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Randalor posted:... uhhhhh... Alright my b on Metroid 2 I forgot about that one. SMB2J isn't a real sequel tho it's a mappack. And obviously SMB2USA/doki doki panic doesn't count either
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Nov 30, 2023 23:26
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Lobok posted:Reminds me, I was doing the dishes the other day and I idly wondered what the greatest sequel ever is. Across all media. And not just great on its own but great as a sequel in that it is so far and above its predecessor(s). Back door sluts 9
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Nov 30, 2023 23:34
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oldpainless posted:Yes, I’ve seen your posts What can I say, I speak from experience. Arivia posted:I’m looking at playing Dragon’s Dogma soon from a friend’s recommendation. What classes should I avoid? Every class has its downsides, honestly. If you're going melee, you're going to have a bad time fighting the few targets that explicitly demand you take them on at range, if you're going physical only, you're going to have a bad time against the few targets that are highly resistant to physical damage, and if you go magic only you're going to have a bad time against the few targets that are highly resistant to all magic. But also due to how the leveling system works, being a jack of all trades isn't exactly a good idea either. Owl Inspector posted:metal golems You can defeat them (and regular golems) as a mage! It's just the worst experience in the game. A few spells do a tiny, tiny, bit of physical damage. So you can just kind of sit there spamming that forever. My personal go-to was the giant tornado one simply because it covered such a huge area it made it nearly impossible to miss. Nuebot has a new favorite as of 00:21 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 00:18
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DontMockMySmock posted:Alright my b on Metroid 2 I forgot about that one. You got some real gonads buddy you coming in here with two sequels and call both of them invalid.
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Dec 1, 2023 00:23
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Arivia posted:I’m looking at playing Dragon’s Dogma soon from a friend’s recommendation. What classes should I avoid? Don't play a mage, not because mages are bad, but because melee is where the fun part of the game is.
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Dec 1, 2023 01:00
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moosecow333 posted:The first Dynasty Warriors was a 2D fighter, heck of a genre jump between 1 and 2 where it became the hack and slash game we now know it to be. It's closer to the current series was a spin-off game that was vastly more popular than the 2d fighter (which was itself a spin-off of the ROTK strategy games). The Japanese series title is Shin Sangoku Musou, and the original game was Sangoku Musou, but the entire series is Dynasty Warriors in English. This is why the English titles are numbered 1 higher.
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Dec 1, 2023 01:15
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Doki doki panic's engine was first built by the mario team as part of designing a sequel to super mario bros (focused on being able to handle vertical levels). This means that SMB2 USA is a remarioization of an unmarioized mario project. 
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Dec 1, 2023 01:31
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Tunicate posted:Doki doki panic's engine was first built by the mario team as part of designing a sequel to super mario bros (focused on being able to handle vertical levels). Should be a demarioized Mario project, no?
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Dec 1, 2023 01:35
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Arivia posted:I’m looking at playing Dragon’s Dogma soon from a friend’s recommendation. What classes should I avoid? Basically any of the melee or archer classes are cool and good in their own unique ways, except for the two handed sword melee class which massively limits the number of skills you can equip for stupid reasons. I think the classes that do more things tend to be more fun so I'd go for assassin or magic archer or magic knight.
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Dec 1, 2023 01:44
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Doki Doki Panic, or, as it was originally known, Mario Is Missing
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Dec 1, 2023 01:45
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We've been talking about sequels and I always thought it was interesting that, for the most part, video games are one of the few media where sequels actually get better. With a game, you can keep what works, polish up poo poo that needed work and expand on ideas introduced in the original. Films always have the weight of trying not to repeat what the first film did while trying to introduce new poo poo that may or not land but all a game really has to do is keep polishing the foundation of whatever players liked and getting rid of stuff people complained about.
