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it's time for the scoffer letter -- a detailed list of all your perceived shortcomings
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Dec 3, 2023 02:38
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CarForumPoster posted:if you give candidates actual feedback 1 in 3 throw a temper tantrum, no matter how politely they ask which is why I stopped giving feedback. this is probably a lot to do with the fact that so few companies provide feedback. so the one shop that DOES provide it gets a laser focus of all the frustration the candidate is feeling. so it’s a perverse incentive
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Dec 3, 2023 02:41
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I got feedback but it wasn’t anything really actionable. I also felt shorted cause one of the people on the hiring team wasn’t in the interview so others got one extra voice on their side. It’s real bad. I get recruiters who don’t realize I was laid off mostly so that’s fun to explain. Still moving forward with stuff but definitely a pay cut on these positions. Emergency fund is still good but longer this goes on harder it will be.
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Dec 5, 2023 00:50
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raminasi posted:what about that feedback do you think could possibly be actionable? it's not like you're going to go through the same interview process with the same people again, and even if you somehow could, why would you trust anything they'd write? yup. i got a reject last night and the recruiter offered to set up a call to discuss feedback. between their take home and interview loop i already invested twelve hours of my life into their process. i’m not going to waste another half hour of both of our time on a call where i’m not going to get anything actionable for the next company i interview with. also if you’re not willing to put it in writing then it’s likely based on vibes you don’t want to get sued over and not iron clad objective assessment anyway kitten smoothie fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Dec 5, 2023 |
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Dec 5, 2023 16:10
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kitten smoothie posted:yup. i got a reject last night and the recruiter offered to set up a call to discuss feedback. I've had people put vibes in writing as feedback. Not actionable in any way.
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Dec 5, 2023 16:23
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i asked for, and received, genuine honest interview feedback exactly once in my life startups often ask folks in their network to interview, this was one of those, she'd already given her feedback to the company and didn't owe me poo poo, impulsively I shot off an email asking for feedback devastating. wrecked my whole weekend, wouldn't do it again
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Dec 6, 2023 02:56
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“We read your posts”
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Dec 6, 2023 03:13
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please provide your feedback in the form of a friar's club roast thank you
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Dec 6, 2023 04:00
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well-read undead posted:please provide your feedback in the form of a friar's club roast thank you Did you see this guys take home code? I tell ya it’s modern art! I stared and stared and could never figure out what it was supposed to mean! I tell ya this thing was so bad it didn’t have bugs, it was an infestation! if it were a movie it’d be a horror film. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Dec 6, 2023 |
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Dec 6, 2023 04:50
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https://archive.is/HxCVVBoomberg posted:Some of that negativity may stem from how demanding assessments are becoming, even for early-career positions. All Sasha Desenclos was looking for was a role as a customer success manager after she was laid off from a gifting platform in January. The Atlanta-based 27 year old was struck when a short-term rental company sent her a five-part assignment this summer. It included a role-play exercise where she had to imagine she was a CEO, as well as tasks such as creating a client’s email campaign and recording herself on a theoretical customer Zoom call. Apparently the long rear end takehome is spreading to other industries
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Dec 6, 2023 05:32
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koolkal posted:https://archive.is/HxCVV its always been a thing everywhere, its just gradually being normalized
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Dec 6, 2023 07:02
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I just finished my master's degree (also have an undergrad CS) while working full-time (master's program was part-time) and have ~7 YOE with over 3 of that being with a big tech co all doing cloud distributed web systems stuff. I feel like the job market right now is all senior level positions, which wouldn't necessarily be a problem if I wanted to continue doing cloud service type work, but if I switch into something like a job working on a compiler/programming language, do I basically need to try and apply to positions as if I'm a new grad? I have a decent amount of master's coursework in compiler-related topics, so basically I'm trying to frame my resume to show that I've got industry experience and here's the A, B, and C projects I lead that resulted in $X in revenue, Y improvement in SLA, and $Z in resource savings, so I know how to manage my work independently (including mentoring juniors/interns) and complete a project successfully, and also I have recent technical training and knowledge in more relevant stuff for a compiler job, I just haven't done it as a job yet. Does anyone in the thread have any experience/advice for switching to a different type of software role? Is it basically just a matter of continuously applying until something sticks (which is always "yes", but even more than usual)?
