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BUUNNI posted:Really weird that the NYPD keeps sending their officers to Israel to learn so much about their vaunted technology. I’m sure it’s no big deal. They sincerely refer to themselves as the 7th largest standing army in the world. Their intentions are very clear.
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Dec 1, 2023 17:38
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PurpleXVI posted:Strongly depends on what you define as "stolen Palestinian land." If you look at the 1967 borders and say "this is a fair and equitable distribution of land, Israel deserves this." then sure, the Kibbutzes are not on stolen Palestinian land, and we would proceed to greatly disagree on the matter. Also several of them are in the occupied West Bank, which makes it even more clear cut. Some jewish settlements are where they were since the second temple. 1967 did not start Jewish villages. Neither did 1947. Neither did Haganah in the 1920s. There’s Jewish settlements that stretch back to early 1800, and some that go as far back as the literal second Temple. A lot of land has been obtained by combat and seizure, and it’s created untold suffering and moral injustices. But that does not mean that every part that has jews living in it is somehow illegitimate or stolen. There were 200,000 jews before a major wave of zionists even arrived there. The end of 1800s had 5 percent of Palestine’s residents identifying as jewish. This part of history of Palestine and Israel is referred to as the Old Yishuv, as contrast to Zionism. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 17:45
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Bit of a derail from the current discussion, so apologies there, but I've struck out trying to find info on this myself. There's an oft repeated line among those opposed to a ceasefire to the effect that "there was a ceasefire before October 7th." I'm curious: was there actually an official state of non-hostility between Hamas and Israel at the time, or does this formulation flow simply from the fact that there were not ongoing hostilities immediately before Octover 7th?
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Dec 1, 2023 20:28
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BUUNNI posted:Do apartheid genocidal states have a right to exist? Yes the United States has a right to exist.
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Dec 1, 2023 21:42
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psydude posted:
Yo this is a fair point that honestly hadn't really occurred to me because it's (thankfully) just not something I've ever had to deal with. Alchenar posted:This. There were civilian eyewitnesses, an interview with that tanker talking about firing without iding targets, and that Haaretz source stating that an Apache fired on Hamas and civilians. All of which you dismissed out of hand.
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Dec 1, 2023 23:38
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:There were civilian eyewitnesses, an interview with that tanker talking about firing without iding targets, and that Haaretz source stating that an Apache fired on Hamas and civilians. All of which you dismissed out of hand. No, once again I've read all those sources and you are significantly upreading what they actually said.
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Dec 2, 2023 00:09
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Cum QRF made the CNN front page today: https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/01/middleeast/israeli-families-sperm-retrieval-intl-cmd/index.html
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Dec 2, 2023 01:43
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Ok enough discussion of whether or not the IDF gunship fired on the crowd, until more evidence comes out either way.
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Dec 2, 2023 02:59
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Can we still talk about the zionist gene seed harvester squadrons
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Dec 2, 2023 03:10
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Dec 2, 2023 04:47
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BUUNNI posted:Can we still talk about the zionist gene seed harvester squadrons I get annoyed when y’all talk about anything else.
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Dec 2, 2023 11:17
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Guys the Zionist corpse cum extractors are gonna have a hard time with this one https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1730985788182065430
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Dec 2, 2023 18:06
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My brain now has a flag/check for "reread any cum/milking or necrophilia joke or pun you want to make for potential antisemitic misinterpretation" and I really, really dislike the world we continue to live in.
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Dec 2, 2023 18:24
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With the context of why they feel the need to harvest genetic diversity, its not that funny.
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Dec 2, 2023 18:34
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Grip it and rip it posted:With the context of why they feel the need to harvest genetic diversity, its not that funny. With service members in particular it's a stupid way to do it. As observed upthread, if the government of Israel really cared then they could give male service members the option to make a deposit early in their term. Heck, make it compulsory if it's truly viewed as an existential threat to your state. I have a hard time believing that the Israeli government just now determined that inbreeding of their population was a big problem just in the last month so having people going out and scavenging gonads from battlefields in late 2023 comes across as mere sensationalism.
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Dec 2, 2023 19:00
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Grip it and rip it posted:With the context of why they feel the need to harvest genetic diversity, its not that funny. How is harvesting the sperm of only dead male soldiers going to lead to more genetic diversity
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Dec 2, 2023 19:49
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Maybe the easiest way to get generic diversity is to not have anti-miscegenation laws and welcome immigrants from populations outside your narrow conception of "acceptable" DNA. Nah, why not just march in the streets with tiki torches chanting "Arabs will not replace us" and collect dead soldiers' pure balls?
