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While I'm sorry you had such horrible time at school, not all schools are like that.
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Nov 24, 2023 10:20
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Every educational institution I've ever been to has worked that way, they're factories for which children and young adults are the raw materials. The objective is to get them into a desired shape at the other end via application of an industrial process and if any don't fit through the machine they're a problem. If the end result isn't helpful to the object being processed that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is keeping the factory running so that people can keep getting paid.
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Nov 24, 2023 10:25
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OwlFancier posted:they would be just as happy to see you dead 
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Nov 24, 2023 10:33
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Yeah that's just horseshit dude. I get the impression that your experience was dreadful and had a profound impact on you that even now you are still impacted by it. But your sweeping statement on all educational institutions is just not accurate. And makes it sound like you really need to seek therapy over this so you can move past it.
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Nov 24, 2023 10:34
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I'm sure it works well enough if you fit in well with it. But that's just the shape of society, there's a pretty clear throughline between school and work and work treats you the same way, as does society. If you don't fit in that's what the jobcenter and prisons are for.
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Nov 24, 2023 10:35
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im not sure the body of teaching staff, however broad the spectrum of competence, is into child death tbh
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Nov 24, 2023 10:37
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They didn't give a poo poo when I was there. All I got for reporting suicidal thoughts was an hour a week of counseling and told that if I didn't stop being disruptive I'd be expelled, that there was nothing they could or would do to make the experience better. And this was at a supposedly "good" state school. Whether individual teachers feel one way or another about it the structure of the system can only accomodate removal or compliance. They simply aren't capable or interested in making major changes to how their process works to accomodate a minority of children. Which again is very consistent with how wider society works. If you can't do your job for whatever reason you just get fired, if you're in a state where you can't manage any work you get sent to the jobcenter and they torment you until you sign off, by whatever means necessary. The structure moves people who don't fit in out of sight of "functional" society and doesn't care what happens to them once they're there. There is the thin pretense of humanity at every step, of course, but that only exists so that each step of the process doesn't have to feel like they're doing what they're actually doing. I really can't fathom what other view of society people could have after spending enough time ITT to be honest. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Nov 24, 2023 |
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Nov 24, 2023 10:41
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I don't think most teachers are like that, sure you get the occasional person who is burned out (which is a big topic of research too), but most at the very worst have some good intentions. Of course if you don't fit in then yeah I don't think discipline helps any beyond simple pavlovian conditioning and the focus on it probably distracts from actually helping pupils (by e.g. offering them counselling and allowing them to take breaks from school). I've been thinking about this and I think the anxiety/mindfulness may be partly due to the students effectively meditating while zoning out, while course comprehension would of course be higher if students are listening rather than reading about history on Wikipedia or whatever else - I think it would be more useful to measure overall outcomes from the entire year. Certainly when I was trying to pay attention to something that I struggle to understand I'd be more anxious rather than less. All that said I think tiktok and facebook and watching non-educational videos and the like should definitely be banned. Maybe you could use chromebooks with a strict blocklist to force pupils to be productive if they are not paying attention? Private Speech fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Nov 24, 2023 |
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Nov 24, 2023 10:45
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My school was hilariously lax compared to some of you guys by the sounds of it. To the point of one of the teachers still has my lighter. Looking back I have so many stories that would be considered scandalous by modern standards. That being said, I have no idea how it actually impacts you as a person in the end. There are so many moving parts in someones life you have no control over.
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Nov 24, 2023 10:50
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OwlFancier posted:They didn't give a poo poo when I was there. All I got for reporting suicidal thoughts was an hour a week of counseling and told that if I didn't stop being disruptive I'd be expelled, that there was nothing they could or would do to make the experience better. And this was at a supposedly "good" state school. Two of my nieces have autism but go to standard schools. Both schools have been wonderful with accomodating their needs. My sister over 15 years ago now went through a period of mental health issues along with struggling with her sexual and gender identity, it was the school that helped her the most. She sat on the cams waiting list for years. Without the schools support she probably wouldn't be here today. There are good schools and there are bad schools. They are not one single monolith who want differently abled children dead because they are a burden. Go to therapy.
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Nov 24, 2023 10:51
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teachers arent therapists or counsellors, they arent trained or equipped to deal with the myriad of mental health issues that crop up through adolesence. they can only refer you to whatever safeguarding service the school provides for its students (which itself is often the first thing to have funding removed) and then you're in the weeds. lots of students hated their teachers for these reasons, but the teacher is only the face of the structure behind it and they too are mostly powerless to effect any changes their students might need - especially in face of years upon years of funding cuts. This is why (in secondary education particularly) the level of burnout among teachers is massive. On top of teaching itself they are increasingly expected to triage other needs when the apparatus to do so doesnt exist.
