[P/I] Dear university students, my advice to you is to become familiar with the Quran

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [P/I] Dear university students, my advice to you is to become familiar with the Quran

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(Thread IKs: Zodium, John Charity Spring, really queer Christmas)

Pomeroy: Apr 20, 2020; Can't post for 14 days!

PsychoInternetHawk posted:

Lol if Israel declares the PA terrorists and rounds them up to try and get some morale going

https://youtu.be/cSICN8BPda8?t=50

quote:

Wait! You're making a terrible mistake, I've done everything you asked. I tell you I'm loyal, I believe in the two state solution, no, wait!

# ? Nov 30, 2023 10:45

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 8, 2024 10:11

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

Al-Saqr posted:

lol get hosed nazi president

:==========

“The German President waited half an hour on the plane’s runway with his hands crossed in Qatar to find an official to receive him 🙎🏻‍♂️
.
.
“The German media is searching for an explanation for this strange situation
They found that the reason might be that German President Walter Steinmeier's plane arrived a little early
.
So the Qataris made him have to wait until he completed the remaining period agreed upon for his arrival.”

https://twitter.com/mehmetcanbekli1/status/1730089479635976604?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

I smile every time I see a euro leader eat poo poo and realise their real position in the world is as a barnacle on the sinking ship of the United States rather the lighthouse of civilization they project themselves as

# ? Nov 30, 2023 10:51

NoNotTheMindProbe: Aug 9, 2010; pony porn was here

HallelujahLee posted:

more news from demon nation

https://twitter.com/StopZionistHate/status/1729911561630683417

The House of Representatives on Tuesday overwhelmingly passed a resolution affirming Israel's right to exist, and only two members did not vote in favor of it.
Democratic Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan, the sole Palestinian American in Congress, voted "present," while Republican Rep. Thomas Massie of Kentucky voted against it.
However, the resolution made no mention of Palestinians � who have their own historical claims in the region � even as it stated that Jewish people are "native to the Land of Israel
The resolution also states that "denying Israel's right to exist is a form of antisemitism"

I'm sure nothing bad can come from officially equating Jewishness to the wholesale murder of Muslim and Christian children.

# ? Nov 30, 2023 10:55

Spergin Morlock: Aug 8, 2009

FlapYoJacks posted:

This photo shows the hostages are far more unhappy to be back in Israel than with Hamas. Perhaps it’s because Israel spent the last two months attempting to bomb them?
https://twitter.com/avivaklompas/status/1730003253692154313

lol at the red triangle at the back of the bus

# ? Nov 30, 2023 10:55

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Al-Saqr posted:

lol get hosed nazi president

:==========

�The German President waited half an hour on the plane�s runway with his hands crossed in Qatar to find an official to receive him 🙎🏻‍♂️
.
.
�The German media is searching for an explanation for this strange situation
They found that the reason might be that German President Walter Steinmeier's plane arrived a little early
.
So the Qataris made him have to wait until he completed the remaining period agreed upon for his arrival.�

https://twitter.com/mehmetcanbekli1/status/1730089479635976604?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

Aw, he thought he was important. That's cute.

What exactly does Germany offer the rest of the industrialised world these days? Or any part of the world?

Apologies to any Germans here. I really have no idea. I like the ceramic mugs though.

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:09

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

West Germany was practically a Nazi sympathizer state up to the late 80s. Abortion was also illegal, and technically still is, with the German courts recognizing that the unborn have a right to life.

It's a Nazi sympathiser state today, OP.

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:10

a helpful bear: Aug 18, 2004; Slippery Tilde

DancingShade posted:

Apologies to any Germans here. I really have no idea. I like the ceramic mugs though.

picked a mug up atr the renaissance faire, when germany possibly made a positive contribution to the world

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:13

hey mom its 420: May 12, 2007

they make board games

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:15

Sancho Banana: Aug 4, 2023; Not to be confused with meat.

DancingShade posted:

What exactly does Germany offer the rest of the industrialised world these days? Or any part of the world?

