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Zod chose violent, indiscriminate genocide over the thought of a coexistence that included any discomfort, no matter how temporary, for Kryptonians. 
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Nov 16, 2023 22:25
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| # ? May 25, 2024 15:22 |
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ungulateman posted:in light of recent events, it's occurred to me how conducive Man of Steel is to an anti-zionist reading. DAVID BEN-GURION: For some time, your world has sheltered one of my citizens. I request that you return this individual to my custody. ... He will have made efforts to blend in. He will look like you. But he is not one of you.
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Nov 16, 2023 22:36
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MJeff posted:Zod chose violent, indiscriminate genocide over the thought of a coexistence that included any discomfort, no matter how temporary, for Kryptonians. And chose Earth for largely symbolic and kind of spiteful reasons. The world engine could probably have turned Venus or Mars or just literally any random suitable exoplanet into New Krypton, but it had to be this particular inhabited world because reasons.
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Nov 16, 2023 22:37
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Xealot posted:And chose Earth for largely symbolic and kind of spiteful reasons. The world engine could probably have turned Venus or Mars or just literally any random suitable exoplanet into New Krypton, but it had to be this particular inhabited world because reasons. The reason was "they are destroying themselves the same way Krypton did".
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Nov 16, 2023 22:37
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I mean, yeah, the reasons are "these are the themes present in this story."
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Nov 16, 2023 22:38
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ungulateman posted:The birth matrix is the loving sperm extraction corps of the IDF lmao
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Nov 16, 2023 22:39
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I stil can't believe 'sperm retrieval squad' is an actual thing that exists. Someone summed up the war as 'you can tell Israel hasn't had to explain themselves to anyone in a long time.' And yeah, MoS is explicitly anti colonialist, and dovetails nicely with Avatar's anti-colonialist message from a few years earlier.
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Nov 16, 2023 22:54
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Xealot posted:I mean, yeah, the reasons are "these are the themes present in this story." Now that I think about it, that kind of thing tends to happen a lot in fictional stories...
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Nov 16, 2023 23:20
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Snowman_McK posted:I stil can't believe 'sperm retrieval squad' is an actual thing that exists. Someone summed up the war as 'you can tell Israel hasn't had to explain themselves to anyone in a long time.' Whoof, that really fits, doesn't it? Reminds me of the themes a bit more at the fore in Invincible, with a colonialist clearly torn between his family within the subjects and duty to the empire, with the point being you can't have it both ways. On that note also, apparently the author has said they weren't familiar with Dragon Ball and the similarities are a genuine coincidence. Which is lol for a few reasons, but I do believe them, there's not really a lot of similarities beyond both the Vitrumites and Saiyans being takes on what happens if you make Kryptonians more militarised... which for that matter, Man of Steel also does.
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Nov 17, 2023 03:11
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Nabbed tickets for the NYC screening. Happy to see that most of these screenings seem to be pretty packed. Snyder heads turning out.
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Nov 19, 2023 23:03
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imo shameful of Snyder that he didn't set up a screening in his true spiritual home, Michigan.
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Nov 19, 2023 23:32
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https://twitter.com/RestoreMiAmor/status/1726497292583354755
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Nov 20, 2023 20:54
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Director makes movie with a group of military thugs obsessed with pure bloodlines as the villains. Brain jenius asks the question, "Does this director support fascism?"
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Nov 21, 2023 03:26
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People still call Man of Steel a nazi movie. It's bizarre.
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Nov 21, 2023 03:30
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Lmao
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Nov 21, 2023 03:55
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we're so far out from the DCEU stuff now that I think those voices have largely died out
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Nov 21, 2023 04:18
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Nov 21, 2023 10:29
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I got recommended a video on YouTube about The Watchmen and one particular thing that just stuck in my brain. They were talking about how the comic was flat angles and that the violence wasn't glamorized or cool like the movie version. And all I kept thinking was "did people forget how movies work" because I don't get this critique about the movie and the stupid loving squid.  I read the god drat comics and I was fine with it being Dr.Manhattan, I mean why wouldn't the earth fear a super powered individual might reign hellfire on them and why wouldn't they band together against that instead of an unknown alien race or whatever. What is the hang up about the squid?
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Nov 22, 2023 18:34
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Again, it's telling that the critic saw a guy get a brutal compound fracture and start screaming and said to themselves "ah, yes, the cool violence. I dig it." A real touchstone to me - and I've been harping on this for years, so sorry if you've heard me say this a dozen times before - is the people who say that 300 "glorifies fascism" when it opens with a big pile of baby skulls and a kid smashing another kid's face. Right at the beginning of the movie! If somebody forgets about that because of the Sick Spartanz Skillz, they've told on themselves. That's not the movie's fault.
