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I think episode 34 blows everyone's mind. It hits so hard every time.
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Nov 13, 2023 20:13
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the final three episodes simply Must be watched in one sitting
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Nov 13, 2023 20:41
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(By now most of you are sick of reading my posts but I'm fascinated by this show and gonna  - hopefully it's entertaining to someone)After ep34 I really have no clue what's going on. Week after week my theories are being shattered and I don't know up from down anymore Beginning of ep34 I resigned myself to the sex and penis theory. I'd been resisting it, but in ep34 it's so in your face, the 10 seconds of penis tower at the beginning and then the reveal of the Witch's Tower threatening to steal the students away, that floating vagina sucking up those school uniformed sperm But within the same episode I no longer even think that's a clean metaphor. It explains why they're dueling each other sure, but doesn't explain why the sperm seduce each other, make friends and everything else. Why the Rose Bride and Prince are hanging out in the school instead of in the Witch's Tower I'm getting the feeling it's supposed to be an "everything" show where every theory can find an episode that supports it and another episode that contradicts it Like all the poo poo we talked about re: Akio past couple days? Ep34 he's so docile and not really doing anything, in fact seemingly getting along pretty well with Utena, and turns out he is the prince after all so like  And all along we'd been assuming he had control over Anthy, but turns out it might be the other way around?? Or some codependency, cuts both ways?? Any first time watchers have a better grasp on things, or are you all as lost as me? Everyone saying ep34 is mindblowing: there is certainly a lot of infodump happening here and I'm overwhelmed. Any hint as to what mindblowing parts I might want to pay extra attention to?
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Nov 13, 2023 23:29
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Imo the most mind-blowing part is the realisation that Utena didn't become a Prince because she was impressed with Akio - she became a Prince because she was empathizing with Anthy. But trauma and time made her memory hazy and twisted and here she is today. "Who are you?"
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Nov 14, 2023 00:06
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I can't say a lot because I've watched Utena several times and will accidentally spew spoilers if I try to add commentary but I love everything I've been reading here.
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Nov 14, 2023 00:20
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Cavelcade posted:"Who are you?"
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Nov 14, 2023 02:22
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TwoStoryHouseCat posted:Everyone saying ep34 is mindblowing: there is certainly a lot of infodump happening here and I'm overwhelmed. Any hint as to what mindblowing parts I might want to pay extra attention to? the most important revelation from that episode: the shadow play girls are real people
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Nov 14, 2023 04:23
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new arc, new mood. these episodes feel very voyeuristic to me, with the fixation on cameras, modeling and the unnatural ways it frames a lot of the cast. the boys having a pose off is probably the funniest and most blatant example of this. these episodes are somehow also focused on whatever the exact opposite of voyeurism is, in that the characters seem to be confronting the roles they're supposed to play (or directly confronting the audience in some cases). in episode 34, i think anthy stares directly into the camera every scene she's in (excluding the flashback), including the one where she has to physically back into the elevator to maintain her gaze. i was kind of joking about the shadow girls, but the fact that this is the arc they choose to show up and tell utena she should get into acting was actually really important to my impression of this episode block.
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Nov 14, 2023 05:55
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lol the touga and saionji imitation car ride. these episodes do some much to humanize touga and show how tragic (also pathetic) his akio impression is https://i.imgur.com/VCK7DZk.mp4
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Nov 14, 2023 06:10
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i'm gonna post my takes episode by episode this time. 34 is great. finally we get some more explication of the origin story. the opening sequence sucks rear end. ouch. the message i take from the shadow play is that princely dreams have the effect of sucking that magic out of the world which is the genuine motivating force of real change. in short, the princely spirit is good, but the princely appearance and princely ambitions have issues. the castle story also reflects anthy's self-blaming for the abuse she suffers. the way the shinai are drawn, which is quite off-model, makes them look more phallic. saionji's jodan looks nice, and touga's footwork looks nice. i wish we got more kendo scenes anthy backing away is so ominous the whole rose bride fable is once again anthy blaming herself for her own abuse i <3 paka paka with this episode, i think we've seen enough that i can talk about my overarching read of the program. if you are uncomfortable seeing a take which is informed by the finale but does not rely on it evidentially, do not unspoil the following: most of the events of utena do not literally occur, they are mostly authored by anthy and reflective of her psychological state, and utena herself is entirely a fragment of anthy's personality/a self-insert OC. akio is of course real and the abuse is real, but the rest of cast may or may not exist. i think what is literally occurring is that anthy is processing her abuse and pain through the lens of romantic fiction and slowly untangling the contradictions within. that is, for instance, why you see her depicted in such a villainous way, and why she has such a profound influence on the events: she thinks she's a horrible person, and she is literally making it up as she goes.