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Dec 2, 2023 20:09
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Cugel the Clever posted:Maybe the easiest way to get generic diversity is to not have anti-miscegenation laws and welcome immigrants from populations outside your narrow conception of "acceptable" DNA. Didn't they also like literally sterilize Ethiopian Jews lol
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Dec 2, 2023 20:24
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BUUNNI posted:Didn't they also like literally sterilize Ethiopian Jews lol Some of the Ethiopian Jews got non-consensual Depo-Provera shots but no sterilization afaik.
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Dec 2, 2023 20:31
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BUUNNI posted:Didn't they also like literally sterilize Ethiopian Jews lol https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel They absolutely did! And so much more! quote:More than 50,000 Ethiopian Jews have immigrated to Israel in the past decade. The fast-growing community has struggled against bias. In 1996, thousands rioted when it was discovered that the Israeli health ministry had destroyed all stocks of blood donated by Ethiopians on the grounds that it might be contaminated with HIV.
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Dec 2, 2023 20:34
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Cugel the Clever posted:Maybe the easiest way to get generic diversity is to not have anti-miscegenation laws and welcome immigrants from populations outside your narrow conception of "acceptable" DNA.
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Dec 2, 2023 20:46
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PurpleXVI posted:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel That is obviously very uncool but I think you need to look up what "sterilisation" means. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 2, 2023 20:54
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We really quibbling about how bad Israel's racism is now? Gonna Kissinger on about "no, no, what Israel is doing to the non white jews isn't bad because it could be worse," huh? "Oh they're not sterilizing the black jews, they're just trying to forcibly control their breeding, unknowingly decreasing their fertility, and making it official policy that they can't donate blood because they're unclean." What the gently caress. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 2, 2023 20:59
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Fivemarks posted:We really quibbling about how bad Israel's racism is now? Gonna Kissinger on about "no, no, what Israel is doing to the non white jews isn't bad because it could be worse," huh? "Oh they're not sterilizing the black jews, they're just trying to forcibly control their breeding, unknowingly decreasing their fertility, and making it official policy that they can't donate blood because they're unclean." Or maybe there's no need to inflate how bad a crime is when simply acknowledging what actually happened is bad enough?
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Dec 2, 2023 21:02
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A.o.D. posted:Or maybe there's no need to inflate how bad a crime is when simply acknowledging what actually happened is bad enough? Unknowingly forcing women to take a Contraceptive when they aren't aware of the side effects counts as some hosed up bad poo poo. I'm opposed to the attempt to say that it's not as bad by quibbling on precise definitions. This is hosed up, and is absolutely a sign of "Israel is an Ethnostate, where even Jews who aren't the right kind of jews aren't welcome." I mean, though, this isn't any different, and isn't as bad, as the poo poo that the US has done to its black population. I don't think Israel's tested syphillis on its Ethiopian population.
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Dec 2, 2023 21:07
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Fivemarks posted:I mean, though, this isn't any different, and isn't as bad, as the poo poo that the US has done to its black population. I don't think Israel's tested syphillis on its Ethiopian population. What's this have to do with anything?
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Dec 2, 2023 21:09
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knox_harrington posted:That is obviously very uncool but I think you need to look up what "sterilisation" means. I would argue that the difference between "a number of procedures which would have continued indefinitely if no one had raised the alarm" and "a single procedure of permanent duration" is vanishingly small.
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Dec 2, 2023 21:13
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Fivemarks posted:Unknowingly forcing women to take a Contraceptive when they aren't aware of the side effects counts as some hosed up bad poo poo. I'm opposed to the attempt to say that it's not as bad by quibbling on precise definitions. This is hosed up, and is absolutely a sign of "Israel is an Ethnostate, where even Jews who aren't the right kind of jews aren't welcome." Israel is an ethnostate, and they are attempting a genocide of the Palestinians at the moment. I'm very comfortable with that statement. The treatment of the African jewish population was an abomination, but a knowing effort to sterilize a population is also a form of genocide. I'm not quite at the point where I'm willing to endorse a statement that the Israeli state attempted genocide on another Jewish population.
