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I've heard a theory that our Heath that's part of Limbus might not be the main Heathcliff known in Wuthering Heights but in fact his son Linton using his father's lastname or maybe Hareton Earnshaw who regarded Heathcliff as his true father despite Heath intentionally making Hareton a servant boy who couldn't get an education. This theory is brought up cause there's two Cathy/Catherines in Wuthering Heights. The elder one who Heathcliff loved when young who is mostly known as Catherine and the daughter of the elder who Heath marries to his son (and son figure Hareton after Linton dies) most commonly called Cathy. Not sure how likely this theory is since I don't think Linton or Hareton ever really go out on a journey like Heath does and the stretch of either of them going by the name Heathcliff is a bit much. But I do think it would make an interesting chapter with daddy Heathcliff being an abusive monster of a father but still having maybe a core of sympathy for our Heath that the chapter can end on.
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Dec 5, 2023 03:42
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NotteBoy97 posted:I've heard a theory that our Heath that's part of Limbus might not be the main Heathcliff known in Wuthering Heights but in fact his son Linton using his father's lastname or maybe Hareton Earnshaw who regarded Heathcliff as his true father despite Heath intentionally making Hareton a servant boy who couldn't get an education. (Hareton is also never married off to Cathy Jr, they do fall in love but Heathcliff would have never allowed them to marry bc that'd give Cathy Jr the potential to legally leave the situation where she's trapped with Heathcliff as her legal caretaker. They probably do eventually marry after Heathcliff dies but it's not in the book.) EDIT: The fact that Project Moon dealt with the fact that Heathcliff canonically has no last name (or no first name, depending on how you look at it, he has a singular name) by making his initials HC for Heath Cliff is really funny to me, btw. I'd have expected them to do HH for Heathcliff Heathcliff but no.
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Dec 5, 2023 04:35
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Lord_Magmar posted:Meursault is probably post story but it's hard to tell. Meursault being post-story would be weird since at the end of the book, he end getting a death penalty for a murder he committed because the sun was too hot. If he was post-book in Limbus, he would have Taboo Hunter doing his rear end or the Head looking to kill him and well, he wouldn't last long even with Dante power clock. It would still make sense for him to be pre-book since his personal EGO is "Chain of Other" and in the book, he is pretty much a yes man. Maybe he'll get an updated EGO representing the crowd hating him? Yinlock posted:Haven't seen the story but I don't think Meursault in particular is easy to offend, so he's probably following some protocol to the letter. The Fingers like pretending they're very civilized and orderly and not at all fragile-egoed children so there's probably some kind of solid rules that nobody but Meursault would care about. The only time he get mad in the book is at the end, during the climax when the priest bother him too much about God and whatnot. You would have to question Meursault multiple time and try to coax an anwser out of him for him to be mad (He was also in prison in the book so maybe that's a factor?)
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Dec 5, 2023 06:23
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The main reason I say post book is his EGO portrays him being imprisoned and judged, and he mentions killing his mother (which I am taking to mean they're combining Meursault's crime with the death of his mother for reasons). Edit: Speaking of, Motherhood/Mother Figures is a bit of a theme in Limbus overall. Between Hermann, Meursault's Mother, Ryoshu and Outis and Faust all potentially being mothers, Ahab being somewhat a mother/matriarchal figure Ishmael aspired to be like (and also Gregor's future mother in law), N Corp Faust's vibes with N Corp Sinclair (compared to the more standard horror romance of Kromer and Sinclair), Hong Lu's probably nightmarish matriarchal grandmother, Carmen the Mother of Distortions/Abnormalities also narrating the mirror stories and calling all the Sinners Children. Alfonso and her predecessor fit into this too, Alfonos as the wicked false step mother and the prior one as a loving caring true mother. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Dec 5, 2023 |
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Dec 5, 2023 06:31
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t3isukone posted:That's a valid reading but I also think that it might also be to remember Queequeg, because Queequeg loved her hair. It's definitely a big bit of both. Ishmael grows her hair to remember Queequeg, but grows to look closer to Ahab. This signifies that even the one worthwhile thing she developed during her time as a whaler (her relationship with Queequeg, and to an extend the crew in general) gets spoiled and used as fuel to her single-minded and destructive obsession with revenge towards Ahab. After all, had she not grown such a close bond with her & the rest of the crew, would Ishmael have gone down such a route?
