Google Jeb Bush posted:

you know, I was thinking earlier that it might be time for my intermittent "I'm not sure what you think the DNC is, but it's not" post

tldr, it's not a shadowy conspiracy with total control over the democratic party. The Democrats are not UK Labour where Keir Starmer (*spits*) can execute an internal coup and straight up throw leftists out of the party. Their power is much softer, and almost totally subservient to state parties, and again, a bunch of weird squabbling factions.

relatedly, I am completely baffled by the idea of someone who has been in a room with three or more leftists simultaneously who goes "ah yes, this other organization is clearly a hive mind working in perfect lockstep". buddy, half the local democratic party orgs have knife fights to the death about where to purchase donuts for the meeting

socialsecurity posted:

Yeah a lot of leftist conspiracies like the primary thing or the rotating villain nonsense assumes way more power and organization than the DNC has by a huge factor. It's kinda like how right wingers think LGBTQIA people are all in on some nonsense conspiracy to make all kids gay or whatever, they are just not that unified or organized to pull that off on a national scale.

Google Jeb Bush posted:

I have no idea why you're phrasing it that way, or even really asking the question. The frontrunner by a trillion miles is Joe Biden unless he is ailing or dead, and possibly then.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

the majority of dem primary voters wanted and voted for a centrist and centrist voltron would have all thrown in for whichever part of voltron seemed to be in the lead, which was almost certainly going to be the previous, beloved centrist president's vp

socialsecurity posted:

Yeah a lot of leftist conspiracies like the primary thing or the rotating villain nonsense assumes way more power and organization than the DNC has by a huge factor. It's kinda like how right wingers think LGBTQIA people are all in on some nonsense conspiracy to make all kids gay or whatever, they are just not that unified or organized to pull that off on a national scale.

Google Jeb Bush posted:

relatedly, I am completely baffled by the idea of someone who has been in a room with three or more leftists simultaneously who goes "ah yes, this other organization is clearly a hive mind working in perfect lockstep". buddy, half the local democratic party orgs have knife fights to the death about where to purchase donuts for the meeting

Bucky Fullminster posted:

If the DNC is really set on running him

Google Jeb Bush posted:

Bucky Fullminster posted:

cool, well however it works, can you guys somehow try and make sure that there is a decent name on the next ballot please.

quote:

CORRECTION
An earlier version of this article said that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said his brothers Max Kennedy and Douglas Kennedy support his presidential campaign. After the story published, Max Kennedy contacted The Post to say he does not support his brother’s campaign and is supporting the reelection of President Biden. This article has been updated.

quote:

[...]
There are dueling visions of Camelot competing for Americans’ attention this month, which marks 60 years since President John F. Kennedy was killed. On one side are the documentaries and public memorializing of Kennedy and his legacy. On the other side is his 69-year-old nephew, RFK Jr., who has spread falsehoods about vaccines and, according to the New York Post, claimed that the coronavirus was “targeted” to sicken Black and Caucasian people and spare Chinese people and Ashkenazi Jews. (RFK Jr. said that those comments were misinterpreted to smear him.)

“There’s a nice Maryland connection to the Kennedy family,” said Josh Mazer, the campaign’s Maryland chairman, introducing the candidate at Vibe. “Our lovely and classy former first lady, Kennedy Kathleen Townsend” — actually, former lieutenant governor Kathleen Kennedy Townsend — “is a resident. We love her very much. We hope she’s doing well. We hope she votes for Bobby.”

The crowd laughed. Townsend will not be voting for Bobby.

She, along with three of her siblings, issued a statement last month when he relaunched his campaign as an independent, after starting as a Democrat. They called their brother’s run “dangerous to our country,” and said that “Bobby might share the same name as our father, but he does not share the same values, vision or judgment. Today’s announcement is deeply saddening for us. We denounce his candidacy and believe it to be perilous for our country.” Its co-signatories are Rory Kennedy, Kerry Kennedy and Joseph P. Kennedy II.

