|
FuzzySlippers posted:Has any game ever done insurgent warfare particularly well either from a narrative or gameplay perspective? Games, like Hollywood movies, have always been a lot more comfortable with CI. I think ja2 heavily implies if not outright states that Deidrianna is backed by the US/NATO, since Ira has a line about hating America bc it’s always loving up other countries, the alruco elite troops all using high end NATO equipment, and the foreign scientists and military advisors mostly being westerners the new jagged alliance has a communist rebel group operating in the same country and from what I recall they’re treated as sympathetic if too idealistic which makes sense since it’s the tropico devs and the communists in that series are always the most reasonable faction
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 04:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:54 |
|
|
FrancisFukyomama posted:in the first one there’s a mission where xcom kidnaps an anti xcom politician and is implied to disappear him to a black site or something while in xcom 2 xcom basically uses IRA type tactics but there’s zero follow up on either, not even safe “wow violence is bad” liberal stuff i think i played xcom2 before i was really politically aware and i posted awhile ago that i vaguely remember not liking the vibe and gradenko_2000 reminded me this was the finale: gradenko_2000 posted:the denouement of XCOM 2 was functionally identical to "6 Underground", in that the CIA / natsec liberal view of stoking revolution is that if you can broadcast news of regime atrocities over the airwaves, you can spontaneously cause riots and a government-overthrowing movement
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 04:10
|
|
|
crepeface posted:i think i played xcom2 before i was really politically aware and i posted awhile ago that i vaguely remember not liking the vibe and gradenko_2000 reminded me this was the finale: lol my wife has wanted to watch ds9 so we're slowly going through it and we hit the dystopia 2024 episodes which were amusing for a variety of reasons (spot on with the unemployed homeless district in every major city but too optimistic about them getting some lovely public housing instead of a shanty town), but especially the finale where the tyrannical government is hesitant to storm the building where like 6 low level government employees are held hostage. The big conclusive history changing event is getting footage of the unemployed people being sad out onto the public internet. I'm not sure where the line is between op and naive stupidity on these views of revolution. It's actually pretty similar to how Bill and Ted are supposed to cause world peace so therefore I am dubbing it the Bill and Ted excellent revolutionary method.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 04:18
|
|
|
dead gay comedy forums posted:get me the programmers and I write the everliving poo poo out of backstory worldbuilding and plot of this the glorious xcommunists leading a global revolution!
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 04:52
|
|
|
crepeface posted:i think i played xcom2 before i was really politically aware and i posted awhile ago that i vaguely remember not liking the vibe and gradenko_2000 reminded me this was the finale: yeah the greatest obstacle to xcom2 global vietnam is that it requires a politically active world and narrative that is for all intents and purposes hostile to the default end of history politics that is omnipresent in american cultural production
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 04:56
|
|
|
Danann posted:https://twitter.com/snekotron/status/1731765278848045144 flying lawnmower & golf cart katyusha are the heroes we need today o7
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 05:14
|
|
|
FrancisFukyomama posted:in the first one there’s a mission where xcom kidnaps an anti xcom politician and is implied to disappear him to a black site or something while in xcom 2 xcom basically uses IRA type tactics but there’s zero follow up on either, not even safe “wow violence is bad” liberal stuff here's one reason why- Sid is a huge christian guy and surrounds himself with similar people. We got in big arguments with them during the xcom reboot because they wouldn't even let cursing into the game. aliens are literally invading earth and it was uphill to make somebody say something besides 'oh my gosh'
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 05:47
|
|
|
crepeface posted:i think i played xcom2 before i was really politically aware and i posted awhile ago that i vaguely remember not liking the vibe and gradenko_2000 reminded me this was the finale: StarCraft 1 involves a revolution against the confederacy but then the new boss is as bad as the old boss. StarCraft 2 involves you building a revolution and the culmination of that work is... Basically the same as XCOM 2. The independent news media just chooses for some reason to replace the pro empire folks with the pro revolutionary folks and it's all good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 06:40
|
|
|
FuzzySlippers posted:lol my wife has wanted to watch ds9 so we're slowly going through it and we hit the dystopia 2024 episodes which were amusing for a variety of reasons (spot on with the unemployed homeless district in every major city but too optimistic about them getting some lovely public housing instead of a shanty town), but especially the finale where the tyrannical government is hesitant to storm the building where like 6 low level government employees are held hostage. The big conclusive history changing event is getting footage of the unemployed people being sad out onto the public internet. There is plenty of 90s thought in DS9 especially regarding the Klingons (i.e the Russkis), Erzi Dax has a whole speech about how they need to give up on their culture, become more like the Federation, or die out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 08:38
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:There is plenty of 90s thought in DS9 especially regarding the Klingons (i.e the Russkis), Erzi Dax has a whole speech about how they need to give up on their culture, become more like the Federation, or die out. eh, Klingons require an external enemy or the empire devours itself. Or to quote General Martok quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE4eW0fJyp4 You probably know this but he's critizing Worf for marrying a non-klingon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 09:01
