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Hotel Kpro posted:Starting week 3 of my new job. Still haven’t gotten my laptop and haven’t been given much to do. I’m content just coasting for a bit
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Nov 30, 2023 09:00
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priznat posted:That fuckin ruled.. Just have that occupying teams screen shares https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9MX2V0TQT6RM?rtc=1&hl=en-gb&gl=GB Someone updated it for 64 bit systems, apparently.
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Nov 30, 2023 12:59
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Fil5000 posted:https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9MX2V0TQT6RM?rtc=1&hl=en-gb&gl=GB Never before have I installed an app with as little hesitation as this.
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Nov 30, 2023 13:08
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I got a career opportunity dumped in my lap that I want to take full advantage of, but I seriously was not expecting it and am overwhelmed with personal life poo poo ATM so I'm turning to BFC for advice. The short summary is that my immediate manager has been poached by another department, and I've been asked to take on his duties as the interim manager starting in January. We're currently under a hiring freeze that's tentatively expected to lift in 4 - 7 months, so the official game plan is giving me that time to prove myself. Depending on how I perform and how I feel at the end we'll either backfill my old position or hire a new manager. What I'm turning to BFC for:
Pertinent facts:
Unless the higher ups pull some fuckery (I know, big caveat), I do not expect this to end in a rug pull. I've been with this department for nearly a decade, and have gotten substantial pay raises (some even off-cycle) and promotions over that time without me having to throw any poo poo fits or deliver ultimatums. The already-in-process transition to handling the monthly forecasting calls was an attempt to give me more prestigious duties in front of important people, leaving me well positioned for the few advancement opportunities that do crop up and justifying more pay raises in the meantime. I've got the strongest communication skills on the remaining team, the greatest seniority outside of current management, and this field is niche enough that it would be difficult (although not outright impossible) to find an external candidate with prior familiarity. Unless I badly gently caress it up, decide I don't want it, or the largely hands-off skip-level managers have a pet pick, I'm getting the position. But I'm going to have to survive until then.
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Nov 30, 2023 19:07
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It's going to end with a rug pull. You need to be practically and emotionally prepared for that. (And it has to be so: you cannot continue doing two jobs for only the lesser job's salary indefinitely.) That said, it's still an excellent resume-building opportunity, so by all means take it. Don't distract yourself overmuch trying to read about how to be an effective manager. For one thing, you will gently caress up in many ways that it would be useless to explain, because inexperience makes it inevitable. Your management know this and don't really care. For another thing, if you're still doing your IC job full time you're not actually going to get to do much managing. But here is a very brief Management 101. A manager fundamentally has five jobs: 1. Get the right people in place. (As an Interim in a company with a hiring freeze, you have no influence over this.) 2. Clearly define for each of them exactly what success looks like. 3. Give them the tools and training they need to be successful, then stay out of their way and let them do their jobs. 4. Hold them accountable. (As an Interim in a company with a hiring freeze, you will be unable to actually do this.) 5. Be an umbrella protecting them from the torrents of bullshit raining down from above, and a bulldozer to move obstacles out of their way. (Again, your ability to do the latter will be near nil; you have no political capital. But you can and should do the former wherever possible.) An Interim has a tough job. Your co-workers have become your reports. They will still view you as a co-worker and regard anything you say as a very optional suggestion. And you are (I presume) expected to continue doing 100% of your existing job plus your erstwhile boss's job, all for the same salary. Try your very best to find ways to blow off the inevitable steam that don't harm your colleagues or your partner. You will start experiencing burnout at around the 3 month mark. Your partner will notice this before you do. Listen to him when he voices his concerns. Remind yourself this is temporary. When they inevitably hire a new boss for you--or, if they tell you "we see some encouraging signs of progress but we still have some concerns, so we're going to extend your Interim period another 6 months then re-evaluate" (translation: "we're happy to get a department manager for free by having a sucker do that plus their IC job at the same time"--then it's time to take your enhanced resume and look for another job. Be prepared for this so you can shift to it immediately. Don't have your partner step away from his career for this. This is a transitional position for you, a stepping stone to a real management role, and you need to grok that. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Nov 30, 2023 |
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Nov 30, 2023 19:29
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Generally agree with above, though I wouldn't be as pessimistic you do NEED to be prepared that this is a stepping stone in case poo poo turns on you. Also agree that there is significant risk here so your partner shouldn't leave their job. You'll just have to weather a storm but it's a great opportunity. Some important skills will be when to give enough information to placate a question and then following up. There's not a lot of advice i can give but be aware that sometimes you just need to give a 2 sentencer and you can absolutely say "I'll send an email with more info". You'll also probably have people try to get you to take on their work because your new and eager to please. Be aware of that too. I generally agree reading a book is probably not tremendously valuable but "Managers Path" by Camille Fournier is very good. It's aimed more at software development but it's pretty universal for technical jobs in general. In particular she does a great job at mapping out the complexity of the IC to Manager move.