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Nov 14, 2023 06:17
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Episode 34! This one starts off with Anthy and Akio getting dressed, with ominous piano music. Only thin slits of the screen are visible at a time, much like the current ed of the show. Unlike that, where it feels mostly like a neat stylistic choice, here it makes the scene feel incredibly voyeuristic. Akio has a monologue about a comet he discovered that he's keeping secret because that make it feel like it belongs to him even though it obviously doesn't. Stars don't belong to anyone. Anthy tells him goodnight as she walks off and he accuses her of torturing him. She smiles slightly. Seems clear that he blames her for what he does to her, though the extent of that is still not entirely clear. Utena is alone in bed thinking about how she wants to become a prince. This show just has some incredible episode openings with a lot to think about in them, Utena still wants to become a prince despite clearly feeling different about things after 33, juxtaposed with this incredible human suffering only a room away from her The shadow play girls are asking Utena to come watch their play, and though we don't see their faces we get to see them out of the shadows! I remember this flooring me just as much as anything else in this show did, though obviously for completely different reasons. I think this scene is kind of showing that the barriers between the real and unreal are breaking down, not in a literal sense but in the sense that Akio's control over Utena is solidifying while at the same time more people are becoming aware of the things fundamentally wrong at this school. It's also delightful to see them bring their antics into the real world after last week, the way they caress her face and make her hair poof is fun. Anyways, she has 2 tickets to the play now. Wakaba is asking Utena to choose between photos. All screenshots from the show, with a large chunk of them being of Wakaba which is fun. Utena wants one of Anthy though, and is very put out by her absence. Wakaba claims it's because she isn't sociable, but there are 2 pictures of Chuchu which makes that obviously a lie. Anthy is even right next to them, playing with Chuchu and some yarn. Wakaba steals the tickets and points out that the school doesn't have a drama club. Back in the planetarium, Utena has decided that she needs to take a photo with Anthy and has enlisted Akio's help. Sadly she asks him to join them in the picture. The heights in this show are wild. As Akio moves to put his hand on Utena's shoulder, ruining the picture, Chuchu comes in and saves the day by blocking them entirely. As Anthy goes to collect him she also forcibly inserts herself between them. Though complicit (only in the loosest possible sense, given she's clearly also a victim of the same grooming and abuse as Utena) Anthy continues to take every step possible to protect Utena from Akio. In the final picture she apologizes for closing her eyes, continuing the motif of Anthy not wanting to look at the world around her, as well as further making the only good pictures taken here of her and Utena alone. At the same time as this, Akio starts talking about how memories are clearly important to Utena, pointing out the ring as a memento of her childhood. Utena wants to be able to remember her time with Anthy clearly, which isn't a guarantee given later reveals this episode! She also invites them to the play. There are a lot of arrows pointing towards the play, going downstairs and calling back to the guiding hands towards Mikage's underground therapy elevator. Akio says "Life is like a play, you're either an actor or a spectator." I bet he thinks he's the only actual actor in the world. Utena wonders why no one else came. The answer is that the play was designed just for her, as quickly becomes clear. Also, before we get into the actual play I'd like to note that this is all 3 shadow play girls working together, and I like to see it. The play opens with an announcement that this is the story of the prince, and an old man coming on to announce that you must beware, because the people featured in this play still exist in this world. There's a lot going on here so let's get into the meat of things. So first: Obviously the framing of this play isn't the whole story, but I do think it's important to talk about the play on its own without getting into the stuff we learn later. The prince saving all the girls from such horrors as kaiju and being alone on Christmas eve equally is a funny bit. All girls are princesses. To be a princess you must be protected by the prince. A witch, recognizable as Anthy even in shadow play form from the hair and glasses even if it hadn't cut from her saying the word "witch" to a closeup of Anthy. The play claims Anthy steals the light. The light means something different to everyone, just as Anthy herself does. Something eternal, that which shines, miracles, the power to bring the world revolution. The witch steals the prince, and reveals herself to be his little sister. I choose to believe the spotlights laying out the obvious here are for Utena's benefit and are as diagetic as anything in this show