Cars and chemicals.

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:15

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

Sancho Banana posted:

Cars and chemicals.

not anymore, those factories are all moving to somewhere without a bombed pipeline

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:17

Goa Tse-tung: Feb 11, 2008; ;3; Yams Fan

DancingShade posted:

What exactly does Germany offer the rest of the industrialised world these days? Or any part of the world?

customers

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:23

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Sancho Banana posted:

Cars and chemicals.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/germanys-speira-end-rheinwerk-aluminium-smelting-due-energy-costs-2023-03-09/

Germany's Speira to end Rheinwerk aluminium smelting due to energy costs
Reuters
March 9, 202311:21 PM GMT+11Updated 9 months ago

LONDON, March 9 (Reuters) - Germany's Speira said on Thursday it will shut the aluminium smelting operations at its Rheinwerk plant due to high energy prices, after it was forced to halve production last year.

Although Western Europe's energy crisis, which began in 2021 and worsened after last year's Russian invasion of Ukraine, has passed its peak, it is still affecting power-intensive aluminium production. Output in Western Europe fell by 12.5% in 2022.

crepeface posted:

not anymore, those factories are all moving to somewhere without a bombed pipeline

Yep. I even have some "German" combat boots in my boot collection. Very nice. Lots of German words on the label. Made in China.

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:24

Jon Carbuncle: Sep 21, 2002; Soiled Meat

Sancho Banana posted:

I'm gonna have to learn warhammer first but I appreciate it

most important rule for warhammer: never give gw money

the rest is pretty easy

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:33

my dad: Oct 17, 2012; this shall be humorous

DancingShade posted:

Yep. I even have some "German" combat boots in my boot collection. Very nice. Lots of German words on the label. Made in China.

Some French military / USA police combat boots had parts made by me here in Serbia back when I had a factory job, and half the machinery and most of the background logistics was, guess it, Chinese. Outsourcing chains get silly.

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:35

FuzzySlippers: Feb 6, 2009

crepeface posted:

the ideology takes root because of material circumstances. if it wasn't beneficial to follow/believe in that ideology, it wouldn't be adopted!

I don't think this is true as the actual utility of ideology can be purely emotional. As FF said the ideology of Confederate slavery actually wasn't of material benefit to them compared to competing ideologies. They were doggedly pursuing slavery and a conception of a slavery driven lifestyle even when it made no sense to do so.

Material circumstances can make an ideology more persuasive and extreme material circumstances of 1920s Germany were a great environment for an ideology like Nazism to take root, but the contours of Nazism were not defined by the material. Nazism was actually disastrous for organizing an economy or a war effort. Desperate people in bad circumstances will find extreme ideologies more attractive, but it's not an evolutionary ideology laboratory that produces the most efficient ideology.

Consider also that some of the most ideologically driven people in our contemporary world have few material restraints on them. Israel is a rich country and most committed Zionists aren't materially dependent on the project for their comfort. Their ideological reward is emotional. Israel could be richer and safer with a less unrepentant version of Zionism.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The US's commitment is based on the imperial aims of our geopolitical project. Israel's presence in the Middle East has produced several compliant Arab states where before they resisted becoming neocolonies. It creates contradictions in the region that actively destabilizes it and keeps all remaining resistance to imperialism underdeveloped. It's a necessary function in the realization of totalizing liberal hegemony, with the United States remaining the world's primary consumer.

But why does America need Israel to do that? It can use its immense wealth and power to force countries into submission without need of Israel. Several of those US client states were created with British assistance while Israel was still forming. Its big bases are not in Israel, oil is not in Israel, and Israel has its own aggressive foreign policy goals that are frequently not in alignment with the US.

Often the US has to spend diplomatic capital to bail Israel out of problems of its own making. Consider the immense cost and problems of the 70s recession and that was entirely because of Israel. That's before we even consider the incredible amount of money that the US gives Israel who consume it into their own grift industries.

