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I guess it depends on your reasons for doing what you do in the first place. I'd rather go live in the woods than polish up the outputs of a machine that digests and spits out other people's art I might not have the luxury of standing on my principles though, I have a mortgage in one of the most expensive cities in the world and cost of living is hosed. All well and good to say adapt and overcome but that pretty much means adapt to a job that is worse than it used to be and overcome your disgust.
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Nov 20, 2023 21:56
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sigma 6 posted:Kaedim might be the exception but I haven't tried it. Wasn't Kaedim just using incredibly underpaid artists to churn out assets as fast as humanly possible and calling it 'AI'? quote:I'd rather go live in the woods than polish up the outputs of a machine that digests and spits out other people's art floofyscorp fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Nov 20, 2023 |
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Nov 20, 2023 22:18
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EoinCannon posted:I guess it depends on your reasons for doing what you do in the first place. Same. I can't afford not to take the work. Point is - I did not make the concept based on my own drawings, paintings, or photo reference, which I have done in the past. Instead, I use AI to generate concepts iteratively until the client was happy. Then I can move on to the 3D part faster. Which obviously still takes a lot of time to get right. You can also feed your own paintings or drawings in as a dataset if you are concerned about using other people's work. AI has changed how an image is iterated radically. It's a little like when photoshop became very common and people couldn't believe what was real and what wasn't when they were showed an image. People thought it was computer graphics "magic" and some were very upset about it. Just found multiple AI painting tools and so far it has been pretty fun. This Canvas beta is free so far and spits out panorama EXRs which can be used for skydomes and (at least in Maya) is already mapped properly by default. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/studio/canvas/ This is the other one, which looks far more advanced. Krea.ai https://www.krea.ai/ floofyscorp posted:Wasn't Kaedim just using incredibly underpaid artists to churn out assets as fast as humanly possible and calling it 'AI'? Not sure but it looks like Reddit says so. Haven't used it before but almost beta tested it. Results look clean though, compared to others I have seen. sigma 6 fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Nov 20, 2023 |
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Nov 20, 2023 22:54
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sigma 6 posted:Not sure but it looks like Reddit says so. Haven't used it before but almost beta tested it. Results look clean though, compared to others I have seen. Yes, they're clean because they're made by humans, not chewed up and spat out by an algorithm.
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Nov 20, 2023 23:34
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sigma 6 posted:
Results look clean compared to other abusive content mills you've seen? Cool, man. Nice AI pitch, by the way.
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Nov 21, 2023 00:01
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mutata posted:Results look clean compared to other abusive content mills you've seen? Cool, man. Nice AI pitch, by the way. I don't really care what your opinion of AI is. If you don't use the tool, someone else will. CG has historically had no room for luddites. Train your own AI on your own art if you feel that strongly but these kinds of reactions are like a vegan telling me not to eat meat at this point. Didn't know about Kaedim's bad business practices until now and frankly I wouldn't be surprised if similar companies popped up. Sadly.
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Nov 21, 2023 00:49
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sigma 6 posted:I don't really care what your opinion of AI is. If you don't use the tool, someone else will. CG has historically had no room for luddites. The point is that it's literally not AI. It's just sweatshops. Completely orthogonal to the AI question, this is a very straightforward "do you support paying people pennies to work very hard" kind of question. also re: luddites, the historical Luddites had legitimate concerns about how the industrial revolution was hurting people and exacerbating societal inequality. Calling people luddites when they have concerns about the harmful side-effects of technology is not the burn you think it is.
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Nov 21, 2023 00:52
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The point is that it's literally not AI. It's just sweatshops. Completely orthogonal to the AI question, this is a very straightforward "do you support paying people pennies to work very hard" kind of question. Not a burn but pretty apt. Again - I don't condone bad business practices but I don't think using technology which is becoming more and more readily available a bad business practice. You don't condemn a photographer for not being a better painter even if they are creating the same image. It's more about what the client wants. Also this kind argument just re enforces group think. AI = bad. *rolleyes* Ridiculous considering the pace at which things are moving. sigma 6 fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 01:02
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Lots of things are "good business practices" in that they look good on a balance sheet, but are not good for workers or society at large Things that are moving fast and seemingly inevitable are not by definition good
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Nov 21, 2023 01:12
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EoinCannon posted:Lots of things are "good business practices" in that they look good on a balance sheet, but are not good for workers or society at large Well Microsoft acquiring the OpenAI CEO and then the OpenAI staff threatening to quit if the board doesn't rehire him...has been interesting.
