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HopperUK posted:Let's maybe get away from the subject of AI art for a bit please, thread
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Nov 21, 2023 00:14
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| # ? May 31, 2024 13:59 |
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But what are Cuno’s thoughts on the matter?
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Nov 21, 2023 01:56
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Cunos a loving monk
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Nov 21, 2023 05:50
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Maybe we can finally live in the post-Capitalist Utopia where the robots do both the work people don't want to do, and the work people do want to do, and then people are free(r) to do what they want, even if it's play chess as a lifestyle and get dunked on by Deep Blue ad nauseum. Or the paradigm doesn't shift, capitalism eats it's critiques once more and we all go looking for a skulll full of cocaine for street cred to snort through our eye sockets. Tempting to embrace the inner Cuno, "something something care something" *finger guns and/or middle fingers into the bar, necks a tequila mixed, produced and served by non-humans* woOoooOO! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 21, 2023 08:11
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Shut the gently caress up
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Nov 21, 2023 08:13
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Nov 21, 2023 09:12
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An admin has twice now quoted the mod saying to cut the AI talk, even I'm not dumb enough to keep going with it. Suggested topic change: Your hottest Disco Elysium take. Garte did nothing wrong.
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Nov 21, 2023 13:14
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Well of course he didn't otherwise why would you be nodding at him
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Nov 21, 2023 13:28
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There's an impossible/legendary Empathy check with Garte somewhere where your brain will chime in that he really hates being the guy who has to remind you that you owe him money, and that a bit of the condescending tone he has is aimed at himself. Garte's been cutting you slack from the minute he's introduced, for one thing I'm pretty sure Harry realistically owes him a lot more than 130 réal, but the game still presents him as a turd for holding you partially accountable for pre-monday events. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 14:03
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Bobby Deluxe posted:An admin has twice now quoted the mod saying to cut the AI talk, even I'm not dumb enough to keep going with it. Just looked up Garte on the wiki to refresh myself on the Sylvie situation and was surprised to see that you can reconcile them and she actually was interested in Garte, but left because of Harry. Never knew that, even after 3 plays!
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Nov 21, 2023 14:11
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roomtwofifteen posted:Just looked up Garte on the wiki to refresh myself on the Sylvie situation and was surprised to see that you can reconcile them and she actually was interested in Garte, but left because of Harry. Never knew that, even after 3 plays!  E: If I remember rightly telling Garte makes him much nicer to you.
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Nov 21, 2023 14:14
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No I'm pretty sure she's riding the cock carousel
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Nov 21, 2023 14:15
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Benagain posted:No I'm pretty sure she's riding the cock carousel Never understood that metaphor. You don't swap steeds on a carousel.
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Nov 21, 2023 14:22
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Samovar posted:Never understood that metaphor. You don't swap steeds on a carousel. It's a carousel, of cocks. There are a lot of them
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Nov 21, 2023 14:49
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Bobby Deluxe posted:An admin has twice now quoted the mod saying to cut the AI talk, even I'm not dumb enough to keep going with it. Joyce is hot
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Nov 21, 2023 15:02
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:There's an impossible/legendary Empathy check with Garte somewhere where your brain will chime in that he really hates being the guy who has to remind you that you owe him money, and that a bit of the condescending tone he has is aimed at himself. I got this one. Empathy was my signature skill. I was surprised how it humanized Garte and was well-earned on the part of the writing. I was also a hardcore Communist so I even added a bit of solidarity for a worker just trying to get through his job.
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Nov 21, 2023 15:06
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Bobby Deluxe posted:An admin has twice now quoted the mod saying to cut the AI talk, even I'm not dumb enough to keep going with it.
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Nov 21, 2023 15:39
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JOHN SKELETON posted:Joyce > Evrart. Evrart is a real piece of poo poo. Yeah, Evrart is a real piece of poo poo. Evrart wins good contracts and takes care of the union, and that's all that matters. Joyce is Jeff Bezos.
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Nov 21, 2023 15:48
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JOHN SKELETON posted:Joyce > Evrart. Evrart is a real piece of poo poo. Yeah but Evrart is a human piece of poo poo, whereas Joyce is quite knowingly and willingly a cog in the vast machine that grinds people down into profits. If you compared all the evil they've done - the pain they've caused, the lives their actions have shortened or outright ended - Joyce would sit atop a towering mountain of bones while Evrart would still be way down below her, playing lord in his lovely little crate office (with some bones in it). Being able to politely distance herself from the consequences of her work does not in any way absolve her of them
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Nov 21, 2023 15:49
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mrs. messier is helping me understand the pale
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Nov 21, 2023 16:01
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Kim Kitsuragi has killed more people than the Racist Lorry Driver. Body count isn't everything.