American commitment to Israel is driven by what supporting Israel means to the decision makers and not pragmatism. American foreign policy has so rarely been driven by utility anyway. Like the insane cost in lives and money of opposing communism in SE Asia was not a necessary step in creating a global empire. It could've achieved far more power and influence in the region if the decision making wasn't done by very stupid and ideologically driven people.

The American empire has succeeded despite its endless ideologically driven mistakes only because American wealth and power after WW2 was so enormous it could absorb them. America is a dumb rich kid preening about its successful companies that stay afloat only due to a constant flow of cash from their parents.

edit: It's like how people say the GWoT was blood for oil, but the PNAC idiots in the W admin were clear why they wanted to invade Iraq. It was blood for the inane dreams of very stupid people. Some money was made by Haliburton but that was a consequence and not a cause. We give them too much credit to say they were that mercenary about it.

FuzzySlippers has issued a correction as of 11:49 on Nov 30, 2023

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:35

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

my dad posted:

Some French military / USA police combat boots had parts made by me here in Serbia back when I had a factory job, and half the machinery and most of the background logistics was, guess it, Chinese. Outsourcing chains get silly.

also dont ask who actually made your made-in-italy prada too lol

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:39

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Palladium posted:

also dont ask who actually made your made-in-italy prada too lol

My last pair of made in Italy sunglasses shipped direct from China. They still had the made in Italy stamped on them too, for that extra touch of class.

(they weren't fakes, just straight from factory)

Europe is nothing but a brand label. A second hand car dealership with some turtle wax.

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:43

Spergin Morlock: Aug 8, 2009

Palladium posted:

also dont ask who actually made your made-in-italy prada too lol

the probably contract now with the same factories that used to produce knockoffs of their products in the past

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:47

hey mom its 420: May 12, 2007

the way it seems to me when I look outside my window, the economy in europe is based on people cutting each other's hair and delivering food to each other. sorry about excessive EU-chat

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:47

Pomeroy: Apr 20, 2020; Can't post for 14 days!

https://twitter.com/BTnewsroom/status/1729965363440361561

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:53

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

FuzzySlippers posted:

I don't think this is true as the actual utility of ideology can be purely emotional. As FF said the ideology of Confederate slavery actually wasn't of material benefit to them compared to competing ideologies. They were doggedly pursuing slavery and a conception of a slavery driven lifestyle even when it made no sense to do so.

Material circumstances can make an ideology more persuasive and extreme material circumstances of 1920s Germany were a great environment for an ideology like Nazism to take root, but the contours of Nazism were not defined by the material. Nazism was actually disastrous for organizing an economy or a war effort. Desperate people in bad circumstances will find extreme ideologies more attractive, but it's not an evolutionary ideology laboratory that produces the most efficient ideology.

Consider also that some of the most ideologically driven people in our contemporary world have few material restraints on them. Israel is a rich country and most committed Zionists aren't materially dependent on the project for their comfort. Their ideological reward is emotional. Israel could be richer and safer with a less unrepentant version of Zionism.

the ideology of the confederate slavery WAS beneficial, but became outdated when the economic model of east coast finance and international markets outcompeted the national slave labour model.

also, don't forget that we're talking about individuals. those slave owners largely got reintegrated into the new american political and economic reality and then they relied on segregated de-facto wage slavery, rather than outright slavery.

in the case of zionists, they individually benefit from espousing the settler colonial ideology by advancement in the a power structure such as a political party. non-zionist israelis are either politically disenfranchised or leave (or get assassinated).

im not trying to say that people believe a stupid ideology solely because of material circumstances, and that there's no emotion involved. but i really dislike the "some people are just shitheads" explanation. they were raised that way, in a particular environment for a reason.

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:53

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Pomeroy posted:

https://twitter.com/BTnewsroom/status/1729965363440361561

The guards outside the hotel need faceless masks for intimidation. They look like they don't want to be there.

