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Aggro posted:He’s also a staunch anti-abortionist. But he’s entirely in favor of legalizing organ trading. imo it's totally consistent to want more babies if you're in favor of organ trading (and openly equivocating on selling children) it's just basic supply and demand might also help with economic and import-export woes
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Nov 20, 2023 01:42
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I love my family but I have instituted a no-politics directive in the WhatsApp group or I will leave because gently caress all of this
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Nov 20, 2023 03:00
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Sephyr posted:Milei elected in Argentina. lmao good luck hermanos
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Nov 20, 2023 03:18
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it is supremely over
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Nov 20, 2023 03:26
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mila kunis posted:I'm unsure which part of Milei threatening to cut ties with Argentina's two largest trading partners will help with hyperinflation, but I'm no economist. Radical revanchists and their entire constellation of right wing crazies never really solve economic problems, they just get everyone mad about them in order to take power and then dissolve anything that was still even just kind of in the way of the economic entities that were pillaging the country the hardest.
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Nov 20, 2023 04:00
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Fuschia tude posted:Dude calls himself an anarchocapitalist, isn't that a fairly different flavor of right-winger than those two? he's lying
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Nov 20, 2023 04:05
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He's far from a majority in the legislature though, right? How much of his wacky ideas can he actually follow through on?
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Nov 20, 2023 07:33
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Fash being elected is a problem, just because he might only burn down 40% of the country doesn't make it not a problem.
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Nov 20, 2023 10:07
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I feel like I really need to dig into what Argentina's deal is. Like how do you get into a position where you choices for president are either the guy who is presiding over hyperinflation or the nazi who's primary political advisor is a telepathic dog? I'm pretty sure for my entire life the only time I have heard about Argentina is in the context of their economy collapsing. I just really want to understand what is going on down there.
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Nov 20, 2023 11:37
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a pipe smoking dog posted:I feel like I really need to dig into what Argentina's deal is. Like how do you get into a position where you choices for president are either the guy who is presiding over hyperinflation or the nazi who's primary political advisor is a telepathic dog? In a word? Neoliberalism
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Nov 20, 2023 13:18
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Sephyr posted:Milei elected in Argentina. Motherfucker looks like he whipped Dracula to death 300 years ago.
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Nov 20, 2023 13:30
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Any Argentina goons lurking? Would be great to hear your thoughts on what's going on.
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Nov 20, 2023 14:24
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Scam Likely posted:Any Argentina goons lurking? Would be great to hear your thoughts on what's going on. Better than Massa.but two extremely lovely choices Dollarizatiom and eliminating the central bank are pipe dreams. Maybe he can reduce government expenditure? It’s argentina, more curious about what will happen than hopeful
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Nov 20, 2023 15:53
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People talking about dollarization as a good idea is so wild considering they already tried it once in the 90s and it crashed the economy
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Nov 20, 2023 15:57
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Aren't Milei's beliefs basically neoliberalism after a coke binge? He struck me as the choice of a bunch of people who think things can't get any worse because it's too depressing to realize that things can always get worse.
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Nov 20, 2023 15:59
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My understanding is that they literally don't have enough dollars for dollarization.
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Nov 20, 2023 16:01
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Badger of Basra posted:People talking about dollarization as a good idea is so wild considering they already tried it once in the 90s and it crashed the economy But what an amazing 10 year run! People got tired of a bust and bust cycle, they are hoping for a boom. I don’t think anyone is actually hopeful og going back to Argentina’s heyday. But yeah, dollarizatiom is probably an allure to “just” 10-15% of his base, he will probably change tone, because it really is impossible without doing idiotic stuff Eric Cantonese posted:Aren't Milei's beliefs basically neoliberalism after a coke binge? He struck me as the choice of a bunch of people who think things can't get any worse because it's too depressing to realize that things can always get worse. And voting for the finance minister presiding over 50% poverty and 150-200% inflation the recipe for things getting better?