The collective keepers of the Camelot legacy are worried, and maybe for good reason. A Quinnipiac University national poll released this month found evidence, however momentary, that RFK Jr.’s vision is resonating — and/or voters are unhappy with their mainstream choices: 22 percent supported RFK Jr. in a hypothetical three-way race against President Biden and former president Donald Trump.

“If I get 34 percent in the battleground states, I can win those electors,” RFK Jr. told the crowd at Vibe. “It’s winner take all. So in a three-way race, all I have to do is beat the other two by a point.” He made it seem so simple, so destined, this plan for a second Kennedy White House, 60 years after the first ended in tragedy. He told the crowd: “This is very doable.”

[...]
RFK Jr. is the fourth Kennedy in his family to run for president — fifth if you include his uncle by marriage, Robert Sargent Shriver Jr., who ran unsuccessfully for the Democratic nomination in 1976.

Three Kennedys are serving in the administration that RFK Jr. hopes to dislodge: Caroline Kennedy (his cousin) is ambassador to Australia, Victoria Reggie Kennedy (widow of his uncle Ted) is ambassador to Austria, and Joe Kennedy (his nephew) is the special envoy to Northern Ireland.

But did you even know this? Perhaps you’ve heard more about RFK Jr.’s shirtless push-up videos, or his falconry, or the recent TMZ report about his barefoot walk to and from an airplane bathroom.

quote:

“I have a great relationship with my family,” said RFK Jr., standing in the green room after taking hundreds of selfies with the adoring crowd at Vibe.

He had taken off his jacket and rolled up his sleeves. After putting in a dinner order with his staff — chicken, potato salad, coleslaw and jelly to go with the chicken — he sat in a mustard-yellow chair. His communications director, who was present, had been told the topic of the conversation in advance, but it was clear RFK Jr. was not thrilled.

“We were raised to, you know, to debate, and argue with each other, … but to do it congenially and to be able to differ with each other on issues,” he said in his low, gravelly voice, the product of a neurological condition called spasmodic dysphonia.

Asked which family members support his campaign, he listed his cousin Anthony Shriver — founder of Best Buddies, a nonprofit that supports children with intellectual and physical disabilities — and his younger brothers Max and Douglas. Neither brother responded to The Post’s attempts to reach them for comment, but after this story published online, Max Kennedy contacted The Post to say that he does not support his brother’s campaign and that he supports Biden.

“I think there are now 105 members of my family,” said RFK Jr., “and I would say that they’re probably evenly divided, those who support me and those who are less supportive.”

And what does the notion of Camelot mean to him now?

“I’m not going to comment on that,” he said, curtly. This was shortly before he asked to speak off the record, and once agreed to, unleashed some of his thoughts.

Who could blame Kennedy for being upset? It must be unpleasant to spend your life answering intermittent questions about the glories and tragedies in your family, when you’d much rather talk about your accomplishments: how you cleaned up the Hudson River, for example, and sued Monsanto. But where would his candidacy be without the Kennedy name? He invokes his family legacy when it’s convenient for him. He positions himself as heir to his forebears’ aspirations.

“If you go down the checklist of things that my uncle and father believed in, I would check every box,” he said.

Some of the things RFK Jr. believes in: discontinuing U.S. support for Ukraine; discrediting vaccines, which he has falsely claimed can cause autism; bitcoin; a vague “they” — the establishment, the banks — that is sinister and all-controlling.

“They have us all at each other’s throats,” he told the crowd at Vibe. “They have a formula.”

Mike Barnicle has been a friend of the family for decades, and has known RFK Jr. for most of his life.

“He is very smart. He is very complicated,” says Barnicle, a political commentator who worked as a volunteer for RFK Sr.’s presidential campaign in 1968. “No matter what he says, no matter how bizarre, crazy or flat-out wrong it is, he believes it. He’s not making it up.”

