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Maybe I'm just new to this forum but I've never seen anyone touch on the blatant orientalism present in the film Aliens. Maybe it's one of those things we just internalize and never bother to question but you'll never be able to unsee it.
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Nov 21, 2023 22:28
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Trent posted:Maybe I'm just new to this forum but I've never seen anyone touch on the blatant orientalism present in the film Aliens. Maybe it's one of those things we just internalize and never bother to question but you'll never be able to unsee it. I guess it’s not something I’ve considered, can you elaborate?
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Nov 21, 2023 22:41
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Ooh, I feel like the next 3-4 pages are going to be wild
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Nov 21, 2023 22:44
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Trent posted:Maybe I'm just new to this forum but I've never seen anyone touch on the blatant orientalism present in the film Aliens. Maybe it's one of those things we just internalize and never bother to question but you'll never be able to unsee it. I'm partly South Asian and have no clue what you're getting at, but, proceed
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Nov 21, 2023 22:56
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:I'm partly South Asian lol. Really, it's my fault for rocking the boat of fandoms, I won't bother. It doesn't take sherlock holmes to deduce what Aliens is an rather unsubtle allegory for.
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Nov 21, 2023 23:02
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Trent posted:lol. Oh you mean the Vietnam War? Yeah that’s very well-worn territory in the fandom (and this thread). I figured you meant something different.
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Nov 21, 2023 23:03
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Xenomrph posted:Oh you mean the Vietnam War? Yeah that’s very well-worn territory in the fandom (and this thread). Maybe something a little more specific but you're correct. SMG is most of the reason I made a SA account, have him and you ("forums poster Xenomrph" haha) covered this field already?
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Nov 21, 2023 23:12
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Trent posted:Maybe something a little more specific but you're correct. SMG is most of the reason I made a SA account, have him and you ("forums poster Xenomrph" haha) covered this field already? Quite a bit. It’s a very well-known reading of the movie that predates the internet haha And there’s more than just the two of us posting in this thread, this is a place where anyone can talk about Aliens (and Predator) stuff  Edit— on the topic of orientalism outside of the Vietnam War allegory, the first 3 movies have other elements as well since Weyland-Yutani is a British-Japanese corporation. One of my friends from an AvP forum is schooling me in real time on Facebook messenger as I write this edit because I’m not knowledgeable enough to speak intelligently on the topic because I’m a dumb American. Apparently Alien3 has Japanese kanji sprinkled throughout the prison that I never noticed. I’m mentally collating some stuff but I believe the recent Alien RPG goes into it a bit as well with the Three World Empire (a geopolitical entity formed by an alliance between Japan, the UK, and India). I can’t quite recall where China slots into the geopolitical landscape in the RPG, but they might be part of the Union of Progressive Peoples neo-communist bloc. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 23:20
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Trent posted:SMG is most of the reason I made a SA account, I’m sorry
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Nov 21, 2023 23:33
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FastestGunAlive posted:I’m sorry It's okay. Really, I'm a fanboy of older SMG from years ago, I'd ask him to sign my copy of Capital or something. I signed up hoping to get front row seats to some SMG vs Xenomrph action. Don't disappoint me, now, forum.
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Nov 21, 2023 23:51
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Xenomrph posted:I’m mentally collating some stuff but I believe the recent Alien RPG goes into it a bit as well with the Three World Empire (a geopolitical entity formed by an alliance between Japan, the UK, and India). I can’t quite recall where China slots into the geopolitical landscape in the RPG, but they might be part of the Union of Progressive Peoples neo-communist bloc. Stuff like this and a few of the recent novels/games I've gone through in the Aliens-verse makes the politics of the setting seem like a total madness rune
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Nov 21, 2023 23:53
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Trent posted:It's okay. Really, I'm a fanboy of older SMG from years ago, I'd ask him to sign my copy of Capital or something. I signed up hoping to get front row seats to some SMG vs Xenomrph action. Don't disappoint me, now, forum. Good grief...
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Nov 22, 2023 00:03
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Xenomrph posted:
This reminds me of how the themes in 20th century art reflect the political climate back then, but for some reason modern art seems to be revisiting 20th century political themes too. Maybe it's part of a larger trend of nostalgia culture I've been thinking alot about lately. edit: as for the insight on orientalism in the alien movies, I'd welcome your further thoughts since this does interest me, specifically racist themes in films and how western liberals interpret this art in general. Trent fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 00:11
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The Marines and the failure of their wunderwaffen are a very heavy handed allegory for the US experience in Vietnam and Cameron openly says as much. I think it's a stretch to try and say the titular Aliens are meant as a stand-in for the Vietnamese in all but the broadest of broad strokes: they chasten the overconfident Western military. You could probably  something to impute a cultural analogy onto the monster movie monsters. You can do almost anything with cultural critique and a big enough brain. But I don't think it's present in the text unless you torture it out.