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Dec 5, 2023 07:42
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the most in-character thing Heathcliff has is his big stupid bat with REVENGE written on it, canon Heathcliff would own like 7 of those
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Dec 5, 2023 10:25
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Lord_Magmar posted:Gregor probably has the least connection to his actual origin story that we've seen so far (the metamorphosis in that story leaves the character completely helpless/inhuman). Canto 2 takes some big liberties with Crime and Punishment as well. I don't know what, if anything, Sonya has in common with his book counterpart, and Rodya's reasons for her guilt are pretty different from Raskolnikov's.
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Dec 5, 2023 11:02
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Oh poo poo looking again at the Sinner Order theory made me realize Don gets Canto 7, the one after Heath. I'm glad she'll get the spotlight soon-ish (by Summer that is). I am kinda wondering what districts we shall visit. For now we've pretty much gone to close Districts (D->J->K->U and now T given the Christmas event and the fact T looks British af) and the District is usually related a bit to the Sinner. So Canto 7 will be in S? The thing is, Mersault should be Canto 11 if they keep the pattern and his for sure will be on District N, but unless I'm wrong and Canto 7 is going back to J or they actually use Warp train/use Districts just for events it's impossible to go from S to N in 4 Cantos
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Dec 5, 2023 11:55
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If it's D J K U T... DJ... KUT... M is next, then A, then N. I can't believe they're a fan of obscure youtube remix channels, but more power to 'em.
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Dec 5, 2023 12:36
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We could cross over J to get back to D between Heathcliff and Don Quixotes Cantos. We don't have much knowledge of Don Quixote's past in general, but I also feel like we wouldn't get that close to the Head this early unless we're being set up for a huge failure before the double digit Cantos begin. D (7) -> E (8) -> F (9) -> N (10) is possible, but I think we're more likely to go up around the Eastern side of the city along the outer districts.
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Dec 5, 2023 12:39
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Alternatively the sections we "skip" over will be covered by .5 stories.
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Dec 5, 2023 14:24
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There is also possibility that the Canto simply... won't be situated in the district relevant to the Sinners backstory, but in the district where the Sinner encounters people/events that are relevant to them. For example, Yi Sang had no real relation to K Corp or their district, it was just a place where he met Dongrang and Dongbaek. Same with Rodion.
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Dec 5, 2023 14:52
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Also I, uh, don't imagine we'll have a reason to even go to N Corp's district, since they've almost certainly already plundered their L Corp branch. At least, not during Inferno while gathering the branches is still our main goal.
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Dec 5, 2023 14:54
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L.U.I.G.I posted:Meursault being post-story would be weird since at the end of the book, he end getting a death penalty for a murder he committed because the sun was too hot. If he was post-book in Limbus, he would have Taboo Hunter doing his rear end or the Head looking to kill him and well, he wouldn't last long even with Dante power clock. It would still make sense for him to be pre-book since his personal EGO is "Chain of Other" and in the book, he is pretty much a yes man. Maybe he'll get an updated EGO representing the crowd hating him? Counterpoint, while we're talking about The Stranger: If this is pre-murder, why is Meursault in Limbus Company in the first place? Before the murder, he's just an autistic guy who passively enables everyone else in his life. The City probably has a lot of those. Even if Limbus knew he was important, they wouldn't have any leverage and the only reason Meursault would join is if N Corp actively told him to join. I could see him being at the point in his story when he's in jail before trial/execution and Limbus is effectively a work release program, especially since that means you can have the argument with the priest be part of his canto, but I can't imagine how Meursault being pre-murder would make sense. (Also, the key plot point of The Stranger is him murdering someone for no reason, and that feels like such a flaccid plot beat to have when he would have spent months on a murder hobo bus by the time we get to his canto.) Lurks With Wolves fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Dec 5, 2023 |
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Dec 5, 2023 15:17
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Lurks With Wolves posted:Counterpoint, while we're talking about The Stranger: If this is pre-murder, why is Meursault in Limbus Company in the first place? Before the murder, he's just an autistic guy who passively enables everyone else in his life. The City probably has a lot of those. Even if Limbus knew he was important, they wouldn't have any leverage and the only reason Meursault would join is if N Corp actively told him to join. I could see him being at the point in his story when he's in jail before trial/execution and Limbus is effectively a work release program, especially since that means you can have the argument with the priest be part of his canto, but I can't imagine how Meursault being pre-murder would make sense. Counter-counter-argument: Why wouldn't he be in Limbus Company? Like you said, the guy is passively enables everyone in his life. It would make sense if Faust just came around, ask Meursault to join Limbus Company and gave a unch of benefit in doing so. I mean, the guy nearly marries Marie because she asked him to. Also, why have a trial in the City when you can just kill someone and be over with? Doesn't have to be murder. As we have seen with Gregor and other character, they aren't 1:1 interpretation of their character and murder was taboo/bad at the time of the release of the book. PM just have to convert this crime into something else and voilà, you can have a Canto on Meursault.