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Nov 21, 2023 01:44
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sigma 6 posted:Not a burn but pretty apt. Again - I don't condone bad business practices but I don't think using technology which is becoming more and more readily available a bad business practice. You don't condemn a photographer for not being a better painter even if they are creating the same image. It's more about what the client wants. Also this kind argument just re enforces group think. I mean okay you are talking about a product that literally can not function without being fed other people's work and is only capable of producing derivatives (very fancy ones sure) because it is incapable of replicating something it hasn't seen. And you are championing a product that is made to put a whole slew of people out of work so executives at the top can cut costs and make money at the cost of every loving thing else. But once you put those "luddites" out of work, there will be no novel material to feed into it and your content will just constantly feed into itself and continue to grow stagnant. All you've really done is sabotaged the careers of a bunch of folks who just wanted to make a modest living doing creative work. And all to just churn out a stream of meaningless "content" so a company can make more money and look good to shareholders. If you want a demonstration of what something like this looks like, look at what AI translation has done to the translating industry. Like really take a look at that. Both what happened to translators and the resulting massive drop in quality of accessible translations for books. It sucks for the people who make translations, the people who read translations, the original author, everyone. Everyone except the companies making money off of it of course. This isn't actually a new thing, it's just automation and we know the history of that. And this one has an additional fun flavor of being the perfect tool for deep fakes and other malicious use cases on top of that. And if you're going to defend it, then defend it but do it with an actual argument and not just "new thing is good because its new." JuniperCake fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 01:03
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JuniperCake posted:I mean okay you are talking about a product that literally can not function without being fed other people's work and is only capable of producing derivatives (very fancy ones sure) because it is incapable of replicating something it hasn't seen. And you are championing a product that is made to put a whole slew of people out of work so executives at the top can cut costs and make money at the cost of every loving thing else. But once you put those "luddites" out of work, there will be no novel material to feed into it and your content will just constantly feed into itself and continue to grow stagnant. All you've really done is sabotaged the careers of a bunch of folks who just wanted to make a modest living doing creative work. And all to just churn out a stream of meaningless "content" so a company can make more money and look good to shareholders. You don't hate the tool, you hate the user or the way it is implemented. People have been photobashing very well for years. Do some people hate photoshop? Probably. Most though recognize it as a powerful tool. Now that photoshop has AI in it, even more powerful. Is that a reason to hate a technological tool? Um... no. Also - new doesn't always mean good but certainly this has been a game changer for some and a disaster for others. A new kind of industrial revolution maybe (?) Since this has always been about automation and how it is applied. As for the deep fakes. This tech is now being used to facial replacement stuff vs. modeling and animating a 3d head, which is tedious by comparison. I am not saying everything being used with deepfake tech is good. Just pointing out you can't put the genie back in the bottle. sigma 6 fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 01:37
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Pshaw at all you scrubs using fancy apps and artificially flavoured intelligence. I do all my art by typing binary into an ascii file, like a real masochist.
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Nov 22, 2023 05:28
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sigma 6 posted:You don't hate the tool, you hate the user or the way it is implemented. Just gonna put this out there: it is valid to dislike a tool. In particular, two big options stand out: 1. You spent a great deal of time and effort on developing the skills that the tool (to a greater or lesser extent) replaces, and thus the tool harms your competitive advantage on the marketplace, threatening your livelihood. 2. You're only in the industry in the first place because it allows you to exercise the skills that the tool replaces. The remaining work is not of interest to you personally.
