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namlosh posted:So I'd like to upgrade it as easily and cheaply as possible. I figure even though she's using like 25% of the available hard drive space, I'll get a 1TB so it'll be an easy clone. I think the biggest pro for the M.2 is the easier cloning, no need to get an USB-SATA adapter. But the manual is a bit confusing. It says it's probably missing the shield, maybe also the M.2 screw.
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Dec 4, 2023 01:28
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Klyith posted:For a Mom PC it doesn't matter at all. If the 2.5" looks like it'll be easier to replace than it would be to get access to the M.2 port, just do that. redeyes posted:Thats a 'fine' drive. Another decent one is the WD black series (avoid blues). Saukkis posted:I think the biggest pro for the M.2 is the easier cloning, no need to get an USB-SATA adapter. But the manual is a bit confusing. It says it's probably missing the shield, maybe also the M.2 screw. you all rock. thanks so much for the quick response. I've got a usb-sata adapter I can use to do the clone, so I'll just stick with 2.5" thanks again!
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Dec 4, 2023 02:10
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I installed my new M.2 drive and it was quite an ordeal trying to install it without taking off my GPU (which was blocked by the CPU cooler). I eventually got it installed using a nail clipper as a weight and using my fingers to drop in the screw. Whew! I tested the speeds using Crystal Disk Mark and it seemed to be just as advertised. This was the first time I ever checked my drives and I tested my boot drive which uses my 4 year old M.2 NVME. The read speeds seemed fine at around 3000mb/s~ but my write speeds were really slow at around 350-450mb/s. I have no idea if they were always like this from the start. Never really noticed I guess. 
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Dec 4, 2023 04:02
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It would be ten times easier to get NVMe drives in if my screws were actually magnetic-capable.
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Dec 4, 2023 04:35
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poe meater posted:This was the first time I ever checked my drives and I tested my boot drive which uses my 4 year old M.2 NVME. The read speeds seemed fine at around 3000mb/s~ but my write speeds were really slow at around 350-450mb/s. SSDs get slower after use / being full of data. Random performance and writes are most affected, large sequential reads least. This is not permanent: you can restore like-new performance by wiping the drive with a secure erase. It's just overhead from fragmentation, write amplification, and maybe less space available for SLC cache depending on drive type. Good reviews attempt to capture this by filling drives 50% full before running tests, but there's no substitute for a couple years of real use for crapping up a drive.
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Dec 4, 2023 05:25
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Are Mushkin Element ssd drives ok to use as backup drives? They're really cheap here, and I've already got all nvme slots filled
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Dec 6, 2023 10:17
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KinkyJohn posted:Are Mushkin Element ssd drives ok to use as backup drives? They're really cheap here, and I've already got all nvme slots filled Not sure what they are -- on Mushkin's site they say Element is a NVMe drive. Regardless, if it's super cheap (and not just a sale) it's almost certainly QLC and probably slow QLC at that. Possibly also dramless (way worse for sata than nvme because they can't borrow some system memory). What do you mean by "backup drive"? For actual backups HDDs are still generally better. If I did want a SSD for backups, it would be to dump large images quickly. Cheap QLC drives are not what I'd pick for that since they get real slow when you run out of cache. But if you just mean a drive for extra space to dump low-priority crap on, then yeah it'd work.
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Dec 6, 2023 14:37
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Klyith posted:Possibly also dramless (way worse for sata than nvme because they can't borrow some system memory). speaking of which i just learned the hard way that it's pretty hard to find an M.2 SATA drive with DRAM now, at least in my market, most of the ol' reliables like the MX500 and 870 EVO aren't made in M.2 form anymore and WD nerfed the blue the WD red is still good but it's pricey
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Dec 6, 2023 15:17
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And apparently the MX500’s DRAM got downgraded
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Dec 6, 2023 15:19
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repiv posted:speaking of which i just learned the hard way that it's pretty hard to find an M.2 SATA drive M.2 sata is a dying format, it's rare on current-gen motherboards to have a m.2 slot capable of sata. I would not buy one unless I had a specific need for it, and in that case I'd probably look at ebay. Probably plenty of people who bought them back when they were more of a thing, and are finding they're now worthless. Rinkles posted:And apparently the MX500’s DRAM got downgraded They cut it down to 512mb max, versus the old standard of 1GB ram per TB of drive space. But TBQH that's not a huge deal. Controllers have gotten smarter at doing more with less DRAM -- take for example the steady rise in performance of DRAMless NVMe drives, which AFAIK never use more than 128MB of system ram. MX500 still a perfectly cromulent drive.