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Nov 22, 2023 00:23
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Owlbear Camus posted:The Marines and the failure of their wunderwaffen are a very heavy handed allegory for the US experience in Vietnam and Cameron openly says as much. Monsters in fantasy-fiction in general (such as Lord of the Rings or others) obviously serve as stand-in for non-whites, Aliens is very on-the-nose about its Vietnam War theme, as well as how the protagonists paint the Aliens mirrors how white people paint Asian people in life. Your point about movie monsters is close to the truth, though.
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Nov 22, 2023 00:29
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Trent posted:It's okay. Really, I'm a fanboy of older SMG from years ago, I'd ask him to sign my copy of Capital or something. I signed up hoping to get front row seats to some SMG vs Xenomrph action. Don't disappoint me, now, forum. Not happening, it’s one of the reasons why this thread got shitcanned (and SMG got probated for the “forums poster Xenomrph” stuff, twice). I’m under the impression that this is a chill subforum for chill people to be cool about sci-fi stuff, not where people try to get ringside seats to see forums superstars throw down with inane circular derails that accomplish nothing. But if I’m mistaken, I’m sure Josh can correct me. Trent posted:Aliens is very on-the-nose about its Vietnam War theme, as well as how the protagonists paint the Aliens mirrors how white people paint Asian people in life. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 00:35
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Xenomrph posted:and if you think that’s how modern white people think of Asians then, uh The humanization of animals and the dehumanization of people is something I've been looking at recently. What is the 'uh' at the end there supposed to signify?
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Nov 22, 2023 00:42
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Xenomrph posted:
For example, your definition of 'people' as used in this sentence is interesting to me precisely because of who it excludes.
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Nov 22, 2023 00:44
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Maybe I’m just naive, but I don’t think modern white people view Asians as sub-human animals incapable of intelligent thought (which is the implication of Hudson’s line and his worldview) or that they’re so inherently dangerous that they need to be nuked “just to be sure”. As for American views during the Vietnam War itself, that’s probably a different matter. Trent posted:For example, your definition of 'people' as used in this sentence is interesting to me precisely because of who it excludes. Edit— noticing that the post you quoted did say “white people” so I’m not sure why you singled that out but whatevs 
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Nov 22, 2023 00:46
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I think SMG’s take on Aliens was more along the lines of the xenos being the proletariat uprising, or something like that.
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Nov 22, 2023 00:51
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MrMojok posted:I think SMG’s take on Aliens was more along the lines of the xenos being the proletariat uprising, or something like that. Yeah if I remember right he reframed the movie with the colonists being the working class literally “reborn” and rising up as a new collectivist entity seizing its labor for its own (non-corporatist) ends. Which is a pretty novel way to look at it.
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Nov 22, 2023 00:57
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Xenomrph posted:Maybe I’m just naive, but I don’t think modern white people view Asians as sub-human animals incapable of intelligent thought (which is the implication of Hudson’s line and his worldview) or that they’re so inherently dangerous that they need to be nuked “just to be sure”. Now this is a comment where responding with the word 'Uh' would actually be reasonable. But I've stayed too long.
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Nov 22, 2023 00:58
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Stay normal, thread.
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Nov 22, 2023 01:02
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josh04 posted:Stay normal, thread. What about hornyposting? I mean Aliens and Predators are pretty much non-stop penises and vaginas all the way down. I’m being facetious 
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Nov 22, 2023 01:14
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I don't think a single person has ever watched Aliens and thought of Vietnamese people while watching Xenomorphs. At the same time, rather than dismissing you entirely out of hand, I do think you're getting at something with it having some place in the canon of lionizing jingoistic depictions of marines. That said, on the harm spectrum I feel it's probably relatively low compared to media that much more overtly has racist depictions of various ethnicities. I'd also say something like Call of Duty video games are probably more actively harmful in terms of what they're promoting and the iconography of kill streaks, logos and points for participating in the military industrial complex So, I don't think you're getting at nothing, but you're being glib and dismissive in throwing out a fairly reductive reading of a movie that I don't think is actually as "blatant" as you say
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Nov 22, 2023 01:19
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I’d buy the argument of xenos as representative of the Vietnamese if the colonialists were still alive. Then you could explore the idea of a guerilla force hiding among a civilian population (“how do we know who has a chestburster”) and the ways by which an invading military brutalizes the civilians in an attempt to defeat the guerillas though sheer might. US violence toward civilians is pretty a significant part of studying the war in Vietnam and many other pieces of media (Platoon, Full Metal Jacket) highlight it. It’s lacking in Aliens.
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Nov 22, 2023 01:30
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:I don't think a single person has ever watched Aliens and thought of Vietnamese people while watching Xenomorphs. Even if this were true, I'm not sure how the point made corresponds to reality. It is an assertion and not an analysis. BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:That said, on the harm spectrum I feel it's probably relatively low compared to media that much more overtly has racist depictions of various ethnicities. BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:So, I don't think you're getting at nothing, but you're being glib and dismissive in throwing out a fairly reductive reading of a movie that I don't think is actually as "blatant" as you say
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Nov 22, 2023 02:09
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They made your argument into a pretty cool movie already called Starship Troopers Don't try and be SMG-light as a gimmick, you're making a number of odd assumptions about what I think
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Nov 22, 2023 02:22
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That Aliens: Fireteam Elite game is pretty dang cool. Threw $3.50 at it for some WY skins and stuff. Been rocking a technician, but I’m testing the waters on the lancer.