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Nov 20, 2023 16:02
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Mr. Nemo posted:But what an amazing 10 year run! If Milei had a coherent platform, I suppose you could argue that maybe he'll bring a needed change, but it sounds like he's just going to hurt a lot of people and drive more people into poverty with fantastical ideas about cutting the parts of government he personally doesn't like. I don't really see how any of his ideas result in good outcomes. It's ugly either way, but I'd be more inclined to stick with the devil I know. Maybe the low prospects for legislative-based change will just means this is a much needed scare for the other parties? EDIT: I am assuming you guys know Argentina better than I do and have ideas on what Argentina needs to do to get better. It sounds like Milei, at best, offers paralysis as opposed to going forward with more of the same old stuff. Is that not the case? Eric Cantonese fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Nov 20, 2023 |
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Nov 20, 2023 16:08
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The best case scenario for a Milei government is a boom for the upper middle class at the expense of increased income inequality, eroded labor rights and marginalization of LGBTQ people. The worst case is an economic collapse PLUS all of the above. lol @ “worse than Massa” jfc
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Nov 20, 2023 16:43
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I would have voted for any neoliberal dipshit opposing to Bolsonaro here in Brazil, Fortunately he had better choices, in both elections, but I would have voted for an Aécio against him without flinching. He might be poo poo, but at least not an openly nazi poo poo But in any case, Massa seems an incredibly bad choice to run against Miel and Im still baffled by the fact they could find anything better
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Nov 20, 2023 17:02
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Elias_Maluco posted:But in any case, Massa seems an incredibly bad choice to run against Miel and Im still baffled by the fact they could find anything better How many people knew better than to try to run while being tied to the hyperinflation? I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other people decided it was better to hold back and let some other sucker do all the unpopular stuff.
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Nov 20, 2023 17:05
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Rigged Death Trap posted:In a word? Well yes el problema es el capitalismo, obviously, but what is it about Argentina that makes it so spectacularly deranged?
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Nov 20, 2023 17:13
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Well yes el problema es el capitalismo, obviously, but what is it about Argentina that makes it so spectacularly deranged? There are 4 types of economies. Developed nations, underdeveloped nations, Japan and Argentina. Don't ask for explanations, enjoy the journey. Milei will privatize stuff, it will get expropriated again. Same as it ever was. Massa will be president yet. His name is too close to Messi, and Messi had to lose a final before winning, mark my words. What party will he be running with? Who knows. But he sure would beat a Kicillof presidency. Milei at least has a "reduce the state and train the people to work" message, not even Bullrich was clear with that, despite how obvious it is.
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Nov 20, 2023 17:17
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^^^^^ fffffffffffffa pipe smoking dog posted:Well yes el problema es el capitalismo, obviously, but what is it about Argentina that makes it so spectacularly deranged? There's this quote among economists: "There are four kinds of countries: developed countries, underdeveloped countries, Japan, and Argentina." Doesn't answer your question, but shows that it's one of those countries that's hard to understand.
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Nov 20, 2023 17:18
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Argentina stuck in a bit of a nationalist economic trap. The default populist economic ideology is peronism. It advocates for spending driven growth, but Argentina is also used to a large trade surplus form it's exports of beef. So it's economics are based on spending as much as possible to improve society/the economy. Part of this maximization is debt driven spending, which can work in a perfectly spherical economy (and even real ones if you have a big risk tolerance and a decent business plan) with no waste and effective policy choices. Unfortunately it has to live in the real world. The central bank is weak to political pressure and so issues high interest rate loan tenders to keep spending up no matter what, instead of signaling to slow down excessive spending. A lot of the spending goes to politically connected business rather than things that could improve future revenues. Adding more debt is easier than taxing things and potentially suppressing whatever growth is happening. Any major disruption to beef exports craters their GDP. It just keeps happening. Argentina will find that any nation with a strong goods export market can get dollar denominated loans as easily as they could issue bonds and basically try running the country on a credit card instead of bonds. Fundamentally what they need is more realistic expectations on taxes and government spending, a strong and independent body that can block corrupt spending, and a more independent central bank and currency issuance body that tells them to pound sand if you ask for them to issue bonds that would kick above 9%. Fundamentally Argentina is what happens when you learn 'austerity bad' and take it to mean spending is good, wrapped up with incredibly ambitious visions for where you're nation should be compared to where it actually is. Though now if you want to do economic experiments all you need is a wireless speaker, a bribe to a mystic, and a photo of his dog! Act now, w'ere not sure how long this opportunity will last!
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Nov 20, 2023 17:22
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Barrel Cactaur posted:Argentina stuck in a bit of a nationalist economic trap. The default populist economic ideology is peronism. It advocates for spending driven growth, but Argentina is also used to a large trade surplus form it's exports of beef. So it's economics are based on spending as much as possible to improve society/the economy. Part of this maximization is debt driven spending, which can work in a perfectly spherical economy (and even real ones if you have a big risk tolerance and a decent business plan) with no waste and effective policy choices. Unfortunately it has to live in the real world. The central bank is weak to political pressure and so issues high interest rate loan tenders to keep spending up no matter what, instead of signaling to slow down excessive spending. A lot of the spending goes to politically connected business rather than things that could improve future revenues. Adding more debt is easier than taxing things and potentially suppressing whatever growth is happening. Any major disruption to beef exports craters their GDP. Of these different institutional/policy needs, what's the order of operations that makes them plausible?