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Nov 22, 2023 05:43
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Just gonna put this out there: it is valid to dislike a tool. In particular, two big options stand out: You can dislike a tool all you want but that won't stop others from using it. Fortunately for some, and unfortunately for others, automation and capitalism go hand in hand. Famously, programmers often make more than artists who can't program because programmers can automate repetitive tasks whereas artists without programming skills end up repeating the same steps "by hand". This leads to many job postings asking artists to know Python, or some other programming language to get a technical art job. tango alpha delta posted:Pshaw at all you scrubs using fancy apps and artificially flavoured intelligence. I do all my art by typing binary into an ascii file, like a real masochist. lol
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Nov 22, 2023 12:16
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sigma 6 posted:You don't hate the tool, you hate the user or the way it is implemented. People have been photobashing very well for years. Do some people hate photoshop? Probably. Most though recognize it as a powerful tool. Now that photoshop has AI in it, even more powerful. Is that a reason to hate a technological tool? Um... no. Generative AI isn't the same as a regular tool though. Tools automate or assist a *process*. Generative AI utilises *output*. It relies on a human being having already done the work, then reuses and remixes it. And as a concept that isn't necessarily a problem, like in theory generative AI could be incredibly useful for spinning up quick concepts, producing variations on a theme, and all sorts of other useful starting points for someone to work from. The problem is that right now it is all being plagiarised with absolutely no permissions being sought or recompense given to the people whose work made it into a viable product, and the only defense companies are coming out with is "but that would be really expensive!". And that there is the key - generative AI as it currently exists can only survive through outright theft. It literally isn't commercially viable or useful without it, if they had to actually seek out and compensate everyone whose work goes into the data set then it would be significantly cheaper and easier to just hire an artist or writer. And there is no sign that this is going to change, probably not even in our lifetimes. AI is a nonsense fairytale that we haven't the faintest idea of how to actually make real. Computers are dumb machines that do exactly what they're programmed for. We've gotten pretty clever about finding ways to make them seem smarter than they are, but now that people are trying to apply them to artistic endeavours they're running into the issue that no amount of processing power will make them capable of doing what humans can do, because the underlying fundamentals of a computer is to robotically follow orders to the letter, they have no capacity to do otherwise, and we don't have the slightest idea how to make something that can actually learn in a way that mimics our own thought processes. And as such generative AI is basically toast as soon as the courts make a blanket ruling that they can't just steal anything they fancy, instead of people having to demand content removal individually.
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Nov 22, 2023 12:35
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Photobashing an image or using a bot to do the compositing for you? Did you think this wasn't inevitable? (re: Wonderstudio) Are you going to ban using photoshop because it uses AI or just the AI features of photoshop? ( ... Which Adobe says only draws from its Adobe stock library. ) As for legality: Yes - ChatGPT has been made illegal in a few countries. As far as I know no image generators have been made illegal however and what's more, "AI Images Aren’t Protected By Copyright Law According To U.S. Copyright Office". However, as the tech gets better, who is to tell what is generated by DALL E or some time in photoshop and / or Firefly? Or a combination of both?
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Nov 22, 2023 14:07
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Bxnfksjfirksuavsvxjvgkmf sbah jmf f sjajajc g fjwjqh.
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Nov 22, 2023 15:38
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mutata posted:Bxnfksjfirksuavsvxjvgkmf sbah jmf f sjajajc g fjwjqh. goddamnit y'all done released the kraken
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Nov 22, 2023 15:41
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Just having an AI make my posts now since it's just going to be the AI folks getting super defensive about AI art on repeat I figure I can automate my posting now.
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Nov 22, 2023 15:44
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sigma 6 posted:Are you going to ban using photoshop because it uses AI or just the AI features of photoshop? According to EA's legal department who I asked about this very thing the other day: yes. We've been issued strict guidelines for using the latest version and one of them is 'no generative AI tools'. They're still a huge grey area legally as much as ethically.