is. As his sister she cannot be a princess, and in the world of fairy tales there is only one other option. A girl who cannot become a princess is doomed to become a witch. The witch is still out there and still evil, and Utena must beware for she is looking for new souls to corrupt. I would like to state for the record that the fact that Akio is (probably) the prince does not mean we should simply trust him. Instead, I invite you to question the worth of the prince as a role. Because in the real world the monarchy is an inherently unjust institution, but also because as a role in the story a prince does kind of just represent the patriarchy as goodness. Perhaps princes aren't inherently good? The fact that this is the framing of the shadow play renders all other shadow plays suspect in any meaning we find in them, but I'm going to ignore that because it'll give me a headache. The play is obviously playing into some classic sexist tropes (the way it removes all agency from the women of the world who must rely on the prince for their every need and the only women to avoid that is the evil witch), but the show knows this and is going to show it to be nonsense later. What's really interesting at this stage (hehe) is the way the characters react, but there's a few scenes between the eyecatch that closes the play and getting there. Touga and Saionji are existing in the tension before they release their swords, talking about Utena and how it's worrying that she keeps winning without the sword of Dios. It's because she was shown something eternal as a child. In the aftermath of their bout an incredibly phallic sword lays on the floor, as Saionji learns Utena was the girl in the coffin. We also get another shadow play but it's just them celebrating their successful play. The 2 og shadow play girls make fun of the black rose girl for being weird, which is more than a little hypocritical. The way Anthy doesn't turn around or blink so she's still watching Utena and Akio makes me feel insane. Utena is pretty clearly trying to feel out Akio's thoughts on the play, like I said I think those spotlights were diagetic so she had no choice but to actually confront the things it was saying. And I wouldn't know what to think in that scenario, so I can only imagine how Utena is dealing with the play accusing Anthy of being an evil witch. Akio just sidesteps that by talking instead about the production values and immediately moving into talking about how much Anthy sucks and it must be so tiring spending so much time with her. What an rear end in a top hat. Utena defends her and seems the most comfortable she's felt around Akio in a while while talking about Anthy until Akio gets in her personal space. He asks Utena to define her relationship with Anthy and she can't. She just knows Anthy is important to her. Then Akio gets in her personal space and asks if he's her friend as well because he's a huge loving creep. I don't want to be rude to anyone in this thread, but just because Akio is being less aggressive doesn't mean he's not still actively grooming Utena, and nothing we see here makes it feel any less clear that Akio is the abuser and that Anthy is the victim. Akio grabs her hand and reminds her of the time he raped her before trying to initiate sex yet again. When she says she doesn't want to, he acts as if the only reason she might not want him is loyalty to her prince, theoretically making the eventual reveal that he is the prince pull her closer to him. The prince told her to never lose her nobility, and she's definitely thinking she failed that after last episode. Akio is probing for more information on her childhood, I think because he doesn't remember giving that ring but is in fact The Prince. She doesn't remember. We're now in the flashback to Utena in the coffin again, this time immediately after Touga and Saionji have left. The prince (who I will call Dios) appears, like we knew happened, but it goes a little differently this time. It's not as simple as the storybook opening. Utena calls him pretty, and he walks off for her to follow. She does. Anthy is suffering. The trees in the background of the storybook are the blades extending from Anthy, the witch, the rose bride. They all mean the same thing. Dios is younger now, back to his childhood state, and he envies those who can die. He then switches from first person to third to describe Anthy's situation. She is forever living in agony as punishment. We now get an alternate (truer) perspective on the events of the play. In a cabin in the woods with a fax machine spitting out reams of paper, Dios is hurt and Anthy is trying to comfort him. There's a massive crowd of people begging for the prince to come out and help, but he'll die if he does. He's going to kill himself helping them, and they won't leave. Anthy makes a decision, and is harshly punished for it. And now she suffers for all eternity. Utena is in tears at this story and at Anthy's state. Dios explains the prince she loved is no longer the prince she knew, is now Akio. The End of the World. Utena begs Dios to help Anthy, and he kisses her face like in the storybook. He's older again, and she's beyond his help now. He explains to Utena that the only thing that can