# ? Nov 30, 2023 11:55

Autisanal Cheese: Nov 29, 2010

https://x.com/isaiah_bb/status/1730032921925337410?s=20

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Nov 30, 2023 12:03

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Pomeroy posted:

https://twitter.com/BTnewsroom/status/1729965363440361561

"they wanted to wipe out the Palestinians, so we all became Palestinians"

# ? Nov 30, 2023 12:07

FuzzySlippers: Feb 6, 2009

crepeface posted:

the ideology of the confederate slavery WAS beneficial, but became outdated when the economic model of east coast finance and international markets outcompeted the national slave labour model.

also, don't forget that we're talking about individuals. those slave owners largely got reintegrated into the new american political and economic reality and then they relied on segregated de-facto wage slavery, rather than outright slavery.

in the case of zionists, they individually benefit from espousing the settler colonial ideology by advancement in the a power structure such as a political party. non-zionist israelis are either politically disenfranchised or leave (or get assassinated).

im not trying to say that people believe a stupid ideology solely because of material circumstances, and that there's no emotion involved. but i really dislike the "some people are just shitheads" explanation. they were raised that way, in a particular environment for a reason.

The question isn't whether they derive any material benefit from their ideological views, but are their decisions driven by the material or the ideological. The slave owners didn't run the numbers and see they could make more money in slavery than manufacturing. They were committed to a specific weird lifestyle of plantations and slaves due to dodgy culture and were looking for ways to continue it (hence needing more markets to sell slaves and such). Do Israelis want to drive out the Palestinians because they want access to the land for its resources and their ideology is a convenient excuse or do they have dodgy spiritual beliefs about the land and don't want to share it with an Other? It's important because if it's just about resources hell let's get the Israelis some natural gas somewhere else and maybe they'll leave the poor people alone. If it's about a weird blend of nationalist, ethnosupremacist, and religious poo poo then we can't expect the Zionists will ever be happy with Palestinians existing there at all.

edit: you are right I'm being a bit blithe with 'shithead' and the reasons people are as they are would be infinitely complex on its own.

FuzzySlippers has issued a correction as of 12:40 on Nov 30, 2023

# ? Nov 30, 2023 12:10

Dixon Chisholm: Jan 2, 2020

John Charity Spring posted:

this is definitely a real strength of the thread, on top of the unstinting support (material, moral, and monetary) that every poster in it is giving to Hamas

im going to kiss khhhamas

# ? Nov 30, 2023 12:13

samogonka: Nov 5, 2016

Autisanal Cheese posted:

https://x.com/isaiah_bb/status/1730032921925337410?s=20

trying hard to get advertisers back on twitter

# ? Nov 30, 2023 12:15

kecske: Feb 28, 2011; it's round, like always

hey mom its 420 posted:

sorry about excessive EU-chat

baguette posting

# ? Nov 30, 2023 12:15

Egg Moron: Jul 21, 2003; the dreams of the delighting void

Autisanal Cheese posted:

https://x.com/isaiah_bb/status/1730032921925337410?s=20

He was gifted them by the family of a hostage on his �see I have Jewish friends� tour of Israel and has vowed to not take them off until all hostages are returned

# ? Nov 30, 2023 12:20

Spergin Morlock: Aug 8, 2009

Egg Moron posted:

He was gifted them by the family of a hostage on his “see I have Jewish friends” tour of Israel and has vowed to not take them off until all hostages are returned

Is he including the IDF captives as well or only the civilians? Cuz if it's the first one he may be wearing them for a while

# ? Nov 30, 2023 12:35

Puppy Burner: Sep 9, 2011

Frosted Flake posted:

One of the fundamental tensions of Israel is that, like Rhodesia and South Africa, they can be a democracy or a state based around an extremely narrow franchise and definition of citizenship, but not really both. To maintain their democracy where only certain people vote, the other community needs to be tortured and terrorized. But how can you be a democracy that prevents a plurality, I think it's fair to say majority, of people from voting?

It's not just limited to self-conception, it's why Israel can't choose the obvious path of a one state solution. They could not maintain an exclusionary definition of citizenship, while incorporating people into the nation, while also not intending for them to vote.