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Nov 20, 2023 17:30
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Discendo Vox posted:Of these different institutional/policy needs, what's the order of operations that makes them plausible? Isn't that the million dollar question? Getting foreign investment is most likely out of the quesiton, they learned their lesson after Macri. A stronger judicial power would be a good start for Milei, and something he could feasibly accomplish. Turning off the money printing machine too. Reducing government spend. Of course firing people increases the need to print money for social plans until they get a job. So then you need to incentivize small companies, make it easier to do business. Lower the tax burden on them. Then yu get into making it easier to hire/fire people, which is a touchy issue.
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Nov 20, 2023 17:39
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Argentina should seek Renminbization
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Nov 20, 2023 17:52
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Discendo Vox posted:Of these different institutional/policy needs, what's the order of operations that makes them plausible? You need to start with much stronger civics education to shift popular policy towards a more viable model of political economics, then the anti corruption body, then whenever they manage to get footing again the more independent central bank. None of it will likely happen, I admit, because it's not in the next election interests of those in power at any point, thought making it word of Dog right now might be viable. Mr. Nemo posted:Getting foreign investment is most likely out of the quesiton, they learned their lesson after Macri. If only this was true, but of you slap a massive interest rate on a 30 year note you will find all the greedy, stupid people who have managed to worm their way into managing major bank portfolios, because it's an easy way to juice returns short term. If they didn't learn from round 2 they wouldn't learn from round 3. Barrel Cactaur fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Nov 20, 2023 |
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Nov 20, 2023 17:54
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Mr. Nemo posted:Better than Massa. Are you loving retarded, man. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 20, 2023 18:05
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Have a gut feeling that Austrian economics will not work out well for the average Argentine
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Nov 20, 2023 18:13
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I've got in laws strongly in on Milei. The Argentinian upper middle class, who are smart, see an opportunity to speed run Menem. Get their assets dolarised and out of the country over the next few years while the government sells off everything not nailed down. I'm assuming a lot of people voted for the possibility of change rather than more of the same when more of the same was already a total disaster. The people who think he will actually benefit the country are generally people who associate the Peronists with the left wing, so think everything right wing is going to be an improvement and also assume he's going to be moderated by whoever gets into the legislature. The hope would be that this results in a force for change/reform from the executive that gets compromised into practical and effective laws. So never going to happen. I'm expecting to hear YPF has been sold to a Russian oligarch, the minister that negotiated it shortly retires with mysterious wealth, Argentina gets sanctioned and the whole thing is renationalised again in 5 years. I also am avoiding family chats.
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Nov 20, 2023 22:28
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quote:and also assume he's going to be moderated by whoever gets into the legislature Ah, sounds familiar, i say, absentmindedly touching my own political scars and having vivid flashbacks
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Nov 20, 2023 22:44
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@losarrepentidosdemilei on Instagram is gonna be posting Milei voters complaining about Milei doing what he promised he'd do. Some funny content so far, some probably fake, but still 16 days to go
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Nov 24, 2023 19:56
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Seriously why are these wack job anti-"woke" populist winning seemingly everywhere
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Nov 26, 2023 13:00
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Kale posted:Seriously why are these wack job anti-"woke" populist winning seemingly everywhere Global support from various different right wing media companies and the infinite money hack of having billionaires back you up. That and they aren't winning everywhere, just recently Brazil and Nepal ended up with fairly Leftist governments.
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Nov 26, 2023 13:04
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Kale posted:Seriously why are these wack job anti-"woke" populist winning seemingly everywhere They're really not, but the human brain and news cycle prioritizes worrying about bad things over remembering the good things. Argentinian politics were a loving mess and not really the result of any real broader trends. Chile, Bolivia, and Brazil have leftist governments right now. I think Colombia might be more centrist. Peru is in the mess it's in because of electing its own wack job populist, but he was left-wing. If you're anxious about the Netherlands recently being taken by the right wing, Poland's right wing looks to be going out of power after its last election.
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Nov 26, 2023 17:45
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Yes, if anything Milei is bucking the most recent latinamerican trend. Of course a couple of years ago the trend WAS right wing stuff in latam, brasil, bolivia, chile and Argentina kind of had that going for a while. Now the pendulum is swinging the other way. It will all happen again.
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Nov 27, 2023 16:43
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Is there any chance of seeing a resurgence of military dicatorships in places like Argentina and Chile? Or has the army been dismantled too much over the past decades to carry any weight?
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Nov 27, 2023 17:10
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Mr. Nemo posted:Yes, if anything Milei is bucking the most recent latinamerican trend. Yeah, the ultimate uptake is that the average voter does the pretty rational consideration of "If things are good, re-elect; if things are bad, vote for the main opposition" and things are often bad in Latin America. The fact that looms keep getting elected is because our political institutions usually reject anyone with actual designs towards governance.
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Nov 27, 2023 17:35
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