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Dec 6, 2023 16:32
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Klyith posted:M.2 sata is a dying format, it's rare on current-gen motherboards to have a m.2 slot capable of sata. yeah i know, this was for a retrofit of an older machine that only has M.2 SATA
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Dec 6, 2023 17:13
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I'm trying to upgrade my SFF PC from a 2 TB NVMe to a 4 TB one. Since the ITX mainboard only has a single M.2 slot, in previous upgrades I used an enclosure to attach the new bigger disk, cloned everything over then switched the disks. Even though this worked fine with a different 4 TB disk (WD) in a different PC, apparently the enclosure doesn't work with this particular combination of ancient garbage bridge chip (Jmicron JMS583), mainboard USB 3.0 (AMD B450) and disk (a Firecuda 530). Is there an easy way to "flip" the process and eg. boot into a recovery environment that would let me clone the current disk, attached through the external enclosure, to the empty new disk installed in the NVMe slot? I'm trying to get a different enclosure but all the immediately available ones generally use the same bridge chip so I'm not expecting that would help.
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Dec 6, 2023 18:21
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orcane posted:I'm trying to upgrade my SFF PC from a 2 TB NVMe to a 4 TB one. Since the ITX mainboard only has a single M.2 slot, in previous upgrades I used an enclosure to attach the new bigger disk, cloned everything over then switched the disks. Sure. Most user-friendly way would be to grab the free trail for Macrium and make the bootable WinPE "rescue" media on a USB stick. Macrium's rescue program can do all the basic partition cloning & editing stuff, and I'm pretty sure the WinPE environment will see the USB storage no problem. You could also use a clonezilla USB boot for a much more nerdy experience.
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Dec 6, 2023 18:35
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I should have tried that first because I think this Firecuda 530 just died in a different enclosure with an ASmedia chip while trying to clone the old disk to it. It lasted less than 2 minutes before the controller was reset and since then the disk is unresponsive and will just freeze computer management or Macrium Reflect if attached. 
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Dec 12, 2023 21:51
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i had a 6tb spinner doing local back-ups on my gaming computer but I never had to use the backups after like 5 years so I pulled it out last week... and then last night, I got a Storage Spaces error on my 2x2TB MX500 array and it lost like 100GB of data lol. non-critical data but still sucks to lose it. reminder to never skimp on backups, even for SSDs with low failure rates.
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Dec 12, 2023 22:06
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As the holidays approach I'm back to thinking about finishing a NAS build that's been in progress for the past 6 years or so... now I have it back in my head to go trade getting big-rear end drives (15.. 30 TB) enterprise NVMe instead of striping spinny disks. Things like the Micron 6500 or other big enterprise drives intended for write seldom, read often. I have some EPYC parts, but I don't know if I really want to commit to the power consumption of a 7443P running 24/7 when I think about how truly mild my needs are. And I think NVMe drives are about parity or cheaper than SAS drives. 1. Feels like buying a tri-mode HBA / something like that is the best way for me to get the required number of NVMe lanes on a platform that is not an EPYC; I can run an undervolted / stable APU instead. Don't need full bandwidth, so a HBA sitting on a x16 3.0 / 4.0 link seems fine... 2. Is there anyone besides Icy Dock that makes bays / mini-backplanes for U.2 or U.3 drives? I don't want to deal with a SFF-xxxx mess.
