, but should I follow up at all with the TA person (my primary contact throughout the process) or hiring manager (Head of HR)? If so, is there best practice on when? I guess I want to demonstrate enthusiasm, but I also don't want to look needy (even though I totally am). What's a typical response time from final interview to offer (or declination) and is there usually contact in the interim? All of the other final interviews I've had have been through an external recruiter, so there was a sidebar of communication going the whole time. ultrafilter posted:It makes sense for a fairly senior role but below that level it is a little funky. There are many good culture-related questions one can ask, I just think "what are you looking for in a culture?" is lazy and not constructive. Maybe this is why EtM related it to 'rear end-in-seat' jobs, as it suggests the person just wants you to BS at them for the purpose of moving you along. Chewbecca posted:I've started to track my applications in a spreadsheet, just because the jobs were starting to blur into each other. I note down their status (applied, application in process, rejected), the date they close, contract length etc. It reminds me that I'm working hard on these applications and tickles the part of my brain that likes outcomes. This is good practice - jobs blurring into one another is a real thing. I have a big ol' job hunting spreadsheet that has tabs containing all the variations of all the bullet points I've used to facilitate customization, and one tab is a table of all of my applications, tracked by Org / Role / Application date / Whether it's a role I want to follow up on later if I have the recruiter or hiring manager's info / Result. Because I primarily use LinkedIn, I also link each role to its original posting, so I can easily reference it if I need to brush up before an interview, or see how many applicants it's racked up, etc... Habibi fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Nov 15, 2023 |
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Nov 15, 2023 19:01
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SouthShoreSamurai posted:There are quite a few headhunters that make their $ selling their "contacts". And to hear that it is spilling into other industries makes me want to barf. There is nothing inherently wrong with lead generation or selling leads as long as the leads are quality and the service providers are vetted… but job hunters shouldn’t have to pay or bid for access for the opportunity just to interview. The amount of trash and overall decline in the recruitment industry was noticeable even before COVID. There is a lot more overlap between **unscrupulous** recruiters, realtors, and MLM huns. melon cat fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Nov 15, 2023 21:30
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Yeah I definitely link to the original job ads, it's handy to have a frame of reference when someone calls you saying "I'm Sally from x corp" and you have that small moment of panic of "what the gently caress is x corp" lol It's a good idea to include other information too, like selection criteria, I end up trawling through my older applications looking for the one I want. I think I'll edit today to include - thanks for the suggestion!
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Nov 15, 2023 21:30
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melon cat posted:literally the business model of "find a contractor" websites like Homestars, except they call is "lead generation". I think I've fallen into this trap a few times by applying for jobs that just got filled. Mind you I'm still receiving email notifications from LinkedIn asking me to apply - which shits me every time I get it
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Nov 15, 2023 21:32
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I hate that I am the thread killer, but anyway. As its Friday I thought I would share a job application round up to see how I compare to other people and to celebrate my wins. This week I applied for 7 jobs Contacted recruiters about 3 more that had already been filled I had 2 recruiters approach me about the same job - I said yes to the first one within 15 minutes of receiving the email, but the role was filled within 4 hours of it being advertised - which is insanity but here we are! I think I wrote some killer cover letters today, so fingers crossed for me goons  How has your week looked, fellow job lookers and employment seekers?
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Nov 17, 2023 04:27
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I got pharma offers but got an offer for a residency spot with consultant track I really liked so picked that. No more interviews
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Nov 17, 2023 09:03
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Chewbecca posted:I hate that I am the thread killer, but anyway. I have an interview with what I'll describe as "the perfect position" for my skillset, am going to have to decline if offered because of details that I wasn't informed of until after starting the process.