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Nov 22, 2023 18:41
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What makes that critique not work for me is that the violence in the comic is cool as hell
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Nov 22, 2023 19:13
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2house2fly posted:What makes that critique not work for me is that the violence in the comic is cool as hell I know. As a kid, I thought so too. Also there's literally a scene in the comic where Laurie and Dan literally walk into an alley looking to beat up people and literally the end panel of it is literally them hot and bothered like they had sex. Like that's why I never got the "Snyder didn't get the comic" when the comic literally shows that all the superheroes are psychopaths in each way,including Dan and Laurie.
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Nov 22, 2023 19:25
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Yes but he used Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah and he doesn't understand that song. No, I won't tell you what I think it means because that opens me up to other people telling me I'm wrong because art is subjective. Just trust me on this.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:06
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The Hallelujah bit is one of the funniest moments in a comic book movie, I love it
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Nov 22, 2023 21:53
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It's a weird complaint because when I first saw that scene in the alley I was totally turned off by the over the top violence, and i find it strange that people don't see the disturbing aspect of it, or the part manhattan explodes people and their innards hang from the ceiling. Like yeah, you can think it's cool, but if you also don't find it a little bit disturbing you're probably very desensitized to violence!
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Nov 22, 2023 22:41
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Maybe this is a weird take, but what I appreciate about Zack's comic movies is that he deliberately makes the violence disturbing, and the costs for being a superhero severe. In doing that, he rejects the power fantasy that a lot of superhero/comic book movies gravitate toward becoming. Being Superman means people view you as a god or a devil, which is unsettling when you have the self awareness to realize you're a fallible person who just happens to be able to do different things. Being Batman is soul-crushing because fighting crime makes you a target, and it can cost you your humanity and your loved ones. Being Wonder Woman is exhausting because you see how your efforts mean so little in the grand scale of things. Those hardships highlight the sacrifices the heroes make, and the moments they triumph. There is weight behind the victories, and the fact that he kept the costs and consequences in subsequent films make the stories feel real. tl;dr I love Zack Snyder! 
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Nov 22, 2023 23:17
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:The Hallelujah bit is one of the funniest moments in a comic book movie, I love it It legit makes perfect sense too as it’s exactly what Dan would be feeling after feeling while ago with his suit on and getting the girl he’s been wanting all these years. No performance problems this time. The ending too has Laurie and Dan getting excited over the prospect of smashing criminals later that night in an obvious foreplay. Crazy behavior for the supposed good heroes.
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Nov 22, 2023 23:22
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A lot of the mid '10s turn on Snyder came down to exactly how disturbing he portrays violence. The moralizing is downstream of that discomfort.
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Nov 22, 2023 23:31
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Right. I think every movie of his except Dawn of the dead and JL has some sort of duality to the violence. In 300 it was propaganda to make fascists look cool In the owl movie he made a point to have the old hero talk about how war is unglamorous hell that leaves you bitter and crippled In Sucker Punch it's just straight up allegory for sexual exploitation In Watchmen, as mentioned, it's meant to be over the top and disturbing In MoS it's there to remind us that the collateral damage when Gods fight is terrifying and to undermine the power fantasy ideal that Superman is often associated with In BvS it can be seen as a commentary that someone like Batman can't do what he does without a bodycount, there's no such thing as "sanitized violence" In Army of the dead the "good guys" are an allegory for colonialists invading foreign soil to steal resources and murders the locals I recall an interview with the Snyders where they talk about how they really don't like sanitizing violence because it sends a bad message to the audience, and honestly I respect that stance a lot.
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Nov 23, 2023 00:39
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ZS movies underline two key points about violence: That it is scary and also: very cool to watch.
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Nov 23, 2023 01:21
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McCloud posted:Right. I think every movie of his except Dawn of the dead and JL has some sort of duality to the violence. I can't help but see the guy who is hiding in the gun shop as an examination of the type of internet chatter around 'Zombie Outbreak Plans' that every nerd and their dog has, people coming up with their super-rational plans on how they would survive the zombie apocalypse, unlike those idiots in movies. Guy is bunkered down in a gun shop and is a cool crack-shot dude. Almost starves to death though, and ends up dying trying to get some food. Violence won't save you in an apocalypse, but co-operation might.
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Nov 23, 2023 02:02
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well why not posted:ZS movies underline two key points about violence: That it is scary and also: very cool to watch. The hyper-stylisation and intensity is key to that. Especially in a cinema environment, the action scenes and setpieces are almost overwhelming, designed to make a strong impact. That works both for making it scary AND making it cool.
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Nov 23, 2023 11:09
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I went and read Miracle Man because I heard it was a proper Superman-esque story where the godlike superhero disarms all the nukes and builds a utopia. In that series there is a situation where the Zod-like character briefly gets ahold of London and he and Miracle Man battle it out. It was very good at depicting the horror and trauma of such an event. Much, much scarier than what Snyder put out with his Superman films. I feel like Superman and all the implications of such characters are handled poorly by everyone, but Snyder is still better than all the rest have been at nudging the audience towards an understanding of the horrors of these invincible demon gods smashing around in a city.
