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SKULL.GIF posted:if he gets Tepper to avoid meddling Based on his track record, this looks like challenge level: impossible. Which is the whole problem.
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Dec 6, 2023 20:38
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the only person who can get Tepper to stop meddling is Tepper
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Dec 6, 2023 20:41
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ozymandius1024 posted:I wasn't saying that Flores was doing it for Tua's own good, just that he wasn't completely destroyed going forward from it happening (and that having McDaniel and those WRs has helped a ton). You have to be mentally strong to be at the highest level, and if you can't deal with a coach doubting you and the adversity of getting benched, then maybe you just don't belong. Tua bounced back due to a really substantial effort from McDaniels to convince him that he does not, in fact, suck. Most coaches probably wouldn’t have put in the work. https://apnews.com/article/miami-do...passing%20week. quote:Tagovailoa told CBS that he looked at himself in the mirror multiple times last year and asked, “Do I suck?” as the Dolphins' belief in him seemed to wane with each passing week. This sucks. It’s just a lovely thing to do to a kid and I don’t think it’s fair to say that if you can’t bounce back from a lovely coach wrecking your confidence then you weren’t cut out for the league. But yea, I agree that this is ultimately stepper’s doing, however I think once you’ve started Bryce you’ve got to keep playing him at that point. I also think QBs really get much better on the bench outside of fixing mechanics.
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Dec 6, 2023 20:47
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Codependent Poster posted:His staff in Indy were already there before he came in because of the McDaniels thing. I agree, it's hard to put together a team of ambitious people and then not have them be at each other's throats when things go south. Especially if coaches are literally going to the owner over every grievance real or imagined. Reich sure as hell didn't do a good job, but I struggle to see how any coach could have succeeded over there this year.
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Dec 6, 2023 20:58
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Relentlessboredomm posted:I will say to no one’s surprise it sounds like Reich had no idea how to manage a coaching staff that wasn’t just his buddies especially when things got tough. I think that's absolutely the wrong take. Just look at these quotes: quote:The Athletic spoke to more than 20 Panthers coaches, players and other league sources, some of whom were granted anonymity so they could speak freely. They painted a picture of dysfunction inside the Panthers’ offices, with assistant coaches undermining other coaches as many went into self-preservation mode when it became clear Reich’s days were numbered. quote:Coaches said they believed other staff members were text messaging Tepper behind Reich’s back about issues they saw with the team. In one instance, general manager Scott Fitterer and an offensive coach went to Tepper with a coaching suggestion for the quarterback. quote:Days before Thanksgiving, with the team spiraling and Young getting pummeled, Tepper told Reich to fix the rookie’s footwork. Fitterer and others had told Tepper that Young’s feet were the cause of some of the Panthers’ protection issues. They believed Young wasn’t dropping back deep enough on his pass sets. quote:With Tepper supplying the capital, Reich assembled one of the NFL’s largest staffs, stocked with a pair of former head coaches (Dom Capers and Jim Caldwell), two ascending coordinators (Thomas Brown and Ejiro Evero) and several other well-known assistants. quote:Tepper also encouraged Reich to go outside of his “circle” with some of the hires. As such, many of the offensive coaches had never worked together and brought different philosophies to an offense that would be led by a rookie quarterback from Week 1. Besides the disagreements in scheme, there were personality conflicts and factions formed on a staff that included two main holdovers from Rhule’s staff — offensive line coach James Campen and special teams coordinator Chris Tabor, both of whom were retained at Tepper’s urging. It keeps going, but the picture that's painted here is clear: Reich was clearly put into an impossible situation. An important part of running any organization is having clear lines of communication and leadership, a clear plan, and a shared philosophy for success, and none of that was present in Carolina. From the very beginning, Reich was made to hire a large and unwieldy staff, bringing in or retaining people many people he didn't know, several of whom had competing ideas on how to coach the team. A lot of these coaches had backchannel communications to the front office and ownership, undermining Reich's leadership and ability to make decisions. And then when these issues and the overall lack of talent failed to result in instant success, Tepper decided to jump ahead and burn everything down to start from scratch. I'm not going to say that Reich was blameless for Carolina's failures this seasons, or that he could have formed a great staff and lead the team to a winning season had Tepper laid off. But reading through the article, it's hard to see it as anything other than Reich never having had a chance to begin with — far from "failing when he doesn't have his buddies."
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Dec 6, 2023 21:04
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YOLOsubmarine posted:But yea, I agree that this is ultimately stepper’s doing, however I think once you’ve started Bryce you’ve got to keep playing him at that point. I also think QBs really get much better on the bench outside of fixing mechanics. I do think it's important that he's properly protected so he doesn't get destroyed, and I just don't think that's happening with the Panthers interior OL being decimated (and that's not even mentioning the step back that Ekwonu has taken at LT). I don't put as much stock in the "he sucks cause he's short" poo poo that some folks do, but I do think him being as slight as he is will always be a genuine injury concern. This season loving sucks.