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Nov 17, 2023 15:20
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nomad2020 posted:I have an interview with what I'll describe as "the perfect position" for my skillset, am going to have to decline if offered because of details that I wasn't informed of until after starting the process. That sucks. Happened to me a few months ago. Brought in to run a warehouse, 2 hours into the interview we're wrapping up after he's told me he wants to bring me on... he casually mentions "just want to make sure you know we're 24 hours, so you'll have to be available to work all shifts." The listing had stipulated 7am-3pm shift. I've never ended an interview so fast. gently caress your bait and switch, rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 17, 2023 15:39
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Yes, that is an excellent example of a situation where it's okay and even advisable to say "go gently caress yourself with a rusty poleaxe" to your interviewer before you leave.
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Nov 17, 2023 16:00
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yes, that is an excellent example of a situation where it's okay and even advisable to say "go gently caress yourself with a rusty poleaxe" to your interviewer before you leave. Interviewer: Hey this is actually a weekend position working 4-10s, does that work for you? Eric: go gently caress yourself with a rusty poleaxe
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Nov 17, 2023 16:02
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There would first be a pregnant pause and meaningful expression while I wait in the longshot hope that he was just taking the piss. But then yes, exactly! There's no reason to give a poo poo about offending someone at a company you just realized you will never in a million years even consider so much as talking to again. That kind of bait-and-switch can't be called out loudly or rudely enough. What a nightmare it is to work for a company that does that poo poo.
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Nov 17, 2023 16:03
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I'm usually "is better to be unreasonably polite than burn a bridge" but honestly a lot of these guys don't even realize how hosed up their work-life is and need to get called out.
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Nov 17, 2023 16:19
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CarForumPoster posted:Interviewer: Hey this is actually a weekend position working 4-10s, does that work for you? I'm the opposite, that's a dream shift to me. The bait and switches are the positions that are listed as 24/7 but come interview time they only have day shift available.
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Nov 17, 2023 16:48
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Lockback posted:I'm usually "is better to be unreasonably polite than burn a bridge" but honestly a lot of these guys don't even realize how hosed up their work-life is and need to get called out. “Lazy rear end millennials!  “
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Nov 17, 2023 18:22
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I had a recruiter reach out to me about a 6-12 month contract to hire position that was basically two separate jobs in one that aren't especially related, though as it happens I have experience with both, and I'm trying to just say yes to everything until I get to the point of getting an actual offer, for the practice. We had a brief teams chat, then he wants me to record a 3 minute introduction video, fill out this nebulous "skills matrix" (literally just a blank table, wants me to list my skills and rate my experience with them), and then sends me a stupid AI proctored skills assessment. I actually went through the skills assessment to try and get a better handle on the position, but all 3 asks felt ridiculous to me, and how pushy he was to me about getting everything done ASAP made me finally tell me him I didn't think this was respectful of my time and that I wouldn't be completing these chores for him.
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Nov 17, 2023 19:48
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I had a guy insist that I fell short because I couldn't wear enough different hats (horseshit). I did a tech screen challenge that was a stretch and got everything right, I think. I got one hiring manager really enthusiastic about my skillset and they may change the job description to better suit me. Let's hope, anyway. Expecting to have six weeks of total ghosting and for positions to be closing as finance people get scared about Q4.
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Nov 17, 2023 20:17
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bort posted:Expecting to have six weeks of total ghosting and for positions to be closing as finance people get scared about Q4. This is what scares me, I have worked in enough corporate places to know we are getting into "let's leave it until next year" season, and that starts earlier every year!
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Nov 17, 2023 21:14
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"Why did you apply to this position?" Full disclosure you guys called me. So anyways I'm waiting for that Monday rejection email. Part time graphic design job for local government, if they are calling people at the end of November that means poo poo has piled up and they need bodies to get the work done. The instance I hear the "I only want to work with people I can see myself hanging out with" line I die because these people never look like me. The beer test is the loving worst. If they just did a phone screening instead of a Teams meeting I'd have at least saved the money on a haircut.