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Dec 16, 2023 21:48
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I’m not too familiar with channel prices but it looks like you can get 2 8TB TLC drives for the price of a 16TB QLC drive if you can manage that I was assuming the p5316 would crater now that p5336 is out but those prices are still high. If you can hilariously manage an E1.L in your setup you can get a 16TB p5336 for just under a grand With the micron and solidigm nvme drives you can also force them to a lower power state if you want to save power at the cost of performance. I think both let you go down from 25W to around 10W WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Dec 16, 2023 |
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Dec 16, 2023 22:00
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WhyteRyce posted:I’m not too familiar with channel prices but it looks like you can get 2 8TB TLC drives for the price of a 16TB QLC drive if you can manage that I imagine going E1.L means picking up some rackmount chassis. Not sure what case I would put these in (yet)... I have a Node 804 from the old planned build, but that's more of a 3.5" / spinning HDD box. The lower power thing is interesting to me; the highest IOPS these will see is during a scrub or Plex indexing media or something like that. I just can afford to spend a bit right now, and solid-state vs. spinning platters appeals to me. I need to crawl down the rabbit hole of RAID configs for NVMe... I take it -Z1/-Z2 as if doing spinning disks is not the most appropriate solution?
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Dec 16, 2023 22:26
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E1.L is the same physical connector as E1.S so if you don’t mind ugly rear end macgyver rigs you can probably find some cabling adapter solutions. Word of warning, those e1.s to u.2 adapters you can find online only work if there is no heatsink on the drive Another word of warning, e1.l drives are taller so it probably won’t fit in an actual proper e1.s enclosure At some point I hope p5316s flood the market. They really aren’t bad for Plex drives, even with the hilariously large indirection size WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Dec 17, 2023 |
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Dec 17, 2023 02:29
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WhyteRyce posted:E1.L is the same physical connector as E1.S so if you don’t mind ugly rear end macgyver rigs you can probably find some cabling adapter solutions. Word of warning, those e1.s to u.2 adapters you can find online only work if there is no heatsink on the drive I'll keep an eye on the pricing; going to get the spinny disk NAS up and running first. Can always demote that machine to backup duty once P5316s drop in price. Not sure what price to be looking for though; https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/15-34tb-pcie-gen4-nvme-ssds-1k.41191/ this thread suggests the 15.36 TB is actually the sweet spot when you think about cooling and such. I have some 7.68TB WD SN640s I was going to put together in the EPYC box, but now I'm not so sure... need to think about how much I want to put in this NAS vs. others. I got a pair of Micron 9400s off eBay for a decent price that I'll use in the 2x 2.5" slots in the Node 804 as a RAID 1 of solid state storage for now.
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Dec 17, 2023 21:19
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SSD life time expectancy: When it comes to TBW (Terabytes written), does it matter at all whether you write a ton of small files vs big files?
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Dec 22, 2023 09:53
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PirateBob posted:SSD life time expectancy: When it comes to TBW (Terabytes written), does it matter at all whether you write a ton of small files vs big files? Not really, but also technically yes? As a matter of just writing data to the drive, no, data is data. If you wrote one 100 GB file and 100 GB of 1kb files to an empty drive both would say 100gb written. In practice, lots of small files will probably make for more write amplification from writes being smaller than the page and block size. I don't think this is worth any mental bandwidth in the least -- SSD endurance is not worth worry in general. And this would not be invisible. The total writes display on the drive includes extra writes the drive has to do internally. (Though as a note, it's the size of writes not the size of file. If you have multi-GB database files and you do lots of 1kb modifications, it would have the same effect. This is why enterprise drives with way higher endurance exist.)
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Dec 22, 2023 14:04
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Klyith posted:Not really, but also technically yes? Aight,  More of an academic question.
