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Rinkles posted:Where does Windows even show the battery level? Task tray in bottom right. Also, in the devices screen in the settings app.
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Nov 30, 2023 15:21
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Kibner posted:Task tray in bottom right. Is that new? I never saw that.
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Nov 30, 2023 15:24
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you can also press the xbox button and it will show the battery percentage on a mini taskbar, took me years to figure that out
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Nov 30, 2023 15:33
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halokiller posted:you can also press the xbox button and it will show the battery percentage on a mini taskbar, took me years to figure that out Crysis put that poo poo in the HUD, what a game ahead of its time
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Nov 30, 2023 15:46
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Hey goon that wanted a small as gently caress mouse: https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-m4-wireless-mouse Like half the size of the GPX, 35g, $49. 
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Dec 1, 2023 01:18
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neat it's like the HSK except not ludicrously expensive
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Dec 1, 2023 01:23
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Neat the 4k polling one is in stock in white.
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Dec 1, 2023 06:33
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Humerus posted:Hey goon that wanted a small as gently caress mouse: Cool, thanks, will keep an eye out for it next time around. I'm pretty happy with the GPX now (actually prefer it over the smaller but heavier Asus) after getting used to the shape. Is 4000 hz a meaningful upgrade vs 1000?
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Dec 1, 2023 11:41
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PirateBob posted:Is 4000 hz a meaningful upgrade vs 1000? Doubtful. Maybe at 4k.
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Dec 1, 2023 14:35
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counterpoint: their 4khz dongle looks funny
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Dec 1, 2023 14:42
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Kibner posted:Doubtful. Maybe at 4k. Screen resolution and mouse polling rate aren't related at all. Polling rate and screen refresh rate might have some correlation (closer sync of movement to screen update), but 1000 hz already well faster than the fastest screen refresh.
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Dec 1, 2023 14:55
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Klyith posted:Screen resolution and mouse polling rate aren't related at all. Oh, whoops. I was reading that as dpi and not hz. 
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Dec 1, 2023 15:34
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PirateBob posted:Is 4000 hz a meaningful upgrade vs 1000? People will tell you based on theory that no, it isn't. Just watching a high speed video of a mouse cursor being moved at various polling rates will demonstrate that you can clearly observe significant improvements on 240 and 360hz displays up to at least 8000hz, and I expect there is some small but real and potentially meaningful benefit even at lower refresh rates.
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Dec 1, 2023 16:01
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K8.0 posted:People will tell you based on theory that no, it isn't. I can definitely tell the difference between 1000Hz and 2000Hz on my mouse but it's pretty minor and I assume most people wouldn't notice. Also I feel like Keychron's strategy is to just use the same internals while changing the mouse shape, which actually rocks
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Dec 1, 2023 16:18
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i would look at a mouse's tested input latency at reputable sites and completely ignore the polling hz: https://www.rtings.com/mouse/tests/control/latency https://www.rtings.com/mouse/tests/control/sensor-latency the polling hz should just be seen as a mechanism to reduce input lag. the smoothness of the mouse on high speed camera doesn't matter if some 1000 hz mouse has significantly better input lag. also, remember some games perform horribly with > 1000 hz polling. shaving 1-3ms is a very tiny factor overall in aiming and not something that should be described as "meaningful" unless you are looking for every single possible edge and have exhausted all of the low hanging fruit to improving your aim.