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Nov 23, 2023 18:33
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I think with Snyder he wanted to balance that complete deconstruction of the character with something that general audiences can relate to. We've seen the response to him even going that far. Even some of the people who liked the idea would still go "Superman isn't the character to tell these stories with." I feel, like with Star Wars, people who handle the character are so deathly afraid of moving out of the comfort zone of these franchises and that fandom, as a whole, don't want that sort of thing. In Star Wars I'd love stories centuries removed from the current crop with whole new alien and ship designs. Move the timeline forward. But we either go back in time, which is fine, but it still has the same familiarity with the aliens and technology or we're stuck in the same 10-30 year period of the Prequels and Original trilogy. It's creatively stagnant. I feel the same way with how people want the Superman character to be and the situations he finds himself in. Let your dad make mistakes and have complex emotions!
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Nov 23, 2023 19:10
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Jimbot posted:I think with Snyder he wanted to balance that complete deconstruction of the character with something that general audiences can relate to. We've seen the response to him even going that far. Even some of the people who liked the idea would still go "Superman isn't the character to tell these stories with." I feel, like with Star Wars, people who handle the character are so deathly afraid of moving out of the comfort zone of these franchises and that fandom, as a whole, don't want that sort of thing. Yeah absolutely, I don't think actual 'Superman fans' want him to be like Alan Moore's Miracleman. I think Snyder may have taken some inspiration from Miracleman though in that the end of Miracleman's battle in London has him being basically forced by the insane genocidal villain to finish him, much like we saw in Man of Steel with the Zod neck snap and that was enough on its own to piss off fans of Supe. I am quite pleased by how Snyder pushed the character and peoples perceptions of him beyond the campiness of previous films. I don't think we need gritty ultraviolent Superman but pushing the envelope a bit the way Snyder did really worked for me. Writing this just made me realise that my favorite Silver Surfer story from back in the day also features that hero being forced to kill a genocidal psycho. I guess having all this power, trying to be a pacifist and do the right thing, and then being forced to kill has resonated with me since I was a kid. Sometimes you just have to kill these assholes and it sucks but that is part of being a godlike entity edit: I found the story, it was Shades of Guilt from a Surfer anthology in 1990 https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Silver_Surfer_Annual_Vol_1_3 which means I was exposed to this trope ~23 years before Snyder did the neck snap. Superman comics always seemed so much more tame by comparison to the other stuff I was reading Turpitude fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Nov 23, 2023 |
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Nov 23, 2023 19:27
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The hyper-stylisation and intensity is key to that. Especially in a cinema environment, the action scenes and setpieces are almost overwhelming, designed to make a strong impact. That works both for making it scary AND making it cool. In the same sense that comedy and horror are often two sides of the same coin, so are trauma and coolness. Every toddler who cries at the Night at Bald mountain segment in Fantasia goes on to remember it as their favorite. Turpitude posted:Writing this just made me realise that my favorite Silver Surfer story from back in the day also features that hero being forced to kill a genocidal psycho. I guess having all this power, trying to be a pacifist and do the right thing, and then being forced to kill has resonated with me since I was a kid. Sometimes you just have to kill these assholes and it sucks but that is part of being a godlike entity Haus of Decline's Steven Universe vs Hitler comic really cut to the quick on that discourse.
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Nov 23, 2023 19:49
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My toddler loved the night at bald mtn sequence, but he did cry at Tom & Jerry: The Nutcracker lol Edit: Sometimes art just hits you different
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Nov 23, 2023 22:52
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Turpitude posted:Yeah absolutely, I don't think actual 'Superman fans' want him to be like Alan Moore's Miracleman. I think Snyder may have taken some inspiration from Miracleman though in that the end of Miracleman's battle in London has him being basically forced by the insane genocidal villain to finish him, much like we saw in Man of Steel with the Zod neck snap and that was enough on its own to piss off fans of Supe. I am quite pleased by how Snyder pushed the character and peoples perceptions of him beyond the campiness of previous films. I don't think we need gritty ultraviolent Superman but pushing the envelope a bit the way Snyder did really worked for me. Part of the reason I liked Black Adam at all was because its core message was shared by MoS, which is that if we are serious about defending our ideals and protect people we care about, sometimes lethal violence is the only option that is left to us.
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Nov 23, 2023 23:37
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McCloud posted:Part of the reason I liked Black Adam at all was because its core message was shared by MoS, which is that if we are serious about defending our ideals and protect people we care about, sometimes lethal violence is the only option that is left to us. Too bad the straw henchmen Black Adam had were so paper thin, and then they were orchestrated by a local dude anyway.
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Nov 24, 2023 04:51
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https://twitter.com/theeSNYDERVERSE/status/1728136621856297128?s=20
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Nov 25, 2023 00:00
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I kind of wish he was able to exact that kind of punishment on Chris loving D'Elia
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Nov 25, 2023 00:33
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