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Nov 18, 2023 01:39
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I've started in my new place and I see why some of the pushback to owner statements I gave in the interview landed me the role. All the other people on my team are 8-15 years younger than me and full of "I HAX EVERYTHING!" beans. I appear to have been hired... to be the responsible adult  Of course the 80/20 utilisation rate seems to not be as iron clad as they mentioned pre-hire, so depending on how things shake out I may be back on the market in February.
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Nov 18, 2023 01:48
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Arquinsiel posted:I appear to have been hired... to be the responsible adult Its hosed up when you get to this stage in life right? Like I just got arrested for street racing....13 years ago?! gently caress its been 13 years since that?!
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Nov 18, 2023 03:48
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I bet management won't like it when the responsible adult says that working their kids flat out will result in them burning out and quitting.
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Nov 18, 2023 04:24
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You say that like they don’t know.
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Nov 18, 2023 05:11
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Why email out a job rejection at 4pm on Saturday  It's gotta be automated, as I doubt anyone in HR is working on Saturday. I don't know if that fact makes it better or worse 
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Nov 18, 2023 06:07
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Had a former boss connect me with a place that had an opening that was great but max of their listed salary range would be a 10% pay cut. I went for beers with the hiring manager this week because why not. Dude was wooing me hard which is such a switch from the normal job hunt crap. Against my usual practice I just told him what I made and implied if he could even just match it I'd jump because my current shop has a huge budget hole and is slowly sinking. No follow-up from the guy. Agh. Chad Sexington fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Nov 18, 2023 |
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Nov 18, 2023 12:51
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dpkg chopra posted:You say that like they don’t know.
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Nov 18, 2023 15:22
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Chewbecca posted:Why email out a job rejection at 4pm on Saturday
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Nov 19, 2023 07:18
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bort posted:They're working. They have to avoid their partner and children in their horribly dysfunctional family. They gotta work on the weekend Yea 60% chance it’s this Decent chance it’s an ATS that waits 3 days to send rejections because immediate ones tend to invite bad reviews and chaos makers act up
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Nov 19, 2023 17:36
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Monday morning so hitting the job application grindstone again. First job I am applying to wants me to, in the online application portal, "Please list all the subjects and results that you have completed to date. Do not include any subjects which are currently being completed. Do not include any failed subjects." I graduated more than a decade ago, do they really think I should drag out my transcript and list each individual subject? I mean, surely not right??
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Nov 19, 2023 23:35
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Chewbecca posted:Monday morning so hitting the job application grindstone again. Maybe this isnt a job for 10 years out of college people?
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Nov 20, 2023 03:01
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It's a corporate role asking for people experienced in my industry, but it's an employer that employs a lot of young casual staff as well - my assumption is that the HR portal is set up more for them than for me Or maybe I'm just going to go to the top of the discard pile because I didn't dig out my (old and irrelevant) grades 
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Nov 20, 2023 03:44
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Whenever I hit a weird application form I always just threw it in the "maybe later" pile for the end of my day. Never had any of them result in an interview though.
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Nov 20, 2023 03:50
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I have an interview for next week (not for weird uni transcript place, another role), and someone I used to work with contacted me about maybe doing some contractor work under an ABN (Australian Business Number) They told me they contacted a few people about the same opportunity, and I know nothing except an email (task, approx. hours per week), so honestly I don't love that - but I guess it doesn't hurt to email. May the odds be ever in your favour
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Nov 20, 2023 19:55
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Recruiter: "I have time for a call this Thursday or Friday" If this isn't a test it's a sign, gently caress off
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Nov 21, 2023 03:00
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Started looking at volunteer roles as a stop gap to put on my CV. Look at this requirement for an unpaid, volunteer position 
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Nov 21, 2023 04:37
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Anyone willing to pick through my resumes and figure out what the gently caress I'm doing wrong? I've been out of work since July as a telecom PC/PM. Mobile Telecom is in freefall right now depending on who you talk to. A lot of the civil firms have lost work so a ton of PMs have been let go this year. That's really all I have experience in since 2011 so I'm trying to format my resume to get into other markets but so far I've gotten several interviews to jobs that are either filled internally or never get filled due to market concerns. I don't know how to format my resume to post it here so I'm open to PM's or whatever. Not really afraid you'll steal my identity but also don't want to post my resume links for the masses.