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Dec 1, 2023 16:35
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comedyblissoption posted:i would look at a mouse's tested input latency at reputable sites and completely ignore the polling hz: Despite this, I am kinda liking the design and specs of the Pwnage StormBreaker (but hate the name): https://pwnage.com/products/stormbreaker?variant=42194765545663
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Dec 1, 2023 19:35
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Kibner posted:Despite this, I am kinda liking the design and specs of the Pwnage StormBreaker (but hate the name): https://pwnage.com/products/stormbreaker?variant=42194765545663 Have 2 of em. My nacho custom is great. My blue one was a quality control nightmare. Customer support is "meh". Expect long delays and slow turn arounds. If you buy one now. Make sure its a recently restocked color. If you get an old shelved one like I did, theres a good chance you'll have QC issues. Also theres issues with the newest software and some people are bricking the dongles apparently? Idk. I'm back on old software and staying with 2k polling. I love the mouse. But don't buy magnesium unless you're ready to rip the thing apart and tinker. change my name posted:I can definitely tell the difference between 1000Hz and 2000Hz on my mouse but it's pretty minor and I assume most people wouldn't notice. Also I feel like Keychron's strategy is to just use the same internals while changing the mouse shape, which actually rocks Same. That jump I noticed. The 4k jump I can't tell the dif other than my battery getting murdered. I stay on 2k. I also only run 144hz so theres that too. Lots of that poo poo comes down to refresh/frame rate. comedyblissoption posted:
When you're min/maxing tho, thats a solid improvement. EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 20:24
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I do like tinkering as long as it isn’t a thing where I have to spend hours looking up confusing instructions or guides to do what should be simple things. I’m getting enough of that with my venture into learning professional networking stuff.
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Dec 1, 2023 20:42
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comedyblissoption posted:shaving 1-3ms is a very tiny factor overall in aiming and not something that should be described as "meaningful" unless you are looking for every single possible edge and have exhausted all of the low hanging fruit to improving your aim. I agree it's far from the only factor worth considering, well down the list, but OP was asking about a mouse that comes in 1k and 4k versions. In that case the 4k version is just extra performance unless you only care about games that freak out above 1k. Most people would see a far bigger benefit from simply turning up DPI and turning down sensitivity. People still playing on 800 DPI are holding themselves back. It's very significant IMO, go to 6400 DPI and 1/8 windows sens and you can feel the difference on the desktop, never mind in games. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 20:52
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K8.0 posted:
Its impossible to run anything higher than 800dpi for me and keep a 50cm or so 360 and keep it consistent across the board. Some games read raw DPI and there isn't poo poo you can do about it. Christ some games I have to dive down to 400. I used to run higher DPI and lower sensitivity other places and tbqh I can't feel an actual difference. I felt more moving from 1k polling to 2k polling than I ever did with DPI adjustments. DPI has been horse poo poo for a while. Its a marketing bullet point. Kibner posted:I do like tinkering as long as it isn’t a thing where I have to spend hours looking up confusing instructions or guides to do what should be simple things. I’m getting enough of that with my venture into learning professional networking stuff. Nah its a mouse. Most of the poo poo you'll tinker with are the mylar pads or dots for the plungers or whatever. Its nothing confusing you just have to be careful taking it apart so you don't yank out the ribbon cable for the thumb buttons.
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Dec 1, 2023 21:11
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EbolaIvory posted:DPI has been horse poo poo for a while. Its a marketing bullet point. CPI is not just useful for marketing, although numbers in the tens of thousands seem to be. Go look at the rtings sensor latency CPI graph for any mouse. Like any single synthetic test of something so complicated, their test is imperfect. On extremely quick and sharp movements the latency benefit will probably be lower than the numbers they show, but on stuff like adapting tracking movements the benefit can be larger as well. I would look to see if you can set lower sens through config editing. A lot of the time you can get more precise that way, and it makes running higher DPI more viable. Mostly though, a lot of developers need to be slapped around until they start building their input around people with sane real physical sensitivities and not whatever hypothetical insane person wants a 3mm 360 at 3200 DPI with the in-game slider maxed out.
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Dec 1, 2023 21:32
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oh yah totally. people can cut 20-40ms even with a good rig by just changing around some mouse/video settings if they've never optimized them before which is actually pretty significant for all levels of play.