save Anthy is a prince she can believe in, someone who she can love and trust and have faith in. If Utena grows up to become a prince, never loses her nobility, perhaps she could save Anthy? And now we know why Utena is so set on becoming a prince. It's not because she looked up to Dios, it's because she saw this incredible suffering and wanted to help in any way she could. She forgets it as she grows up, and Dios doesn't believe she can be enough of a prince to save Anthy as a woman, but Utena believes in herself absolutely. Anthy opens her eyes and sees Utena, just for a moment, before the end of the flashback. In the present Utena and Anthy are in bed together. They aren't going through the rituals. Utena has been having a familiar dream that she can't remember. Anthy has been watching Utena, and is staring at the audience. "Who are you?" This episode has a lot going on! And I wrote a lot! I'll do a tl;dr with some broader takes and theories in a separate post in a bit, and will not be writing as much for future episodes on account of there won't be quite as much going on and this isn't really sustainable
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Nov 14, 2023 20:03
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chrome line posted:This one starts off with Anthy and Akio getting dressed, with ominous piano music. Only thin slits of the screen are visible at a time, much like the current ed of the show. Unlike that, where it feels mostly like a neat stylistic choice, here it makes the scene feel incredibly voyeuristic. this is kind of dumb, but i think it's neat how many scenes are filled with gaps and chasms and darkness in an episode that fills in some pretty important missing pieces of the story.  
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Nov 14, 2023 20:30
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Big Leg posted:this is kind of dumb, but i think it's neat how many scenes are filled with gaps and chasms and darkness in an episode that fills in some pretty important missing pieces of the story. This is an episode that hammers in just what we're missing. What are their true expressions when we are only given part of them? What else has been left out?
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Nov 14, 2023 22:02
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Big Leg posted:this is kind of dumb, but i think it's neat how many scenes are filled with gaps and chasms and darkness in an episode that fills in some pretty important missing pieces of the story. No I think that's a really cool thing to point out Big Leg posted:i'm interested to see if the third act will be some kind of synthesis of the two or something else entirely. I'm really curious about your thoughts on this at this stage of the show. I personally think that the first arc is princes, the second arc is princesses, and this arc is about the borders breaking down, about the rose bride, they way anyone who doesn't fit perfectly is destroyed and the ways this affects people who try to become princes. In some ways I think all the duelists go through a miniature version of what Dios experiences, of not living up to princehood and being torn down by Akio. But it's also the culmination of the abuse that's been at least somewhat hidden until this point, where all the suffering people go through comes to the surface chrome line fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Nov 14, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 22:04
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chrome line posted:I don't want to be rude to anyone in this thread, but just because Akio is being less aggressive doesn't mean he's not still actively grooming Utena, and nothing we see here makes it feel any less clear that Akio is the abuser and that Anthy is the victim. this should not be controversial on any reading of the show so far whatsoever.
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Nov 14, 2023 22:27
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In case anyone wasn't already planning to, any new watcher should listen to the "Next Time" section at the end of episode 36. chrome line posted:I choose to believe the spotlights laying out the obvious here are for Utena's benefit and are as diagetic as anything in this show is. I love the confidence in Utena's ability to put 2 and 2 together. Something that I feel is important to bring up in the final stretch is the concept that Utena's ignorance actually has been genuinely hurtful many times in the show. Early on Juri describes Utena as “cruelly innocent”, and we've seen that there have been several times where she says something out of ignorance that hurts the person she's talking to or makes a situation needlessly worse. Often she will miss the point on something so hard that it's hard to not see it as wilful obliviousness. Utena as a character is rarely discussed even though she's supposedly the star of the show and in part I feel that's due to her inability or refusal to engage with the plot so often. She rarely learns anything and refuses to reconsider her positions while ignoring the toxic situations around her. In a show about abuse, I think this is an important element to pick up on.
