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One of the things I think I like the most about Takes Off is that it finally acknowledges Julie's villain potential and just catapults her up to the top of the heap by paring her with Gideon. I would like to see them in action in a second season because they actually balance each others' shortcomings really well: Julie can keep Gideon focused so he's not a capricious dipshit any more, and Gideon gives Julie the means to finally unleash her inner super villain that's struggled to find an outlet across the franchise so far. It was the most unexpected pairing, and yet also the most obvious pairing in hindsight.
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Nov 18, 2023 19:23
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M_Gargantua posted:Every single one. and then some. I read they were thinking of a complete recast if they couldn't get everybody back, which with some of the talent does feel a bit gutsy.
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Nov 18, 2023 19:36
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I feel like at this point all they have to do is snap their fingers and the entire cast is back for more. This is the second time they've all come back (the first was the pandemic table reading which was a lot of fun) and they all seem to have a ton of fun doing these roles.
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Nov 18, 2023 20:38
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Chris Evans and Brandon Routh definitely made me laugh the most with their deliveries. The latter's plot had me loving dying. Also just learned that Griffin Newman played Straight Wallace which makes that character even better for me. Scott Pilgrim feels like a piece of pop culture that is completely tied to the late 00s/early 10s, and was becoming increasingly relegated with time. And with the new series, they've really brought it into the present (even though it definitely takes place 15-20 years ago) by maturing the themes and telling a new story. I've never really thought about it as a world that could be explored, but I really hope the show continues because the setting and characters are just a ton of fun. And gotdang the art/animation are fixing phenomenal. I feel like it should have its own thread (if it doesn't already) because I'm seeing discussion all over the forums.
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Nov 18, 2023 20:59
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nine-gear crow posted:One of the things I think I like the most about Takes Off is that it finally acknowledges Julie's villain potential and just catapults her up to the top of the heap by paring her with Gideon. I would like to see them in action in a second season because they actually balance each others' shortcomings really well: Julie can keep Gideon focused so he's not a capricious dipshit any more, and Gideon gives Julie the means to finally unleash her inner super villain that's struggled to find an outlet across the franchise so far. The major writing problem they had to solve to make this plot work was “how do we get the exes to Toronto without the overarching plot of ‘they need to beat Scott’” and when the initial reveal of Gordon Goose and how he is actually Canadian and went to the same high school as Julie happened I rolled my eyes extra hard because I thought it was gonna be incredibly lazy but they sold it well. I’d say the things that I had the biggest issue with were Envy and Todd and the movie plot more generally. There’s enough payoff for the concept as a whole (Lucas as Scott is funny, having the script be a failed attempt by future Ramona to fix future Scott’s gently caress-up) but then they spent a second episode on it making a very inconsistent documentary spoof (a trope that is overused enough that you have to something really great with it to justify it these days) with a whole bunch of even more meta jokes that weren’t particularly funny or insightful or original. The worst part was Todd deciding to be an actor with no experience and very little warning because “I’m a rock star and I can do whatever the gently caress I want”, which was really lazy and what made it even worse that it was also basically the same justification Envy gave in the previous episode so it really feels like the writers just giving up and saying “look this is what the plot needs to do”. I think by virtue of the story being much more about Ramona and fleshing out her exes, Scott’s got the shaft a little, Envy most of all (unless you count Lisa), but in that case they probably should have had the courage to just not have Envy show up so much instead of shoehorning her in. I loved her turning the funeral into an event all about her but I think if she had just not showed up after that it would have been better.
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Nov 18, 2023 22:07
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DC Murderverse posted:The major writing problem they had to solve to make this plot work was “how do we get the exes to Toronto without the overarching plot of ‘they need to beat Scott’” and when the initial reveal of Gordon Goose and how he is actually Canadian and went to the same high school as Julie happened I rolled my eyes extra hard because I thought it was gonna be incredibly lazy but they sold it well. Even in the comics he's from Ontario before he made it big in NYC. Its not really surprising in dramatic writing to have everybody have backstory ties. Its less realistic but it gets people more invested regardless.