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Nov 21, 2023 18:33
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Just redact any identifying information including names of past employers and 
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Nov 21, 2023 18:38
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Eric the Mauve posted:Just redact any identifying information including names of past employers and Fine fine.. Here we go. This has both my short-form and long-form resumes. https://imgur.com/a/7JW99aC I was told at one point that 2-page resumes were fine if the job skills were relevant, but I've had to do a lot of hopping around due to industry instability and COVID, so I have too many roles to list. Then I hear other people like "no definitely 1 page only", but to fit everything I had to drop an inside sales role I had for a couple years. For some context: On the longer form page 2 you'll see two different sets of dates, one for Project Coordinator, one for Project Administrator. I worked there from 2011 to April 2015, left, came back in Nov 2016 to a higher title and more pay, then left again in 2018, but the responsibilities were basically identical. I left off the first stint on the short form resume because the gap isn't explainable unless I put in the job I had from 2015-2016, so I don't know how to format that.. I know it looks like I've jumped around a lot, but every change from 2018 on is explainable. I left one engineering firm because I'd climbed as far as I could. I worked at the next from 2018-Oct2019 when a few things happened at the same time - Sprint and T-Mobile began their merger and stopped all active work, and a huge tower owner called Crown Castle drastically cut down their outsource vendor list and our firm didn't make the cut (27 firms slashed down to ~8 if memory serves, so a lot of firms didn't make it). So suddenly the firm's entire revenue stream dried up. We were discreetly advised by our boss to use this time to polish up our resumes.. The firm ultimately survived but a lot of people used that opportunity to get out before landing on their asses. I landed a job in October 2019 that was subsequently killed March 2020 by the COVID pandemic. My job was coordinating construction crews in the field but all work was stopped. The layoff was supposed to be a "temporary" measure until it wasn't. Just my loving luck. I was jobless until September 2020 when I got my last job where I was for almost 3 years. Then, you guessed it - In July, telecom industry instability hit again, this time AT&T deciding to stop all work indefinitely for reasons unknow. Supposedly it has something to do with their revenue stream being based on loans or something? I don't know.. All I know is it cost me my job along with 20% of my department, and they're currently on their third or fourth round of layoffs. I know it's kinda dumb to list a certification that's in progress but its a 36 hour course with a paid test at the end so that poo poo takes time. So while all that means my resume is a clusterfuck, it's gotten me this far.. I just don't know what to do with it now. I know its clunky, but I wanted to highlight the fact that I was promoted in 2021 because it shows job growth in some way? Title hasn't been a big factor to me up til now, all I care about is a steady paycheck and insurance, but my roles at these companies have grown and changed as I've been there. But someone on Reddit said it looked like I've stagnated, but its really just different companies calling roles different things. A PM at one firm may not be the same as a PM at another. New Leaf fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 19:00
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New Leaf posted:Fine fine.. Here we go. Thoughts: - It sounds like this has been a real roller coaster, we've all been there and its why many of us post here, to help others get jobs but also to alleviate those normal feelings. - 2 pages is fine if you need it. - Its hard for me to calibrate on what sort of PM work is going on here. - Its hard to tell how much you're responsible for, which is the thing I look for on a PM resume to calibrate on whether they have the right experience. Theres a lot of very specific jargon and its not clear how that translates to business goals. When I think of a PM I think of a senior person who lives by cost and schedule performance, but that could be my defense industry background. Its very hard to translate these accomplishments into understanding how effective you are at hitting cost and schedule and just how much cost and schedule you've been tasked with. Relatedly, when reading the bullets its kinda hard to picture what some of these metrics really mean. Is coordinating and mobilizing 15 fiber expansion projects a lot for someone of your experience level? Not enough? - Its not clear how much project lifecycle you've seen as well. Have you handed a 5 year project with 250 person years of work scheduled, beginning to end with partial ownership the whole time or is the nature of your experience and work managing crews of 7 people on 3-12 mo projects? - Could you post a job that you'd apply for? I dont know what a PC/PM does in this context exactly, so its hard to judge the resume. - Industry specific software broken out into a separate section are probably not the best for a PM hoping to switch industries. - I dont see an issue with in progress PMP but I dont have a PMP so I'll let others weigh in.