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Nov 14, 2023 22:49
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Nephthys posted:In case anyone wasn't already planning to, any new watcher should listen to the "Next Time" section at the end of episode 36. I think the ignoring signs of danger bit is an aspect of a naively princely character.
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Nov 14, 2023 22:51
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Nephthys posted:In case anyone wasn't already planning to, any new watcher should listen to the "Next Time" section at the end of episode 36. I think she's oblivious and ignorant, and that's a consistent character trait. However I do think she's slowly coming to realize something is rotten in Ohtori Academy. Her general demeanor has changed a lot from the start of the show, it's subtle but it's there. Even if you disagree that she might have had a realization about Anthy and Akio specifically, or had any thoughts as to why they were the only ones there beyond "that's weird," I think it's clear that she wanted to discuss the content of the play in that moment (if nothing else because of how it portrays princeliness as a very specific thing that Utena doesn't really live up to) and Akio very much wanted to avoid doing so. I also think the idea that the spotlights are diagetic but she still didn't pick up on anything or think about the way the shadow play girls said "BEWARE" directly at the audience is very funny, so I like that read a lot
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Nov 14, 2023 23:49
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chrome line posted:I also think the idea that the spotlights are diagetic but she still didn't pick up on anything or think about the way the shadow play girls said "BEWARE" directly at the audience is very funny, so I like that read a lot I like to think that her review of the play was "Huh, that was a bit short. Why did they insist that I needed to see it?"
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Nov 14, 2023 23:55
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chrome line posted:I think she's oblivious and ignorant, and that's a consistent character trait. However I do think she's slowly coming to realize something is rotten in Ohtori Academy. Her general demeanor has changed a lot from the start of the show, it's subtle but it's there. Even if you disagree that she might have had a realization about Anthy and Akio specifically, or had any thoughts as to why they were the only ones there beyond "that's weird," I think it's clear that she wanted to discuss the content of the play in that moment (if nothing else because of how it portrays princeliness as a very specific thing that Utena doesn't really live up to) and Akio very much wanted to avoid doing so. The play is maybe the closest she's gotten to twigging that something off is happening, so you may be right there. I wasn't directly trying to contradict you, but that and other things got me thinking about Utena's role in the abuse which can be easily overlooked. It's treated as a kind of running joke in the show that Utena completely misses all the signs that things are wrong around her or wildly misses the point (like when her reaction to the play about Juri being gay is "just don't be gay"  ) but just like how a lot of predatory behavior gets excused as "just kidding" it actually is something serious when you actually think about how hurtful her innocent cruelty can be.
Nephthys fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Nov 15, 2023 |
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Nov 15, 2023 02:09
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Nephthys posted:"just don't be gay" classic bisexual take. my sisters are out here causing problems
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Nov 15, 2023 02:13
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While the show really is about Anthy and her escaping the extreme vile male toxicity of her only family member, it's Utena -- being the one with the protagonist role -- that will have to eventually figure out what is going and leave her own obliviousness and naivety behind her to actually achieve change. It's the classic hero's journey after all, described in the simplified way of becoming a "prince". And Akio hates the living hell out of that. Akio does not want change and he will forever blame Anthy for his own failings and make her suffer along with everyone around her. It's why he's been hellbent on ruining Utena, first indirectly through the first student council duels with strangers, then with the more disturbing, personal Black Rose duels, and finally by directly taking the stage himself to groom and rape her to destroy her "nobility".
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Nov 15, 2023 03:38
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Ohtori Akio posted:classic bisexual take. my sisters are out here causing problems
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Nov 15, 2023 05:23
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chrome line posted:No I think that's a really cool thing to point out that's a great question lol. i've been somewhat deliberately putting this off because this third act is tough and it's easier to post funny gifs than struggle with the bigger themes (especially as a first timer). luckily my unconscious apparently grappled with this all night after you asked and i woke up at 5 am with some thoughts on the matter that i'll try to type out as i pretend to work today.