But the question Barnicle can’t answer is: Why is RFK Jr. like this?

How did a man with the ultimate insider name become a controversial outsider candidate?

Armchair psychologists talk about post-traumatic stress disorder, about the personal weight of family assassinations, about conspiracy theories used to order the chaos of a violent America. One of the conspiracy theories that RFK Jr. promotes is that the CIA, not a lone gunman, was responsible for his father’s and uncle’s deaths. RFK Jr. supported the parole of Sirhan Sirhan, the man convicted of killing his father, when many of his siblings opposed it.

RFK Jr. addresses the crowd in Annapolis.
A majority of Americans think there was a conspiracy, at least when it comes to his uncle. A Gallup poll released Monday found that 65 percent of U.S. adults believe that Lee Harvey Oswald did not act alone in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

The campaign trail has a way of bringing back traumatic memories. In September, a man was arrested for bringing a gun to an RFK Jr. campaign event. Last month, another man was arrested for attempting to break into the Los Angeles home that the candidate shares with his wife, actress Cheryl Hines. RFK Jr. and his private security detail requested Secret Service protection. It has not yet been granted.

“His courage to be here and have events like this, even with his own security, is amazing. I mean, it really speaks to someone who really cares deeply about what they are looking to create,” said Heather MacMillan, 50, an RFK Jr. supporter at the Annapolis event. She was vague about what she saw in him, saying, “I’m primarily interested in statesmen coming to the fore in this country.”Kennedy’s meandering speech at Vibe addressed homelessness, U.S. aid to Ukraine and the political influence of corporations such as BlackRock and State Street. He spoke of his children, who went to “great colleges and they have good jobs, but none of them are looking for a home and none of their friends are. They’re figuring out how to pay their college debt. And the idea of owning a home is totally out of reach.” (Forbes estimates that RFK Jr.’s net worth is approximately $15 million.)

He pledged that in his first week as president, he would “dramatically reduce” the National Institutes of Health’s research into infectious diseases.

“Hang Fauci!” a supporter yelled.

His audience seemed inclined to support him, because they, too, have been dismissed — sometimes by their own family.

Said supporter Alan Chavis, 65, a truck driver from Baltimore: “I got family members that won’t talk to me.”

Google Jeb Bush posted:

but if Biden decides he's too ill or dead to take the nom,

Bucky Fullminster posted:

He saw what happened when RBG held on to the job for too long, instead of passing the baton to keep it alive, right?

Is anyone in his circle trying to convince him to step aside? Can the public?

Bucky Fullminster posted:

He saw what happened when RBG held on to the job for too long, instead of passing the baton to keep it alive, right?

Is anyone in his circle trying to convince him to step aside? Can the public?

Xiahou Dun posted:

Those positions aren’t even a little bit analogous.

Bodyholes posted:

If he dies a Republican does not get to pick his successor.

Bucky Fullminster posted:

By refusing to let someone else step in, he is effectively letting republicans have more power than they otherwise would.

Bucky Fullminster posted:

By refusing to let someone else step in, he is effectively letting republicans have more power than they otherwise would.

But yeah, it's orders of magnitude worse.

Kalit posted:

Show your proof of this statement.

Bucky Fullminster posted:

We can't prove something in the future, but it's based on the fact that I don't think he will win. And the GOP will get more than just a supreme court seat as a result.

Pleasant Friend posted:

"Why aren't you running if you think you did a good job??"

Xiahou Dun posted:

Stamping your feet even harder is not, in fact, evidence.

Xiahou Dun posted:

That’s not how that works.

Bucky Fullminster posted:

Biden: "I'm a patriot first and foremost, I've served my country to the best of my ability, and now take great pride in passing the baton to this outstanding candidate to lead us in the next chapter of our history"

World: "phew"

Bucky Fullminster posted:

Biden: "I'm a patriot first and foremost, I've served my country to the best of my ability, and now take great pride in passing the baton to this outstanding candidate to lead us in the next chapter of our history"

World: "phew"

Bucky Fullminster posted:

By refusing to let someone else step in, he is effectively letting republicans have more power than they otherwise would.

