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Google Jeb Bush posted:you know, I was thinking earlier that it might be time for my intermittent "I'm not sure what you think the DNC is, but it's not" post Yeah a lot of leftist conspiracies like the primary thing or the rotating villain nonsense assumes way more power and organization than the DNC has by a huge factor. It's kinda like how right wingers think LGBTQIA people are all in on some nonsense conspiracy to make all kids gay or whatever, they are just not that unified or organized to pull that off on a national scale.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 02:45 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 00:23 |
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socialsecurity posted:Yeah a lot of leftist conspiracies like the primary thing or the rotating villain nonsense assumes way more power and organization than the DNC has by a huge factor. It's kinda like how right wingers think LGBTQIA people are all in on some nonsense conspiracy to make all kids gay or whatever, they are just not that unified or organized to pull that off on a national scale. yeah, the rotating villian poo poo has always been extreamly dumb.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 02:59 |
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Well the right wing thinks that of the democrats because the GOP was coordinating in that way for so long via Roger Ailes’ talking points (and it’s broken down only partially)
Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Nov 23, 2023 |
# ? Nov 23, 2023 03:02 |
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Google Jeb Bush posted:I have no idea why you're phrasing it that way, or even really asking the question. The frontrunner by a trillion miles is Joe Biden unless he is ailing or dead, and possibly then. To be clear, I'm asking the question and phrasing it that way because the incumbent in this case seems so ill-suited to the monumental task at hand that his candidacy simply cannot be a foregone conclusion. If the DNC is really set on running him then y'all need to try and talk them out of it and start looking for alternatives as a matter of urgency. Edgar Allen Ho posted:the majority of dem primary voters wanted and voted for a centrist and centrist voltron would have all thrown in for whichever part of voltron seemed to be in the lead, which was almost certainly going to be the previous, beloved centrist president's vp Fair enough, that's the closest this argument has come to making sense for me, so thanks. I think there's still room for at least a little fuckery in the equation, but happy to leave that one there and focus on the present. e - socialsecurity posted:Yeah a lot of leftist conspiracies like the primary thing or the rotating villain nonsense assumes way more power and organization than the DNC has by a huge factor. It's kinda like how right wingers think LGBTQIA people are all in on some nonsense conspiracy to make all kids gay or whatever, they are just not that unified or organized to pull that off on a national scale. ... unless people make ridiculous analogies like this of course
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 03:02 |
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who the gently caress gave you a stonetoss pfp. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 03:08 |
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Google Jeb Bush posted:relatedly, I am completely baffled by the idea of someone who has been in a room with three or more leftists simultaneously who goes "ah yes, this other organization is clearly a hive mind working in perfect lockstep". buddy, half the local democratic party orgs have knife fights to the death about where to purchase donuts for the meeting If someone believes that their views are shared by most of the US population and supported by the silent majority, then the total failure of those views to get electoral traction needs to have an explanation that isn't just "not all that many people like or agree with your views". That's just as true for leftists as it is for right-wingers. It's easier to blame "centrist Voltron" and Iowa coin flips than it is to honestly confront the fact that Bernie rarely polled above 33%, because if we start admitting that our guy just didn't get enough votes, we have to face the idea that maybe our politics just aren't overwhelmingly popular after all. And I've met plenty of leftists who weren't quite willing to accept that.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 03:12 |
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The DNC does not decide who to run. Their main powers consist of setting overarching primary rules in conjunction with the state parties, controlling distribution of national-level funds in the general election (and some other miscellaneous circumstances), and establishing some amount of federal-level Democratic messaging and strategic recommendations in between conventions. Insofar as the DNC has any control over at all over who runs for president (not much), the causality runs the other direction: DNC members are selected by their state parties because they are generally well liked or have a strong track record, or in some cases because they put in an outstanding performance speaking and/or schmoozing at the state convention. They don't have power to sway their states because they're on the DNC, they're on the DNC because the people who are engaged in state Democratic politics and activism like them. Anyone on these forums could, without a great deal of difficulty unless they're in a weird machine district, get in on the ground floor right now for selecting the people who select the next DNC members, by getting involved in their local/district Democratic party and upcoming local/district convention. Picking out a backup or alternative to Biden is not a top-down thing from the shadowy conspiracy or centralized UK-esque party leadership of the DNC. It's not Bucky Fullminster posted:If the DNC is really set on running him . That is not how it works.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 03:14 |
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in 2020 i got to cast my vote for my state's DNC members. because I was a state delegate (which was easier in 2020 because it was a remote convention). we deposed a couple of Vile Hated Centrists and moved the needle in the overall composition of the DNC. anyone who is really mad about the DNC and/or thinks they are a shadowy conspiracy needs to get involved. it's not that goddamn hard. if you don't have the money to go to the state convention and can't readily raise it or split the cost with people, or if your district has a lot of people who want to be delegates, you can still vote for the district delegates to the state convention you want. the number of votes to select one probably is not large. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Nov 23, 2023 |