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Nov 18, 2023 22:13
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Honestly after watching the series I was surprised at how it was basically the Ramona redemption story, and Scott is apparently such a malignant entity that him being gone for only a week makes everyone else's lives significantly better. I can't believe the show didn't end with everyone teaming up to kill Scott, because how can you not at that point? It's like an inverse It's a Wonderful Life
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Nov 18, 2023 22:25
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M_Gargantua posted:Every single one. and then some. I thought that was really cool they were able to do that, but honestly this show just reminds me that professional VAs don’t get paid enough and should be getting more work. They’re just better.
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Nov 18, 2023 22:49
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CubanMissile posted:I thought that was really cool they were able to do that, but honestly this show just reminds me that professional VAs don’t get paid enough and should be getting more work. They’re just better. Speaking of, did the results of the recent SAG strike help in that regard at all?
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Nov 18, 2023 22:53
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Grapplejack posted:Honestly after watching the series I was surprised at how it was basically the Ramona redemption story, and Scott is apparently such a malignant entity that him being gone for only a week makes everyone else's lives significantly better. I can't believe the show didn't end with everyone teaming up to kill Scott, because how can you not at that point? It's like an inverse It's a Wonderful Life I mean, in a way it kind of did, because Older/Even Older Scott was flat out the antagonist of the story that everyone had to come together to overcome and he was so far gone that just seeing him inspired Our Scott to resolve to be a better person so he didn't become that Scott. Because he really kind of was the worst possible version of Scott Pilgrim. Pachylad posted:oh huh, didn't know Bryan Lee O'Malley was divorced after skimming through Scott Pilgrim Discourse (I'm a masochist w/e) :/ prolly explains a lot about the twist led to this hilarious exchange tho: It's funny because Scott Pilgrim has always been Bryan Lee O'Malley's life story, so updating it to include his divorce from Hope Larson (his own personal Ramona Flowers) was the most natural progression because, hey, sometimes people who seem destined to be together just don't work out romantically but can still work as people. So just like how Rebuild was Anno working though his own post-Evangelion life issues, so was Takes Off O'Malley working this his own too. So I completely get his choice to excise Scott from the story for like 3/4s of it, because he's probably thinking "If Scott's me, then gently caress me, I was a huge poo poo head, I don't want to write about Scott right now, let me start by apologizing to everyone I did wrong by... starting with Hope."
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Nov 18, 2023 22:56
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Larryb posted:Speaking of, did the results of the recent SAG strike help in that regard at all? I don’t know, but Chris Pratt is playing Garfield so I sure doubt it.
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Nov 18, 2023 22:59
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one of my problems with the original scott pilgrim comic is that i never thought scott's problems were severe enough to warrant so much time and story dedicated to them, so this has been a nice change of pace. cera's scene in the movie where he turns into a pouty, snappish drunk over a single argument takes three minutes and sums up scott's issues more clearly than all six volumes. so the show being more of an ensemble piece that happens around scott rather than about scott fixes a lot of that like the interpretation of "he's such a malignant presence that excising him from the story improves everyone's lives" isn't even correct, it's that his sudden disappearance is what prompts ramona to get her own poo poo together instead
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Nov 18, 2023 23:23
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Oxxidation posted:one of my problems with the original scott pilgrim comic is that i never thought scott's problems were severe enough to warrant so much time and story dedicated to them, so this has been a nice change of pace. cera's scene in the movie where he turns into a pouty, snappish drunk over a single argument takes three minutes and sums up scott's issues more clearly than all six volumes. so the show being more of an ensemble piece that happens around scott rather than about scott fixes a lot of that It's funny because his social circle's lives aren't explicitly improved by the removal of his toxic presence alone, it's that his loss pulls them all together to fill in the gap he left and they start discovering things about themselves and each other that makes them click better, like Neil trying (and failing) to be a writer, and Knives finding her musical talent, which brings her closer to Stephen and then by extension Kim, reluctantly, or Wallace flourishing into a completely unfettered self-servering rear end in a top hat because Scott effectively being his dependent was also a check on his morality, ect.