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Dec 1, 2023 21:43
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K8.0 posted:
Not my first rodeo and to be clear I'm a min/maxing FPS game sweat. My entire setup is built around movement shooters and low sensitivity. Its impossible to run high DPI in some titles purely from the standpoint of being able to actually play the game. I have to dive down to like 400 for the sniper elite games if I remember correctly. This debate has been a thing forever. Low sensitivity players ain't running high DPI. We can't. TL:DR Of the entire debate. Its preference and a marketing bullet point for mouse companies. Me moving from 800 dpi to 1600 dpi isn't going to increase anything for me in a min/max scenario. Nor is moving up to some obnoxious advertised 16k whatever. The good thing about high DPI sensors though is at lower DPI they are more accurate than lower quality sensors at the same DPI. Seriously. I felt a bigger jump moving up in polling rates than I ever did with DPI. I used to be one of those psychopaths who ran 6k/8k DPI then dove everything down to get it "low enough" in a lot of titles. Straight up can't tell a difference between 800 and 8k outside of its hard as gently caress to get 8k dialed in. EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 21:48
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comedyblissoption posted:oh yah totally. people can cut 20-40ms even with a good rig by just changing around some mouse/video settings if they've never optimized them before which is actually pretty significant for all levels of play. Out of curiosity, what would those settings be?
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Dec 1, 2023 22:15
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if you're someone who's looked into it, it'll be pretty obvious. writing this all up since I'm gonna have to infodump a friend new to PC soon. these are the input lag reducing settings I recommend. all of the settings have actually had A/B input lag tests done by blurbusters, battlenonsense, etc. and not based on trust-me-bro superstition: code:https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/14 i condensed it down into these additional overriding settings for general normal power usage if you are trying to eliminate tearing: code:
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Dec 1, 2023 23:16
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you can think of dpi as setting the amount of evenly spaced dots per inch over your mousepad. if the spacing between dots is narrower because there are more of them, the faster your mouse will reach its next input and thus the lower the input latency. it's not that relevant for fast flicks, but for tracking motions (e.g. ~4 inches/second) it's dramatic under test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AoRfv9W110 comedyblissoption fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Dec 2, 2023 |
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Dec 2, 2023 00:02
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Thanks! That seemed to be mostly stuff I was already doing or aware of, so I wasn't missing out on anything. The only thing that wasn't mentioned in there was Enhanced Sync for AMD. I might have to look into that later since it does increase my PQ a lot on a monitor that doesn't support FreeSync. e: the propaganda article on it: https://community.amd.com/t5/gaming/reintroducing-amd-enhanced-sync/ba-p/544484 quote:With Enhanced Sync enabled, it allows the game to run without capping frames while also lowering the chance for screen tearing. To do so, when the monitor needs to sync with a new frame in-game, the most recently completed frame would be displayed on screen while also dropping older unneeded frames, which leads to improved responsiveness and reduced input lag as well. Kibner fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Dec 2, 2023 |
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Dec 2, 2023 00:04
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comedyblissoption posted:you can think of dpi as setting the amount of evenly spaced dots per inch over your mousepad. if the spacing between dots is narrower because there are more of them, the faster your mouse will reach its next input and thus the lower the input latency. That video and the charts in it, basically say 800dpi master race. Diminishing returns and all that. Like every chart for the most part shows that anything beyond 800 is absolutely within error range when it comes to latency. And thats with 1 mouse and 1 sensor and 1 dongle. Theres a reason a lot of pros stick with 800 folks. Theres a reason I went back down to it. You can SLIGHTLY argue 1600 or whatever but beyond that there isn't any actual gain and those gains at 1600 are within testing error margins and all that poo poo. Its like the whole EDPI debates and poo poo. Its useless fluff 99% of the time. EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Dec 2, 2023 |
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Dec 2, 2023 00:14
