(Thread IKs:
ZShakespeare)
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Slotducks posted:would you rather it be run by Galen Weston; someone without the thin veil of accountability of an election danging over their head? In Alberta it's possible to open a grocery or liquor store without Galen Weston involved at all! I have a number of small private grocers and liquor stores near me.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:26
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drat sounds nice that you don't have galen bell and rogers completely owning everything
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Nov 22, 2023 21:30
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Pvt. Parts posted:You are getting too hung up on the LCBO/LLBO distinction here, though to be fair I did say "one board". Between the two of them, as government entities, they hold tremendous sway over how alcohol is dispensed to Ontarians, can we agree on that? That's all my argument requires. I'm sorry, I'll stop trying to hold you to the literal text of your argument, or any kind of connection to observable reality. I understand that your points are more "vibe based" and are intended to be allegorical, like all spiritual beliefs. TheCenturion posted:Well, it wasn't good enough for our country, or we wouldn't have replaced it in the 80s. You can buy a bottle of Malibu rum from any bar or restaurant in Ontario willing to sell you a bottle of Malibu rum. Admittedly, not may will because they will make more selling that same bottle by the shot, or they'll have an equivalent margin on the bottle sale, but they are allowed to sell you one if they have it. Like, the bar next door kept their lights on throughout the pandemic (post off-license sales reform) by selling their bottle inventory of spirits, as bottles, to take away. They still sell beer to go, but they don't bother with the liquor now, for the aforementioned margin reasons. Although, in a pinch, they will sell you one for far more than you really want to pay. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 21:34
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Randalor posted:I wasn't going to quote or respond to any of Pvt Parts' posts, but this is just... Pvt. Parts, PLEASE explain to me how you think purchasing and consuming alcohol works. Are you confusing liquor marts with bars? Do you think you have to drink the alcohol as soon as you purchase it? You understand that you can buy the alcohol ahead of time and take it home, right? You answered your own question. Sometimes your booze needs/wants can't be anticipated. And again by "allow" I mean, "to let happen without obstruction", not "to permit". If it's next to impossible to get the booze or liquor I want to drink from where I want past 9pm tonight here in Toronto (lol), then yes I have been effectively restricted access to alcohol. This is not complicated. edit: infernal machines posted:I'm sorry, I'll stop trying to hold you to the literal text of your argument, or any kind of connection to observable reality. I understand that your points are more "vibe based" and are intended to be allegorical, like all spiritual beliefs. Which particular gov agency or collection of gov agencies are regulating the availability of alcohol was not important in that context. I'm not sure what your clarification has added to the discussion? Like yes, there are weird exceptions to the government control of alcohol sales (Beer Store for example is privately owned and has been more or less grandfathered in or something?), but the mass market is de-facto controlled. Serotoning fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 21:38
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Randalor posted:The only time I can think of when a liquor mart being closed would directly impact your ability to drink would be in the event that a party ran out of alcohol, but in that event, that's probably a good indicator that people should stop drinking for the night regardless. Most of the liquor marts in my city close at 10pm barring Sunday. And again, you can buy a sealed bottle of liquor, wine, or beer from a licensed bar or restaurant in Ontario between 9am and 11pm, per AGCO rules. If you also have a problem with the AGCO setting serving hours, that's fair, but entirely unrelated to the LCBO. I can, for example, buy a 4-pack of one of several craft beer brands from the hamburger shop down the street, and then take it to go with my hamburger. This is legal, right now, in Ontario. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 21:42
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do you truly believe if the market was showing that need that LCBO would be opposed to servicing that need? do you truly believe that the private market would also service that need?
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Nov 22, 2023 21:42
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I think Galen Weston has a great track record with yeast-based products.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:44
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hear me out private ran-out-of-alcohol-after-hours comprehensive insurance plans
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Nov 22, 2023 21:46
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Pvt. Parts posted:This can easily be flipped to show that it holds no real weight. Why do you consider 300ish options to be arbitrarily enough, and why should one central board decide what people can and cannot drink? Please read my post more closely, this is already addressed. Slotducks posted:do you truly believe if the market was showing that need that LCBO would be opposed to servicing that need? It's actually very obvious that free-market liquor stores would be open 24 hours, as can be evidenced by the fact that all other stores, like Loblaws and Best Buy, are open 24 hours. Also, I'm a pathetic child who can't plan more than about 15 minutes into the future, and this service is FAR more important than poor people ever being able to access medical care.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:46
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Muscle Tracer posted:It's actually very obvious that free-market liquor stores would be open 24 hours, as can be evidenced by the fact that all other stores, like Loblaws and Best Buy, are open 24 hours. Pvt. Parts conflated the AGCO with the LCBO, because facts are largely irrelevant to their point, but they are not in any sense the same organization. They sell beer at the 24-hour Metro a few blocks from me, and wouldn't you know it, between 11pm and 9am, you can't buy it.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:49
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Slotducks posted:do you truly believe that the private market would also service that need? Why wouldn't it? The business owners just don't want any more sales past 9? Muscle Tracer posted:Please read my post more closely, this is already addressed. How so?
