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i always try to give people advice on how to play the units they wanna play. and in this case, you totally can have the imperial you don't see them very much because there are a bunch of viable options in this forward-screening, objective-holding role. this doesn't mean they're bad; there are just a lot of variously-specialized units that serve in this role. the lone ops - callidus, eversor, and sly marbo - and gaunt's ghosts are harder to pin down and more mobile, but worse at screening and more expensive. kasrkin hit harder but cost twice as much. rogue traders need a unit attachment to screen well, and cost a ton for a unit that's mediocre at a lot of things rather than being good at any one thing in particular. ratlings have decent shooting but don't screen as well, and precision shooting is kinda useless if your opponent knows how to play around it. scout sentinels don't screen as well. if you want a bunch of very cheap OC2 bodies to do secondaries on T1, force your opponent to push you off objectives, and screen initial charges, catachans are the optimal choice. they are your bayonet-armed front line, ready to hold the front line and receive charges. it's just going to go for them the way it went for every other poor bastard who got ordered to do that. they do the job of dying so everyone else can do the job of killing. IG don't have a meta list because the internal balance of their index is actually pretty great. there are a lot of ways you can go with a list and do very well. there are some bad tank variants, but most of them range from decent to great, and there are even viable superheavies now. (baneswords and stormswords are wild to play and play against.) Roller Coast Guard posted:Speaking of which, are we due another munitorum points manual rebalance sometime soon? this month or next month Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 21:19
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| # ? May 31, 2024 12:41 |
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Cease to Hope posted:this month or next month One of the metawatch videos said early Jan.
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Dec 4, 2023 21:24
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latest is late janury for the next dataslate
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Dec 4, 2023 21:30
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Cease to Hope posted:
Reminds me, I need to paint up my cossacks. 
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Dec 4, 2023 21:37
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Lostconfused posted:
I cant believe play what seems cool is the depressing option here.
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Dec 4, 2023 22:19
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Cease to Hope posted:All good points Mathing things out roughly, one of my catachan bricks is going to average (at full strength) ~18 S4 hits with AP -1, and ~5 S5 hits with AP -3, in the first round of combat. If I get fix bayonets off (which is almost a certainty), that jumps to ~22 and ~6 respectively. Those still need to wound and be saved against, but I have to imagine that is going to be a nasty shock coming from average guards. If I start handing out chainswords to the veterans these numbers go a little higher. That said, that doesn't seem like enough to finish off a lot of opponents, and they lose a lot of lethality in the second round. Hopefully the Riders help out if something looks grim. That feels workable to me. Virtual Russian fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 22:24
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Virtual Russian posted:Mathing things out roughly, one of my catachan bricks is going to average (at full strength) ~18 S4 hits with AP -1, and ~5 S5 hits with AP -3, in the first round of combat. If I get fix bayonets off (which is almost a certainty), that jumps to ~22 and ~6 respectively. Those still need to wound and be saved against, but I have to imagine that is going to be a nasty shock coming from average guards. If I start handing out chainswords to the veterans these numbers go a little higher. The question is whether you should throw good money after bad. This is a trap a lot of people fall into in 10th, me included! 10 Catachans are viable just as dudes holding the line. This is a 55 point cost but you're not relying on their melee to get you this value. Nevertheless, you're getting this amount of melee "free" along with the bodies: 10A 4+/3+ S4 AP-1 D1 Straken is also viable as some oomph added to the unit and two cheap orders. He does leak Assassinate but that's not the end of the world. You're mainly taking him for his own excellent melee attacks, which are buffed by the Catachan Squad's ability as long as any are left alive. He also gives his squad LH, which is worth about ~0.8-1.4 wounding hits per ten Catachans. 6 2+RR S7RR AP-3 D2 LH anti-monster 4+ 10A 4+/3+ S4 AP-1 D1 LH Up to here is fine. At 110 pts, this unit is a tad fragile, not fast after the first turn, and drops off after one round of combat, but it's punching as hard or harder than anything in its price range, and you're getting two orders until they go and die their glorious death. The trap is when you start adding things to it. Why not add 10 more Catachans? Compared to taking another separate squad of 10, you gain that extra 0.8-1.4 wounding hits. It also costs a second order; if you don't give the second order, a combined squad gets a total of ~1.7-1.9 additional wounding hits over two separate squads. The downsides are that the two halves can't move separately now, and this single unit can be picked up in one attack and gives away twice as many hits to Blast. 24 T3 5+ wounds evaporates fast when your opponent notices that 160 point infantry blob. And remember, your melee on the regular guys drops off hard after the first round of combat. 6 2+RR S7RR AP-3 D2 LH anti-monster 4+ 20A 4+/3+ S4 AP-1 D1 LH At this point, you have to ask what value you're getting that wouldn't be better had from comparably priced units. 