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Dec 6, 2023 21:08
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What's wild to me is, I get the arguments for Young's motivation, but of all the backups to veto jumping in while your rookie fixes his mechanics in practice a bit more, and it's Andy Dalton? Like, the Jets would probably kill to have an Andy Dalton right now. Why would you have as quality a backup as that and say, "Bryce can never take a break and prepare more." It's not like he'd be briefly losing the job to Easton Stick or whatever, it's a dude with significant starting time in the league. Why do you even have Dalton if you're never going to consider playing him.
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Dec 6, 2023 21:14
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Probably Magic posted:What's wild to me is, I get the arguments for Young's motivation, but of all the backups to veto jumping in while your rookie fixes his mechanics in practice a bit more, and it's Andy Dalton? Like, the Jets would probably kill to have an Andy Dalton right now. Why would you have as quality a backup as that and say, "Bryce can never take a break and prepare more." It's not like he'd be briefly losing the job to Easton Stick or whatever, it's a dude with significant starting time in the league. Why do you even have Dalton if you're never going to consider playing him. That's the thing: Dalton should have been starting from week one if Young wasn't ready, which he clearly wasn't. But when the owner is the one who insisted drafting him - who insisted on giving up more capital to make absolutely certain that he drafted him - he's going to insist on showing off his shiny new toy. And everything falls apart from there.
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Dec 6, 2023 21:33
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Probably Magic posted:What's wild to me is, I get the arguments for Young's motivation, but of all the backups to veto jumping in while your rookie fixes his mechanics in practice a bit more, and it's Andy Dalton? Like, the Jets would probably kill to have an Andy Dalton right now. Why would you have as quality a backup as that and say, "Bryce can never take a break and prepare more." It's not like he'd be briefly losing the job to Easton Stick or whatever, it's a dude with significant starting time in the league. Why do you even have Dalton if you're never going to consider playing him. Dalton is good enough that the team would actually be in contention for the South this year with him starting, which means Bryce wouldn’t be starting at all this season. The problem with having a decent backup for your rookie QB is they’re probably going to be better than the rookie QB for at least a while so you really can’t switch back and forth during the season unless you really want to create havoc.
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Dec 6, 2023 21:40
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indigi posted:the only person who can get Tepper to stop meddling is Tepper I stand by my wet willie approach  Maybe mix in a swirly every now and then if the message isn't getting through.
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Dec 6, 2023 21:51
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Dalton is good enough that the team would actually be in contention for the South this year with him starting, which means Bryce wouldn’t be starting at all this season. The problem with having a decent backup for your rookie QB is they’re probably going to be better than the rookie QB for at least a while so you really can’t switch back and forth during the season unless you really want to create havoc. I'm not sure if I quite agree with that. Tannehill would be a quality backup on most teams for the same reason as Andy, but Levis has outplayed him so that even coming back from the injury it's Levis going forward. Meanwhile, Dalton is currently outplaying Young, so if it's a true meritocracy, you try Young out, see he's not there yet, and stick with Andy.
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Dec 6, 2023 21:56
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ozymandius1024 posted:I do think it's important that he's properly protected so he doesn't get destroyed, and I just don't think that's happening with the Panthers interior OL being decimated (and that's not even mentioning the step back that Ekwonu has taken at LT). I don't put as much stock in the "he sucks cause he's short" poo poo that some folks do, but I do think him being as slight as he is will always be a genuine injury concern. Yeah, agreed. And I think what makes everything suck more is that last season we looked like we were coming out of the slump we had been stuck in since Rivera's last years and instead we tripped and fell head first into a dark hole. And what's even worse is: YOLOsubmarine posted:Dalton is good enough that the team would actually be in contention for the South this year with him starting -is arguably true. If the only thing Carolina had done this off-season is signed Dalton, we would have avoided all of this mess. We'd still be looking for a new QB down the road, but we wouldn't be the trashfire we are right now
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Dec 6, 2023 21:58
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Probably Magic posted:I'm not sure if I quite agree with that. Tannehill would be a quality backup on most teams for the same reason as Andy, but Levis has outplayed him so that even coming back from the injury it's Levis going forward. Meanwhile, Dalton is currently outplaying Young, so if it's a true meritocracy, you try Young out, see he's not there yet, and stick with Andy. Young isn’t going to get better by not playing though and unless the goal is something very specific like sitting him while fixing his mechanics then you’re just wasting cost controlled years where he should be learning and you should be evaluating him. If he can’t outplay Dalton right now I doubt he’s going to outplay him after another year or two of riding the bench.