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Nov 30, 2023 20:48
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Eric the Mauve posted:It's going to end with a rug pull. You need to be practically and emotionally prepared for that. (And it has to be so: you cannot continue doing two jobs for only the lesser job's salary indefinitely.) Ha, this is less of a case of me taking it and more a case of me being told that I'm doing it. The worst case scenario that I can foresee is me not getting the management position, but becoming the primary person for the forecasting calls. Which isn't the end of the world - it was pretty much was the plan prior to this point, but had been going slowly while I was training new hires on my former duties and kept being the only viable person for doing related regulatory work that popped up. At this point my coworkers still aren't 100% there, and it's going to be years until they have the full nuance, but they don't require handholding anymore. I just need to actually, you know, delegate and accept that their work is adequate if not up to my own standards. I will admit that I will be pissy about it if I tank my mental health for months only to have to turn around and teach a new guy the ropes, though. quote:For another thing, if you're still doing your IC job full time you're not actually going to get to do much managing. That at least, was already a work in progress. My IC job has been building and maintaining financial models and dealing with all the bureaucracy around maintaining permission to use them. I had two main branches of those, and one of those has been, eh, ~75% transitioned to a different employee with me still providing regular guidance, and the other branch we were already planning on beginning transitioning in earnest to a different employee at the start of next year. He's dipped his toes in it at this point and has been involved with related models, but it's a beast. Flip-side of the above is that this was already in motion because my manager had a bit too much on his plate already........ It wasn't a perpetual wasteland, we did hire more employees so we could actually cross-train and learn new duties, but we were only recently in a position to reap the benefits. quote:But here is a very brief Management 101. A manager fundamentally has five jobs: This actually is an area where I've got some experience, albeit only for my own benefit up to this point. A good chunk of our work is imposed on us by a different group that reviews and critiques our models, with varying levels of competence and reasonableness in the follow-up requests. It stresses me the hell out, but I have gotten excellent over the years at politely eviscerating dumb requests and suggesting alternative solutions that actually address the underlying concern if valid. The main problem is going to be learning how to do that for other models that I don't know inside out, and handling this kind of nonsense from the other groups that I'll suddenly be engaging with. quote:You will start experiencing burnout at around the 3 month mark. Your partner will notice this before you do. Listen to him when he voices his concerns. Remind yourself this is temporary. Lockback posted:Also agree that there is significant risk here so your partner shouldn't leave their job. You'll just have to weather a storm but it's a great opportunity. Ha, ahaha, a good chunk of the personal life stress is that my partner's been working out-of-state, on night shift, with 60-73 hour work weeks for the past six months while staying with relatives. We're close enough to sometimes manage a day trip, but not much more than that. I suspect at least a third of the reason that he offered is that he's reaching his own breaking point. If he leaves the job in January he'll have hit his primary goal of finally knocking out all of the non-car debt he had before he met me, but he was planning on trying to stick it through another 3-4 months to pay off his car loan. He was also making noises about funding a kitchen remodel, but I'd much rather have him working more reasonable hours closer to home again.
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Nov 30, 2023 21:40
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I mean no one here can give life advice, but operate under the assumption that you are entering into a more risky place career wise and plan accordingly. The worst case scenario is this going down in flames and you unable to have any kind of escape route. So if thats your partner finding a job close to home or whatever, just don't assume the company will have your back on this.