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Nov 22, 2023 21:50
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infernal machines posted:You can buy a bottle of Malibu rum from any bar or restaurant in Ontario willing to sell you a bottle of Malibu rum. Admittedly, not may will because they will make more selling that same bottle by the shot, or they'll have an equivalent margin on the bottle sale, but they are allowed to sell you one if they have it. Right, so, they're legally allowed to, but they likely won't, or if they do, you'll be paying with their full upcharge margin. Lets say 8 bucks a shot. A standard shot is 44ml. A 750ml bottle is about 17 shots at that point. $136 a bottle. Same bottle is just under $30 at the LCBO. So, I can buy during LCBO business hours, or I can ask to buy at a bar/restaurant, which will probably say no for various reasons, including liquor license obligations, but if they do, they're likely to sell it to me at literally four times the cost.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:51
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TheCenturion posted:So, I can buy during LCBO business hours, or I can ask to buy at a bar/restaurant, which will probably say no for various reasons, including liquor license obligations, but if they do, they're likely to sell it to me at literally four times the cost. The point is, their liquor license obligations don't preclude them from selling it to you. Economic considerations may, though. This is actually the market at work!
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Nov 22, 2023 21:52
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Pvt. Parts posted:Why wouldn't it? The business owners just don't want any more sales past 9? my point is that while your needs aren't catered to (insert image of a sad muffin here), there likely isn't a business logic that supports being open for those extra extended hours. do you have any real world experience? do you know what retail is like?
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Nov 22, 2023 21:54
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Slotducks posted:do you truly believe if the market was showing that need that LCBO would be opposed to servicing that need? Yes. When private liquor stores were allowed in Alberta the number of stores increased, the hours were extended, and selection improved. It seems like there was a demand the ALCB was not servicing. Do you truly believe customers would not like a liquor store open longer hours or on holidays? Now you can argue whether or not those needs matter, or are important enough to justify things one way or the other, but it's silly to pretend the government run store is a perfect unimpeachable model.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:54
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DrBox posted:In Alberta it's possible to open a grocery or liquor store without Galen Weston involved at all! I have a number of small private grocers and liquor stores near me. The Albertan brain everyone.  What a loving dumb province. I DEMAND BEER ON CHRISTMAS DAY! I SWEAR TO GOD! IT'S THE ALBERTAN WAY!
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Nov 22, 2023 21:56
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Slotducks posted:my point is that while your needs aren't catered to (insert image of a sad muffin here), there likely isn't a business logic that supports being open for those extra extended hours. Weirdly, for some time in the early 2000s we had LCBO locations with hours as late as 11pm. At some point around, 2003 to 2004 they seem to have stopped and largely standardized their hours, but it was a thing. I don't know what the justification was for the change, but I'd be curious to find out.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:56
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Slotducks posted:my point is that while your needs aren't catered to (insert image of a sad muffin here), there likely isn't a business logic that supports being open for those extra extended hours. Liquor is a liquid in a bottle. If the convenience store will sell me milk or Monster at 2am, they will sell me booze at 2am.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:57
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infernal machines posted:Weirdly, for some time in the early 2000s we had LCBO locations with hours as late as 11pm. At some point around, 2003 to 2004 they seem to have stopped and largely standardized their hours, but it was a thing. I don't know what the justification was for the change, but I'd be curious to find out. The union likely had something to do with it
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Nov 22, 2023 21:57
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Pvt. Parts posted:Liquor is a liquid in a bottle. If the convenience store will sell me milk or Monster at 2am, they will sell me booze at 2am. buddy if liquor was discovered today it'd be outlawed so loving fast with all it's downsides. It needs more control on it than your Monsters and Milk
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Nov 22, 2023 21:58
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Pvt. Parts posted:You answered your own question. Sometimes your booze needs/wants can't be anticipated. And again by "allow" I mean, "to let happen without obstruction", not "to permit". If it's next to impossible to get the booze or liquor I want to drink from where I want past 9pm tonight here in Toronto (lol), then yes I have been effectively restricted access to alcohol. This is not complicated. Booze is never a need, and in the event that you are in a situation where you NEED alcohol, you should either go to a hospital ASAP or seek out a help group to help with your addiction. Don't blame the government for your lack of foresight or lack of planning. Edit: wait... holy poo poo... Pvt Parts, honest question, are you an alcoholic? I'm not sure if this will be of much help, I'm not in the Toronto area, but this looks like the contact info for Alcoholics Annonynous Toronto: https://211central.ca/record/72883886/ If you are suffering from alcohol addiction, don't be afraid to reach out and get help. Randalor fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 22:00
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Spicy.