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Nov 18, 2023 23:34
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Oxxidation posted:one of my problems with the original scott pilgrim comic is that i never thought scott's problems were severe enough to warrant so much time and story dedicated to them, so this has been a nice change of pace. cera's scene in the movie where he turns into a pouty, snappish drunk over a single argument takes three minutes and sums up scott's issues more clearly than all six volumes. so the show being more of an ensemble piece that happens around scott rather than about scott fixes a lot of that He's a dumbass manchild and the entire point of the original series was him learning that poo poo takes time, work, and effort, and it won't always go smoothly, and his entire character growth is him sticking through it to the end. It's reflected on Ramona in the story, as she has similar problems, and her constant abandonment of people when things get hard is what caused most of her problems in the first place. This just sidesteps all of that and at the same time shows things getting better without him there, which makes me question what the purpose of this series is. Learning about the divorce sheds some light on some of the choices, though. e: I know that i'm in the minority here as I hated the series and most people really like it, so  He should have made a Seconds anime instead 
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Nov 18, 2023 23:40
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I really liked Scott Pilgrim Takes Off. I wasn't that excited about seeing the comics adapted one to one, since I was never interested enough in the franchise to read the comics. The movie was good fun and perfectly cast but too quick to get to know the characters that well. So overall this was a great experience of a new take on the story with more time to get to experience the colorful cast.
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Nov 18, 2023 23:49
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Never easy learning you turned out to be the most evil ex.
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Nov 19, 2023 00:01
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CubanMissile posted:Never easy learning you turned out to be the most evil ex. That was why they continually associated Scott with the number zero in the movie, not because he was a loser, but because he was Evil Ex #0.
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Nov 19, 2023 00:04
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nine-gear crow posted:That was why they continually associated Scott with the number zero in the movie, not because he was a loser, but because he was Evil Ex #0. I get this from a thematic perspective but also that’s not how numbers work Also just so it doesn’t sound like I’m doing nothing but complaining because I did like it a lot, I think the glow-ups Knives and Matthew Patel got were both awesome. At the end of the movie Knives (correctly) says that she’s too cool for Scott but she never really gets an opportunity to be cool aside from the last battle because she’s so busy plotting revenge. Making her a musical savant is great because she’s clearly passionate about music and having her go on and be a way better musician than the guy she “dated” also just makes thematic sense. For Matthew it’s the fact that for once he’s not just the guy at the beginning explaining the rules and then getting bounced. Him being a big theater dweeb makes perfect sense and after he kills Scott and realizes that he’s actually capable of being cool, using that newfound knowledge to gently caress Gideon up is the actual big twist because you just assume power levels would scale linearly but he’s actually just as strong, which tracks with all the cool magic he has.
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Nov 19, 2023 00:22
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Grapplejack posted:He's a dumbass manchild and the entire point of the original series was him learning that poo poo takes time, work, and effort, and it won't always go smoothly, and his entire character growth is him sticking through it to the end. It's reflected on Ramona in the story, as she has similar problems, and her constant abandonment of people when things get hard is what caused most of her problems in the first place. This just sidesteps all of that and at the same time shows things getting better without him there, which makes me question what the purpose of this series is. Learning about the divorce sheds some light on some of the choices, though. That isn't remotely what happens in the series at all. The series puts Ramona into the position, for the first time, of being the one left behind instead of the one leaving. Rather than it being about Scott and his issues, it puts Ramona in the position where she has to confront her own issues and deal with them on her own terms without it being about Scott. And things end up better not because Scott isn't there but because Ramona is forced to confront things herself and actually has to deal with her exes as actual people instead. And the series makes it clear the post-ending of the comic was "they were happy together until things went wrong and neither Scott nor Ramona had actually evolved emotionally enough to deal with things going wrong" because the whole Evil Exes thing had largely resolved in a pretty lovely way, with Ramona never actually getting closure for herself or fully accepting the damage she had caused to others. The series has a happier ending not because Scott 'died' but because his absence meant that Ramona, not Scott, had to actually confront her past issues and past cruelties and the way she behaved, which was and is an ongoing criticism of the original story. So in Takes Off, well, she does. She actually has to confront and develop, to actively go after someone instead of being chased, and it climaxes with her future self being able to speak openly to Scott and tell him to come after her, rather than her and him making each other miserable. Like the entire point of Future Scott being the Ultimate Evil Ex is that Ramona ended up hurting him in the same way she hurt all her previous exes, and while it made him behave and act like an absolute shithead, Ramona is the one who took off and then never contacted him because she never had the personal chance to grow and improve.