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Nov 30, 2023 21:44
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Good news everyone, return to office starting 1/1/24! We're also happy to announce that we're opening two private offices in the bay for executives! We're looking forward more collaboration between our leaders. In other news, we're cancelling the free lunches. We know, we know, this is hard to "stomach" ~wink~ but we want to focus on rewarding hard work with increased compensation, not food. Except the private exec offices. Those will still be getting lunches. Also uhhhh there is no plan to increase compensation. And we're keeping the office open during the holiday, for collaboration! You're welcome!
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Nov 30, 2023 22:11
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tokenbrownguy posted:Good news everyone, return to office starting 1/1/24!  
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Nov 30, 2023 22:12
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I'm probably paraphrasing a bit, but this basically just happened.  *QA guy walks into the bathroom with someone. Starts washing hands* QA: "Um... not sure you can wear that into the area." Guy: "It doesn't come off." QA: "Hmm... I don't remember the procedure. Maybe Sundae knows?" Guy: "Sundae?" QA: "Yeah, he's the engineer for this area. Sundae sits over--" Sundae: "You summoned me?" QA: "Jesus christ!" *I open the bathroom stall door behind them.* Sundae: "Said my name into the mirror three times, didn't you? Here I am!" Also, I don't know if this is just White Guy Effect or not, but I've noticed that I can get poo poo done just by walking into the room and repeating what other people have already said. Somehow, it matters when I say it but not when my Chinese or Indian female direct reports say the same thing. This shouldn't be a magical power. 
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Nov 30, 2023 23:24
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Lockback posted:I mean no one here can give life advice, but operate under the assumption that you are entering into a more risky place career wise and plan accordingly. The worst case scenario is this going down in flames and you unable to have any kind of escape route. So if thats your partner finding a job close to home or whatever, just don't assume the company will have your back on this. Is there more of a risk here than I'm realizing? The way I see it, the possible outcomes, ranging from most favorable to least favorable, are:
 If it helps any, my annual pay adjustment and bonus will be shared with me in late February, so I should get a feel for which way the wind is blowing at that point, albeit two months in.
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Nov 30, 2023 23:40
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Sundae posted:Also, I don't know if this is just White Guy Effect or not, but I've noticed that I can get poo poo done just by walking into the room and repeating what other people have already said. Somehow, it matters when I say it but not when my Chinese or Indian female direct reports say the same thing. This shouldn't be a magical power. Yeah, it is. I try to be really mindful to give credit when I am repeating something someone else just said, but the combo of me being a tall white guy who knows how to project his voice is like +5 to authority.
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Nov 30, 2023 23:53
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I am almost certain they will not pat you on the back for a good try. There is real chance of them overloading you with work to the point where the job is no longer feasible for you to continue doing. There is a chance of number 3 happening, but instead of getting an extra bonus (lol) they decide you should be moved into some job where you're doing a bunch of stuff you don't want to be doing. You might do ok, but not good enough and a lot of places have a 1 strike and your out approach to leadership, where they essentially doubt your ability to do anything since you were given a chance to "join the club" and didn't pass. This might not result in a straight up firing but it may not be a place you want to spend time. They might decide this entire approach isn't working and blow up the team. You might not be getting a real promotion because they are just trying to buy some time. The fact that your in a hiring freeze means "Where can we cut to save" is an ongoing conversation. Are any of these more likely than you doing a decent job and getting the role? Probably not. But I am not making them up whole cloth. You are taking a risk, a risk I think you almost certainly should take, but its important to be mindful that you are entering a different world with different rules. Maybe your place is nurturing, most places aren't and a failed manager can sometimes go back to the same IC role, sometimes that's bumpier than anticipated. I'm not trying to scare you but I'd never suggest telling someone to make large life changes like having their partner leave the work force based on getting an interim title.
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Dec 1, 2023 00:02
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Please accept this in a positive way, but have you considered not giving a poo poo or working as hard when you become an interim manager? All the good (in the literal and also perceived performance sense) only gave a poo poo up to a certain point. Peter from office space etc. Edit: and don’t have your partner take a pay cut so you can spend more time at work without a raise. Closer to home is a good reason, but not overworking yourself Tnuctip fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 00:17
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Sundae posted:Also, I don't know if this is just White Guy Effect or not, but I've noticed that I can get poo poo done just by walking into the room and repeating what other people have already said. Somehow, it matters when I say it but not when my Chinese or Indian female direct reports say the same thing. This shouldn't be a magical power. Keep track of who this works on and ensure their complete and utter destruction at the earliest opportunity. We don't want 'em.