I am curious how liberals twist themselves into knots over this, because "the only democracy in the Middle East" must avoid actually being a democracy at all costs.

the people who can't vote are brown, op

# ? Nov 30, 2023 13:17

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

Autisanal Cheese posted:

https://x.com/isaiah_bb/status/1730032921925337410?s=20

does that mean he's IDF now?

hamas has the opportunity to do the funniest thing

# ? Nov 30, 2023 13:46

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

Someone asked about the German government's support for Israel. Tl;dr :

I see people reacting "why is Germany doing this?" vis a vis loyalty oaths to Israel and so on.

If you want a top line explanation before the sources: Germany has accepted, to varying levels of openness, both the completion of the Holocaust, (which is to say, their government's actions towards living Jews in Israel has to be understood as reflecting a domestic belief that there are only dead Jews in Germany), and, for lack of a better word, its legitimacy. Which is not to say any German official alive today will say the Holocaust was good. Instead, they take as a baseline fact, that there is no longer such a thing as a German Jew, and that while there was a historical Jewish community in Germany, the "proper" place for Jews now is in Israel.

You can see this a bit like contemporary Spain. The expulsion of the Jews and Moors is treated as a regrettable historical incident. Of course, to varying degrees and, charitably, perhaps in different ways behind closed doors, but still. However, Spanish officials do not act as if there is a living Muslim or Jewish population in Spain today, and certainly do not do anything to foster one. 15th century mosques are museums, but permits will not be issued for new ones, if you follow. For the Jewish community in particular, as "the Jews have been expelled from Spain" is treated not just as historical fact but as fait accompli, Spain, like Germany, encourages Jews to go to Israel. It's only natural, after all, they're not part of the national fabric. (liberal frowny face )

You might also compare this to Canada, where land acknowledgements and professions of regret about the treatment of First Nations scale with how many First Nations communities live in a particular area. The most anguished statements of regret and radical calls for reparations, land back, decolonialism etc. are the ones that happen where there is no chance of a native community actually making good on it. America is the same way of course.

So, it is with Germany and the Jews. Jews (of German origin) are in Israel, Jews remain only an artifact of history in Germany. Jews living in Germany might actually want the German government to return their property, (more on that in a moment).

So, how can Germany can act in a way that would make Dual Loyalty an irrefutable truth? I mean, imagine demanding that people within your country owe absolute allegiance, on threat of expulsion, to another nation. It's because, if you take the long view, they have accepted the premise of the Nuremberg Laws. This is directly linked to the Holocaust. Not just because the Nuremberg Laws allowed the Holocaust to happen, by effectively making German Jews nationless, but also because you can accept the premise of the Nuremberg Laws, and not feel particularly bad about it () if the Holocaust has already happened. You don't have to worry about Dual Loyalty if you don't believe that group exists within (Holocaust), or belongs within (Nuremberg Laws), your country in the first place.

It would be completely anathema for the German state to loudly support German Jews swearing allegiance to a foreign power, if they believe there were German Jews. They barely acknowledge that there are Jews today, alive, in Germany. When they do, it's clear, that they are not Germans, and clearer still that in the German government's opinion, they belong in Israel. IMO, The reasons why Germany has been acting the way they have towards Israel have almost nothing to do with guilt and more with this -

Without doing the napkin math or trying to post all of the statistics on my phone, the Third Reich profited, at minimum, $215B in today's money, from the Holocaust - in seized property, immigration tax, literal gold teeth in Swiss bank accounts. That's not including the sale of assets, for example art, or the profits made from seized companies. So, that's a low-ball estimate, and one that relies on the Nazi appraisal (and reporting) of seized assets, which is another way to say they severely undercounted according to every expert. Add to that corruption, Swiss banks, people trying to cook the books once the war was lost etc. and you are looking at huge amounts of assets, in Germany, today that originated in the Holocaust, often either directly owned by the German government or privatized by them at some point, with the proceeds going to the state treasury.