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Dec 6, 2023 22:08
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From the Athletic article on the Panthers coaching:quote:Reich, Fitterer and the offensive coaches decided the priority before Young’s first season was preparing him to call plays in the huddle for the first time and giving him time to absorb a playbook that blended Reich’s system with wide zone concepts Brown bought from the Los Angeles Rams. Any tweaks or changes the Panthers wanted to make to Young’s mechanics would wait until the offseason. quote:League sources said Tepper struggled with the decision to fire Reich. But the combination of Young’s difficulty understanding Reich’s offense, specifically the reads, timing and ball placement, as well as Young’s lack of protection, convinced the owner the organization wasn’t helping its quarterback, but ruining him. Put aside your personal assessment of Bryce as a QB, both pre-draft and now, for just a moment. Replace his name in those paragraphs with "1st-round rookie QB". How the gently caress could anyone down at Panthers HQ believe this approach would be successful while naming the rookie the starting QB? Letting flawed mechanics fester for a whole season? Knowingly putting a guy who's new to calling plays and new to the offensive scheme behind an OL that was specifically assembled for an entirely different blocking scheme? And then refusing to switch to Dalton once it became apparent that starting the rookie was only reinforcing bad habits re: footwork and providing very little in terms of 'useful experience running a well-installed offense'?  (aww, is the 'you dumbass' smilie gone?)
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Dec 6, 2023 22:08
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Yeah that seems completely backwards for development. No wonder he’s been so miserable
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Dec 6, 2023 22:13
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I think that's absolutely the wrong take. Just look at these quotes: Yea fair points, there's a ton of org dysfunction going on there. I'm just deeply suspicious of the whole coaching nepotism thing and this one sounded a lot like a guy who's not used to having super ambitious people under him unable to cut it. But it does sound like it's more a Tepper issue than anything else. YOLOsubmarine posted:Dalton is good enough that the team would actually be in contention for the South this year with him starting, which means Bryce wouldn’t be starting at all this season. The problem with having a decent backup for your rookie QB is they’re probably going to be better than the rookie QB for at least a while so you really can’t switch back and forth during the season unless you really want to create havoc. Dalton starting for the first ~4 games would've been interesting just to get a sense for what's possible in this offense before Bryce started. If anything it would've drawn a clearer line around which problems were Reichs playcalling, Fitterer's talent acquisition, or Young's inability to play NFL QB. And it would've given them time to actually work on Young's mechanics, which woof.
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Dec 6, 2023 22:14
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maybe there was a belief that it would be easier for him to learn the offense and how to read defenses at an nfl level than. isn't that what alabama did?
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Dec 6, 2023 22:16
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Parallax posted:maybe there was a belief that it would be easier for him to learn the offense and how to read defenses at an nfl level than. isn't that what alabama did? There’s no NFL equivalent of playing Mercer in week two, is the thing.
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Dec 6, 2023 22:20
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Man I am fascinated to see who wants to/ends up coaching the Panthers next year. - Insane meddlesome owner - Tiny QB you have to start/fix - No offensive talent - No first round draft pick - Easy division tho By comparison the Bears if they open up have so many loving resources for a new coach. You can keep fields or draft a new kid plus you have 2 first round picks, a defense with a few ok pieces, an improving offensive line and 1 very very good WR. SD obviously is the ideal spot since you have Herbie.
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Dec 6, 2023 22:22
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Man I am fascinated to see who wants to/ends up coaching the Panthers next year. You're underselling those first round picks too, they're currently #1 and #5 
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Dec 6, 2023 22:31
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Part of the reason Mahomes transitioned so well is that he went to KC in a fairly familiar system to what he had in college. Iirc members of mahomes coaching staff in college were actually from the same coaching tree as Reid and ran very similar concepts. That right there truncates the learning curve massively. Then he was allowed to sit and learn the little extra bits to his game, operating under center, adjusting plays, protection etc etc so the transition was as close to seamless as it gets. When Cam arrived in Carolina Chudzinski adopted a whole bunch of concepts that he'd used at Auburn and he blew records at the time apart. Even Tua now plays in a system with similar concepts to what he had in college, burrow had a similar thing in his second year where he more uses his touch and accuracy to throw to areas of the field as much as specific route concepts. Which allowed him to come up to speed on the poo poo he didn't do in college. Bryce was asked to rework everything as a rookie, with a supporting cast thats not up to par, in a new offense. That's a pretty tough ask to me. I legitimately believe that if Byrce was cut tomorrow before the end of the next day he'd be in San Francisco, Miami, LA with the Rams and he'd look world's better. Yeah Bryce has had issues but gently caress me, how could he not with the way it was handled. Everything from top to bottom has been a poo poo show and tbh the only hope is that the next few weeks we see more of what Brown installed this week that actually worked. A lot more motion, more bunch formations, more downhill runs, less static timing bullshit routes. Actual modern offensive concepts for a player like him to do what he does best. You see the college stuff and yeah highlights are bullshit but there's times where be ghosts around a defender and launches a 50 yard rainbow that just drops into a bucket for a receiver going full clip. There's plenty of talent there to work with but literally nothing you would have on your wish list for a young QB was there most of this year. Unfamiliar scheme Wholesale changes to how you're expect to run an offense Offensive line that can't protect Run game that just isn't working A sub par receiver room Sub par tight end room Offensive coordinator changes Scheme emphasis changes. The dudes head must be spinning. If DJ Moore and CMC were still there and he was put in with a head coach whod been there for 2 years running a similar scheme to what be ran in college and his numbers were the same. He's a bust is a bust is a bust but I mean... name one thing the panthers have actually put in place to help his transition this year? I can't.