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Nov 24, 2023 10:53
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I would highly recommend not sending your kids to school in Sheppey. That place is "special" even for north Kent.
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Nov 24, 2023 10:55
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That would be why I don't have any particular antipathy towards my teachers, as I said it is structural. I'm sure it fucks them up as well. I don't imagine any one of them consciously thought of it that way. That's what I mean about the pretense of humanity. At each step there is something people can do that they are told is the responsible action and after that point they are absolved of responsibility. Because that is necessary in order to keep them working at their post. Then the next step does the same thing, and they will have support structures and peer groups who have been conditioned the same way telling them it's OK, they did what they're supposed to do, down and down the line until the problem people are simply gone. It's probably the only way a society can function when its primary purpose is producing and consuming workers. To turn the worker themselves into an industrial commodity. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Nov 24, 2023 |
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Nov 24, 2023 10:55
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Private Speech posted:
Possible, hadn't thought of that, it might just be not looking at social media which has been demonstrated to cause anxiety in both children and adults.
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Nov 24, 2023 11:07
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Betjeman posted:I would highly recommend not sending your kids to school in Sheppey. That place is "special" even for north Kent. Yeah, the Oasis academy has a really bad rep
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Nov 24, 2023 11:38
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2.6 stars on google reviews is pretty yikes. The place even looks like a military base more than a school on a map. e: That's a firing range on the left and parade ground in the middle. 
Private Speech fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Nov 24, 2023 |
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Nov 24, 2023 11:46
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Nice IK you got here
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Nov 24, 2023 11:47
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Homework can gently caress right off.
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Nov 24, 2023 11:49
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Dr. Cool Aids posted:Nice IK you got here You jelly mate. Sir Sidney Poitier posted:Homework can gently caress right off. Eh. Depends on what it is, there is bad homework but if done well it can be really good for learning.
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Nov 24, 2023 11:51
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I thought schools were pointless when we had encarta. Now we have Wikipedia they definitely are.
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Nov 24, 2023 11:55
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OwlFancier is 100% right about schools. The entire institution is a broken machine that treats students like meat. I'm happy some of you had better experiences on the factory floor, but for 95% of students it's a living hell, and for 95% of the staff they couldn't give a poo poo.
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Nov 24, 2023 11:56
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Individual teachers for my kids have ranged from the obviously bored but competent to absolutely excellent and inspirational people, but much like my experience with religion, as soon as any chain develops above that it becomes a problem both my kids have autism and the number of times I have spoken with a senco about it has been once to organise an appointment that never happened because they quit, because there's a new senco every few months because they start, realise the backlog and absolute lack of resources and then quit, over and over and over again which is largely the same story behind them having had far more headteachers, interim headteachers, super headteachers, temporary headteachers and such than they have years in education, which is then largely the same story behind the academy trusts running this grand sham- an academy trust fails, a new one gets rolled in to "fix the problem", does exactly the same kind of poo poo the previous one does (uniform! petty behavioural stuff! UNIFORMS!) but has some immunity from ofsted for a year or two, eventually fails ofsted, gets the boot and a new academy trust steps in once again, rinse the taxpayer and repeat that would have been enough of a problem without the massive rifts caused by lockdowns etc and while there are legitimate concerns over things like mobile phone use, they are small and easy symptoms to focus on rather than the disease as a whole, which is the education system is an utterly corrupt corporate effort to provide the capitalist system with functional workers using a school system stuck in the 1800s- any happy deviances from that are a bug, not a feature.
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Nov 24, 2023 11:56
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Being totally hosed up by your school years is one of our proudest british traditions.
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Nov 24, 2023 11:56
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Jippa posted:My school was hilariously lax compared to some of you guys by the sounds of it. To the point of one of the teachers still has my lighter. Looking back I have so many stories that would be considered scandalous by modern standards. As you might expect from a school in special measures, the strictness of teachers ranged from the kind of teacher who would make you tuck your shirt in on one side of the campus and use teleportation to be waiting for you outside your next class to make you tuck it in again. To the teacher who walked in in March and told us to hand in our coursework only to look at our terrified surprised faces and go, in her thick southern US accent "oh, I plum forgot to set it din't I?" and would listen to The Butthole Surfers while we worked.