10 Rough Riders, 140pts 9d6 3+/2+ S4 AP0 D1 +1 to wound 4 3+/2+ S4 AP-2 D1 OR 10 3+/2+ S9 AP-3 Dd6 +1 to wound PLUS 20 4+/3+ S4 AP0 D1 10 Death Riders, 140 30 3+/2+ S4 AP-1 D1 +1 to wound 20 4+/3+ S4 AP-1 D1 (Also a 60pt option to add a leader for infiltrate and 5 lance attacks with DW and 2 mount attacks) 6 Bullgryns, 160pts 24 3+/2+ S7 AP-1 D2 These units are all faster or tougher than the 20 Catachan plus Straker blob. You can go even further, dropping the scout move to add another attachment. Your options would be a lot of extra attacks from a command squad (12 more chainsword attacks plus a 3 4+ -2 2 pfist and an order) with or without an ogryn bodyguard (6 3+ S8 -1 2), or a preacher for SH1 on everyone (which is worth less effective damage than a command squad of chainswords but costs less), but now you're spending 195-260 points on a unit that is really noticeably squishy for this price bracket, having only gained more T3 wounds and a 6+++ at best. You could go for a psyker instead for a 4++ and some okay melee and 220 pts, but Catachans are uniquely unsuited for tarpitting because their melee falls off. Quantity has a quality of its own, but the baseline mediocrity of guardsmen really starts to be felt when you go much past 100 points. They just can't keep up with units that have more than one attack per model. People theorycrafted megabricks like this when the Index was first released, but they just don't pan out in practice. There isn't any hidden value in stacking up buffs in weird ways, at least not here. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Dec 5, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 23:41
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Anyone got good sources on Tau skin tones? I paint skin pretty simply so I was just gonna go for some pastel or greenish blues with some darker ones mixed in
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Dec 5, 2023 01:37
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Some Genestealers from the Tyranid Christmas box.  Kinda basic but I succeeded at finishing them in one evening so I'm ok with that.
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Dec 5, 2023 04:29
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Z the IVth posted:I forgot that the model had butt pads. Bizarre design decision on GW's part. The emperor likes a nice contoured rear end 
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Dec 5, 2023 07:06
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bzz bzz I am quite jealous of my partner's creativity. She's painted a harlequin troupe as mimes, and now these skyweavers as bees. Meanwhile my imagination is limited to "Custodes, but steel and purple". Athas fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Dec 5, 2023 |
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Dec 5, 2023 22:42
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Yeah I like that color scheme too 
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Dec 5, 2023 22:48
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I'm so close to having my 1,000 point army done. So close. Here is a joke I thought of last night quote:Call my wallet the Death Korp the way ₯30,000 goes out for the night and only ₯5,000 comes back. Hope you liked it! I just got done reading one of the warhammer wiki entries on the Siege of Vraks and as far as I can tell they literally transcribed the relevant books into a single article? Its like 80,000 words.
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Dec 5, 2023 23:18
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I'm trying to sculpt addons to a dnd Rage Drake to turn it into a Flesh Hound of Khorne, and it is a huge pain in the rear end!
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Dec 6, 2023 00:25
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The Demilich posted:I'm trying to sculpt addons to a dnd Rage Drake to turn it into a Flesh Hound of Khorne, and it is a huge pain in the rear end! I've been loving about with greenstuff and I get the best results mashing it into rough shape with my fingers, then coming back to it at a partial cure to sculpt it. A little water on the tools also helps.
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Dec 6, 2023 01:32
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Athas posted:bzz bzz That's very cool. My mind immediately went to Sectaurs when I saw those jetbikes. 
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Dec 6, 2023 01:44
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I thought they were wearing little cozies. Gotta keep those jetbikes warm.
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Dec 6, 2023 01:55
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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:I've been loving about with greenstuff and I get the best results mashing it into rough shape with my fingers, then coming back to it at a partial cure to sculpt it. Mixing it 50/50 with some milliput makes it much nicer to work with, it has a far better texture too. You are absolutely right that letting it set a bit makes it easier to work, especially for thin cloth. I also suggest working in small steps, letting each step cure fully. It will slow down progress, but gives you a lot more control and makes things more manageable. The biggest mistake I always made when learning to sculpt was trying to do too much too fast. If you work small the mistakes you make are small.
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Dec 6, 2023 03:22
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Cease to Hope posted:The question is whether you should throw good money after bad. This is a trap a lot of people fall into in 10th, me included! This all adds up. Back to my mechanized guard I go.
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Dec 6, 2023 03:25
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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:I've been loving about with greenstuff and I get the best results mashing it into rough shape with my fingers, then coming back to it at a partial cure to sculpt it. Buy some Nivea and use that sparingly on your sculpting tools. Best greenstuff hack I've ever learned.