Germany has paid to date, $87B in reparations. Again, even by the roughest estimate, that leaves $128B of assets originally owned by German Jews still in German hands. With that in mind, let's examine Germany paying reparations to the state of Israel, and not Jewish community themselves, encouraging German Jews to emigrate to Israel not just immediately after the war in West Germany, but in a massive state-funded campaign after unification in 1991 as well.

It raises a lot of questions about that relationship. It would seem as if some people in the German state believe it is preferable, and again, most charitably "less expensive" to pay Israel for all of the Jews to go (and stay) there, than to have a German Jewish community, which might require them to divest some of this portfolio.

There are German laws on the books regarding German citizens who were charged the emigration taxes during the Third Reich. German legal codes are a bit obtuse to me, but so far as I know, for them to be compensated they need to show that their emigration was unjust. You know, that they were German, wished to remain in Germany, and so were unfairly forced to emigrate and give up that 80-90% of their assets. It's connected to right of return, you need to make good on it for the courts to award it to you. Now, if instead people remain in Israel, Canada, whatever, they've forfeited it. This is what I mean about the Nuremberg Laws and the consequences of the Holocaust having a status almost like fait accompli to the German state.

Their logic seems to be that they don't have to return all, or even most, of the money taken from German Jews who were kicked out, if none of them return to Germany.

In fact this was explicitly West German policy (overseen by many civil servants who had served the Third Reich) and is laid out in a recent book, After the Holocaust: Jewish Survivors in Germany after 1945. You see, West Germany did not actually take the Nuremberg Laws off the books, so effectively recognized the German Jews who survived the Holocaust as Displaced Persons, and Jews, but implicitly or explicitly, not as Germans. They therefore tirelessly worked to get rid of them alongside the other Displaced Persons. Survivor accounts are pretty unanimous in being told to go �back to Poland�, and �back East� - which is even more troubling since those were well known euphemisms in Nazi Germany for the programme of ghettoization and extermination in Poland. So, the German public, and German government, effectively acted as if the Nuremberg Laws stood, there was no such thing as a German Jew, and Jews were charitably Poland�s problems, if you don�t read that as �go to Hell�.

The publisher is very generous, the full book is far more frank:

�After the Holocaust tells the story of life after liberation from the perspective of Jewish sworking to rebuild their lives. Since there was no plan for liberation - no structure in place to help survivors settle once they were liberated - these testimonies speak of struggle amid confusion and pain. Ambiguous regulations aimed to repatriate displaced Jews and to confine them to camps were put forth while the classification of German Jews as Germans without entitlement to additional food rations or other support were also put in place. Thus, the normalisation of Jewish life after 1945 amounted to abandonment. And as Germans busied themselves with their own 'catastrophe' of defeat and with the reconstruction of German culture, Jews were left to depend on military and Jewish aid agencies, all pursuing their own, often conflicting, agendas. Jewish culture since the Holocaust incorporates the traumatic memory of the Holocaust as a collective and an individual experience. Yet it also incorporates the memory of how after liberation, Germans remained divided from Jews in their mutual struggle to re-build their lives.�

At the risk of repeating myself, according to Ian Kershaw�s research, Germany made a tidy profit from the Holocaust. It was not just art and jewels that were seized by people murdered at the camps, property and businesses were seized too. These were not returned to surviving German Jews after the war, because they had been seized �legally", and so survivors would have to go to court, for example to evict the German family that had been living in their apartment since they were deported to Dachau. The occupation authorities preferred not to deal with this, and the German court system, on top of the wartime sympathies and histories of the vast majority of people involved (because Jews had been kicked out of the legal professions and civil service, remember, and reinstatement similarly dragged post 45) also had huge backlogs. All of which to say, the German government had huge amounts of property it would prefer the owners not reclaim. Either because the state literally used melted down gold teeth in Swiss banks, a huge part of the budget of Nazi Germany and West Germany also, but that there were fears that it was �disruptive� to displace good Germany families �just� because the Jews who (�formerly�) owned their homes and businesses turned up alive.