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Nov 21, 2023 16:04
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Angry Diplomat posted:Yeah but Evrart is a human piece of poo poo, whereas Joyce is quite knowingly and willingly a cog in the vast machine that grinds people down into profits. If you compared all the evil they've done - the pain they've caused, the lives their actions have shortened or outright ended - Joyce would sit atop a towering mountain of bones while Evrart would still be way down below her, playing lord in his lovely little crate office (with some bones in it). Being able to politely distance herself from the consequences of her work does not in any way absolve her of them Joyce is personified capital exactly as Marx describes in Vol. 1 of Das Kapital. My hot take is that Kim has cop brain and is thus a bastard.
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Nov 21, 2023 16:33
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I like roleplaying as Harry du Bois in Baldur's Gate 3. Both games even start the same way! 
EorayMel fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 16:34
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I don't know, I think the contrast you're supposed to see is that Joyce is a friendly and helpful individual, but represents a nightmarish system that's wilfully destroying everything (and she's aware of this contrast); whereas Evrart is an unhelpful and exploitative individual who represents an ideology that is supposed to be for the better for everyone (and seems not to care about the contrast). Like a lot of other things in Disco, the point is in the comparison between ideology and the individual. They deliberately build up the union and the ideals it espouses, knowing you'll assume yhey're the good guys, and then you get to the end of the track and it's a smarmy shithead who's chair kills you.
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Nov 21, 2023 16:40
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Did anyone else completely agree with Evrart’s overarching goal, but still gently caress him over (because he’s such a corrupt piece of poo poo) by forging the signatures and revealing his complicity with the deserter to Jean?
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Nov 21, 2023 16:42
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Always do whatever supports and protects the union, always do whatever fucks over Evrart personally without endangering the union 
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Nov 21, 2023 16:50
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What makes Joice popular on the internet is that she is a stereotypical poster. She is happy to critique the system and ideology she profits from, but is utterly unwilling to to take any action that could inconvenience her. Just like us.
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Nov 21, 2023 16:50
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Angry Diplomat posted:Always do whatever supports and protects the union, always do whatever fucks over Evrart personally without endangering the union See, though, that’s the dilemma for me: thanks to how deeply he’s managed to worm his way into apparently becoming the (practical) absolute leader of the union, without any indications that there’s anyone other than his brother who is a serious contender for being anywhere close to as effective as he is, loving him over arguably is loving over the union, too.
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Nov 21, 2023 17:04
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That's sort of the 'devil you know' conundrum though. You barely find out anything about his brother, other than he's away sorting out other union stuff, but the implication is if you got Evrart kicked out, his brother is popular enough to just step right in his shoes. So the fear is the absolute unknown taking over, particularly knowing that this unknown will start off knowing that you personally are responsible for his brother getting the boot.
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Nov 21, 2023 17:08
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I thought the evident danger in the union is that with Evart running it for himself as much as anyone else it seems doomed to slide into a US-style business unionism and be defanged of any revolutionary potential by a corrupt leadership who just want to keep the money coming in
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Nov 21, 2023 17:15
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going art cop for a sec, this is also relevant to disco elysium itself in what says about art so let me just drop the one of the og's of Marxist aesthetics -- Benjamin's The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction. https://web.mit.edu/allanmc/www/benjamin.pdf quote:One might subsume the eliminated element in the term “aura” and go on to say: that which withers in the age of mechanical reproduction is the aura of the work of art. This is a symptomatic process whose significance points beyond the realm of art. One might generalize by saying: the technique of reproduction detaches the reproduced object from the domain of tradition. By making many reproductions it substitutes a plurality of copies for a unique existence. And in permitting the reproduction to meet the beholder or listener in his own particular situation, it reactivates the object reproduced. These two processeslead to a tremendous shattering of tradition which is the obverse of the contemporary crisis and renewal of mankind. --- JOHN SKELETON posted:Joyce > Evrart. Evrart is a real piece of poo poo. Joyce is an absolutely great representation of why individual morality matters none in that level of class. A good number of people in the upper classes are quite good company, pleasant to be around with and genuinely so. An individual like her in the very upper having those qualities and her degree of conviction (e.g. Joyce being absolutely sincere about that they should have burned the city down to the last instead of surrendering) is the rarity. But for all her subjective merits, she is still part of the true capitalist class - she's haute-bourgeoisie through and through. Wild Pines does exploitation in a global scale and at the multinational level, it has to use every trick it can to deliver more profitability to its shareholders because it is expected to, or else they jump. If Joyce doesn't want to or can't do it, someone else will in her place. However, she recognizes her own individual responsibility as a member of that class and thus the disproportionate power she leverages, which allows Harry to convince her to give up the terminal. That is a true subjective act of Joyce's, because it's a very bad idea for a capitalist of her calibre. And for that to happen, it takes a truly skilled motherfucker at the opposing helm to set up that quagmire. It's important to notice that Evrart is considered individually repugnant only outside of the Union, and for a very different reason for the Deserter ("social-democratic bootlicker" etc). The man has no qualms about dealing with force and subversion, which is really what makes the difference to fight back in terms of class warfare. In contrast to Joyce, his individual character matters none; the debardeurs had their lot improved since the Claires got in. And in the same way of her convictions, the game saves at the tail end of Claire's interaction to have the man belch fire about his - skills become impressed because they don't detect any mischief or subterfuge, he is being sincere. He truly believes in socialism.