|
|
|
Worf killing gowron was the moment that sealed the Klingon Empire's fate, after that it was just momentum
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 09:12
|
|
|
DickParasite posted:eh, Klingons require an external enemy or the empire devours itself. Or to quote General Martok The Klingons are the Russians, basically, they are saying Russian expansionism dies or so will Russia. The Federation is an idealized version of America, that its expansion is good because its morals are superior, unlike the other powers who are always evil. Occasionally, the Federation needs to fight to "right the Alpha quadrant" and "keep prepared." While "Bugmen" occasionally pop up (usually alien foreigners or humans from the past), the Federation is essence Fukuyama's dream. The Federation is all powerful, and its expansion is protected by moral values, occasionally fighting wars, all of which they can win. Slavvy posted:Worf killing gowron was the moment that sealed the Klingon Empire's fate, after that it was just momentum When Gowron attacks DS9, there are Gatling gun torpedo launchers proving to be invincible wunderwaffle. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 09:17 on Dec 6, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 09:13
|
|
|
BULBASAUR posted:here's one reason why- Sid is a huge christian guy and surrounds himself with similar people. We got in big arguments with them during the xcom reboot because they wouldn't even let cursing into the game. aliens are literally invading earth and it was uphill to make somebody say something besides 'oh my gosh' hm, that's kind of a bummer. if he's the type of guy that thinks about human history broadly as the civ games suggest and he's a crazy christian, does that mean he thinks the crusades, colonialism, imperialism, etc were net goods as they made more people christians?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 13:26
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:The Klingons are the Russians  Worf is Belarusian.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 13:32
|
|
|
Has anyone ever seen Anne Applebaum and Anne Widdecombe in the same place at the same time?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 13:46
|
|
|
I always thought the romulans became the Russian analog by TNG since gene decided the federation and Klingons would be friendly for the series
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 13:56
|
|
|
Hatebag posted:hm, that's kind of a bummer. if he's the type of guy that thinks about human history broadly as the civ games suggest and he's a crazy christian, does that mean he thinks the crusades, colonialism, imperialism, etc were net goods as they made more people christians? The crusades were a wonder in Civ 2 and in Civ Colonization the natives will slowly give up their land to you.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:01
|
|
|
there's definitely some japanese stuff going on with the klingons too. and i think the federation typically behaves more like a midpoint between the un and nato. nothing is really a 1:1 analog though. even the cardassians aren't perfect representations of israelis. plus the shows were all written by different people and produced by a series of degenerate abusive cokeheads so the uh racial characterizations aren't 100% consistent either
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:07
|
|
|
sullat posted:The crusades were a wonder in Civ 2 and in Civ Colonization the natives will slowly give up their land to you. yeah, doesn't reflect well on his morality. love those games, though!
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:11
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:The Klingons are the Russians, basically, they are saying Russian expansionism dies or so will Russia. I hate that root beer exchange between Quark and Garrak that everyone seems to love so much. Pure western chauvinism.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:19
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:I always thought the romulans became the Russian analog by TNG since gene decided the federation and Klingons would be friendly for the series The US was friendly with the Russians from the late 1980s to the late 90s, they were still the Russians. Generally from that point the Klingons either get ignored or more negative bit portrayals (Worf is in Picard, but I don't think there is a single line about anything going on with them or their culture). Hatebag posted:there's definitely some japanese stuff going on with the klingons too. and i think the federation typically behaves more like a midpoint between the un and nato. nothing is really a 1:1 analog though. even the cardassians aren't perfect representations of israelis. plus the shows were all written by different people and produced by a series of degenerate abusive cokeheads so the uh racial characterizations aren't 100% consistent either Cardassians are just generic Nazis, if anything Bajor is arguably more Israel (from a 90s Hollywood point of view). The Federation is America, it just is how American liberals view American power. There is a reason the vast majority of captains are American. The Klingons "honorable warrior" thing is a old trope that shows up everywhere in scifi, but the back and worth between the Klingons and the Federation pretty much goes from the original series though the movies and then TNG/DS9. If anything, it is the closest thing to a meta-narrative in Trek (until I guess Voyager to today where there is absolutely nothing going except one off space adventures). A lot of about Trek but it isn't off topic. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 14:27 on Dec 6, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:19
|
|
|
What's the infrastructure building cultural gencocide Chinese analog in ST?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:22
|
|
|
stephenthinkpad posted:What's the infrastructure building cultural gencocide Chinese analog in ST? Borg
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:23