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Nov 22, 2023 22:00
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Vintersorg posted:The Albertan brain everyone. Not my argument but I'm glad the only argument against privatizing liquor stores is now "Alberta dumb". Cool.
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Nov 22, 2023 22:03
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Pvt. Parts posted:How so? The post is only three sentences long, and one of them is entirely an answer to your question. If you reread each one carefully, I'm sure you'll be able to identify it. Pvt. Parts posted:Why wouldn't it? The business owners just don't want any more sales past 9? As you would've learned on the second day of Econ 101 if you'd stuck with it, business actually don't JUST make revenue, but ALSO have costs, such as labor. If the potential sales are lower (or just not much higher) than the cost of paying staff to continue operating the business, then it's not worth it to stay open. And, as most functioning adults have already made their bulk liquor purchases by then...
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Nov 22, 2023 22:04
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TheCenturion posted:Right, so, they're legally allowed to, but they likely won't, or if they do, you'll be paying with their full upcharge margin. Lets say 8 bucks a shot. Pvt. Parts posted:Why wouldn't it? The business owners just don't want any more sales past 9? So, I'm just going to state this clearly and upfront, since neither of you guys seem to understand what the actual law is surrounding retail sale of alcohol in Ontario: You can buy liquor from retail locations between the hours of 9:00 AM - 11:00 PM in the province of Ontario. The regulations on this are controlled by the AGCO (The Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario). The LCBO (Or Liquor Control Board of Ontario) manages the distribution of alcohol in the province of Ontario. The LCBO has been authorizing private companies like supermarkets to distribute alcohol for 8 years and for almost a century before that has licensed select private enterprises like The Beer Store and select Wine Shops and distilleries to operate. If you got rid of the LCBO and replaced it with only private establishments, those establishments would still only be allowed to sell alcohol between the hours of 9:00 AM - 11:00 PM because the LCBO doesn't control the hours it's legal to sell alcohol at retail locations.
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Nov 22, 2023 22:06
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Frankly I’m upset my 7-11 won’t sell me crystal meth
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Nov 22, 2023 22:06
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it's a loving crime that instacart won't let me put any NoName™ Fentanyl in my cart 
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Nov 22, 2023 22:08
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Will this also stop teenagers and people without smart serve (or whatever proper training is needed in this case) from working at a convenience store? I know that only certain lines take beer sales at groceries and can only be manned by specific workers. So my midnight job at a 7-11 as a teenager would then be impossible. Also having worked that and the amount of stolen Listerine l'm sure convenience store workers are excited for dealing with even more openly abrasive drunk people. Especially if there is only one person manning the store!
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Nov 22, 2023 22:09
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Syfe posted:Will this also stop teenagers and people without smart serve (or whatever proper training is needed in this case) from working at a convenience store? stop you're infringing on my right to not have planned my consumer purchases like an adult
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Nov 22, 2023 22:10
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DrBox posted:Not my argument but I'm glad the only argument against privatizing liquor stores is now "Alberta dumb". Cool. You said "Do you truly believe customers would not like a liquor store open longer hours or on holidays?" Christmas Day is a holiday.