# ? Nov 23, 2023 03:17 |
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cool, well however it works, can you guys somehow try and make sure that there is a decent name on the next ballot please.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 03:19 |
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also rhode island goons really have no excuse, it takes fifteen minutes to walk across the state, you can stroll down to the RI state democratic convention with no trouble at allBucky Fullminster posted:cool, well however it works, can you guys somehow try and make sure that there is a decent name on the next ballot please. like i said earlier, I'm gonna campaign and vote for the least doomed leftist/progressive candidate in the primary, because that's how we select candidates i regret to inform you they will have zero chance at all against an incumbent president who wants to keep the job, but if Biden decides he's too ill or dead to take the nom, it'll become very important to have someone better than Harris maybe in contention e: also national convention delegates get to vote their conscience if the primary winner is dead and the convention decides that him being dead is sufficient reason to remove him from contention, so that's another reason to show up to your drat local conventions and get good delegates in place Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Nov 23, 2023 |
# ? Nov 23, 2023 03:23 |
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Speaking of the Democratic primary, What does the Kennedy name mean now? RFK Jr., the fourth Kennedy to run for president, is clashing with myth and history — and his own family quote:CORRECTION quote:[...] quote:“I have a great relationship with my family,” said RFK Jr., standing in the green room after taking hundreds of selfies with the adoring crowd at Vibe. The article probably overstates and mischaracterizes the roorts of Kennedy Jr.'s belief in and endorsement of conspiracy theories; he likely gravitated toward them because, as a plaintiff's attorney, it could pay.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 05:10 |
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Google Jeb Bush posted:but if Biden decides he's too ill or dead to take the nom, He saw what happened when RBG held on to the job for too long, instead of passing the baton to keep it alive, right? Is anyone in his circle trying to convince him to step aside? Can the public?
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 05:45 |
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Bucky Fullminster posted:He saw what happened when RBG held on to the job for too long, instead of passing the baton to keep it alive, right? Those positions aren’t even a little bit analogous.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 05:51 |
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Bucky Fullminster posted:He saw what happened when RBG held on to the job for too long, instead of passing the baton to keep it alive, right? If he dies a Republican does not get to pick his successor.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 05:52 |
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If he resigns or dies, Kamala Harris takes over and that's the ball game right there.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 05:55 |
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Xiahou Dun posted:Those positions aren’t even a little bit analogous. Bodyholes posted:If he dies a Republican does not get to pick his successor. By refusing to let someone else step in, he is effectively letting republicans have more power than they otherwise would. But yeah, it's orders of magnitude worse.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 06:05 |
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Bucky Fullminster posted:By refusing to let someone else step in, he is effectively letting republicans have more power than they otherwise would. Kalit fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Nov 23, 2023 |
# ? Nov 23, 2023 06:07 |
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Yeah it's Hillary's turn, pack it up Joe.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 06:08 |
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Bucky Fullminster posted:By refusing to let someone else step in, he is effectively letting republicans have more power than they otherwise would. Stamping your feet even harder is not, in fact, evidence.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 06:22 |
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Kalit posted:Show your proof of this statement. We can't prove something in the future, but it's based on the fact that I don't think he will win. And the GOP will get more than just a supreme court seat as a result.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 06:23 |
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Bucky Fullminster posted:We can't prove something in the future, but it's based on the fact that I don't think he will win. And the GOP will get more than just a supreme court seat as a result. That’s not how that works.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 06:25 |
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In the silly theoretical that Biden did step down/not run again he would be tarnished as a loser from now until Nov 4th. The press would hound him, "Why aren't you running if you think you did a good job??", "Don't you think you'd beat him in another election??" "Are you afraid of Trump??" It would be terrible optics and do far more harm to Democrats electoral chances, spinning a successful president that can run on a record of stability and good results into an albatross.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 06:25 |
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Pleasant Friend posted:"Why aren't you running if you think you did a good job??" Biden: "I'm a patriot first and foremost, I've served my country to the best of my ability, and now take great pride in passing the baton to this outstanding candidate to lead us in the next chapter of our history" World: "phew" Xiahou Dun posted:Stamping your feet even harder is not, in fact, evidence. yes I was just clarifying the analogy Xiahou Dun posted:That’s not how that works. I'll bet on it if you like.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 06:47 |
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Biden: "I'm a patriot first and foremost, I've served my country to the best of my ability, and now take great pride in passing the baton to this outstanding candidate to lead us in the next chapter of our history" As someone who has studied the rightwing-infosphere and should have a good understanding of how persistent narratives spread through media you should know that is not how that would be accepted. It would be permission for Fox news and worse calling Biden an unpopular loser and a coward, giving them ammunition to call the last 4 years a failure and help build up Trump as the big man who defeated Biden without even an election. If you want Biden to not be the nominee then cross your fingers that he has a heart attack because that is the only way that is happening without doing massive damage to the Democrats and handing Trump the Whitehouse.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 07:23 |