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Nov 15, 2023 14:26
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chrome line posted:I'm really curious about your thoughts on this at this stage of the show. I personally think that the first arc is princes, the second arc is princesses thoughts on the matter: the first two acts don't exactly paint a glowing picture of the prince/princess interpretation of the world, but why does the third act of utena turn our princes into sexual abusers and our princesses into victims? is becoming a prince really defined by a rite of passage into the sexual assault club? is a princess nothing more than her eternal torment at the hands of a prince? i don't think the overall theme of utena is that adulthood is entirely defined by victims and abusers and people = poo poo. it's about realizing our naive childhood view of morality isn't enough to get by in an unforgiving and often evil world. the prince and princess fairytale cannot survive through adolescence. we see this as each student council member is failed by the akio-centric model of princedom. they leave their duels broken and in pain, ultimately betrayed by their prince or failing their princess. and yet despite all the awful poo poo that happens to them i left each duel more hopeful for their future. it seemed like they were now equipped to move past their trauma, their childhood insecurities, their naive views of the world. in the end, akio isn't the sole arbiter of adulthood. he's a single hosed up person who exists to force our characters to redefine themselves and overcome their childish, often selfish expressions of morality. if the first act is about princes, and the second is about princesses, then i think the third act is about a role i hadn't really considered until i saw a sick production a few days ago by the always enlightening Shadow Players. akio isn't a prince or a princess, he's a monster. https://i.imgur.com/HMzJdBm.mp4
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Nov 15, 2023 15:36
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with one block of episodes left, i still have no idea what's going to happen (besides  ). the contrast between touga and utena in the last 3 episodes makes me think we have some more to say about trying to become a prince or a princess (or a monster).episode 34 fundamentally changes our understanding of utena's motivations. the prince she met in the past is helpless, powerless, someone who can only define himself through his inability to save the one he loves. she doesn't want to be a prince because of akio, she decided to become a prince to save anthy. Touga is the opposite. from his perspective, akio is secure, powerful, someone who can appear on horseback and save anyone. he also ends up falling into the same patterns of abuse that akio does. utena is emboldened by akio's failure, touga by the perceived success. will utena's revolutionary perspective dismantle the prince/princess hierarchy? i don't know Big Leg fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Nov 15, 2023 |
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Nov 15, 2023 15:58
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It is Saionji, of all people, who is now capable of finding a glimpse of truth about the dichotomy.   He rebukes Touga's wish to become an all-powerful Prince by pointing out that it is because the Prince exists they are all cast into the role of the helpless Princess. Also taking off analysis hat for a moment to gush about the Duel in 36 and how loving cool it is. I must have rewatched it dozens of times. Tonfa fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Nov 15, 2023 |
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Nov 15, 2023 17:16
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So, when do we get to tell people what Touga's backstory is? After the movie?
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Nov 15, 2023 22:14
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Maera Sior posted:So, when do we get to tell people what Touga's backstory is? After the movie? Yeah, that's when it shows up on screen. Wasn't it supposed to be in the show but had to get cut for time after his VA was sick?
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Nov 15, 2023 22:42
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chrome line posted:Yeah, that's when it shows up on screen. Wasn't it supposed to be in the show but had to get cut for time after his VA was sick? I know it was supposed to show up in the show but I don't know why it was cut. My guess is that they received pushback on portraying pedophilic rape .
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Nov 15, 2023 23:00
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Maera Sior posted:I know it was supposed to show up in the show but I don't know why it was cut. My guess is that they received pushback on portraying pedophilic rape . What I'd heard was that Takehito Koyasu was sick or injured or something for much of the black rose arc and that's why he barely shows up at all in it. I couldn't find a source for that, or even find where I'd heard it, but it doesn't seem likely given he was still doing a lot of work in 1997. Mostly minor roles, but still pretty busy. Yours seems more likely
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Nov 15, 2023 23:15
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I thought he had some sort of stage thing going on that caused a scheduling conflict.
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Nov 15, 2023 23:47
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 Carrots and metaphors and such like.