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Dec 22, 2023 14:17
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Since this is an academic question: Depends on what you mean by small files. Most drives that I'm aware of have a 4KB indirection unit, so each location in the mapping table corresponds to a 4KB sized location. If you're writing 4KB or higher, things line up nicely. If for some reason you're doing 512B file writes, that's a lot of read-modify-write going on which is obviously bad for WAF. Probably rare that this happens in most cases. But on a more extreme end of that, the Solidigm P5316 QLC drive has a hilarious 64KB indirection unit. You can see the potential problems you get with that. It's honestly an ok drive for what it is but please stick to large file writes or you get bad performance and worse endurance. Aligning to your IU size is key, but enterprise high capacity drives are probably the only drives that are the odd duck here so don't panic over your client drive. How you write also matters. If you look at the high capacity low endurance Solidigm QLC and Micron 6500 drives, you see that they start breaking out the drive writes per day rating between random and sequential. These values can differ greatly (like 3x in the 6500 case) so they do it to highlight the best way to write to the drive and sell you on the concept they aren't as fragile as you'd think WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Dec 22, 2023 |
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Dec 22, 2023 17:05
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Is now a good time to buy another SSD (2tb nvme m2 probably) even though I don't need to use it yet? (don't have a need for more storage, and don't have another m2 slot atm, but will build a new pc sometime in 2024) One of the ssd memory producers, I forget which, said they wanted to increase prices by 20% each quarter in the coming year.  I've seen a price increase already on the ssd I bought last time. But then there's something about a new generation coming soon or something?
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Dec 22, 2023 19:31
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PirateBob posted:Is now a good time to buy another SSD (2tb nvme m2 probably) even though I don't need to use it yet? (don't have a need for more storage, and don't have another m2 slot atm, but will build a new pc sometime in 2024) Pcie gen 5 drives are out but have a high premium. They're not worth it, gen 4 drives are still faster than any desktop app needs and that's not gonna change any time soon. I kinda doubt prices will keep going up like Samsung claims... That seemed like investor bait. So yes it's a good time to buy a drive if you need one. It's generally not a good use of money to buy PC parts ahead of when you need them, but if you know you'll need it in the next 6 months they probably won't be cheaper.
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Dec 22, 2023 20:04
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4TB PCIe 3.0 TLC drives have been hitting ~$150-175 if you can tolerate "slower" transfers. 4TB 4.0 drives have been flirting with $200-250, and a few weeks back if you jumped through a fair amount of hoops, people got a 4TB 990 Pro for ~$170 something.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:01
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Good eBay luck -- pair of used Micron 7.68TB 5400 PRO. Both 1700 POH, 11 POC and ~1.5 TB written. Must have been in someone's lab / dev environment?
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Dec 23, 2023 20:59
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I ordered a SN850X on sale recently and I'm now reading that it only supports OPAL and not eDrive for encryption. To my understanding this means I can't use hardware encryption with Bitlocker and my only options are - use OPAL with sedutil, but then I need to enter my password during boot each time and I also have to disable secureboot, which would be less than optimal - use Bitlocker software encryption, which I want to avoid since I do have maxed out CPU usage + large sequential reads/writes on this machine pretty regularly Am I missing another option? What I've been doing until now is to just use the Windows file system level encryption for my personal files and that's ok for me, but it seems pretty ridiculous to not just use the free encryption capability of a SSD in TYOOL 2024. IIRC it wasn't a problem a couple of years ago. I guess Microsoft dropped OPAL support at some point? Why is everything getting shittier all the time?
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Dec 29, 2023 20:21
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Didn't Microsoft decide to stop trusting SSD manufacturers and only use software encryption unless explicitly told otherwise? You might as well not care which methods are supported.
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Dec 29, 2023 20:41
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GABA ghoul posted:Why is everything getting shittier all the time? 
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Dec 29, 2023 22:41
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Geemer posted:Didn't Microsoft decide to stop trusting SSD manufacturers and only use software encryption unless explicitly told otherwise? Yeah, I read that some manufacturers had a "cryptography is my passion" moment recently, but you can still use Bitlocker with hardware encryption. Microsoft just makes you work for it now, if you want to turn it on. And that would be more than enough for me, but for some reason OPAL drives are not allowed. It's all incredibly stupid.