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Dec 5, 2023 16:16
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This is probably my last response because I'm getting a bit self conscious about the number of big spoiler blocks about old novels in a row, but one more probably won't hurt. One: "Why would they put Meursault on trial?" Why do the Middle have a literal book of grudges instead of just loosely directed murder towards people who wronged them? Why didn't T Corp's time cops immediately raid the League? Exactly how cheap life is in the City depends on what the story needs it to be at the time, and the culture of each area is ultimately just based on what would be cool for the story. Ultimately, "why would they give Meursault a trial in the past" has the same answer as "why would they give Meursault a trial after he murdered a man for no reason at some point in Limbus' story". Because it's an iconic part of his story, and him not having a trial is like Heathcliff not having a lovely noble family he loathes or Emil Sinclair not having a fundamental truth of the world that he slowly learns. Why include the character if we're never going to see the fireworks factory in some form? Two: That's honestly a good point, there's so many things besides murder he could have done for no good reason. However, you end up walking a fine line when he's doing weirder/worse crimes. Meursault kills a guy for no reason before Limbus begins: life is cheap in the City, but you can see how it'd lead to him no longer being a normal guy with a normal corp job. Meursault kills a guy for no reason while in Limbus Company: it's a bit anticlimactic as a moment because it's no worse than anything Ishmael or Don have done during an episode, but there's also no reason to really stop him from continuing to be in the party. Meursault shoves a child into the Torment Nexus for no reason before Limbus begins: holy poo poo, you can really see how it'd lead to him no longer being a normal guy with a normal corp job. Meursault shoves a child into the Torment Nexus for no reason while in Limbus Company: it now feels loving weird to include him in my party or roll for him on future banners, because he did something really hosed up when I thought I knew him better than that. They could pull it off, and honestly if they went for it I'd applaud them for doing something that potentially inflammatory, but I don't think they will.
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Dec 5, 2023 17:11
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Also, we know what Meursault probably did. He says it in his intro youtube video. "I killed mother today, or was it yesterday."
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Dec 5, 2023 18:08
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Solitair posted:Canto 2 takes some big liberties with Crime and Punishment as well. I don't know what, if anything, Sonya has in common with his book counterpart, and Rodya's reasons for her guilt are pretty different from Raskolnikov's. Like. I don't get the impression Rodya particularly regrets the actual act of murder she committed, but the consequences of it. But I guess it'd be hard to fully roll with the idea that taking a life is going to intrinsically gently caress someone up when the Sinners had to feed a bunch of punks to the bus before they started hitting enough branch offices to get decent fuel storage. I mean, Project Moon definitely rolls with the idea that taking lives intrinsically damages the killer, given how much of a theme in Library of Ruina it is that Angela's murder fishing scheme is intrinsically hosed up and that Roland carries around a lot of damage from how he's had to compartmentalize to survive in the City while taking a bunch of lives. But while Rodya might carry around damage from the murder, especially if it was the first time she killed someone like that, the focus is very much on her trauma from the aftermath.
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Dec 5, 2023 18:20
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I watched his trailer promotion and I retract everything that I've said. Post Book. But him killing his mother is weird since she died of old age/illness. Maybe he just said he did to avoid having to deal with people?
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Dec 5, 2023 22:10
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L.U.I.G.I posted:I watched his trailer promotion and I retract everything that I've said. Post Book. Reminder Mr. Salt has seen a person turn into a Distortion before and iirc killed one. While this could had just been a random encounter for Mersault it could be his mother turned into a Distortion and he killed her either cause she was going to kill him or he decided it was most optimal for all involved if he killed his Distorted mother or maybe some other possible options.
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Dec 6, 2023 00:31
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Maybe someone just told him to accept the blame for it and he did. There was some kind of scheme and he was set up to be the fall guy because he wouldn't complain, no matter what.