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Dec 1, 2023 01:59
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BiggerBoat posted:We've been talking about sequels and I always thought it was interesting that, for the most part, video games are one of the few media where sequels actually get better. With a game, you can keep what works, polish up poo poo that needed work and expand on ideas introduced in the original. Films always have the weight of trying not to repeat what the first film did while trying to introduce new poo poo that may or not land but all a game really has to do is keep polishing the foundation of whatever players liked and getting rid of stuff people complained about. I mean yes, it sound so simple when put like that but then how do you explain something like the universally acclaimed Dark Souls being followed by the garbage fire that was the (lazily named) Dark Souls 2. At least From learned from the many mistakes they made and brought the quality back for the (cleverly named) Dark Souls 3
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Dec 1, 2023 02:03
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Captain Hygiene posted:Doki Doki Literature Club, or, as it was originally known, Mario Teaches Typing
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Dec 1, 2023 03:46
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oldpainless posted:I mean yes, it sound so simple when put like that but then how do you explain something like the universally acclaimed Dark Souls being followed by the garbage fire that was the (lazily named) Dark Souls 2. At least From learned from the many mistakes they made and brought the quality back for the (cleverly named) Dark Souls 3 Wasn’t DS2 made by a side team, with a troubled development, while the main team worked on Bloodborne? Speaking of Bloodborne, it rips poo poo, but I don’t think I especially care for how it influenced DS3’s gameplay. If you want enemies to attack like a normal ARPG that’s honestly pretty cool, but please also do the Bloodborne thing where my roll speed is a locked mid-fast roll hybrid and weight doesn’t exist. Also, don’t have a stat that’s literally just “you have to waste levels to equip heavier stuff” when that used to be rolled into the “more attack strings” stat.
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Dec 1, 2023 03:48
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Dark Souls 2 is the pinnacle of Souls gaming sorry you can't understand that
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Dec 1, 2023 03:49
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oldpainless posted:I mean yes, it sound so simple when put like that but then how do you explain something like the universally acclaimed Dark Souls being followed by the garbage fire that was the (lazily named) Dark Souls 2. At least From learned from the many mistakes they made and brought the quality back for the (cleverly named) Dark Souls 3 I enjoyed Dark Souls 2 and it's a perfect illustration of what I mean. They shortened overly long boss runs, added fast travel right away, didn't go as nuts with the curse/poison and actually let me clear levels eventually. BiggerBoat has a new favorite as of 04:16 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 04:13
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oldpainless posted:I mean yes, it sound so simple when put like that but then how do you explain something like the universally acclaimed Dark Souls being followed by the garbage fire that was the (lazily named) Dark Souls 2. At least From learned from the many mistakes they made and brought the quality back for the (cleverly named) Dark Souls 3 dark souls was a sequal to demonses's souls. in that regard massive massive jumo in quality from and already excellent if flawed game
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Dec 1, 2023 04:18
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kazil posted:Dark Souls 2 is the pinnacle of Souls gaming sorry you can't understand that wrong BiggerBoat posted:I enjoyed Dark Souls 2. WRONG
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Dec 1, 2023 04:19
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DontMockMySmock posted:Alright my b on Metroid 2 I forgot about that one. I mean, what do you define a sequel as, then? Because that's like saying Mega Man 2 (or 3, or 4, or...) is just a mappack.
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Dec 1, 2023 04:20
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more like oldpowerstanceless
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Dec 1, 2023 04:21
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There was just something different about Dark Souls 2 that really made it stand out to me. Things were just weirder all around. It still had some rough spots, the castle with all those knights on the narrow walkways for instance. Or the boss fight with those 3 statues if you weren't using something with strike damage. Dark Souls 3 though, I felt that it started strong, and then kinda just petered out.
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Dec 1, 2023 06:07
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My feeling about Dark Souls 2 is that it had a really interesting pitch about what 'a sequel to Dark Souls' should be. Its ideas didn't always reach their best execution, but I loved how it approached building on the concepts and the world that it was playing in--basically, by tearing down most of it, finding its core, and building out from that. A respect of the ideas, but none of the totemic iconography, to the point where even its approach to the concept of hollowing had its own distinct identity. Dark Souls 2 wasn't the best game it could be, but it defined a path for 'Dark Souls sequels' that could've borne some amazing fruit. And then Dark Souls 3 came along and just went 'gently caress all that we're doing Dark Souls 1 again'.
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Dec 1, 2023 07:39
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Idk, I must be missing something because a lot of people have complaints that DS3 is just Dark Souls 1 Again: Greatest Hits, when, idk, it feels like the opposite? There’s a lot of DS1 references but it’s all in service to selling that the world of Dark Souls is deader than dead and really should be put out of its misery. The only thing that felt indulgent was Siegvald and maybe Soul of Cinder phase 2, but that’s just me, maybe someone can explain how the game is actually going “ah poo poo look at how cool this thing from DS1 was” abd I’m just stupid.