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Jan 6, 2024 02:58
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also I'd like to make more money and do less work tia
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Jan 6, 2024 03:01
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does your current job have a compiler or language team that you could transfer to? internal transfer is probably easier to build a rapport with the target team and get them to take a chance on you. I moved from SWE to security a number of years ago and started off by doing an internal interview and transfer to one of the appsec teams which I had met from reaching out and getting involved with internal security-related forums. forum enthusiast fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 6, 2024 04:13
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I did apply to an internal position at my current level and was rejected immediately after the screener, but I also kind of want to move out of working at a big tech company for now anyway (this statement is only 50% cope). I'm actually also really interested in moving to blue team or consulting security roles. I also have a decent amount of masters coursework in security topics as well, and I take all of the security-related work on my team that I can get. I really enjoy teaching junior engineers about threat modeling and also specific vulnerabilities we need to address. I actually sent an email to one of my professors from my masters program basically asking what I asked in this thread (this person primarily works as an independent consultant and just teaches that course on the side), and he provided a bunch of good info on conferences and local groups I can network with. So basically my plan right now is to just grind applications and network with local groups as much as I can. Doesn't seem like there's really anything more to it other than just applying and interviewing until something sticks.
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Jan 7, 2024 04:13
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ADINSX posted:“We read your posts” lol
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Jan 7, 2024 04:58
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wrt security stuff, it used to be trivially easy to present at infosec conferences. you just do something remotely novel - anything - and talk about it. write a honeypot, float it out there for a couple months, that's a conference presentation. automate a well-known attack to make it dead simple to operate, that's a conference presentation. and so on. there seem to be 100x more people interested in the field now than there were a few years ago when i was more invested in community goings-on, so the competition might be stiffer now.
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Jan 7, 2024 08:36
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this mf said stiff
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Jan 7, 2024 08:42
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Achmed Jones posted:wrt security stuff, it used to be trivially easy to present at infosec conferences. you just do something remotely novel - anything - and talk about it. write a honeypot, float it out there for a couple months, that's a conference presentation. automate a well-known attack to make it dead simple to operate, that's a conference presentation. and so on. yeah agreed it feels like a lot more folks getting involved and the barrier to vuln research has never been lower. you dont even need a shady old copy of ida anymore to start pulling things apart. that being said, good security and senior+ especially are always hard to find. swe -> security synergizes well and gives you the flexibility to do full swe, swe security, or full seceng. could be an interesting route to explore if compilers/plang design dont pan out. ed: also security communities tend to be surprisingly interconnected, so even something smaller and local like bsides is a good avenue forum enthusiast fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Jan 7, 2024 |
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Jan 7, 2024 10:38
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ThePeavstenator posted:but if I switch into something like a job working on a compiler/programming language, do I basically need to try and apply to positions as if I'm a new grad? [...] Does anyone in the thread have any experience/advice for switching to a different type of software role? Is it basically just a matter of continuously applying until something sticks (which is always "yes", but even more than usual)? as a datapoint, back in the day, I got onto a language runtimes team at $OLDJOB via both via an internal transfer and parlaying my MSc. thesis work, but I think I probably needed both those things in order to make the jump happen (prior "he is not a total idiot" recommendations from my old team from the former, and the ability to talk about binary patching and SIB offsets in x86 instruction selection from the latter) one thing that I will say, contrary to my usual "agree with rotor vis a vis open source stuff" philosophy, is that pushing patches up to a real compiler is a disproportionally good way to get noticed - a few years ago I was working with a particular language for a project and found its ergonomics pretty awkward, so I made some PRs to improve error reporting and the LSP server and later got an email from one of the devs (whose full-time job is working on the compiler) saying "hi, we're in the same city, can we take you for lunch and learn more about your background" (I wasn't looking for a job at the time so I didn't pursue interviewing) Dijkstracula fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jan 7, 2024 |
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Jan 7, 2024 19:17
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rotor works deep in corporate enterprise blub land, and compiler work is never that even when firmly ensconced in a corporate enterprise (because oss is table stakes)
bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jan 7, 2024 |
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Jan 7, 2024 19:36
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bob dobbs is dead posted:rotor works deep in corporate enterprise blub land
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Jan 7, 2024 20:27
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Dijkstracula posted:blotor t 
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Jan 8, 2024 02:17
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anyway theres lots of compiler work done at my work, its just always done to inappropriately solve a problem by someone desperate to actually use their CS education, managed by someone too junior to recognize resume-driven development when they see it.
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Jan 8, 2024 02:20
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Dijkstracula posted:blotor he goes by throtor now
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Jan 8, 2024 11:00
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Is there any red flag outright to very flat org structures? I'm interviewing at an R&D joint that sounds incredibly flat, where "You may be asked to work on something very different or outside your area of expertise because we all wear many hats, but saying 'no' is always allowed," and "work is determined by proposals from all members of the team" AFAICT they sound like they believe very strongly in some sort of "converging to local optima per person leads to a global optimum of output" organization, which sounds like it would work well until you get someone who doesn't pull their weight on the team (for any number of reasons) Also there's always work that nobody wants to do, but it still has to get done, so I don't believe "saying no is always allowed" is true in any meaningful sense when asked to do work
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Jan 11, 2024 16:22
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Valve's been doing that for a while and they're famously ineffective and toxic.