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Nov 24, 2023 12:07
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Feeling the angst today, thread? lol forever at turning your individual bad experience into a sweeping generalisation about the education system. The children crushing factory, hell for 95% of students, and 95% of teachers actively hate you. Wanna hear your ideas for education reforms
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Nov 24, 2023 12:08
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PriorMarcus posted:OwlFancier is 100% right about schools. The entire institution is a broken machine that treats students like meat. I'm happy some of you had better experiences on the factory floor, but for 95% of students it's a living hell, and for 95% of the staff they couldn't give a poo poo. If it's 95% of students suffer "living hell" why do only 12% say they are unhappy with school life? And that's not to say 12% is good, that's still too high and we massively lag behind many European countries for satisfaction and quality. But some of you are projecting your own experiences on to others and thinking it's the norm.
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Nov 24, 2023 12:08
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PriorMarcus posted:OwlFancier is 100% right about schools. The entire institution is a broken machine that treats students like meat. I'm happy some of you had better experiences on the factory floor, but for 95% of students it's a living hell, and for 95% of the staff they couldn't give a poo poo. Please source your numbers
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Nov 24, 2023 12:12
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DreddyMatt posted:Feeling the angst today, thread? It went off the rails a bit.
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Nov 24, 2023 12:12
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School was pretty poo poo, can't disagree.
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Nov 24, 2023 12:15
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keep punching joe posted:School was pretty poo poo, can't disagree. No doubt. Work is pretty poo poo too
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Nov 24, 2023 12:17
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keep punching joe posted:School was pretty poo poo, can't disagree. Hearing bad things about this "work" too
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Nov 24, 2023 12:17
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My favourite teacher was the one who helped us record a parody grindcore album involving us daisy chaining mic cables to have a song end with a toilet flushing.
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Nov 24, 2023 12:17
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Deny us art school status all you want fuckers we're making art anyway!
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Nov 24, 2023 12:18
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Gimme a ubi, let me spend my days living quietly building weird poo poo in my garden and doing bong rips.
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Nov 24, 2023 12:19
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josh04 posted:Being totally hosed up by your school years is one of our proudest british traditions. There's some anecdote about a British diplomat at an international summit exclaiming "we can't do that, it'll be like when you go swimming and the other boys steal your clothes".
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Nov 24, 2023 12:19
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Regarding jaded teachers and their "caring" decline, especially when it comes to secondary moderns whose catchment is working class, as my mine was, I spent a bit of time considering why. There are usually 2 paths to teaching. The burning zeal path, and the no better option path (Those Who Cant). The former have a passion to help the children, to bring out the best, to polish that diamond and do good. Then year after year, they watch bright enthusiastic kids, that the teacher puts great investment into, children who could change the world, get crushed, lose interest, get involved with drugs, crime, get pregnant and drop out. Year after year after year. And so, they become jaded. Become more and more selective about who they invest in, because they are just as human as everybody else. As to the latter, they start off in a position of mild cynicism and just motor on from there. I had couple like that who, over the years, had become excellent teachers, but were always slightly distant. Not all teachers go that way, of course, we all knew one that had faith in us specifically, even if we let them down. This is not a judgement on these people, just my thoughts on the situation teachers find themselves in. It is not a comfortable path to tread. Government meddling, and the inspection system, just makes it harder all round. My (future) daughter-in-law is the former and has that zeal. To me, it is very much an  thing. My son too, though he has taken an NHS analyst job to help pay for her uni for the time being, plans on coming home and teaching, because there a dearth of (qualified) CompSci teachers here and wants to make a difference.
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Nov 24, 2023 12:41
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Some of the good teachers also left because the tories made teaching a slog in terms of paperwork and other poo poo designed to make sure state schools can't properly educate voters.
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Nov 24, 2023 12:43
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Personally I wouldn't want to teach because as the kid of a teacher burned out of the system I wanted an easier life, so I learned to janitor computers and now the only exercise I get is for fingers.
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Nov 24, 2023 12:46
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Angrymog posted:When I lived at home 'The cat is sitting on me' was the ultimate reason not to get up and do something. It's very awkward when you live alone and have to choose between necessities and moving the cat. He retired to the kitchen windowsill to gaze nobly and tragically out into the darkness. He will never be able to forgive me for my cruel betrayal. (Yes, he's the cat you're probably thinking of - I should have posted his 2-year anniversary here a couple of weeks ago, really, since he was adopted through an earlier UKMT thread.) Cat tax - cat and his older brother, practicing their human-immobilisation skills: 
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Nov 24, 2023 12:48
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It's quite a challenging job, for pretty poo poo pay, and not much flexibility in terms of how you do the job. It's not surprising teachers get burnt out
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Nov 24, 2023 12:49
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