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Nov 17, 2023 17:17
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Episode 35! Going to try and make this one shorter, these are getting to be unwieldy Storybook opening again, but it transitions into the flashback from last episode. The episode starts for real with Touga and Akio driving, discussing the duels. Akio puts on the soundtrack and we transition into the next scene with piano still playing. On the one hand this is a common thing that happens in movies or tv, but on the other it does show Akio's influence over the school and the show. Utena is watching Anthy while remembering glimpses of her meeting with the prince. Now it's Utena's turn to bring something up and then demure. They bring into question whether her meeting with Dios was a memory or a dream. Utena asks to see Anthy's face and as they turn their heads towards each other the show really draws attention to that motion. Utena asks "Is it possible that you and I-" and then Akio opens the door. Can't let them actually connect or communicate, that's not allowed! As Akio walks off with Utena Anthy holds her smiling face until a few seconds after the door closes behind them and she looks deeply sad. On the walk Akio continues to casually try and make it sound like being friends with Anthy. He starts talking about legends and symbolism behind the poppy to impress Utena, while the camera pans out revealing they're in a maze with the car there as well. Obviously Utena is trapped with Akio, but given the nature of the poppies she could just walk away. She's physically capable of leaving this maze, but the path out is hard to find unless she's willing to start breaking the unspoken rules. This episode has several scenes where audio starts before the visuals transition. Touga's photoshoot with Akio is audible during the pan out in the last scene. When the camera snaps Akio transforms into End of the World, shirt open and everything, and on future shots his shirt opens further as he poses. They're taking pictures on top of a pyramid of cars, which given the broader symbolism of cars in this arc has a lot of potential reads. Akio demands Touga get Utena a gift, and it's becoming clear (if it wasn't already) that his relationship with Touga isn't that different from his relationship with Utena. Touga finds Utena on the staircase with Wakaba, who remembers the end of the first arc and is still mad. Touga delivers a pair of earrings "from the chairman" and starts fiddling with his carrot. Utena is pleased by the gift, but still knows what she likes and doesn't in clothes. Wakaba forces them on her anyways, and shortly thereafter combos her. Touga gets horny and puts the carrot on his forehead in a piece of symbolism so blatant I feel foolish for even talking about it, and asks her out. It breaks my heart that Wakaba is so worried about Utena being assaulted by Touga (telling her to avoid being alone with him) but was so excited to see Akio's gift. They're riding a horse together, which I will connect with the carrot from earlier. What does it mean? I don't know, but I'm going to say Touga fed the horse his carrot, as a treat. After a quick conversation about how horses are tied to princehood (making Touga's failure at riding the horse compared to Akio's even more obvious as a measure of their true princeliness) Akio saves Utena from falling off the horse. He's even on a white horse. Touga is now introspective, staring out into the distance. After accepting a confession with a quick kiss, a butterfly lands on the rose he was holding. He goes off to homoerotically spar with Saionji who starts insulting him, managing to hit just about all of Touga's insecurities. Their bout ends and the camera focuses on 2 sheathed swords. I assume that means they kept it in their pants until the student council scene. This shadow play is maybe the most blatant in the show, about Touga falling in love with Utena because she's the one girl he can't have. The mermaid who resists him responds "koi" when asked what she is, showing that Touga can have all the girls he wants but he can't get love like that. Anthy is in bed, no glasses, staring at the ceiling. Utena is sitting alone, studying the earrings and remembering her day with Akio. She's starting to believe he's her prince, but Anthy comes to get her. So much of the balk half of the show is finding meaning in Anthy's expressions. She looks so sad. Touga and Akio chat, shirts open among the tiny cacti. I guess that's like a hedgehog's dilemna thing, they're both so scared of pain that they've become people who can only interface with others by manipulating and hurting them. The one Touga's holding blooms in his hand as Akio says he's rooting for him. Touga and Saionji ride the student council elevator and reminisce on their first meeting with Utena. The organ music doesn't kick in until after they're out of the elevator, which is interesting. They're having a press conference to show that even alone with each other they feel the need to keep their masks on. They spend the conversation stripping dramatically, and Saionji continues to genuinely have insight into the situation, which is loving wild. The coffin is a symbol this show has come back to again and again, second only to roses, and Saionji is the one to start actually thinking about what the coffin means. Utena and Anthy are having a picnic, Utena has decided to keep trying the earrings, and is showing them off to Anthy and Chuchu. Utena is reflected in Anthy's glasses, and when Utena turns to look at Anthy for a brief moment she sees Anthy as she truly is, suffering the pain of all those swords she got stabbed with. They're metaphorical swords, but also probably real ones. Utena can't remember or notice the truth, but she's getting closer. For now they sit peacefully . In the next time on Utena says "There are people like princes, ones who may be princes, and ones I'd like to be princes. But an actual prince? Well..." and I'd love to know who she's thinking of there. Is it just Akio for all three? Probably, but I hope not. Also Anthy says "there are worse things than duels" and I get very sad thinking about Anthy again. This was like half as long as the last one, both because I was making an effort and because I started this on Tuesday, paused a bit before the eyecatch, and then completely lost my analysis brain when finishing it up just now