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Dec 1, 2023 00:32
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In my experience is works on basically everybody.
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Dec 1, 2023 00:44
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Lockback posted:Yeah, it is. I try to be really mindful to give credit when I am repeating something someone else just said, but the combo of me being a tall white guy who knows how to project his voice is like +5 to authority. White + tall + self-confidence really are the keys to unlimited career advancement. At that point you just need to decide if you want to spec athletics (CMO+) or becoming as big as a fridge (CTO).
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Dec 1, 2023 00:50
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I hope to defer my authority to anyone shorter, nonwhite or female just in the hopes they will say nice things about me when it is time to
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Dec 1, 2023 00:53
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Lockback posted:There is a chance of number 3 happening, but instead of getting an extra bonus (lol) they decide you should be moved into some job where you're doing a bunch of stuff you don't want to be doing. Yeah, I know it sounds hopelessly naive, but it did legitimately happen to me in the past few years after an absolute poo poo show where I had to borderline go to war with another department, savagely defending the integrity of my work and escalating until they backed down. Like, since February 2021, my employer has:
My main worry is the insane uptick in meetings I'll have to attend. In any given week he's in 3-4x the hours of meetings I'm in, and my brain likes to melt if I have to switch topics too many times in a single day or talk to lots of people I'm not familiar with. I might legitimately not be cut out for it. I was thinking I'd look into management if the company ever dropped the minimum number of direct reports back down into the 2-3 range, but this is going to be a trial by fire. quote:I'm not trying to scare you but I'd never suggest telling someone to make large life changes like having their partner leave the work force based on getting an interim title. Tnuctip posted:Edit: and don’t have your partner take a pay cut so you can spend more time at work without a raise. Closer to home is a good reason, but not overworking yourself Yeah, probably shouldn't have even brought it up because it's not something I plan on accepting. He spontaneously offered, but he's got a history of shortchanging himself to help others (although usually not to my benefit). I'm the one with the more stable career and higher pay and he thinks the world of me, so he doesn't see anything except options 1 or 2 being even a remote possibility. I'll have to tell him that having his income as a backup would be more reassuring to me than having him here 24/7.
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Dec 1, 2023 02:08
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Democratic Pirate posted:White + tall + self-confidence really are the keys to unlimited career advancement. At that point you just need to decide if you want to spec athletics (CMO+) or becoming as big as a fridge (CTO). Man I am really shooting my self in the foot working full remote. No one can tell I’m 6’2”. (For real I wish I could go back to the office, like, once in a while).
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Dec 1, 2023 03:15
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Sundae posted:I'm probably paraphrasing a bit, but this basically just happened. https://youtu.be/UXGcgqv4c8M?si=YQtOqQE7XNp0qUey
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Dec 1, 2023 03:41
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Awkward Davies posted:Man I am really shooting my self in the foot working full remote. No one can tell I’m 6’2”.
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Dec 1, 2023 04:16
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Lockback posted:Yeah, it is. I try to be really mindful to give credit when I am repeating something someone else just said, but the combo of me being a tall white guy who knows how to project his voice is like +5 to authority.  I never really sought promotion because it's not in line with my interests, but I am periodically made aware of how easy it would be because I'm tall, white, male, and can be loud while retaining dignity. Meritocracy is a lie.
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Dec 1, 2023 04:29
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Purplelizardwizard the key question for me is: why are your bosses making you an interim manager rather than just giving you the job? It sounds like you're doing great in general but the interim position sounds like they're stalling for time while looking for someone else. That being said, moving from IC to management can be a tough step to make and I would also go for it. I'd definitely ask why not the actual job, and also try and get some kind of commitment to a path and timing to the substantive position (while realising that is also meaningless).
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Dec 1, 2023 06:59
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Arquinsiel posted:Apparently people can tell if you are tall via webcam. My last employer informed me of this when I first met them in person. This was not my experience. I was hired for a new position in summer 2021 entirely through zoom, and then when we all first met I ended up being a solid foot taller than one of my two bosses to both of our surprises.