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Dec 6, 2023 00:37
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NotteBoy97 posted:Reminder Mr. Salt has seen a person turn into a Distortion before and iirc killed one. While this could had just been a random encounter for Mersault it could be his mother turned into a Distortion and he killed her either cause she was going to kill him or he decided it was most optimal for all involved if he killed his Distorted mother or maybe some other possible options. While I still don't have any idea on what Meursault's crime actually was, I definitely don't think it's this. I've seen this theory around and I just feel that even with the "I killed my mother", it still doesn't sync up with the book or the character we've seen in-game so far. It just seems too...normal? Like, if your mother turns into a monster and you kill her in self-defense, that's not something that fits with the plot of The Stranger and that wouldn't lead to his mentions of people condemning him en masse in the trailer. Like, even with N Corp's funky morals, that doesn't make sense.
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Dec 6, 2023 05:27
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t3isukone posted:While I still don't have any idea on what Meursault's crime actually was, I definitely don't think it's this. I've seen this theory around and I just feel that even with the "I killed my mother", it still doesn't sync up with the book or the character we've seen in-game so far. It just seems too...normal? Like, if your mother turns into a monster and you kill her in self-defense, that's not something that fits with the plot of The Stranger and that wouldn't lead to his mentions of people condemning him en masse in the trailer. Like, even with N Corp's funky morals, that doesn't make sense. So, I don't think it'd necessarily be a case of Distortion, because unless her body reverted after you'd think it'd be pretty... easy for him to show people why he did what he did, but I do think whatever his crime was it's going to be his behavior that shocked people more than what he actually did.
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Dec 6, 2023 05:47
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PetraCore posted:I do think it could be something like he had definite reasons to kill his mother that make total sense in context but because he's Meursault he never actually defends himself properly. Like, isn't one of the things in the Stranger that he only shoots and kills the person he does because he's half-delirious from heatstroke and because he knows/thinks either that person or someone closely related to them stabbed someone earlier and he'd have reason to stab Meursault, too? I haven't been able to read it yet, but I thought part of the point of the book is that a decent defense lawyer could build a case for why it wasn't actually first degree murder and if he was fairly and objectively sentenced it wouldn't be a death sentence even if he did absolutely kill someone, but because he's Meursault (aka such a weirdo) everyone pre-emptively decides he's a lot more dangerous and inhuman than he actually is and basically sentences him to death for his behavior, not his actual crime.
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Dec 6, 2023 06:17
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PetraCore posted:I do think it could be something like he had definite reasons to kill his mother that make total sense in context but because he's Meursault he never actually defends himself properly. Like, isn't one of the things in the Stranger that he only shoots and kills the person he does because he's half-delirious from heatstroke and because he knows/thinks either that person or someone closely related to them stabbed someone earlier and he'd have reason to stab Meursault, too? I haven't been able to read it yet, but I thought part of the point of the book is that a decent defense lawyer could build a case for why it wasn't actually first degree murder and if he was fairly and objectively sentenced it wouldn't be a death sentence even if he did absolutely kill someone, but because he's Meursault (aka such a weirdo) everyone pre-emptively decides he's a lot more dangerous and inhuman than he actually is and basically sentences him to death for his behavior, not his actual crime. I think the point of the book is that there is no point in understanding what the gently caress actually happened and why Meursault killed someone. It just happened and that's it. But, no one being really able to accept that and due to having a bad lawyer, the prosecutor building a case to show to that Meursault is a hearthless men for not crying to his mom funeral and Meursault being Meursault, he get the death penalty. Except if Meursault Mom is someone important to NCorp, it might be interesting to consider that Meursault breaking a taboo of NCorp by a series of event outside of his control. Aside from that, since Meursault didn't die from the death penalty, do you think he married Marie?
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Dec 6, 2023 06:18
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So something funny I noticed about Queequeg!Heathcliff in the Mirror Dungeons. Once you get the buff that removes your first stagger threshold, he pretty much just...doesn't stagger. At all. His next stagger threshold is so close to 0 health that if he does get staggered, he's pretty much already dead.
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Dec 7, 2023 04:33
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The Whale Boys are out Yi Sang: Weird, his S2 is his claim to fame but he doesn't get much out of having 2 copies of it and needs his S1 and 3 to facilitate it properly. It's ehhhh without it's conditions met. Some sinister coward limited the coin reuse to 3. Heathcliff: Decent numbers but despite a fairly big +4 Poise Count on his S1 he has issues stockpiling Potency. S2's Bleed Count is a terrible 1/3rd Bleed potency too. He does have far more reasonable envy res. conditions than Sis Don though(notably only needing 3/4 normal res for the first two boosts), and his counter can give him +10 defense level for just having 10 poise if he can actually get that much. Passive does 1% more damage for every missing 1% HP which is fantastic. Overall he seems like he can be good but his bleed/poise stuff are kinda non-factors to his main strategy of getting beat up and hitting stuff. Overall rating: they are ids in this video game Verant posted:So something funny I noticed about Queequeg!Heathcliff in the Mirror Dungeons. yeah with that absurd passive it seems like he's designed to get the poo poo kicked out of him. which can lead to problems when he's giving himself aggro at low hp but whatever risk/reward is a fundamental game mechanic Yinlock fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 04:41
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If i'm parsing Hequag's passive correctly, he's getting +5 or 6 offense level every turn that the enemy is getting attacks off, which is effectively +1 or 2 clash power versus everything. So he's going to clash much better on turn 2, as well as pick up damage in grindy dungeons or fights. The poise and bleed seem totally incidental to what the ID's trying to be good at, but at first glance his numbers seem really good for tanking and clashing.