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Dec 6, 2023 03:33
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I find that unless I'm working on really thin/shallow details or gap filling, it's better to do separate steps where I first do the approximate rough shape, and then do a second layer for the surface detail.
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Dec 6, 2023 07:37
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What are some good articles about just general strategy and tactics? I've played a handful of games over late 9th and 10th ed with an infantry-heavy Astra Militarum army, and I've been terrible at scoring even localized victories on the battlefield. I struggle to differentiate between flanking someone and just dividing up my units into weak blocks that get picked off, I try to concentrate fire and just leave most of the enemy unscathed, and I'm a terrible judge at when to advance and when to sit. What's some basic, basic things I should be asking myself at any given time to not make dumb mistakes on the battlefield? How do I fight good?
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Dec 6, 2023 11:34
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tangy yet delightful posted:Buy some Nivea and use that sparingly on your sculpting tools. Best greenstuff hack I've ever learned. Aha another Nivea user!  But any moisturizing cream will work just as well.Virtual Russian posted:Mixing it 50/50 with some milliput makes it much nicer to work with, it has a far better texture too. You are absolutely right that letting it set a bit makes it easier to work, especially for thin cloth. I also suggest working in small steps, letting each step cure fully. It will slow down progress, but gives you a lot more control and makes things more manageable. The biggest mistake I always made when learning to sculpt was trying to do too much too fast. If you work small the mistakes you make are small. Addendum to this as a general tip for cloaks, cloth, banners is to roll it flat when it's still soft between some parchment paper, let it partially cure then cut it to shape and mould it then. Also another thing I took a long time to realise is not to try forcing a thin piece of greenstuff into folds for a cloak. You'll always get a better result doing some rough folds and then adding more sausages of greenstuff on afterwards to make the folds and creases. I say this because I made a recon marine.  
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Dec 6, 2023 13:34
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Let's see if the guard talk from yesterday can keep going. 1000 points really feels like it's in a weird spot between Combat Patrol and building out a 2000 points army is way too expensive. I'm trying to figure out what to put together within that limit instead of thinking about how much it would cost to fill out the remaining 700 points on top of what I have already. quote:CHARACTER
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Dec 6, 2023 15:06
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Ofaloaf posted:What are some good articles about just general strategy and tactics? I've played a handful of games over late 9th and 10th ed with an infantry-heavy Astra Militarum army, and I've been terrible at scoring even localized victories on the battlefield. I struggle to differentiate between flanking someone and just dividing up my units into weak blocks that get picked off, I try to concentrate fire and just leave most of the enemy unscathed, and I'm a terrible judge at when to advance and when to sit. Getting in more games is really the only way you're going to learn tbh. Target selection and roughly knowing the probabilities of your weapons/attacks is good too. Flanking as an idea isn't really viable - enemies can move/charge in 360 degrees! If you mean 'playing the objectives' then I can see what you mean. Infantry heavy AM is a rough go - they die easily and become non-viable/battle shocked quite quickly. As a fair to middling AM player myself I find my weakest areas are: 1) Deployment - I feel stupid hiding all my stuff on turn 1, just incase I go second - I constantly have to remind myself to deploy as if I'm going to lose the roll off. Also I often deploy too far back and out of range of objective threats on turn 1/2. 2) Primary play - with few tough units in an AM army it's incredibly difficult to hold objectives unless I focus on tricky plays, using orders to boost OC, etc. 3) Sometimes your shooting is going to whiff, and whiff heavy. Does your army list have the staying power to survive a clap-back? My dorn not putting a dent into a squad of Wraithguard and then watching them put 20 odd devastating wounds into it next turn hurts man It's also always a good idea to ask your opponent what they would have done in your shoes, what you did well, what mistakes you made, etc.
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Dec 6, 2023 15:20
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Lostconfused posted:Let's see if the guard talk from yesterday can keep going. I think whatever list builder you're using is a little off, Cadian Command Squads should only be 65 pts currently & your list has 27x guard and 3x Sergeants listed in your 60 pt Shock Troops Squad. If the extra Shock Troops are supposed to be there I think you're over by 95. I don't know much about Guard at all, but I'm wondering if using some points on a transport would be better than the Heavy Weapons Squad or something.
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Dec 6, 2023 15:39
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I love guard talk and 1,000 point battles both. I say this with no real authority and more as an invitation for further commentary, but that looks like a very elite list for 1,000 points. Can you find the points for just another squad or two, maybe by changing out either one Dorn for a Leman Russ or one Kasrkin for normal troops?