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Nov 19, 2023 00:29
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I mentioned it before and I'll say it again: one of the biggest services the new show provides is that we actually see why Ramona likes Scott and finds him charming, after only date. The movie moves way too fast for their relationship to feel like anything, and the comic doesn't really let Ramona get properly fleshed out until the end. She's just this object that Scott is pursuing. and now Scott is the central macguffin (to use the term loosely) and we see actually feel like Ramona is really into him. He's genuinely charming and not just in that oughts Awkward Nerd way. It's nice to see the trope reversed. Grapplejack posted:He should have made a Seconds anime instead Ever since it came out I've said Seconds would make a really solid movie. Much more compact plot. Could work live action or animated.
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Nov 19, 2023 01:39
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ImpAtom posted:That isn't remotely what happens in the series at all. in the comic she literally leaves scott after finding out he cheated on knives with her and has been trying to change himself to be better for her, saying that she's a bad person. She comes back at the end to help scott beat gideon, admitting that she can't run from her problems anymore. This is the plot, it happens, her character growth is tied to Scott's and their relationship. Hell he only wins because Ramona stops trying to run from her problems!
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Nov 19, 2023 02:23
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M_Gargantua posted:And I wonder if the producers just hate Lisa and that whole arc. Specifically how she's used to frame how much of an unreliable narrator Scott is about his memories of his past and own lovely behaviors. This is kind of my question. Her whole arc contextualized Scott's issues a lot. And honestly, I just liked Lisa and Kim as characters more than a lot of the evil exes. So, losing out on the exploration of that dynamic feels like a missed opportunity. But I understand why they completely exorcised her again since this was Ramona's story much more than Scott's.
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Nov 19, 2023 02:58
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Interesting to see some of the minor changes from the very beginning, in particular the fact that Wallace starts the series fed up with Scott crashing in his apartment and wants him to leave, whereas in the comics he spent three books enabling Scott in every possible way and then kicked him out so suddenly that it almost constituted attempted murder. (I asssume this is because the author realized that there's no reasonable explanation for Wallace's behavior except "he's secretly in love with Scott" and that he definitely didn't want that to be the story he was telling.) It's also been much more clear about: a) the fact that Scott's relationship with Knives was incredibly limited, to the point of removing the scene where she suddenly kisses him so it can be explicit that they've never kissed, and b) absolutely everybody Scott knows regards it as the most garbage thing imaginable anyway.
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Nov 19, 2023 03:21
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Just finished it and I thought it was really good. I would love a 2nd season with these lovable assholes. I thought the animation was superb, especially the last episode. I do want to complain about the forced perspective they did by making some things blurry. ImpAtom posted:Chris Evans does such a loving good job. He really knocks it out of the loving park. I was always happy whenever Lucas Lee showed up, and his fun time with Gordon was the best thing in the show.. Also Fear the Goose honk honk mother fucker is a great line with an amazing read. I did like all the callbacks to the movie with the repeated mention of Lucas dying because of a long grind and how unbelievably stupid that was. Another line Chris Evans crushed. Edit: I want to mention that even though I like binging these all at once releases they need to stop doing that and break it up. At least 2 episodes a week or something. limp_cheese fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Nov 19, 2023 |
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Nov 19, 2023 05:50
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DC Murderverse posted:I get this from a thematic perspective but also that’s not how numbers work It is when you're not an Evil Ex yet, just someone with the potential to be one. He'd be #8 if he finished walking that path, but he didn't.
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Nov 19, 2023 07:23
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The Bee posted:It is when you're not an Evil Ex yet, just someone with the potential to be one. He'd be #8 if he finished walking that path, but he didn't. Also anime, video games and comics (which the series is bound up in) have a long history of calling prequel material "zero" whatever, so Scott being a larval Evil Ex in waiting at the prelude to his Evil Ex journey beginning as the current Zeroth Evil Ex also tracks in a way.
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Nov 19, 2023 07:54
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Apologies in advance if I'm being a slowpoke here, but I gotta recommend Pantheon. It's stupid good, and season 2 wraps everything up in a satisfying end (at least for me). I found out about the show from a YouTube recommendation which started with a few clips from the show and "I beg you to watch Pantheon, close this video and go see it", and that's what I did. Now I'm the one being like go watch Pantheon if you like sci-fi. And I guess I'll go check out Blue Eye Samurai based on what I read in this thread.
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Nov 19, 2023 13:58
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It’s a good show OP. It doesn’t understand how airflow in server racks works but try not to hold that against them.