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Nov 22, 2023 16:17
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It's blatantly obvious at this point that sigma 6 isn't going to change their opinion, so can we just drop the topic? I wanna see people actually make poo poo in this thread, not have the same tedious argument I've already seen in a million other places. No need to give oxygen to it here.
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Nov 22, 2023 16:51
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sigma 6 posted:Photobashing an image or using a bot to do the compositing for you? Did you think this wasn't inevitable? (re: Wonderstudio) Artists that photobash also have the choice to, and should, get rights to the photos that they're using. Legal battles for AI images are ongoing, with some preliminary judgements, but as with all legal cases in the US, the first ruling is rarely the final ruling. It's fine to be looking at these kinds of tools with interest and intrigue, but you should also understand that many people are vehemently against them for entirely valid reasons.
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Nov 22, 2023 16:57
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:It's blatantly obvious at this point that sigma 6 isn't going to change their opinion, so can we just drop the topic? I wanna see people actually make poo poo in this thread, not have the same tedious argument I've already seen in a million other places. No need to give oxygen to it here. yeah there is very little actual work getting posted these days, this thread is a little sad compared to what it used to be. I wish i had more interesting work to post. In the interests of sharing more content, the talk i did at unreal fest is live, as of 3 hours ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6la2yieiCG0 It was my first time doing one so I decided that reading from a script would be better than rambling or potentially making a mistake, but them putting the prompter on a screen down by my feet made that a poo poo option. My part is just to give context to the development, it's short, but important to say why Jose and Alex had such a hard job ahead of them. Alex's section is where it gets really spicy, they did a lot of fantastic work pulling this off. cubicle gangster fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 19:35
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I took on too much freelance museum work to have much time to do personal projects and I can't post any of that stuff until the exhibitions open  At least modelling animals isn't far off what I'd be doing as personal projects anyway 
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Nov 22, 2023 21:32
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In the interest of contributing art, here's a mushroom man I made recently: 
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Nov 23, 2023 03:57
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Well, I'm officially out of VFX now, doing this instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbxAuTtK99o (And yes, the hours are just as bad and pay is even worse :p)
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Nov 23, 2023 04:35
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mutata posted:Bxnfksjfirksuavsvxjvgkmf sbah jmf f sjajajc g fjwjqh. Sorry you glitched out. Computers are just tools, after all. https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czl4VtEx0s5 floofyscorp: Is this the same company ?... "EAspouse" How did that go again? Oh yeah... Old news. I am sure EA has gotten better about their ethics since then. Some irony for you guys is that the client rejected the AI ref in favor of photo ref. Still ended up modeling the model from AI ref first though. *sigh* cubicle gangster posted:In the interests of sharing more content, the talk i did at unreal fest is live, as of 3 hours ago. That's really impressive. sigma 6 fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Nov 23, 2023 |
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Nov 23, 2023 08:10
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sigma 6 posted:floofyscorp: Is this the same company ?... "EAspouse" How did that go again? Oh yeah... Old news. EA spouse was almost twenty years ago, and that article you linked is eight years old. Crunch is still an industry wide problem and I've no doubt it still happens at some EA studios, but yes things are a lot better in that regard than they were. AI is not going to change that. As we've all seen, as we get tools that make content creation easier and faster, all that happens is we end up having to make more and more of it. In your shiny new algorithmic future, instead of painting one portrait from scratch a day, an artist will be able to generate ten and just spend the day fixing wonk-eye and cthulhu-fingers instead! What fun.
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Nov 23, 2023 11:22
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Edit: Nevermind, lol, forget it. Go nuts with AI and keep getting annoyed when people hate it, I guess.
mutata fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Nov 23, 2023 |
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Nov 23, 2023 16:06
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:It's blatantly obvious at this point that sigma 6 isn't going to change their opinion, so can we just drop the topic? I wanna see people actually make poo poo in this thread, not have the same tedious argument I've already seen in a million other places. No need to give oxygen to it here.