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Kibner posted:Thanks! That seemed to be mostly stuff I was already doing or aware of, so I wasn't missing out on anything. The only thing that wasn't mentioned in there was Enhanced Sync for AMD. I might have to look into that later since it does increase my PQ a lot on a monitor that doesn't support FreeSync. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L07t_mY2LEU
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Dec 2, 2023 00:21
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EbolaIvory posted:800dpi master race. Diminishing returns and all that. but I see it as like a free $0 input latency reduction for slow tracking tasks. it's just like a why not type thing. you can actually measure the input latency from dpi just like with a monitor refresh rate. at far distances trying to track a target at like 0.25 inches/second is common. this is 200 dots per second at 800 dpi, so that is 5ms of input latency. you can halve or quarter this by just bumping up the dpi. the slower the tracking the more dramatic the effect. edit: another thought I had is that higher dpi is more important the faster your effective sensitivity, since you are going to be physically moving the mouse slower when tracking targets. conversely, higher dpi is not as important for lower effective sensitivities since you are tracking much faster physically on the mousepad. comedyblissoption fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Dec 2, 2023 |
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Dec 2, 2023 00:28
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comedyblissoption posted:
Because its annoying as gently caress when you actually play games with your mouse and the game reads raw DPI with no option to read windows sensitivity so you have to go into your software and dive the poo poo down with however many applications that do that poo poo. Its really not uncommon sadly. Happens more with console ports than anything but its common enough in general. And having to jump through those hoops means its not free. Its also a fraction of a ms in most cases moving beyond 800dpi. And every mouse I own defaults 800dpi out the box. It wasn't until recently did I realize that chasing high DPI was foolish beyond 800dpi. Like look, I'm a min/max sweaty rear end fps gamer. If it actually was worth it, i'd be doing it. At least as far as FPS gaming and poo poo goes. comedyblissoption posted:
This starts falling into EDPI talk and EDPI isn't a thing. Higher DPI isn't as important as polling rates. Polling rates and higher dpi both have massive drop offs after certain points. DPI being 800, Polling rates being semi tied to your fps/refresh rate but after around 2k things start to drop off outside of edge case/extreme high end builds pushing insane framerates. comedyblissoption posted:
I don't halve my latency by going to 1600dpi. I have no idea where you're getting that math. Thats not how it works. No amount of moving up in DPI from 800 is going to make a 5ms latency 2.5ms. Now if you're saying I can halve it by like, moving beyond 1600. What DPI are you suggesting? Because the video we all just watched basically says theres no point beyond 800. Realistically. EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Dec 2, 2023 |
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Dec 2, 2023 00:38
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EbolaIvory posted:Now if you're saying I can halve it by like, moving beyond 1600. What DPI are you suggesting? Because the video we all just watched basically says theres no point beyond 800. Realistically. it's common to move the mouse physically much slower than that, so any input latency difference is going to be magnified. the input latency comes from the mouse having to physically move from 1 "dot" on the mousepad to the next "dot" for an input. at 800 dpi, there are 800 of these dots in an inch. if you increase the number of dots in this inch, the mouse has to physically move less to get to the next dot. the amount of input latency scales linearly with the speed of the mouse movement and the number of dots per inch.
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Dec 2, 2023 00:52
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comedyblissoption posted:
Beyond 800 DPI there isn't a point for latency. 1600 can be arguable in some cases simply because there is a small gain in upwards of 1ms depending on the device. Thats the end of it. Thats the ted talk. Its literally that simple. I think I'm gonna stop going back and forth because it feels like you're trying to mansplain DPI and we are way beyond the definition of DPI. EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Dec 2, 2023 |
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Dec 2, 2023 00:59
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i think we might actually agree. to clarify, to get to a specific point on the mousepad and see it reflected on the screen, there should be a 0ms input lag difference between 100 dpi and 25000 dpi. but to see a physical change in the mousepad physically represented on the screen as you move to that specific point? higher dpi will show physical changes sooner and at a faster rate on the screen. so it's weird. dpi changes input lag and it also doesn't change input lag.