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Nov 22, 2023 22:11
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Slotducks posted:buddy if liquor was discovered today it'd be outlawed so loving fast with all it's downsides. It needs more control on it than your Monsters and Milk At least you are arguing from some kind of principle now instead of just pulling "why would convenience store owners sell beer late??" out of your rear end. DrBox posted:Not my argument but I'm glad the only argument against privatizing liquor stores is now "Alberta dumb". Cool. This is what happens when they run out of steam, personal attacks. Classic. Randalor posted:Booze is never a need, and in the event that you are in a situation where you NEED alcohol, you should either go to a hospital ASAP or seek out a help group to help with your addiction. Don't blame the government for your lack of foresight or lack of planning. Lol, nice try. You "need" alcohol to have a few drinks with friends. You don't need to read into it past that for argumentative effect. I can get on board with alcohol being a substance worthy of special considerations. Drinking and driving, for instance, is an obvious violation of other people's safety. But like anything it's a continuum and we have gone too far to the one end IMO.
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Nov 22, 2023 22:12
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Alberta's way of handling (everything) liquor is absolutely subpar but i love that I can get liquor almost right up until 2am one way or another and what some of you are describing is truly tragic to me civilized countries keep bars open and liquor available until sunrise
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Nov 22, 2023 22:13
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KingKalamari posted:So, I'm just going to state this clearly and upfront, since neither of you guys seem to understand what the actual law is surrounding retail sale of alcohol in Ontario: You can buy liquor from retail locations between the hours of 9:00 AM - 11:00 PM in the province of Ontario. The regulations on this are controlled by the AGCO (The Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario). The LCBO (Or Liquor Control Board of Ontario) manages the distribution of alcohol in the province of Ontario. The LCBO has been authorizing private companies like supermarkets to distribute alcohol for 8 years and for almost a century before that has licensed select private enterprises like The Beer Store and select Wine Shops and distilleries to operate. If you got rid of the LCBO and replaced it with only private establishments, those establishments would still only be allowed to sell alcohol between the hours of 9:00 AM - 11:00 PM because the LCBO doesn't control the hours it's legal to sell alcohol at retail locations. I think if this is repeated three or four more times it will still be ignored because the people making the arguments don't care to understand which government entity is responsible for the thing they are complaining about, as long as it is a government entity, and they have a complaint.
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Nov 22, 2023 22:14
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Rockstar Massacre posted:
Too bad we're not one...
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Nov 22, 2023 22:14
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Syfe posted:Will this also stop teenagers and people without smart serve (or whatever proper training is needed in this case) from working at a convenience store? So cigarette sales currently disqualify minors from working there? Vintersorg posted:The Albertan brain everyone. Vintersorg posted:You said "Do you truly believe customers would not like a liquor store open longer hours or on holidays?" So you think these two quotes are the same thing? Don't be an rear end.
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Nov 22, 2023 22:14
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Rockstar Massacre posted:civilized countries keep bars open and liquor available until sunrise Do you really mean to imply that England is a civilized country?
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Nov 22, 2023 22:16
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Muscle Tracer posted:The post is only three sentences long, and one of them is entirely an answer to your question. If you reread each one carefully, I'm sure you'll be able to identify it. Oh I get it, you are trying to answer my rhetorical question. I think your "I can have a new drink every night for almost a year, that's enough choice!" is arbitrary (because it is) and I'm not actually interested in why you think that.
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Nov 22, 2023 22:17
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Slotducks posted:buddy if liquor was discovered today it'd be outlawed so loving fast with all it's downsides. It needs more control on it than your Monsters and Milk Energy drinks are garbage too and I will fight* to regulate them. Milk is also murder (indirectly). *vote
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Nov 22, 2023 22:17
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DrBox posted:So cigarette sales currently disqualify minors from working there? No, but there are reasons why dealing with alcohol requires training. You can't just sell it to somebody who is already drunk and a danger to themselves and others. The immediacy of the danger is the difference between alcohol and cigarettes. You're not likely to kill somebody else/ yourself within minutes of purchasing cigarettes. (Though admittedly over a heavy duration you would definitely damage somebody else/yourself irreparably) Syfe fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 22:18
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Pvt. Parts posted:Lol, nice try. You "need" alcohol to have a few drinks with friends. You don't need to read into it past that for argumentative effect. No, you really don't. There are other things that you can drink other than alcohol to have a good time with friends, and some of them are far healthier than alcohol! Mocktails, soda, coffee, tea... at no point do you NEED alcohol. If you NEED alcohol to have a good time with your friends, it either sounds like you need better friends, or you have a crippling addiction to alcohol. Don't be afraid to get help. Here's the contact info again for you: https://211central.ca/record/72883886/ But seriously, can anyone confirm if that is the Toronto information for Alcoholics Annonymous? I don't want to be giving out the wrong information.
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Nov 22, 2023 22:18
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