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Dec 2, 2023 21:18
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A.o.D. posted:Israel is an ethnostate, and they are attempting a genocide of the Palestinians at the moment. I'm very comfortable with that statement. The treatment of the African jewish population was an abomination, but a knowing effort to sterilize a population is also a form of genocide. I'm not quite at the point where I'm willing to endorse a statement that the Israeli state attempted genocide on another Jewish population. Oh its not Genocide, they just didn't want to have any more of "them" in their Israel. It's like how its not genocide to not want any of "Them" to move into your nice gated community and drive down property values. Edit: wait, that was sarcasm, and not entirely directed at you. I wouldn't call "Israel's right wing doesn't want black people in their country, and might take steps to make sure that the right of return doesn't apply to Jews from the wrong places, and might force people from those countries to take contraceptives unknowingly" genocide, but it's also not not some terrible hosed up poo poo, we can agree on. Stultus Maximus posted:What's this have to do with anything? I mean, the US is Israel's biggest benefactor, I wouldn't be surprised if they learned and repeated the poo poo the US did. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Fivemarks fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Dec 2, 2023 |
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Dec 2, 2023 21:20
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Fivemarks posted:We really quibbling about how bad Israel's racism is now? Gonna Kissinger on about "no, no, what Israel is doing to the non white jews isn't bad because it could be worse," huh? "Oh they're not sterilizing the black jews, they're just trying to forcibly control their breeding, unknowingly decreasing their fertility, and making it official policy that they can't donate blood because they're unclean." Come now. Details are actually important if you're trying to understand something rather than just score points or demonstrate loyalty. Israel does enough bad poo poo to go around, we might as well be as accurate as we can about it.
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Dec 2, 2023 21:25
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Fivemarks posted:Unknowingly forcing women to take a Contraceptive It's literally ethnic cleansing, statutorily, open and shut.
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Dec 2, 2023 21:36
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Potato Salad posted:It's literally ethnic cleansing, statutorily, open and shut. I mean, yes. It's Ethnic Cleansing- Israel's government, or at least large right wing elements of it and ultraorthodox Jews, did not want to let non-white and african jewish populations return to Israel and tried to argue that the Right of Return didn't apply to them. When they were forced to back down and allow limited migration of these people to Israel, they engaged in some spiteful ethnic cleansing, as well as some good ol' racism, because its not just that Israel is a Jewish Ethnostate- it's an Ethnostate for European and MIddle Eastern Jewish populations only.
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Dec 2, 2023 21:42
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PurpleXVI posted:I would argue that the difference between "a number of procedures which would have continued indefinitely if no one had raised the alarm" and "a single procedure of permanent duration" is vanishingly small. You could, but you would be wrong.
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Dec 2, 2023 21:58
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knox_harrington posted:You could, but you would be wrong. so is chemical castration not sterilization because it's not permanent? they're giving their population drugs against their will in order to prevent births, it's sterilization.
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Dec 2, 2023 22:32
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My Spirit Otter posted:so is chemical castration not sterilization because it's not permanent? they're giving their population drugs against their will in order to prevent births, it's sterilization. It has to be permanent. Come on you can't be this dumb.
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Dec 2, 2023 22:42
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please use the correct and accepted terms for the horrors inflicted tia
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Dec 2, 2023 22:52
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knox_harrington posted:It has to be permanent. Come on you can't be this dumb. The only test with respect to ethnic cleansing here is whether births are being forcibly prevented on the basis of ethnicity.
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Dec 2, 2023 23:03
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Potato Salad posted:The only test with respect to ethnic cleansing here is whether births are being forcibly prevented on the basis of ethnicity. But the word in question is sterilization which is specifically a permanent procedure. They were given contraceptives to prevent births which is ethnic cleansing. They were not sterilized to prevent births which is also a form of ethnic cleansing. Words matter and using the wrong words gives people who want to deny ethnic cleansing room to maneuver.
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Dec 2, 2023 23:17
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel https://www.jstor.org/stable/265548...an_tab_contents yeah uh, I don't think Israel was undertaking a campaign of ethnic cleansing against ethiopian jews. Have yall read any of the reporting associated with that claim or just repeating stuff you've seen on this site?
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Dec 2, 2023 23:22
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It's essential to be incredibly accurate about whether Hamas was beheading children or just adults, but for Israel's offences "close enough" is just fine.
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Dec 2, 2023 23:23
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