But yeah, it's orders of magnitude worse.

Pleasant Friend posted:

As someone who has studied the rightwing-infosphere and should have a good understanding of how persistent narratives spread through media you should know that is not how that would be accepted. It would be permission for Fox news and worse calling Biden an unpopular loser and a coward, giving them ammunition to call the last 4 years a failure and help build up Trump as the big man who defeated Biden without even an election.

Killer robot posted:

Is there an actual candidate where this would happen?

Main Paineframe posted:

This is the thing I didn't get in 2016, I didn't get in 2020, and I still loving don't get. The idea that the establishment politicians who've won competitive elections are obligated to step down and hand their seat to someone else,

Bucky Fullminster posted:

1, they'll say anything anyway, and 2, he won't be the candidate, so who cares. It immediately deflates any of those attacks, he can take all that heat, and let the new guy or gal move forward with a cleaner slate.

That's specifically what I came here to ask. It doesn't look like it, aside from maybe Whtimer. But I still think it could be Katie Porter.

It's the next election that matters. The GOP is firing up a savage war machine, and there is a very real chance it'll absolutely steamroll him, in which case we're all hosed.

If you guys are positive he can handle it and win, great.

Bucky Fullminster posted:

That's specifically what I came here to ask. It doesn't look like it, aside from maybe Whtimer. But I still think it could be Katie Porter.

It's the next election that matters. The GOP is firing up a savage war machine, and there is a very real chance it'll absolutely steamroll him, in which case we're all hosed.

If you guys are positive he can handle it and win, great.

Bucky Fullminster posted:

That's specifically what I came here to ask. It doesn't look like it, aside from maybe Whtimer. But I still think it could be Katie Porter.

quote:

It's the next election that matters. The GOP is firing up a savage war machine, and there is a very real chance it'll absolutely steamroll him, in which case we're all hosed.

If you guys are positive he can handle it and win, great.

Main Paineframe posted:

What, did 2016 and 2020 not matter?

Every election matters. That's the secret to effective political participation. Every single national election, state election, and even local election. There is absolutely no such thing as a presidential election that doesn't matter or isn't important.

The GOP fired up a savage war machine in 2020 against him too, and it didn't steamroll him at all. It's entirely possible that it'll be tougher in 2024, but there's only one person in the entire country with a proven record of beating Donald Trump with the full weight of the Trump machine behind him, and that's Joe Biden. Moreover, Biden did it while Trump was the sitting incumbent, after fighting his way through a very competitive primary with a number of other candidates.

Gyges posted:

It is absolute madness to think a 3 term Representative is a front runner for President.

FlamingLiberal posted:

It may have been a Bentley but the cops have not confirmed yet

Kind of hard to tell from the video

quote:

The man, who lived in New York State, had plans to attend a KISS concert in Canada but when it was canceled, went to a casino in the US instead, investigators believe. The crash occurred after the couple left the casino, the sources told CNN.

The vehicle had entering the bridge area on the US side, law enforcement sources familiar with the investigation said. Earlier reports had indicated the car was traveling from Canada to the US.

Bellmaker posted:

a.) It was a Bentley and b.) none of the initial reporting was correct

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/22/us/niagara-falls-rainbow-bridge/index.html

Who had KISS on their bingo card for this event???

Bellmaker posted:

a.) It was a Bentley and b.) none of the initial reporting was correct

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/22/us/niagara-falls-rainbow-bridge/index.html

Who had KISS on their bingo card for this event???

Ms Adequate posted:

Well, surely the idea behind such criticism is that there should be such an operation in play?

Bucky Fullminster posted:

She rules and would annihilate the lot of them. IF the apparatus got behind her of course.