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The current President stepping down/not running for re-election didn't work for Democrats in 1968 and it sure as gently caress isn't going to work today.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 07:24 |
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Biden: "I'm a patriot first and foremost, I've served my country to the best of my ability, and now take great pride in passing the baton to this outstanding candidate to lead us in the next chapter of our history" Is there an actual candidate where this would happen? To be clear, I don't mean "A candidate you think would be better than Biden" or "A candidate that the public could be coached into liking better than Biden once he is clearly out and their campaign is fully underway." Because here in the right now we're seeing a public that grumbles about how old Biden is but likes literally every polled replacement less than him, and in this scenario that's where we are when Biden tosses the baton on his way out the window.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 07:25 |
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Bucky Fullminster posted:By refusing to let someone else step in, he is effectively letting republicans have more power than they otherwise would. If any of the losers who jobbed to him in 2020 think they can beat him this time around, they're free to give it a shot. If the cowards who were too scared to run in 2020 think he's vulnerable this time around, they're free to toss their names in the hat. He can't actually stop anyone from running. This is the thing I didn't get in 2016, I didn't get in 2020, and I still loving don't get. The idea that the establishment politicians who've won competitive elections are obligated to step down and hand their seat to someone else, or that people who've won election after election are obligated to discard their policies and adopt the platform of a bunch of losers who can't win anything but the deepest blue seats. That's silly. If someone wants that seat so drat bad, they'd better go show they can win it the hard way.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 07:38 |
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Pleasant Friend posted:As someone who has studied the rightwing-infosphere and should have a good understanding of how persistent narratives spread through media you should know that is not how that would be accepted. It would be permission for Fox news and worse calling Biden an unpopular loser and a coward, giving them ammunition to call the last 4 years a failure and help build up Trump as the big man who defeated Biden without even an election. 1, they'll say anything anyway, and 2, he won't be the candidate, so who cares. It immediately deflates any of those attacks, he can take all that heat, and let the new guy or gal move forward with a cleaner slate. Killer robot posted:Is there an actual candidate where this would happen? That's specifically what I came here to ask. It doesn't look like it, aside from maybe Whtimer. But I still think it could be Katie Porter. Main Paineframe posted:This is the thing I didn't get in 2016, I didn't get in 2020, and I still loving don't get. The idea that the establishment politicians who've won competitive elections are obligated to step down and hand their seat to someone else, It's the next election that matters. The GOP is firing up a savage war machine, and there is a very real chance it'll absolutely steamroll him, in which case we're all hosed. If you guys are positive he can handle it and win, great.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 07:48 |
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Bucky Fullminster posted:1, they'll say anything anyway, and 2, he won't be the candidate, so who cares. It immediately deflates any of those attacks, he can take all that heat, and let the new guy or gal move forward with a cleaner slate. I am positive he can handle it, however I'm not positive he'll win. If I could call any event ~12 months out with absolute certainty, I'd take out loans to buy derivatives as aggressively as possible rather than pay attention to politics.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 07:51 |
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Biden may be far from the strongest incumbent who has run for reelection, but it's hard to overstate just how important the incumbency advantage is. Unless a president is presiding over a severe economic downturn, egregious scandals, or general malaise, it's very easy for them to argue "Well, things aren't that bad now, why risk them getting worse?" - and only really, really charismatic candidates (See: Clinton, Reagan) are usually able to overcome that. On top of that, not having to run a primary means not burning millions of dollars that could be better spent on the general, avoiding costly and/or nasty fights between candidates and their supporters that might linger into November, and also not having to commit to policies that might be popular with the base in Iowa but poison to independents in states that matter. It's definitely fair to be concerned about Biden's chances, but let's not kid ourselves that some incredible candidate could spring up and lead the party to victory at this late hour. If Biden suddenly decided to step down, the primary would instantly become a vicious and nasty knife fight that could run right up into the convention, and the resulting candidate would be in a far weaker position than Biden would be.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 08:20 |
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Bucky Fullminster posted:That's specifically what I came here to ask. It doesn't look like it, aside from maybe Whtimer. But I still think it could be Katie Porter. What, did 2016 and 2020 not matter? Every election matters. That's the secret to effective political participation. Every single national election, state election, and even local election. There is absolutely no such thing as a presidential election that doesn't matter or isn't important. The GOP fired up a savage war machine in 2020 against him too, and it didn't steamroll him at all. It's entirely possible that it'll be tougher in 2024, but there's only one person in the entire country with a proven record of beating Donald Trump with the full weight of the Trump machine behind him, and that's Joe Biden. Moreover, Biden did it while Trump was the sitting incumbent, after fighting his way through a very competitive primary with a number of other candidates. And now he's the incumbent, and one who did a lot of good things that helped a lot of people during his term. That's absolutely not something we can take for granted! It's fair to say that if you can't think of someone who'd do better than Biden, then there isn't anyone who'd do better than Biden, because if someone was an overwhelming no-brainer choice for presidential nomination then you would probably already know who they are! As for Whitmer, she has absolutely no intention of running this year. In fact, she's currently the co-chair of Biden's reelection committee.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 08:23 |