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Dec 29, 2023 23:54
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isn't "software" encryption basically free anyway since AES-NI became a thing, it's still offloaded to dedicated hardware, just hardware on the CPU instead of the SSD controller
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Dec 30, 2023 00:25
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I'm not sure how much it affects CPU performance, but it definitely seems to have a significant effect on IO performance https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-software-bitlocker-slows-performance Random reads/writes are the most affected
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Dec 30, 2023 00:46
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Desuwa posted:SN850x flaky temperature sensor It took close enough to 6 months, but my SN850x's broken temperature sensor shut it down again, Critical Composite Temperature Time is now 2, but Warning Temperature Time is still 0, so that screams broken sensor to me. Plus I don't think it could legitimately reach such high temps without something inside it shorting out. So I guess I am finally going to replace it with the Sabrent I bought back then. I was hoping it was just a one time fluke, and it's certainly rare with 2 instances in 10 months of pretty heavy daily usage, but it's just not worth the anxiety. As far as drive issues go this one is pretty tame, but I had been pretty lucky to not have an SSD die or run into major issues on me yet.
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Dec 30, 2023 16:54
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repiv posted:isn't "software" encryption basically free anyway since AES-NI became a thing, it's still offloaded to dedicated hardware, just hardware on the CPU instead of the SSD controller It's this. More like firmware encryption, tied to the CPU. GABA ghoul posted:Microsoft just makes you work for it now, if you want to turn it on. That's for sure. I set all this up myself a few months ago. You need: - Windows Pro (I had Home  )- UEFI enabled (I was on legacy )- OS drive in GPT (I was on MBR, because legacy bios )- TPM 2.0 (yay, my CPU actually had this already) Once all that is running, you also need to fire up Group Policy Editor and enable some stuff, if you want to use the actual secure methods (PIN or hardware keys).
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Dec 30, 2023 18:10
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Trying to figure out some stuff, I disabled my SATA controller today and it didn't make one iota of a difference in functionality. I feel like back then, when I ditched my floppy drive and later the Bluray drive.
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Dec 31, 2023 16:10
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I have an unorthodox workstation, and am looking at a reasonably ambitious upgrade to the sorta stodgy Samsung 870 256GB SATA SSD/4TB 3.5” Seagate HDD I’ve been running for the past couple of years. Bear with me. I have a Raptor Computing Blackbird motherboard with an IBM Power9 CPU. In addition to a PCIe x16 slot (occupied by a Radeon RX 6600), it features a PCIe x8 slot. There are four SATA ports onboard but no NVMe, and the board does not support link bifurcation. What I’m thinking about (and which is verified compatible with the board) is a HighPoint Rocket 1204 controller board, into which I’ll pop a 512GB Western Digital SN770 I’ve had laying around nearly unused as the OS drive, and then grab a second 2TB drive for supplementary storage. That configuration would allow both drives to run at full speed; dropping in drives beyond that would halve the speed of the drives to stay within the limits of 8 PCIe lanes, so that’s something I’ll defer until later if I approach it again. What solid, zippy NVMe 2TB drive should I obtain to that end? If you have a better idea for my storage layout than 512GB/2TB, please let me know. Thanks, goons, and happy New Year. Hasturtium fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 22:16
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Hasturtium posted:I have an unorthodox workstation, and am looking at a reasonably ambitious upgrade to the sorta stodgy Samsung 870 256GB SATA SSD/4TB 3.5” Seagate HDD I’ve been running for the past couple of years. Bear with me. I think this is an Evilution set if you’re still trying Final Doomer.
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Dec 31, 2023 22:25
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Hasturtium posted:I have an unorthodox workstation, and am looking at a reasonably ambitious upgrade to the sorta stodgy Samsung 870 256GB SATA SSD/4TB 3.5” Seagate HDD I’ve been running for the past couple of years. Bear with me. Up in the PC Build thread, the Crucial P5 Plus is a bit of a go-to recommendation, as it has great performance and a cache, and is often a bit less expensive than a Samsung or WD drive.
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Jan 1, 2024 00:02
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