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Dec 7, 2023 05:58
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Onehandclapping posted:If i'm parsing Hequag's passive correctly, he's getting +5 or 6 offense level every turn that the enemy is getting attacks off, which is effectively +1 or 2 clash power versus everything. So he's going to clash much better on turn 2, as well as pick up damage in grindy dungeons or fights. The poise and bleed seem totally incidental to what the ID's trying to be good at, but at first glance his numbers seem really good for tanking and clashing. he does have the issues of his damage mitigation relying on either stocking poise(unlikely with his coins) or him/everyone else getting their asses kicked(defeating the purpose of a tank). he's more of a brawler, he's meant to trade hits until either he or the enemy dies. half his kit sucks but it doesn't matter when you have a passive that good
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Dec 7, 2023 08:38
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Also given how the fight worked, I expect the theoretical Pequod Ishmael Identity will do a lot of heavy lifting for poise/bleed on her crew. Edit: I've had a wild almost definitely impossible thought, but Meursault's Mother might not just be his Mother, but a leader of the Middle. I've been considering the fact that his Chains of Others EGO uses the same "style" of chains wrapped around hands as all of the Middle, and it would certainly be a hell of a reason for him to be the way he is and having run away to Limbus Company. The logical issue is no way would the Middle wouldn't be trying to enact horrible vengeance on him if so. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 08:40
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   You have to be loving kidding me. This is just getting out of hand now.
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Dec 7, 2023 09:42
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Ahahahahaha
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Dec 7, 2023 10:21
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Poor Dongrang. All his fingers stolen by South Korean incels.
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Dec 7, 2023 10:29
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Dongrang was turned into an AI, and they still missed that yi sang's fingers could still be construed as a pinch by the absolutely asinine standards of the parties who get mad about such things. 
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Dec 7, 2023 10:32
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Workplace accidents in the City at an all time high since the Head made utilizing the opposable thumb Taboo
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Dec 7, 2023 10:36
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Lord_Magmar posted:Also given how the fight worked, I expect the theoretical Pequod Ishmael Identity will do a lot of heavy lifting for poise/bleed on her crew. i think you guys are getting a bit carried away from a single promo sentence, we know like nothing about the guy at all GilliamYaeger posted:You have to be loving kidding me. This is just getting out of hand now. i would've done the same thing but added a lovely ms paint dolphin jumping in the background with "TINY PENIS" written on it
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Dec 7, 2023 11:07
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Never would have guessed that PM would be as bad as Nexon. But of course, I was simply doubting the power of South Korean men to be infantile before.
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Dec 7, 2023 11:15
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Everytime I see the hand sign thing I'm just reminded of a meme video where they do it on an anime OP accidentally. Also I think Mersault's quote is purposefully written wrong to dodge copyright issues? It's meant to be one of the early lines in the book but it should be "Mother died today. Or maybe yesterday; I can't be sure".
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Dec 7, 2023 11:28
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trying out our large harpoon lad + Hits like a fuckin truck + Basically impossible to stagger after being staggered once + S3's first two boosts rely on res and not a.res making them very easy to activate + Doesn't really care if he loses clashes as the victory wine only makes him stronger + Does a really stupid kung fu kick as one of his clash animations - Gets staggered pretty easily the first time - His S1/2 effects might as well not exist at all - Not particularly EGO friendly given his super Envy focus - Mutually exclusive with R Heathcliff overall he's dumb fun. try to get res(or a.res) with his s3 but otherwise ignore his entire kit and smash him into enemies like an action figure Yinlock fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 12:07
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TeeQueue posted:Dongrang was turned into an AI, and they still missed that yi sang's fingers could still be construed as a pinch by the absolutely asinine standards of the parties who get mad about such things.
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Dec 7, 2023 16:35
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