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Bucky Fullminster posted:That's specifically what I came here to ask. It doesn't look like it, aside from maybe Whtimer. But I still think it could be Katie Porter. It is absolute madness to think a 3 term Representative is a front runner for President. Let alone as someone primarying the sitting President. quote:It's the next election that matters. The GOP is firing up a savage war machine, and there is a very real chance it'll absolutely steamroll him, in which case we're all hosed. Everything point towards a situation where Biden has a very high likelihood of winning. There's no way to set it up where Donny has no chance, but the orange dipshits' odds aren't good.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 08:26 |
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Main Paineframe posted:What, did 2016 and 2020 not matter? I meant the generic "next" election is the one that counts, but yes, this coming one does continue the trend of mattering exponentially more. Those ones were incredibly important too. 2016 screwed the world, 2020 momentarily staved off its destruction, and now the destruction is right back on the table, and the way that the republicans have dropped pretty much all pretence and are going for open fascism seems different. I think there is an argument that anyone could have won in 2020 because people were so tired of Trump's poo poo, and the dems probably won in spite of biden, not because of him. Gyges posted:It is absolute madness to think a 3 term Representative is a front runner for President. She rules and would annihilate the lot of them. IF the apparatus got behind her of course.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 08:41 |
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TBH I'm not sure what makes somebody a front runner for president anymore. "Has experience" seems way less useful than, 'can hold an audience captive' and 'can speak with passion to one or more electoral bases.' The Democrats are absolutely terrible at finding and vetting talent. This is one of the reasons it's always kind of lol worthy when people talk about 'running better candidates', as if there's a recruitment arm of the DNC that seeks electable young presidential candidates.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 09:02 |
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Well, surely the idea behind such criticism is that there should be such an operation in play?
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 11:07 |
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FlamingLiberal posted:It may have been a Bentley but the cops have not confirmed yet a.) It was a Bentley and b.) none of the initial reporting was correct https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/22/us/niagara-falls-rainbow-bridge/index.html quote:The man, who lived in New York State, had plans to attend a KISS concert in Canada but when it was canceled, went to a casino in the US instead, investigators believe. The crash occurred after the couple left the casino, the sources told CNN. Who had KISS on their bingo card for this event???
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 11:19 |
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Bellmaker posted:a.) It was a Bentley and b.) none of the initial reporting was correct The initial reporting I saw was simply that a car exploded on the bridge, and that it was too early to speculate as to anything else besides that. Which is exactly what needs to be said by news sources when an event like this is reported on, though nothing can be done about individuals (and forums!) speculating about what happened.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 11:26 |
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Bellmaker posted:a.) It was a Bentley and b.) none of the initial reporting was correct I saw "Bentley" "WNY Resident" and "Casino" and now I'm dying to know who it is. I have a real guess and a "would be hilarious but probably not" guess, but I'll keep it to myself until they say something.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 11:33 |
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Ms Adequate posted:Well, surely the idea behind such criticism is that there should be such an operation in play? I just have to think, what percentage of people on the left do you suppose feel that the Democratic establishment has too little say on who runs for office and that they ought to take a firmer hand in deciding who enters primary elections? It seems that the usual argument for people who have a strong opinion on the matter is exactly the opposite. Though that all aside, running for office can be a pretty big deal with a lot of work and expense, especially for those who already have a solid career. Even if the old saying is true that every Senator and Governor sees a future President in the mirror, that's different for them wanting to make the leap right now. There's a reason why never party has really had a "bench" per se, just a varying number of vocal hopefuls and past losers still itching for another swing.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 11:37 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 00:23 |
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Bucky Fullminster posted:She rules and would annihilate the lot of them. IF the apparatus got behind her of course. Only one guy has gone from the House of Representatives to the White House: Garfield. Lincoln lost a famous Senate bid after his single term. That's it. Everyone else held a higher office, got that Military cred, or hosed up their plan to lose the election and start a media brand. You don't go from 3rd tier famous House Rep to upsetting the sitting President of you party. Which is aside from the fact that all the people you've put forward are either running for another office already or officially part of the campaign to get Biden a 2nd term. Nobody wants to run against Biden on the Democratic side. The only exceptions are either astro turfed by the Republicans or have less of a shot at the nomination than Asa Hutchinson.
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# ? Nov 23, 2023 11:54 |