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:The US was friendly with the Russians from the late 1980s to the late 90s, they were still the Russians. Generally from that point the Klingons either get ignored or more negative bit portrayals (Worf is in Picard, but I don't think there is a single line about anything going on with them or their culture). Bajor is Israel if the Cardassians are Rome. Bajor is Palestine if the Cardassians are Israel. E: and to further mix things up, the ferengi play to a bunch of antisemitic tropes as well. DickParasite has issued a correction as of 14:31 on Dec 6, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:29
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:I always thought the romulans became the Russian analog by TNG since gene decided the federation and Klingons would be friendly for the series They don't really map to anyone and its more like they gave the concept of duplicitousness physical form
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:31
|
|
|
stephenthinkpad posted:What's the infrastructure building cultural gencocide Chinese analog in ST? They came too late before Star Trek gave up on any narrative, but sure the Borg I guess and their "collective." DickParasite posted:Bajor is Israel if the Cardassians are Rome. Bajor is Palestine if the Cardassians are Israel. We are working from 90s Hollywood logic, so it makes sense Bajor is Israel (even though it doesn't really make sense). The Cardassians had labor and concentration camps on Bajor (i.e the their the Nazis and Bajorians are Jews), the Bajorians are a "very spiritual and oppressed people" and they have a newly founded government that is trying to garner support to protect itself. It sounds like the plot to Exodus to me. If you really want to go deep the Ferengi are all the negative stereotypes of Jews, and the Bajors are mostly the positive stereotypes of Israelis (a formerly oppressed people who are "tough" and "ready to fight for their land" and who have given up being "petty traders and money changers. I mean I like DS 9 but it is still an American show produced in LA. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 14:38 on Dec 6, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:32
|
|
|
Socialism with Collective Characteristic
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:35
|
|
|
the romulans are romans, which suggests the vulcans are byzantine?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:38
|
|
|
Star trek still has a narrative, its a subset of neoliberalism: Tech will fix all problems St referencing climate change was to say that we must fund space exploration so we find alien technology that will allow us to fix things
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:38
|
|
|
ferengi are hedge fund managers
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:39
|
|
|
Hatebag posted:the romulans are romans, which suggests the vulcans are byzantine? Vulcans came first, so I guess they would be the Etruscans. But really the only characteristic Romulans have beyond their name is that they are "sneaky" and that is literally it. Regarde Aduck posted:Star trek still has a narrative, its a subset of neoliberalism: Tech will fix all problems That is more of a theme, there isn't anything connecting the franchise together at this point beyond space. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 14:42 on Dec 6, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:40
|
|
|
Hatebag posted:the romulans are romans, which suggests the vulcans are byzantine? Maybe more like the Celto- Romans after Honorius told them to piss off.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:40
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:Vulcans came first, so I guess they would be the Etruscans. But really the only characteristic Romulans have beyond their name is that they are "sneaky" and that is literally it. well, the haircuts
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:41
|
|
|
Hatebag posted:well, the haircuts Picard kind of threw a wrench in that including, I guess adding a honorable warrior Romulan. But yeah, the Romulans are pretty much just sneaky usually.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:43
|
|
|
Scarabrae posted:ferengi are hedge fund managers the star trek cartoon is doing good stuff with the ferengi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYYOc2dqzi4
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 14:44
|
|
|
FrancisFukyomama posted:the new jagged alliance has a communist rebel group operating in the same country and from what I recall they’re treated as sympathetic if too idealistic which makes sense since it’s the tropico devs and the communists in that series are always the most reasonable faction Is there any of the original team left on the newer tropicos? They feel bland compared to Tropico 1, which was truly inspired. It's one of the few games that doesn't force you to reenact someone's baby politics preconceptions, or lecture you if you don't. Easy mode was always to go full socialism and keep winning elections legit (all you had to worry about then was US intervention). But if you wanted a challenge you could go the capitalist route and deal with all the internal instability that followed. It was also good satire, and the simulation depth was way ahead of its time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 15:24
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:Star trek still has a narrative, its a subset of neoliberalism: Tech will fix all problems NuTrek is neolib, you get forever conflict and never ending NuTerk cinematic universe. TNG is space luxury communism and post scarcity society. Also predated Stephenson's nano machine matter compiler by a couple decades.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 15:33
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/WarMurals/status/1731740322105892994
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 17:24
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:Star trek still has a narrative, its a subset of neoliberalism: Tech will fix all problems That’s not neoliberalism, that’s just regular liberalism, that’s exactly the ideology of McNamara. Neoliberalism would be “who is to say if there even are problems, because if there are the market would have already solved them”
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 17:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:54 |
|
|
that long haired fat kurt cobain look alike soldier up front is READY to deploy the WMDs whopper meal deals
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2023 18:07
|
|