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Dec 1, 2023 10:32
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Sundae posted:Also, I don't know if this is just White Guy Effect or not, but I've noticed that I can get poo poo done just by walking into the room and repeating what other people have already said. Somehow, it matters when I say it but not when my Chinese or Indian female direct reports say the same thing. This shouldn't be a magical power. Jean-Paul Shartre posted:This was not my experience. I was hired for a new position in summer 2021 entirely through zoom, and then when we all first met I ended up being a solid foot taller than one of my two bosses to both of our surprises.
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Dec 1, 2023 11:56
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knox_harrington posted:Purplelizardwizard the key question for me is: why are your bosses making you an interim manager rather than just giving you the job? It sounds like you're doing great in general but the interim position sounds like they're stalling for time while looking for someone else. Proving you can do the job as interim is completely normal in my experience and can benefit both parties. If he can’t or doesn’t want to do the job he doesn’t have a demotion on record. It’s perfectly okay to prefer IC work, personally I wouldn’t want to be a manager at many big companies. The responses that the interim thing are some sort of trick when he’s currently team lead run totally counter to my experience where that’s how nearly all of the IC-> front line managers and IC->project managers did it.
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Dec 1, 2023 13:13
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I'm a 5'8" Asian woman and when there was a company wide meetup last year for my previous job, people who I hadn't met in person were really shocked and there was a definite shift. Turns out being the height of the average Dutch woman is a super power Me, I was shocked at how short some of my coworkers were, although of course all the leadership were nearing 6 foot
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Dec 1, 2023 13:24
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As a tall person let me tell you that I have banged my head significantly more than the average person, do not trust anything I have to say.
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Dec 1, 2023 14:11
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CarForumPoster posted:Proving you can do the job as interim is completely normal in my experience and can benefit both parties. If he can’t or doesn’t want to do the job he doesn’t have a demotion on record. It’s perfectly okay to prefer IC work, personally I wouldn’t want to be a manager at many big companies. I prefer an in-between title that can be backed out easier. "Lead/Supervisor/etc" but yeah, that part I am not terribly concerned about.
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Dec 1, 2023 15:45
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dpkg chopra posted:As a tall person let me tell you that I have banged my head significantly more than the average person, do not trust anything I have to say. Between the head banging, the knee scrunching on planes, the loss of sleep in small beds, the extreme wear and tear on our joints caused by constantly getting things down from high shelves for little old ladies, the mental fatigue from a life time of telling people whether not we play basketball we’re all messed up and not to be trusted.
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Dec 1, 2023 16:01
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Awkward Davies posted:Between the head banging, the knee scrunching on planes, the loss of sleep in small beds, the extreme wear and tear on our joints caused by constantly getting things down from high shelves for little old ladies, the mental fatigue from a life time of telling people whether not we play basketball we’re all messed up and not to be trusted. But the weather up there is nicer, right?
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Dec 1, 2023 16:08
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Don't forget neck damage from having to look down on everyone all the time
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Dec 1, 2023 16:11
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choosing between long enough and slim enough in shirts but almost never getting both
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Dec 1, 2023 16:19
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FAUXTON posted:choosing between long enough and slim enough in shirts but almost never getting both 
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Dec 1, 2023 16:22
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dpkg chopra posted:As a tall person let me tell you that I have banged my head significantly more than the average person, do not trust anything I have to say. I am the height of the average door frame so if I go thru without thinking on the up part of the stride I get smacked pretty good to the amusement of anyone nearby. It’s probably taken a few iq points off overall Also in my head the retort to “do you play basketball” is “no, do you play miniature golf?” But I never say it 
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Dec 1, 2023 16:54
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One coworker who looks below average height on camera turned out to have actually played forward on a college basketball team. Camera angles are wild.
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Dec 1, 2023 17:31
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All of this reminds me of one of my favourite jokes, out of MASH. Flagg: "what's your clearance, colonel?" Blake: "oh I go through the door with about an inch to spare."
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Dec 1, 2023 17:33
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Worse than not playing basketball is that I do play but just loving around in rec or whatever. So I have to choose either saying "No" or saying "Yes" and then explaining that I did not play in the Final Four.FAUXTON posted:choosing between long enough and slim enough in shirts but almost never getting both Just buy tall friend. Even my tshirts are all MT or LT now. I watch for clothing slickdeals and when an actual deal comes up on tall clothes I stock up.
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Dec 1, 2023 17:33
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