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Nov 19, 2023 16:05
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AquariusDue posted:And I guess I'll go check out Blue Eye Samurai based on what I read in this thread. Do it. Absolutely do it! I just finished episode 6. That might be a highpoint of the year for me. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Nov 19, 2023 |
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Nov 19, 2023 16:28
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"It's never too late to clean up a mess" was a good line, wasnt expecting that. Pachylad posted:I have no skin in the game but my understanding is that people said the advertising/trailers (apparently they all say 'the interviews don't count' lmao) promised 'a more faithful adaptation of the comics' whatever that means. I think it is a more faithful adaptation, in that the original clearly wanted to be a hyperactive animated cartoon anime videogame world instead of a black and white comic. Khanstant fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Nov 19, 2023 |
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Nov 19, 2023 17:47
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Grapplejack posted:in the comic she literally leaves scott after finding out he cheated on knives with her and has been trying to change himself to be better for her, saying that she's a bad person. She comes back at the end to help scott beat gideon, admitting that she can't run from her problems anymore. This is the plot, it happens, her character growth is tied to Scott's and their relationship. Hell he only wins because Ramona stops trying to run from her problems! You literally just emphasized why this story is the way it is. "Her character growth is tied to Scott." Ramona in the character is a character who exists secondary to Scott. She depends on his character growth instead of her own. This was a common criticism of the story and probably the #1 argument people made about why they probably wouldn't have a happy ending. The show just makes that absolute text. Future Ramona's entire issue is that she was waiting for Scott to do something.
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Nov 19, 2023 18:30
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But you've just reversed it now, Scott no longer has any real growth so things will assumedly end up the exact same only with Scott being the one to gently caress it up because he's the same idiot manchild he's always been
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Nov 19, 2023 20:06
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So is anyone in the Scott Pilgrim show besides Mae Whitman a professional voice actor out of curiosity? They don’t do a terrible job or anything but you can tell from some of the performances that a lot of them are more used to on camera work
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Nov 19, 2023 20:09
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Grapplejack posted:But you've just reversed it now, Scott no longer has any real growth so things will assumedly end up the exact same only with Scott being the one to gently caress it up because he's the same idiot manchild he's always been My take is that what he saw of Old and Even Older Scott, and seeing how everything played out via the robot was enough of a wakeup call for him.
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Nov 19, 2023 20:15
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I love how much you can tell O'Malley regrets how he handled Lucas Lee originally. He's got to be one of the top 5 characters now.
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Nov 19, 2023 20:24
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Larryb posted:So is anyone in the Scott Pilgrim show besides Mae Whitman a professional voice actor out of curiosity? They don’t do a terrible job or anything but you can tell from some of the performances that a lot of them are more used to on camera work Jason Schwartzman has been doing voice acting for decades.
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Nov 19, 2023 20:52
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Grapplejack posted:But you've just reversed it now, Scott no longer has any real growth so things will assumedly end up the exact same only with Scott being the one to gently caress it up because he's the same idiot manchild he's always been I think the thing is that any of the people Ramona dated could potentially become Evil Exes — in fact, all eight of them did! Ramona's character arc is about realizing that all of those past relationships* could have been successful if she hadn't bounced at the first sign of trouble, and that this one could be too. (From Scott's perspective, the League of Evil Exes represents Ramona's baggage and the difficulty of really getting to know her. From Ramona's perspective, the League is more "oh, no, the consequences of my actions!".) * except maybe Gordon
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Nov 19, 2023 20:52
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DoctorWhat posted:Jason Schwartzman has been doing voice acting for decades. You're probably familiar with his role as recent Tumblr sexyman The Spot in Spiderverse, which made me wonder about how Gideon would be received.
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Nov 19, 2023 20:59
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DoctorWhat posted:Jason Schwartzman has been doing voice acting for decades. Not as much as Mae it seems but yeah, him too
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Nov 19, 2023 21:00
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Larryb posted:They don’t do a terrible job or anything but you can tell from some of the performances that a lot of them are more used to on camera work Yeah. I also think part of it too is that it's a dub, so for most of them this is probably their first experience with "Okay, you need to say this line exactly like this in this exact amount of time while also matching the lip flaps as best as you can", and you can kinda tell they weren't used to that.
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Nov 19, 2023 21:16
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