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Dec 1, 2023 08:06
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Anor Londos still there
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Dec 1, 2023 08:14
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Meowywitch posted:Anor Londos still there It’s kind of a poo poo pile though tbh, maybe it got off better than Darkwood Forest having dead mushroom people scattered around who died from Blighttown seeping in but Aldrich alone is hosed and depressing.
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Dec 1, 2023 09:14
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Dark souls 3 was so bad. 2 mixed it up enough that it felt different and unique, but was clearly in the same vein. Plus you could powerstance your bare fists while wearing butterfly wings. 3 was just the first game but way faster
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Dec 1, 2023 09:24
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All of the Dark Souls games are simultaneously the best and worst in the series.
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Dec 1, 2023 09:40
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Last Celebration posted:There’s a lot of DS1 references but it’s all in service to selling that the world of Dark Souls is deader than dead and really should be put out of its misery. It's Dark Souls, showing your favorite place/thing/person being identifiably ruined and falling to decay is the fanservice.
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Dec 1, 2023 09:42
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Theres nothing wrong with DS3 imo but its still my least favorite Souls game. I think it's because after Bloodborne I was expecting them to do some really cool poo poo with the combat and world building but nothing came out of that. Thank god for Sekiro
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Dec 1, 2023 09:55
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DontMockMySmock posted:
I guess the difference between movies and games (for the purposes of this discussion) is that you can iterate on game mechanics, fix things that don't quite work and put the result out there as it's own entity and people will go "Oh, cool, this sequel is better than the original", whereas if you do that with the narrative of a movie people go "This is basically the same movie!". The only film sequel I can really think of that is basically "the same film again only better" is Evil Dead 2 (though I'm sure there's more, a lot fall into the category of remake rather than sequel). Edit: oops, I somehow skipped an entire page and someone else has made exactly this point. Oh well.
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Dec 1, 2023 09:59
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I think From is more interesting when they try things that are more raw and experimental, which is why I think Demon's Souls is still their best work to date and DS2 is the best of the Souls trilogy. The biggest strike against DS2 nowadays is that it looks absolutely hideous, but the fanmade lighting mod is actually quite tastesful and well-done.
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Dec 1, 2023 10:37
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Last Celebration posted:Idk, I must be missing something because a lot of people have complaints that DS3 is just Dark Souls 1 Again: Greatest Hits, when, idk, it feels like the opposite? There’s a lot of DS1 references but it’s all in service to selling that the world of Dark Souls is deader than dead and really should be put out of its misery. The only thing that felt indulgent was Siegvald and maybe Soul of Cinder phase 2, but that’s just me, maybe someone can explain how the game is actually going “ah poo poo look at how cool this thing from DS1 was” abd I’m just stupid. Siegvald, as you've mentioned, anor londo being there for seemingly no reason other than the pontiff somehow just like, chaining it to his palace so he could feed gods to aldrich. Aldrich being made out of two dark souls bosses fused together. Ornstein's and Havel's armour found in the dragon place. The swamp is the forest from Dark Souls and there's now an artorias cult, you can also find the corpse of that old mushroom from the dark souls dlc. You can also find the corpse of the giant blacksmith in anor londo. Andre being your smith for no real reason. Smouldering lake seems to be a weird compression of ashen lake, blight town and izalith; you can find quelaag's sister's corpse right where you left it. Out of all of those, the only one that actually has any particular importance is the artorias cult because the farron watchdogs were the guys who fought the spread of the abyss to the bitter end, like the legend of artorias. They are, presumably, in dark root forest because that's where oolacile used to be, which is where manus used to be, which is the origin of the abyss. As mentioned above, Anor Londo isn't where it used to be and was just kind of inexplicably brought to irithyll so Aldrich could eat Gwyndolin. It could have been any location in the game, really. Aldrich could have been anywhere and still been the same boss fight with the explanation that he hid somewhere safe to digest his food. It's just kind of there. And speaking of, for all the flack that Dark Souls 2's hilariously bad transitions get, the swamp>catacombs>irithyll>anor londo trip is also incredibly silly. The rest of the references are just kind of that, references. There are a tiny few to 2 as well but they're almost all item descriptions along the lines of "a set of armour from a forgotten kingdom" sort of descriptions and generally thrown into random rear end places, like the dudes hanging out with giants in the anor londo dueling arena who drop dual weapons that act vaguely like power stance did. Basically it feels like Dark Souls 3 suffers from the same sort of thing that Zelda: Twilight Princess did, which is that a popular game had a very different sequel, there was a very intense fan backlash, and the sequel to that game was basically the first game again, but bigger and with a lot of overt references to that first game. Then like a decade later people start saying that, actually, the game everyone hated is the better game, we should get more of the better game.