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Nov 21, 2023 20:13
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CarForumPoster posted:Thoughts: See, this is where the PM or PC is tough because it means drastically different things to different industries. I get so many recruiters who call me up assuming I'm a Civil Engineer when I'm not. None of the PM/PC folks I've worked with are. Plus, I've never dealt with budgets in the slightest in 12 years of doing this other than creating Purchase Order Requests that get filled 99% of the time. This is the way its worked with every firm I've been with - the pricing is handled in advance, we set it every so often and the client knows in advance, so for simplicity's sake, let's say we'll do these 100 analyses for $1000 each. The list comes to me. I scrub them to see what's what - it can be a cell tower, a rooftop mount, a church steeple, a water tank, etc. Then I have to go hunting for documents for everything - tower drawings, building drawings, photos, foundation information, geotechnical information.. If that stuff is available, great. If not, I have places I can go look for it. If I can find it, we're good to go. If not, there's a whole new step of contacting companies that do field mappings who will go out and visit the site, take measurements, make drawings, and take photos. This is the only time I deal with money - I collect quotes, figure out the best one for the turnaround, and create a purchase order request for the client with the reason we need it to move forward. They're generally aware its coming and they cut me a PO and then I pass it off to the field crew until its done. Assuming we have everything we need, I have a team of engineers ready for work, so I start dealing them out by complexity or their skillset. An engineer can turn around some analyses in a day or two, some longer depending on complexity, and there are programs that take time to run calculations so I can usually give them a few at a time and let them chew on them until they need more. When they're done, I get a report that says "Yes this tower can accept more antennas" and it goes to CAD drafters for construction drawings, or "No this shits about to fall down", which leads to a whole different thing that I won't bore you with. Rinse and repeat until they're all done. I'm tracking every step on a spreadsheet and reporting back to the client on progress and acting as the "voice" of our department. So saying "I worked on tens of thousands of 1-3 day projects" isn't that impressive. Since you asked, this is a role I actually interviewed for: https://jobs.siemens.com/careers/job/563156116472541?hl=en&sourceType=PREMIUM_POST_SITE&domain=siemens.com New Leaf fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 20:30
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I saw your text explaining your resume so I figured I would look at your resume first before getting any kind of side-channel explanation. 1. Tbh I like the 1 pager better. 2. I have no idea what kind of story you're trying to tell. 3. If your goal was to make this parsable by someone outside the telecom industry I think you didn't succeed. 4. Your soft skills are redundant. Your hard skills seem shallow. This is where you might want to lean into the telecom jargon and leave the job bullets for business outcomes. Ok, now let me read your explanations Ok, you're a little more worried about job hopping than I think you should be. This isn't too terribly uncommon for project people. Your bigger problems are: Lack of career growth, industry pigeonholing, and what I think is you trying to present yourself as generically good is coming across as just generic. You look like "Just a Guy", maybe a telecom person would see more but this is a solid C resume. PMP will help (though I am mixed if putting the in progress is helping. I read that as "Has a reason its not completed"). Agile/Scrum certification would help, though I am in software so I am biased, but I bet tech PC/PM jobs will look for it. You do that and suddenly your checking boxes that make the rest of what you have more useful. CarForumPoster posted:Thoughts: I agree with all these, and seeing some job postings of jobs that you've applied to but haven't gotten much traction would help. You could also quickly look at another locale if you don't want to share what geographic location your in to give examples.
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Nov 21, 2023 20:47
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