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Nov 22, 2023 05:08
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I'd love to try getting back into Fireteam Elite, it's a fantastic game when you're playing with actual people but for some reason I had a bitch of a time matchmaking, so it would always time out and put me with bots, which suck. I gave up after a while 
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Nov 22, 2023 05:23
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Mister Speaker posted:I'd love to try getting back into Fireteam Elite, it's a fantastic game when you're playing with actual people but for some reason I had a bitch of a time matchmaking, so it would always time out and put me with bots, which suck. I gave up after a while I’ve got it on PC, I’d probably be down to do some goon games.
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Nov 22, 2023 06:01
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Open Marriage Night posted:That Aliens: Fireteam Elite game is pretty dang cool. Threw $3.50 at it for some WY skins and stuff. Been rocking a technician, but I’m testing the waters on the lancer. Hope you enjoy your active participation in perpetuating orientalist dehumanization of foreign others, capitalist scum Trent posted:incredibly arrogant You first laughed off and are now talking down to an actual Asian person about their own perspectives on this subject, and indeed their very identity. Maybe for your next trick you can tell a Black person how they should feel about the N-word. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 06:45
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McSpanky posted:You first laughed off and are now talking down to an actual Asian person about their own perspectives on this subject, and indeed their very identity. Yeah their dismissive reaction to me bringing up being of South Asian descent was really weird in the context of trying to apparently have a discussion about Orientalism in film. I know who Edward Said is, I have my own perspective on films that do have Orientalist attitudes that is definitely not some ur-Truth but is informed by my experience and ethnicity I felt I was pretty fair to them in asking them to elaborate and acknowledging there was something to what they're getting at Then going after me apparently some uncritical apolitical defender of the fandom was also really weird. I've never brought it up on the forums because I don't actually at all think it makes my opinions any more valid but one of my undergrad majors was film studies including plenty of work looking at political critiques of films. Again, doesn't at all make my posts any more correct but it's not like I'm new to political readings of film It just seems like Trent has come in with a chip on their shoulder effectively admitting that they wanted SMG to Senpai-notice them and has come in with a not-entirely invalid but somewhat trite read of the film, and defensively assumed every other poster has some "keep your politics out of our franchise discussion" viewpoint. I don't get the sense that Trent actually cares about race in cinema at all, but thought bringing up the point would be some mind-blowing intellectual revelation Nonetheless, that's enough forums drama for one day
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Nov 22, 2023 07:10
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What a terrible Ferrinus alt account
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Nov 22, 2023 07:37
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FastestGunAlive posted:I’d buy the argument of xenos as representative of the Vietnamese if the colonialists were still alive. Then you could explore the idea of a guerilla force hiding among a civilian population (“how do we know who has a chestburster”) and the ways by which an invading military brutalizes the civilians in an attempt to defeat the guerillas though sheer might. US violence toward civilians is pretty a significant part of studying the war in Vietnam and many other pieces of media (Platoon, Full Metal Jacket) highlight it. It’s lacking in Aliens. Oh they are very much that, right down to the Marines being surprised they can operate technology and the use of tunnels to make covert approach and ambush the marines. The Xenomorphs in Aliens are absolutely Vietcong. I also think that callousness towards the value of civilian life from the US military-industrial complex is also a pretty big theme in the film if you look closely. But the whole moral of Aliens is that the Marines' racism and arrogance ends really badly for them. That's not orientalist at all. e2: I should clarify that I don't think they're literally Vietnamese people, rather the Aliens in Aliens represent the people on the other end of every colonial war the US fought in the 60/70's. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 08:25
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Open Marriage Night posted:That Aliens: Fireteam Elite game is pretty dang cool. Threw $3.50 at it for some WY skins and stuff. Been rocking a technician, but I’m testing the waters on the lancer. Sequel is possibly in the works Xenomrph posted:I’ve got it on PC, I’d probably be down to do some goon games. I’d be down
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Nov 22, 2023 11:15
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Heh, I don't know if any of you plebs in this thread are ready for this, but I've got some extremely innovative thoughts on rape and pregnancy-as-body-horror in the Aliens franchise 
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Nov 22, 2023 12:03
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H.R Coomer
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Nov 22, 2023 12:13
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I love the SMG character for reasons of humor, but I can’t imagine sliding into this thread like this person just did, citing SMG as an inspiration, and with this kind of loaded argument. One wonders whose rereg this is.
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Nov 22, 2023 12:40
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Dark Descent is also on sale. I have deep Steam Sales brain though so I am holding off to see if there is a deeper discount come christmas.
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Nov 22, 2023 19:18
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