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Dec 1, 2023 10:50
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never hated souls 2 I've always liked how more "open" it was from the beginning compared to the others, there were like four different zones you could choose to go to from the hub 3 is definitely the weakest game in the trilogy which is interesting, usually that doesn't happen in games...
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Dec 1, 2023 11:16
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Nuebot posted:A laundry list of DS3's DS1 references I think a useful thing to compare on this is how much DS2 stuff gets referenced in comparison. Which, off the top of my head, is: -A few scattered items, most obviously the Fume Knight's sword and Lucatiel's armor -Possibly the fact that one of the Lords of Cinder is a giant with a round void where his face should be (he's actually a DS1 giant, not 2, he's just wearing a chainmail hood) -One of the areas that comprises the Dreg Heap int eh DLC, an area explicitly described as the clumped-together ruins of old civilizations, is the Earthen Keep. (It's immediately followed by a DS1 area given much more fanfare.) Twilight Princess is a fair comparison. My read is that DS3 feels like it's doing a 'go back to where it all began' nostalgia pitch that you'd expect from, like... a sixth installment, but by doing that third it just looks more like they're trying to elbow DS2 out of the conversation. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 11:24 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 11:21
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Meowywitch posted:3 is definitely the weakest game in the trilogy which is interesting, usually that doesn't happen in games... It happens often enough because they fail to stick the landing. Second games usually improve iteratively on the first but are not allowed to progress the narrative, since that's left for the final one and the first game didn't set anything else up. Which makes the common failure of not sticking the ending even funnier.
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Dec 1, 2023 11:30
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Most of the bad rep Dark Souls 2 gets comes from the neogaf-rear end "downgrade" and "b-team" narratives that were being bandied about during its launch. Definitely the best opening vid of three.
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Dec 1, 2023 12:05
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I have plenty of issues with DS3 but the "fanservice" stuff was rarely if ever one of them. At the very least I feel like there's a thematic point in returning to the beginning and closing the circle. I also dig the sheer exhausted nature of the world and the hammering home of how people refused to learn and kept linking that drat fire. Or stuff like the Artorias squad getting so far removed from the original that they can barely remember anything about him. Though I guess one of my big complaints kind of includes a lot of the callbacks by default, that being how so much of the nuts and bolts of the story boil down to "ehhh there's some lore somewhere around here about that". I still don't know anything about Irythill and the Pontiff beyond a one sentence summary, and I think I gleaned it from some otherwise intolerable lore video. Edit: Re: Fanservice. Nobody ever seems to mention how 3 is also stuffed full of DeS references, likely more in total than DS1 callbacks. John Murdoch has a new favorite as of 12:20 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 12:14
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Also as I'm wont to point out, once you go digging for it, it turns out 3 has loads and loads of cut content and had tons of fundamental poo poo shuffled around during development. To the point where nearly every single boss was fought somewhere else than they are in the final. Or how the game was going to have a very familiar stealth system which is why various parts of the game still have alarm enemies or patrols.
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Dec 1, 2023 12:19
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Cleretic posted:I think a useful thing to compare on this is how much DS2 stuff gets referenced in comparison. Which, off the top of my head, is: Aside from the earthen peak cameo from the DLC it's pretty much all just items. Fume Knight's Sword, Lucatiel's armour, the Shield of Want, the Drang set found by those dudes chilling with some giants I mentioned above, the Drang Hammers dropped by same, the giant tree in firelink and darkdrift; Alva invades both in base game and DLC and drops his set and Zullie's set (though I think that's more of a dark souls reference), Drakeblood set, the Mirrah set you get from the creighton invasion, desert pyromancer set, ruin set and the faraam set. There might be more, but those are the major ones.
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Dec 1, 2023 13:05
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Cleretic posted:I think a useful thing to compare on this is how much DS2 stuff gets referenced in comparison. Which, off the top of my head, is: You can find Laddersmith Gilligan's corpse and get a gesture from it.
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Dec 1, 2023 14:02
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