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Nov 23, 2023 20:19
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Pablo Dobarro, the 3D artist that helped dramatically improve Blender's sculpting tools a few years ago, has announced Uniform, a new sculpting program that looks sick as hell. Modularity is a major focus. https://twitter.com/sparseal/status/1725506612440264768 https://twitter.com/sparseal/status/1726979898273853939 They just opened up for the initial public beta which, sadly for me, is iPad only. It seems a Mac build is also in the future, and while they're not committing to Windows/Android yet they also haven't outright denied the future possibility. https://twitter.com/sparseal/status/1727741963254800818
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Nov 24, 2023 07:23
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Seems like we are going back to specific programs after the "do everything" tools like Blender and Max. First Plasticity and now this. I am curious though, Plasticity is pretty nice.
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Nov 27, 2023 08:33
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I don't suppose there's any C4D knowers in the thread who can point me in the right direction for 1 little thing? I'm thinking of making a bit of wall art for my entryway where I 3D print a decent bit of the area around my new apartment, and did a test based on OSM maps, which gave a super clean and minimalist look (Though building heights were fudged, and only extruded 2d shapes, and terrain rather poor.) (50% scale, 12x12 cm test print, of a 600x600m chunk. I'm thinking of printing a couple tiles to join together and make a 1x1 or possibly 1.5x2m piece)  (Long live the 'slapped some models into a 3d program and rendered some ambient lighting' aesthetic. It's really neat how it catches the light.) Now, since the Google Earth 3d tiles are available through the api nowadays, I figured I'd try printing that too, to compare. (clean with only buildings vs messier with vegetation and more detailed environments.) But the problem is that the 3D tiles are veeeeerrryyyy poorly suited to being printed. They're thin shells with seams/borders that jut inwards every ~10x10x10m, glaring+obvious seams, and the geometry doesn't lend itself well to being extruded or thickened. (Example image here) I solved that in C4D with a Volume Mesh -> Volume Builder voxellization which gave a really nice result... but I still need to fill 'em up and get something solid, now that I atleast have a watertight surface.   Now that the context is out of the way: Is there a way I can just like, grab the bounds of the object, make a cube the same size as it, and 'fill it up' from the bottom, now that I have a watertight mesh? I could add models to the volume mesh steps, but I'd need to get a perfect-ish seal around a border with very complex geometry to do so (And repeat said manual job probably a dozen+ times.). Any tips? I essentially just need a flat bottom, sides, and to fill it in so that it's a solid object. A perfect top-down shrinkwrap would essentially do the trick.
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Nov 27, 2023 16:06
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I don't know C4D, but the approach I would use for that in Rhino is Trim the object to a perfect square Select the outer naked edge loop Extrude edges downwards Select this ragged lower set of vertices SetPt all vertex Z coordinates to the same value (Alternately: trim off bottom with plane) Cap open bottom.
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Nov 27, 2023 17:08
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Yeah, that honestly seems like the best option. I'll see if I can't remesh the entire area I'm interested in, in one go, since then I can be pretty sloppy with the edge slice. Since if I did that per 'tile' I'd get some seams. Way too easy to see yourself blind looking for complex solutions to simple problems, sometimes. Thanks.
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Nov 27, 2023 18:41
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I use C4D and Sage's method is likely how'd I'd do it.
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Nov 27, 2023 20:40
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You could try something like creating a solid shallow box of the right dimensions, project the detail from your plane on to the top face of the box, voxelise to get more polys in the vertical areas, then project again. I'm thinking in zbrush but I know it's doable in Max and most likely is in c4d
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Nov 27, 2023 21:05
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Here's how I'd do it in under 2 minutes in C4D. Sorry for the crappy audio... recording in my office and only have a webcam. https://www.loom.com/share/f99e9ab7299a4c9fa243f412ea3ec602?sid=563218e7-4fb6-432a-a735-bd148220a9a8 BonoMan fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 22:19
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yep, that's the same technique i would use. neat trick to scale the Z values of the vertices all to zero to flatten them out. i would have used the tool in Rhino that lets you set the x/y/z coordinates of a set of entities en masse -- select vertices, setpt, z, 0, enter.
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Nov 27, 2023 22:31
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