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Dec 6, 2023 22:47
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Man I am fascinated to see who wants to/ends up coaching the Panthers next year. it doesn't matter who is on the bears, they are a Toilet Franchise that will never be good again.
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Dec 6, 2023 23:11
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the bears will use their famous Assets to draft bad players or players they will immediately ruin with bad coaching, they will never have a 4,000 yard passer, a functioning offense, or a playoff win, they're basically the NFC Browns.
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Dec 6, 2023 23:14
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Bears are going to pick Drake maye, then sit him for four games behind Ryan tannehill, IMO.
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Dec 6, 2023 23:20
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The head coach? That’s right - Ron Rivera.
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Dec 6, 2023 23:21
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Bismack Billabongo posted:Bears are going to pick Drake maye, then sit him for four games behind Ryan tannehill, IMO. Still thinking about that time the Bears paid Mike Glennon like $20 mil and declared him the unquestioned starter. Then a few weeks later traded a truckload of picks to get Trubisky and had him starting by like week 4 because Mike Glennon played how Mike Glennon has always played I’m sure being an NFL GM is very hard but sometimes I literally cannot understand the thought process
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Dec 7, 2023 00:24
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R.D. Mangles posted:it doesn't matter who is on the bears, they are a Toilet Franchise that will never be good again. Oh no disagreement and yet that HC job is MILES more appealing than the Panthers
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Dec 7, 2023 00:55
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BlindSite posted:name one thing the panthers have actually put in place to help his transition this year? I can't. 
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Dec 7, 2023 01:54
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blindsite is going to see this picture and tie himself into knots about how it's every other aspect of the team's fault and a failure to bryce that he has less muscle definition in his arms than nicole tepper. it's more embarrassing than this picture of matt leinart. at least he had the awareness to sink into the water.  bryce is loving curtsey'ing how the gently caress did this happen i swear to loving god
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Dec 7, 2023 02:23
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Docjowles posted:Still thinking about that time the Bears paid Mike Glennon like $20 mil and declared him the unquestioned starter. Then a few weeks later traded a truckload of picks to get Trubisky and had him starting by like week 4 because Mike Glennon played how Mike Glennon has always played they didn't tell glennon they were picking a QB and glennon had to sort of sheepishly walk out with his ridiculous loving neck in shame from the Official Bears Draft Party, lmao.
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Dec 7, 2023 03:42
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FizFashizzle posted:blindsite is going to see this picture and tie himself into knots about how it's every other aspect of the team's fault and a failure to bryce that he has less muscle definition in his arms than nicole tepper. I’ve never handwaved his size before. I just don't agree it's the cause of the problems we're having on offense rn.
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Dec 7, 2023 04:46
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Need a new season of Ballers or Playmakers or whatever, where the owner's wife has conspired to coerce the rookie QB so he plays like poo poo and gives the owner a fatal coronary.
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Dec 7, 2023 05:05
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BlindSite posted:I’ve never handwaved his size before. I just don't agree it's the cause of the problems we're having on offense rn. It’s certainly a factor
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Dec 7, 2023 05:27
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https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1732517969756819763 lol people are insane
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Dec 7, 2023 05:45
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mcmagic posted:https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1732517969756819763 Is the GM position filled first?
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Dec 7, 2023 06:26
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No thank you the Texans have had enough of ~The Patriot Way~
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Dec 7, 2023 06:35
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mcmagic posted:https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1732517969756819763 YES
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Dec 7, 2023 06:46
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Kirios posted:No thank you the Texans have had enough of ~The Patriot Way~ casario is like the only pats coaching or FO higher who is doing a decent job.
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Dec 7, 2023 06:51
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mcmagic posted:https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1732517969756819763 Yes
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Dec 7, 2023 07:30
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I think the more appropriate question is "do you want the 2024 version of Belichick that completely whiffed on his last QB project and seems more or less checked out at this point?"
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Dec 7, 2023 08:48
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