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Nov 18, 2023 12:11
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chrome line posted:Touga finds Utena on the staircase with Wakaba, who remembers the end of the first arc and is still mad. Touga delivers a pair of earrings "from the chairman" and starts fiddling with his carrot. Utena is pleased by the gift, but still knows what she likes and doesn't in clothes. Wakaba forces them on her anyways, and shortly thereafter combos her. Touga gets horny and puts the carrot on his forehead in a piece of symbolism so blatant I feel foolish for even talking about it, and asks her out. It breaks my heart that Wakaba is so worried about Utena being assaulted by Touga (telling her to avoid being alone with him) but was so excited to see Akio's gift. Ugh, reading your posts has really highlighted how often Wakaba has unwittingly helped Akio predate on Utena. Poor girl just wants to have fun with some harmless crushes and doesn't know what she's doing. Also count me as someone who has never given a poo poo about Touga or Saionji and never will. I get that every character has their own "coffin" so to speak but their brand of misogyny just isn't something I can really forgive or forget. gently caress em.
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Nov 18, 2023 23:15
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Nephthys posted:Also count me as someone who has never given a poo poo about Touga or Saionji and never will. I get that every character has their own "coffin" so to speak but their brand of misogyny just isn't something I can really forgive or forget. gently caress em. I find them pretty interesting (thought they're the student council members I find least compelling), but also I do agree gently caress em.
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Nov 19, 2023 00:54
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i watched the ending ahead of time. pre-monday non-spoiler thoughts: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Nov 20, 2023 02:55
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i am not finished catching up to where i am supposed to be. it has been a busy week. nevertheless, let us discuss the finale its insanely loving good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! maybe we can let the finale discussion cook for a week or two before we watch the movie.
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Nov 20, 2023 08:22
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i caught up on last weeks stuff...... 35 the shot of anthy going from a villainous smile to :c hurts so bad lol at the car parked ten meters away in the maze utena being completely out of her depth with a manipulator like akio hurts real bad the cactus scene owns. this show is so CONFIDENT!!!!!! 36 the visual language of busting your shirt off seems to be really apparent here. i think it’s this idea of having finally reached manhood by enjoying to display your body in a sexual manner? two points of comparison come to mind for me. the first is masonry lol: the ritual of baring one’s upper body as proof of manhood and worth of initiation to a brotherhood. the second is of course the shirtless women depicted in this very program, who are receiving their own initiation to a very different kind of sisterhood akio feeling her rear end by the lake sucks so bad dude. he is completely without shame saionji wearing a collar: i don't like not being in control :c "chu-chu, are you always left alone when she goes to visit her brother like this?" <- chu-chu is also a fragment of anthy's personality imo touga trying to be a white knight after all this is a whole lot. and even when he has his little moment of maturity, he cannot resist trying to solve problems with more princedom cutting those cars in half fucks so hard. anime ftw the lingering far-focus shot at the bed is so much. and then what a horrible setup for the finale i'll try to catch the finale tomorrow.
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Nov 20, 2023 10:25
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| # ? May 22, 2024 18:18 |
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INVERSIONS IN UTENA: many characters or pseudocharacters are direct inversions of each other. dios and akio of course, and i would argue utena and anthy. the inverted castle is the nature of these two inversions: the real human being has their feet pointed down, but the fictional, perhaps at one time real, but now a fictionalized past, version of them is a prince living in a castle that isn't really there. there are a bunch of less core symmetries like miki and kozue, anthy and nanami, hell touga and saionji. we also have triplets that form choruses. but i think the most important pairs by far are the real people with their unreal princesonas.
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Nov 20, 2023 10:31
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