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Nov 21, 2023 17:31
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I was under the impression that the "brother" is just Evrart himself circumventing the term limits with a bit of theatrical forgery.
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Nov 21, 2023 17:45
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Gaston taught them both as kids, so we do have evidence of Edgar’s existence
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Nov 21, 2023 17:48
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dead gay comedy forums posted:Joyce is an absolutely great representation of why individual morality matters none in that level of class. A good number of people in the upper classes are quite good company, pleasant to be around with and genuinely so. An individual like her in the very upper having those qualities and her degree of conviction (e.g. Joyce being absolutely sincere about that they should have burned the city down to the last instead of surrendering) is the rarity. Good post. Evrart and Joyce, in juxtaposition to each other, is probably the best character writing yet seen in games. I didn't fully appreciate it until my second or third playthrough when I dutifully acted as a go-between for their negotiations at every step and got the complete picture for them both. Oxxidation posted:Gaston taught them both as kids, so we do have evidence of Edgar’s existence And iirc Leo tells you that each brother has a different eye that's lazy. I think mainly Evrart serving in tandem with his twin is one of those details that's meant to put your guard up on your first playthrough because you're never quite sure who you're dealing with. MeatwadIsGod fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 18:08
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MeatwadIsGod posted:And iirc Leo tells you that each brother has a different eye that's lazy. I think mainly Evrart serving in tandem with his twin is one of those details that's meant to put your guard up on your first playthrough because you're never quite sure who you're dealing with. I think Edgar's the only one with a lazy eye, Evrart doesn't have one.
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Nov 21, 2023 18:25
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VictualSquid posted:What makes Joice popular on the internet is that she is a stereotypical poster. Isn't taking actions that inconveniences her literally the entirety of what she does in this game? It's why she is in Martinaise at all. You can argue she is doing too little too late, but not that she's doing nothing.
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Nov 21, 2023 18:39
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Bobby Deluxe posted:That's sort of the 'devil you know' conundrum though. You barely find out anything about his brother, other than he's away sorting out other union stuff, but the implication is if you got Evrart kicked out, his brother is popular enough to just step right in his shoes. Assuming that Evrart doesn't easily skirt whatever you can pull against him, I'm pretty sure Edgar won't be able to take his place, particularly given that Edgar was the one who dealt with the Deserter and talked him into killing their predecessor. That's a pretty big if, though. Staltran posted:I think Edgar's the only one with a lazy eye, Evrart doesn't have one. Other way around, Evrart has the lazy eye, which is quite visible in his portrait. Edgar doesn't have one, according to descriptions.
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Nov 21, 2023 18:46
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Oxxidation posted:Gaston taught them both as kids, so we do have evidence of Edgar’s existence Or more specifically we have evidence that Edgar existed.
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Nov 21, 2023 18:47
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Other way around, Evrart has the lazy eye, which is quite visible in his portrait. Edgar doesn't have one, according to descriptions. Really? I thought it was the other way around (and therefore the Evrart we meet is actually Edgar). Googling around it seems like I either misremembered, or read it somewhere that got it wrong and never checked.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:22
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GlyphGryph posted:Isn't taking actions that inconveniences her literally the entirety of what she does in this game? It's why she is in Martinaise at all. You can argue she is doing too little too late, but not that she's doing nothing. That's not an inconvenience, it's her job. She's there for work. And also she talks about how she likes Martinaise despite everything and is super nostalgic for a summer fling she had like 30 years ago. She's as safe as she can be on her boat and leaves at the first sign of serious trouble. Just because she's polite to the cops doesn't mean she's inconveniencing herself.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:23
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