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Dec 6, 2023 15:40
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Lostconfused posted:Let's see if the guard talk from yesterday can keep going. Make sure your dorns have their sponsons and are using the oppressor cannon, which is much better than the twin battle cannon
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Dec 6, 2023 15:42
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Nancy posted:I think whatever list builder you're using is a little off, Cadian Command Squads should only be 65 pts currently & your list has 27x guard and 3x Sergeants listed in your 60 pt Shock Troops Squad. If the extra Shock Troops are supposed to be there I think you're over by 95. The 27x thing is some hilarious bug or my mistake yeah, but the 80 point command squad is correct from the extra 15pt Grand Strategist enhancement. Tangy Zizzle posted:Make sure your dorns have their sponsons and are using the oppressor cannon, which is much better than the twin battle cannon
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Dec 6, 2023 15:54
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TBH, in a 1000 point game, your opponents are going to be a little pissed off that you are bringing two dorns
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Dec 6, 2023 15:58
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If there are any kind souls willing I'd also appreciate some critique on my GK 1k list I expanded from the combat patrol. Comes out to exactly 1000 pts. The other option I was toying with was a Land Raider Redeemer for the termies instead of the Stormraven.quote:CHARACTER
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Dec 6, 2023 16:08
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Tangy Zizzle posted:TBH, in a 1000 point game, your opponents are going to be a little pissed off that you are bringing two dorns Yeah, that feels really insane. I've noticed a lot of the newer players locally doing that. Forgefiends and tanks and high-powered characters at 1k. I like to play low-powered low-points games because I want to be more tactical instead of just bringing the biggest gun in my faction. Makes me miss Force Org charts.
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Dec 6, 2023 16:12
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Ofaloaf posted:What are some good articles about just general strategy and tactics? I've played a handful of games over late 9th and 10th ed with an infantry-heavy Astra Militarum army, and I've been terrible at scoring even localized victories on the battlefield. I struggle to differentiate between flanking someone and just dividing up my units into weak blocks that get picked off, I try to concentrate fire and just leave most of the enemy unscathed, and I'm a terrible judge at when to advance and when to sit. Pay attention to what objectives youre scoring and when. Try to think one move aheadif I put this squad here whats the opponent gonna do? Thinking ahead allows you to do stuff like lay traps which is the most fun part of the game imo. Thinking in an objective based framework also helps you avoid problems like splitting firefigure out how your opponent is going to score and stop him, figure out how your opponent is going to prevent you from scoring and prevent him from preventing you. You can win some games by forcing an opponent to commit resources into one area of the board and then ignoring that area once hes dropped slow deep strikers or sent strong melee units to deal with a section of the board you suddenly have no presence on. with tactical secondaries a big part of it is being prepared for anythingif you have an empty rhino its often not a bad idea to send it to the middle of the board in case your opponent draws area denial or you draw teleport homers, you want to have some strategic reserves units for engage on all fronts and investigate signals, you want to be poised to take an objective in case you draw storm hostile. The tactical secondaries are broadly speaking as hold the middle, hold the corners/dz, take objectives, and kill stuff. your list should be able to do all of those things.
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Dec 6, 2023 16:14
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Beerdeer posted:Makes me miss Force Org charts. Hey, it's still probably within the 3rd edition chart!  1 HQ, 1 Troop, 2 Elites, 3 Heavy Support. Just need to swap that sentinel for an extra troop choice.
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Dec 6, 2023 16:19
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I've been toying around with a 1,000 armored fist list myself, I'd appreciate any feedback:1k Armored Fist posted:++ Army Roster (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [1,000pts] ++ The basic idea would be that the Catachan and the Cadian Command Squad ride in the 4 Chimeras and provide most of the offensive pressure, backed up by the Leman Russ. My back field is held by the Platoon Command Squad and the Infantry Squad, both of which have mortars and, along with the Field Guns, would provide fire support as-needed. The Tempustus are just there because Mordian Glory has convinced me it's important to be able to satisfying deep strike related secondaries, also one little teleporting squad seems like one of the more useful things you could spend 55 points on. Frankly I'd really like to run another russ but I'm not sure where I'd find the points, probably the back line needs to be better optimized?
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Dec 6, 2023 16:25
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For 1000 points that's a pretty strong list! I think you'll see good success as long as you don't expect to win in combat and stick to the objective game. Maybe consider using a leman russ exterminator instead, as giving your chimeras an extra pip of AP against a specific unit each turn might be helpful
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Dec 6, 2023 16:46
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5 tanks at 1k? Sure , why not.
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Dec 6, 2023 16:50
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/06/miniature-of-the-year-2023-vote-for-your-favourite-model-today/ The model of the year vote has started.
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Dec 6, 2023 16:55
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I voted Angron because, how could I fuckin not? It was between that kit and the Lion IMHO, but had Fulgrim been on that list (I guess no FW models?) I would have thrown it the vote.
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Dec 6, 2023 16:57
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I threw my vote away on Khorne Berserkers because they're awesome 
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