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Dec 2, 2023 02:33
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In virtually all cases there is zero difference because you are moving more than one DPI unit per update. So lets say I move my mouse 6 inches left over 0.2 seconds, and it's got 500hz poll rate. That means we have 100 updates. In an update from the middle of the movement, the 800 DPI mouse says "I moved 48 units left". The 3200 DPI mouse says "I moved 192 units left".* If sensitivity in the OS / game were set exactly the same, these two updates would produce the exact same movement of cursor / aim point. The 3200 DPI mouse does not report 4 times as fast, because it is limited by poll rate. Therefore it can't have better latency. It does report with 4 times as much accuracy, but for that to be of any use you need to have under 30 microns of movement control (you do not). Assuming the lower DPI is not a degenerate case -- so low that it misses updates entirely -- there is no latency difference. There is one exception: the first update. Optical mice have a minimum threshold for movement, because otherwise they'd never go idle / your PC would never power save. Even a standard DPI mouse is too sensitive to tiny disturbances to not do this. That is why this is why this test: comedyblissoption posted:it's not that relevant for fast flicks, but for tracking motions (e.g. ~4 inches/second) it's dramatic under test: * 6 inches * DPI / 100 updates ... except the actual data packet won't be 48 or 192, afaik mouse reports still use scaling based on the old PS2 standard of 1 unit = 1mm
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Dec 2, 2023 05:37
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that's a good explanation. actually input lag is probably a bad term then here. a better description is higher dpi is inserting more mouse inputs to provide a smoother visual stream for the mouse movement, and this effect becomes more pronounced the slower your physical mouse movement in inches per second. you are seeing certain types of motions sooner in a sense because you are seeing inputs that would otherwise not exist, but it's not really input lag reduction in the way getting higher fps on a monitor reduces input lag.
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Dec 2, 2023 06:15
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comedyblissoption posted:you are seeing certain types of motions sooner in a sense because you are seeing inputs that would otherwise not exist Theoretically. But why don't you try it. Set your mouse down to 800 DPI, or even 400. Don't change the OS sensitivity or anything (so this will be easy to undo). Using your normal grip, can you move your mouse such that the cursor does not move a pixel? How tiny is that movement? Do you think that movements that fine rally matter for sweaty gaming? A mouse sensor has vastly more resolution than you have control. High DPI has a problem of its own: mouse movement sent to the PC have a range of -127 to +127, so if you move fast enough to hit the upper bound your tracking is inaccurate. This was a real problem back in the day, but high polling rate largely solves it. (2x as many reports = each report covers half the distance = have to move twice as fast to max out the number) All this poo poo is measurable, but I'd bet large amounts of money that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 800 and 3200 DPI on 2 machines with settings adjusted to produce equal cursor / aim sensitivity.
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Dec 2, 2023 16:22
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you'd ultimately need a blind experiment to verify if people can tell the difference. you may very well be right it's actually imperceptible and just perception bias, but anecdotally higher dpi feels smoother. the math does suggest even 800 dpi could cause perceptible issues. if you were to move say 1/8th an inch per second of tracking, that's 100 quantized dots of updates per second at 800 dpi. the static scenery and visual camera motion as you are moving the mouse then only renders the angle changes of your motion at 100 fps. i suspect those subpixels do matter to render a panning scene more smoothly. game engines like counter-strike will quantize the internal angle headings you are allowed to turn to minimum steps based on your sensitivity, and these angles can be "between" pixels. higher dpi lets you quantize to a higher fidelity, and so a panning scene can render these in-betweens that you would not get on a lower dpi. the higher the resolution the more this can matter. this would be one of those < 0.1% mattering factors, of course.
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Dec 2, 2023 17:13
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Klyith posted:
If you set the windows desktop and game stuff to the exact cm per 360 nobody could tell a difference.
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Dec 2, 2023 19:21
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My understanding is it's more of a function of having enough dpi to cover your sensitivity, resolution and fov. If you will experience will pixel skipping or not is the most tangible feeling. Which in practice isn't a huge deal unless you run a low fov, a high sensitivity and a high resolution.
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Dec 2, 2023 21:41
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