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Jan 11, 2024 16:26
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Its a Rolex posted:Is there any red flag outright to very flat org structures? I've never worked someplace like this, but twice I've reported directly to the vp of engineering and that was always worse than having a buffer manager in between
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Jan 11, 2024 16:33
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I've yet to see a "flat org" that wasn't derived from some authority saying "I would be a manager but want to keep pushing code, namaste"
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Jan 11, 2024 16:33
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Its a Rolex posted:Is there any red flag outright to very flat org structures? I'm interviewing at an R&D joint that sounds incredibly flat, where "You may be asked to work on something very different or outside your area of expertise because we all wear many hats, but saying 'no' is always allowed," and "work is determined by proposals from all members of the team" I think you touched on some good points already. I would try to determine how they make decisions internally. For example, which decisions can you make as an individual? As a subset of the group? Are there any that a consensus or vote of the entire group? Is there someone that is seen as an implicit BDFL / decision maker / person who blesses things? How long does it take to reach a conclusion on different decisions? How do you surface criticisms in the group? How do you resolve conflicts? Non-hierarchical orgs can be good places to work but they do require a lot more self-governance from its constituents, and can suffer from more severe failure states if those constituents are uninterested in investing in the org's health or don't have the time to participate in that governance If you join a "flat org" and don't have a clear idea of how you can influence the kind of work the org takes on (or the kind of work the org should flat out refuse to do, separate from "scut work that needs to get done to keep the org from collapsing") then it's not really a flat org so much as an inadequately managed one corona familiar fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Jan 11, 2024 |
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Jan 11, 2024 16:44
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Its a Rolex posted:Is there any red flag outright to very flat org structures? I'm interviewing at an R&D joint that sounds incredibly flat, where "You may be asked to work on something very different or outside your area of expertise because we all wear many hats, but saying 'no' is always allowed," and "work is determined by proposals from all members of the team" A "flat" organization has no hierarchy the same way that schoolchildren have no hierarchy. It's still there, it's just non-obvious and unofficial.
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Jan 11, 2024 16:53
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raminasi posted:A "flat" organization has no hierarchy the same way that schoolchildren have no hierarchy. It's still there, it's just non-obvious and unofficial. agreed. i think a good distinction to make is: is there a trustworthy process for making decisions as a member of the group, or is there a shadow power structure at play fwiw the former is pretty rare in most orgs corona familiar fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jan 11, 2024 |
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Jan 11, 2024 16:56
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this is what you post after that https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
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Jan 11, 2024 16:58
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Its a Rolex posted:AFAICT they sound like they believe very strongly in some sort of "converging to local optima per person leads to a global optimum of output" organization it has always been wild to me that programmers believe this when there is so much evidence in their workday that it does not
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Jan 11, 2024 17:27
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corona familiar posted:I think you touched on some good points already. I would try to determine how they make decisions internally. For example, which decisions can you make as an individual? As a subset of the group? Are there any that a consensus or vote of the entire group? Is there someone that is seen as an implicit BDFL / decision maker / person who blesses things? How long does it take to reach a conclusion on different decisions? How do you surface criticisms in the group? How do you resolve conflicts? This is very helpful, I have a couple more calls left and want to ask these sorts of cultural/environmental questions so I know what I'm looking at. I should have a final wrapup call with the CEO and I think answers to these questions will help frame how that conversation goes. There's lots of "this is R&D so how do I get paid" questions as well. Given that they're very technically driven, understanding the trajectory of the organization as a whole is very important
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Jan 11, 2024 17:57
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ultrafilter posted:Valve's been doing that for a while and they're famously ineffective and toxic. i was trying to remember the famously libertarian toxic workplace and it was this
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Jan 11, 2024 17:58
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it will really depend on how well you get along with them. Really flat orgs are basically just orgs with hidden structure, as everyone else has said, and if you're in the Kool Kidz Klub that can be a real advantage. If you're not, it can be a huge liability. Just depends is all.
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Jan 11, 2024 18:09
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is valve famously toxic? I know they're famously ineffective but i hadnt heard of anything more toxic than regular.
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Jan 11, 2024 18:09
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rotor posted:is valve famously toxic? I know they're famously ineffective but i hadnt heard of anything more toxic than regular. I thought people really loved working at valve in the past.
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Jan 11, 2024 18:22
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rotor posted:is valve famously toxic? I know they're famously ineffective but i hadnt heard of anything more toxic than regular. Yeah they are allegedly good to work for but having accidentally turned their half life updater into an infinite money machine sort of takes away any extrinsic motivation to make new games.
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Jan 11, 2024 18:30
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