(Remember that Jews trying to flee Germany after 1936 had to surrender their immovable property, and also pay gigantic fees.) Post-war West Germany fully intended to keep this property, and budgets until at least the 1950�s were at least partially made possible with expropriated Jewish wealth.

You�ll never guess how this has been framed in liberal scholarship - all the communists' fault . Take Geller�s Jews in Post-Holocaust Germany, 1945-1953 :

�Using archival materials from the Jewish communities of East and West Germany as well as governmental and political party records, Jay Howard Geller analyzes the reestablishment of organized Jewish life in Germany and the Jews' critical ties to political leaders. Whereas the West German community needed to overcome deep cultural, religious, and political differences before uniting, the small Jewish community in Eastern Germany was forced to struggle against communist opposition.�

Finally, Germany was not the only country this happened in. The first waves of �communist oppression� in Poland were, well, see for yourself:

�In Unsettled Heritage, Yechiel Weizman explores what happened to the thousands of abandoned Jewish cemeteries and places of worship that remained in Poland after the Holocaust, asking how postwar society in small, provincial towns perceived, experienced, and interacted with the physical traces of former Jewish neighbors.

After the war, with few if any Jews remaining, numerous deserted graveyards and dilapidated synagogues became mute witnesses to the Jewish tragedy, leaving Poles with the complicated task of contending with these ruins and deciding on their future upkeep. Combining archival research into hitherto unexamined sources, anthropological field work, and cultural and linguistic analysis, Weizman uncovers the concrete and symbolic fate of sacral Jewish sites in Poland's provincial towns, from the end of the Second World War until the fall of the communist regime. His book weaves a complex tale whose main protagonists are the municipal officials, local activists, and ordinary Polish citizens who lived alongside the material reminders of their murdered fellow nationals.

Unsettled Heritage shows the extent to which debating the status and future of the material Jewish remains was never a neutral undertaking for Poles�nor was interacting with their disturbing and haunting presence. Indeed, it became one of the most urgent municipal concerns of the communist era, and the main vehicle through which Polish society was confronted with the memory of the Jews and their annihilation.�

Those awful heavy handed communists in Poland and East Germany made people give their poo poo back and reinstated citizenship for Jews and it caused literal riots. West Germany went another route, they moved heaven and earth to deport German Jews: to Israel, to the DDR, and to Poland. They worked to make staying in West Germany intolerable, to the maximal extent that they could.

For instance, they tried to keep the Jews who survived Belsen from moving into the village - they had to remain on the grounds of the concentration camp, even after liberation. Not just the local people of Belsen, but German officials referred to the Survivors as "the camp's prisoners", using a German word referring to convicts. When Survivors tried to start a Yiddish newspaper, the Germans suggested they go to Israel, and claimed that no printing blocks in that language survived in Germany or would be imported. They complained to the American occupation authorities about a passionate Yiddish culture emerging in the DP camps. They insisted that it was communist, and that the Jewish community remaining in Germany was dangerous, both because the Jews themselves were subversive, and because Good Germans would riot if a �criminal element� disturbed German society.

Finally, until the 2000�s, (West) Germans when discussing Holocaust Survivors amongst themselves in academic literature, which is to say decoupled from global Holocaust Studies (in English), referred to Survivors as �Former Prisoners�. This is one of those German compound word things, but basically referring to them as �Ex-Cons� upheld the justice of their imprisonment, aberrant nature etc.

All of this to say, I recommend anyone reading up on West Germany if they want to know about the intentions behind support for Israel.

That's a spicy Bratwurst

# ? Nov 30, 2023 13:57

BeanpolePeckerwood: May 4, 2004; I MAY LOOK LIKE SHIT BUT IM ALSO DUMB AS FUCK

Al-Saqr posted:

Bahraini MP Mohammed Al-Balushi: This is an event in solidarity with the Palestinian people, and unfortunately the American, French and British ambassadors are present here, as are those who kill the dead person and walk in his funeral.

https://twitter.com/ajarabic/status/1729950742285328500?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg