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John Charity Spring
Nov 4, 2009

SCREEEEE
I always bring it up (probably multiple times in this thread alone) but my favourite thing about Civ Beyond Earth is that the faction leaders have almost zero personality, only a handful of diplomacy lines, and one of the few lines that the leader of the African Union has is "A village was never ruined by trade". Which is, for starters, a weird orientalist conception of what 'African' will mean even two hundred years in the future, but also Africa is surely a key example of a continent being ruined by trade lol

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Megamissen
Jul 19, 2022

any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

gradenko_2000 posted:

Civ 3 probably has the worst ICS disease of the entire series, and requires very specific min-maxing strategies at higher levels to overcome the idiosyncrasies of the design as it interacts with the AI bonuses, but I'll always be a fan of how it dealt with combat, and particularly artillery as the best its ever been.

bombing railways to slow down enemy movement was neat

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

Instant railway movement is also a cool concept that I wished had returned.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

You can instantly move troops between rail stations in Humankind.

I think in civ 6 you can move units between airports?

WT Wally
Feb 19, 2004

tatankatonk posted:

I just got a Steam Deck! Anybody know of any strategy games that control particularly well on it?

late reply but I've been playing ultimate general civil war on mine lately. Controls pretty well, and it's the sort of game where it's easy to just suspend the steam deck if you need to, then pick right back up where you were later.

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

palindrome posted:

In the SMAC lore, is it confirmed that earth is completely destroyed and depopulated? I enjoy a sci Fi twist where enlightened colonists leave earth assuming it's doomed, but the teeming mass of humanity manages to survive and eventually claw back to some level of technology. The earth survivors might even have some resentment toward the opportunistic/cowardly defectors that left them to die.

I like that that's all in the background lore of Lancer

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3
Nov 15, 2003
Alpha Centauri is where Earth sent all the worst people on the planet. They don't want to talk to them. They don't want them back.

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.
So basically the Star Trek episode Space Seed, the one where they introduced Khan.

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

KomradeX posted:

I like that that's all in the background lore of Lancer

the background lore of lancer does it great, picking up this thread several thousand years after the Anthropocene collapse
code:
As they nurtured this new humanity to
gentle coexistence with their world, some of Union’s planners and administrators began to look
beyond: out, towards the depths of space. Old records spoke of inhabited worlds and distant
stations — of ancestors, who escaped to the stars.

Never a priority to Union before, the stars beyond the sky took on new meaning: humanity might
not be alone. With approval from the united communities of Earth, whose representatives formed
Union’s Central Committee, Union began to work on reaching those stars. Around Earth, Union
found dormant satellites strung in orbit, ancient shipyards hanging in space. On Luna, Union
found dusty colonies, empty but for mummified remains of the people who once lived there. And
back on Earth, Union found charts, logs, flight plans, trajectories. Union found and thawed the
old telescopes, radio towers, and laser communication suites preserved in ice on mountaintops
and in high places all over the world. They pointed them to the stars, turned them on, and
waited.

The first messages arrived almost immediately, and with them came Union’s third great trauma.
It was the voices of Old Humanity, thousands of years ancient and long dead, carried on radio
waves garbled by radiation, time, and transit, crying out to their home for help. Lost souls that
begged for aid, for guidance, for their loved ones. Thousands of years of messages, recorded
and playing on endless, decaying loops for the survivors to hear.

This was the voice of Old Humanity Union had never expected: a desperate cry for help, a lonely
gasp as the air ran out. A plea, unanswered, as the light grew dim.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:

Alpha Centauri is where Earth sent all the worst people on the planet. They don't want to talk to them. They don't want them back.

Other way around.

FrancisFukyomama
Feb 4, 2019

what was the deal with alien crossfire, were the two alien factions colonists sent by the race that built Alpha Centauri or were they the last remnants the way humans were? I remeber that they say something about the last planetary ascension was an apocalyptic event for them which is supported by them having go through the whole tech tree again but also their victory condition was sending a signal to their home planet to teleport in a massive armada?

I seem to remember that the only expansion faction that actually had an interesting ideology was the free drones but they were also basically just the space IWW

Pantaloon Pontiff
Jun 25, 2023

FrancisFukyomama posted:

what was the deal with alien crossfire, were the two alien factions colonists sent by the race that built Alpha Centauri or were they the last remnants the way humans were? I remeber that they say something about the last planetary ascension was an apocalyptic event for them which is supported by them having go through the whole tech tree again but also their victory condition was sending a signal to their home planet to teleport in a massive armada?

Neither - their race is called the Progenitors, and has been around for a long time. Long ago they created the manifold expirements (the planet in the game is the sixth manifold) and possibly the planet itself. Their core society was very regimented and static, with a lot of ritual and regulation, but split into a civil war when a chunk of the society decided that they didn't like all of the restrictions and decided to pursue more individual power and ambition. The Manifold Caretakers represent the traditional society, and Usurpers are the rebelling part. Both landed on planet to pursue their own goals, the Usurpers to use the planet for a planetary transcendence and the Caretarkers to stop them because that would disrupt the manifold experiments.

I don't think it's ever clearly explained why they're such small groups, I think the idea is that the Usurpers are a small group trying a wild plan and the caretakers were sent to investigate, then they're not able to call for larger reinforcements because the manifold is acting weird. (For example, the caretakers are surprised that native life attacks them, since it's not supposed to be able to).

The SMAC Wiki has writeups on each of them:
https://alphacentauri.fandom.com/wiki/Manifold_Caretakers
https://alphacentauri.fandom.com/wiki/Manifold_Usurpers

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

FrancisFukyomama posted:

what was the deal with alien crossfire, were the two alien factions colonists sent by the race that built Alpha Centauri or were they the last remnants the way humans were? I remeber that they say something about the last planetary ascension was an apocalyptic event for them which is supported by them having go through the whole tech tree again but also their victory condition was sending a signal to their home planet to teleport in a massive armada?

I seem to remember that the only expansion faction that actually had an interesting ideology was the free drones but they were also basically just the space IWW

The Progenitors were an ancient alien civilization. They're the ones who built the technology found on Alpha Centauri, the obelisks, the borehole cluster, any alien artifacts you find, and the manifold nexus. They knew about the potential for Planet to experience a transcendence event, which they call a Flowering. One of these Flowerings went terribly wrong (or terribly right?) in the past and this caused the Progenitors to shut down the experiment. This split the Progenitors into two factions and caused a civil war, probably a classic "War in Heaven" type scenario. I believe both factions are still around since both alien factions can win a victory by calling in fleet reinforcements. The Caretakers represent the conservative faction that is determined never to repeat Tau Ceti while the Usurpers represent the faction that thinks power is worth any risk.

Caretaker Lular H'minee "Sacrifice : Life" posted:

Tau Ceti Flowering: Horrors visited upon neighboring systems must never be repeated. Therefore: if it means the end of our evolution as a species, so be it.

Usurper Judaa Marr "Courage : To Question" posted:

Risks of Flowering: considerable. But rewards of godhood: who can measure?

Pantaloon Pontiff posted:

Neither - their race is called the Progenitors, and has been around for a long time. Long ago they created the manifold expirements (the planet in the game is the sixth manifold) and possibly the planet itself. Their core society was very regimented and static, with a lot of ritual and regulation, but split into a civil war when a chunk of the society decided that they didn't like all of the restrictions and decided to pursue more individual power and ambition. The Manifold Caretakers represent the traditional society, and Usurpers are the rebelling part. Both landed on planet to pursue their own goals, the Usurpers to use the planet for a planetary transcendence and the Caretarkers to stop them because that would disrupt the manifold experiments.

I got the impression that it was only the Caretakers that were highly regimented and static. We know very little about the original Progenitors but we do know that they created the massive manifold experiments, the Caretakers would never dream of doing anything like that. I always thought that the highly regimented nature of the Caretakers was a reaction to the disaster caused by the experiments of the original Progenitor society.

Usurper Judaa Marr is basically a cross between Zakharov and Santiago while Caretaker Lular H'minee is a cross between Miriam and Deidre.

BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 06:00 on Dec 7, 2023

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


aliens were the thing that was absolutely not necessary for ac's plot and it ruins it retroactively

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022
On to the Cha Dawn, Alpha Centauri's weakest faction.

But first a few pieces of advice for new players. Turn off "Voiceovers stop when popup closed" in the preferences, this will let the tech/facility voiceovers continue even after you close the popup. I think this is more immersive. I would also recommend turning on "Confirm odds before attacking", this lets you examine the odds and various modifiers before attacking an enemy unit. Finally, a piece of advice on using Stockpile Energy. Never use Stockpile Energy, it's incredibly inefficient.

Prophet Cha Dawn, "Planet Rising" posted:

Mankind has been blind for thousands of years—for all of its history. We have come to a place whose wonders are a hundred-fold more amazing than anything on Earth. Around us is clear evidence of the will of a higher power. I bring the Vision to the blind eyes of men. I bring the Word to the deaf ears of men. I will make them see it. I will make them hear it.

Cha Dawn, the first expansion faction I'm looking at. No promises that I'll ever look at the others, I just saw chance to make Cha Dawn interesting. Cha Dawn is probably the weakest faction of all 14. He's got a +2 Planet bonus and not much else to speak of. His mindworms also get the the police bonus and eventually he gets free brood pits. In exchanges he gets the harsh penalties of -1 Industry and -1 Economy. He's probably the best at pulling of an early game Mind Worm rush attack but can't do much else.

I decided to make Cha Dawn the Xenofungus faction as I made Deidre is the Forest faction but to a greater extent. Behold my changes.

quote:

^+2 PLANET: {Devoted to promoting native growth}
^-2 INDUSTRY: {Difficulty in using Planet's bounty for human technology}
^-2 ECON: {Disinterested in wealth and its trappings}
^Free BROOD PIT with discovery of Centauri Genetics
^Mind Worms do double police duty: {Fear and reverence for native life}
^+1 Nutrients in fungus squares
^+3 Minerals in fungus squares
^May not use {Free Market} economics.
^No penalties from {Green} economics.

That's right, a full +3 Minerals in Xenofungus. He starts the game getting 2 Nutrients and 3 Minerals from xenofungus squares. That's a massive bonus but it's offset by the -2 Industry and Economy. I've run the numbers and if I did this correctly he should be better than most factions in producing things but worse than the Free Drones throughout most of the game. I ran the numbers with the Free Drones on Forests and Cha Dawn on Xenofungus and with max available Industry at that point in the tech tree and with Energy converted to Minerals at 2 to 1 (same as hurrying a production). Cha Dawn only becomes better than the Free Drones with the Tier 13 (Matter Transmission). Cha Dawn will become overpowered with the Manifold Harmonics (Bonus resources in Xenofungus) or with enough of the late game techs but the game is usually already decided by then. I think of it as Cha Dawn starting to get the benefits of Ascent to Transcendence early. Oddly enough there is precedent for something like this, Pravin Lal gets to win a diplomatic victory easier. You can also theoretically pull off spectacular come from behind victories. The only part of the game I'm worried about is the early game, he may be overpowered there.

I knew I wanted to make Cha Dawn a fungus based faction so it was a question of what resource bonuses he would get. We already have Food + Energy (Farm+Collectors) and Minerals + Energy (Boreholes) but there's no real Nutrient+Minerals combo (maybe Kelp + Mining Platform with Aquafarm and Subsea Trunkline and Advanced Ecological Engineering). Additionally, I really thought Minerals are underused in the game compared to Energy (which is overused) so I made Cha Dawn a Mineral-rich but energy poor faction. I feel like this will let you mirror Planet itself. You'll play as a highly diffuse faction that's productive but has difficulty with focusing on a single area (due to your expensive hurrying and lack of energy) and you're highly reliant on research while not being too good at it.

There is a faction in a different game that is surprisingly similar, the Wild Walkers of Endless Legend. They're elves that get extra industry and combat bonuses in forests.

So Xenofungus, this type of gameplay was probably never intended by the devs. Xenofungus doesn't seem to be affected by anything except your Xenofungus bonuses. You don't get any bonus from tile bonuses, rivers, landmarks, +2 Econ, or the Merchant Exchange. Forests benefit from all of that. One thing that you can do with fungus that you can't do with forests is put it on the water, so watch your rear end "Captain" Svensgaard.

We'll see how he plays as. I'll be replacing Morgan with Cha Dawn and trying him out. I'll report back and may or may not post some screenshots.

Here's the most updated version of my mod. I also made some slight changes to Santiago, I'll detail them later.

BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 09:01 on Dec 7, 2023

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

What do you think about the factions in Endless Space 2?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/SorenJohnson/status/1732608515741499562

https://twitter.com/irockgnomes/status/1728152091636670551

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Frosted Flake posted:

What do you think about the factions in Endless Space 2?

I love them. You would probably not be surprised to hear that I was inspired by their uniqueness in doing my own factions mod. They're all playing the same game but they're playing it differently. My two favorites would be Horatio and the Vodyani, at least in terms of gameplay. I usually play with the ESG mod which is massive a community-based rebalance mod.

Here's the prologue video to the United Empire faction for anybody interested in Endless Space 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTbS8BEa1oI

Pantaloon Pontiff
Jun 25, 2023

BearsBearsBears posted:

I got the impression that it was only the Caretakers that were highly regimented and static. We know very little about the original Progenitors but we do know that they created the massive manifold experiments, the Caretakers would never dream of doing anything like that. I always thought that the highly regimented nature of the Caretakers was a reaction to the disaster caused by the experiments of the original Progenitor society.

My read is that the 'Caretakers' weren't called that until there were Usurpers to contrast against. The core Progenitor society was almost certainly different when they created the manifold experiments, but by the time of the civil war had become very regimented, the Usurpers rebelled against the restrictions and control, and the Caretakers became the designation for the majority faction. The Usurpers talk about rejecting the strictures imposed by their society, so I think the regimentation was something society-wide, not just something done by one group.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Pantaloon Pontiff posted:

My read is that the 'Caretakers' weren't called that until there were Usurpers to contrast against. The core Progenitor society was almost certainly different when they created the manifold experiments, but by the time of the civil war had become very regimented, the Usurpers rebelled against the restrictions and control, and the Caretakers became the designation for the majority faction. The Usurpers talk about rejecting the strictures imposed by their society, so I think the regimentation was something society-wide, not just something done by one group.

It's all rather unclear. I don't think the Usurpers come from the Caretakers but they both came from the original Progenitors. I think the the stuff about "rejecting the strictures imposed by their society" is a later addition, possibly from the GURPS book for Alpha Centauri. I can't remember it from the game itself. The intro for Alien Crossfire implies that the civil war is still ongoing in a "generations-old blood feud". I guess the civil war could have started years after the Caretaker faction started imposing their will on Progenitor society. That would probably allow everything to fit together nicely.

The intro also implies they somehow lost the location of Alpha Centauri. It's only 13 light years away from Tau Ceti, there just aren't that many stars to check. There's only 29 star systems within 14 light years of earth (not counting brown dwarfs). You've got FTL travel, surely you could scrounge together 29 scout ships and just check them all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN00nq92T6g

I also get the impression from the game that the natural "Flowering" of Planet wasn't supposed to happen any time soon and it was the addition of Humans that caused the timetable to be moved up massively. The Flowering was only supposed to happen soon only in terms of geological time.

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

BearsBearsBears posted:

It's all rather unclear. I don't think the Usurpers come from the Caretakers but they both came from the original Progenitors. I think the the stuff about "rejecting the strictures imposed by their society" is a later addition, possibly from the GURPS book for Alpha Centauri. I can't remember it from the game itself. The intro for Alien Crossfire implies that the civil war is still ongoing in a "generations-old blood feud". I guess the civil war could have started years after the Caretaker faction started imposing their will on Progenitor society. That would probably allow everything to fit together nicely.

The intro also implies they somehow lost the location of Alpha Centauri. It's only 13 light years away from Tau Ceti, there just aren't that many stars to check. There's only 29 star systems within 14 light years of earth (not counting brown dwarfs). You've got FTL travel, surely you could scrounge together 29 scout ships and just check them all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN00nq92T6g

I also get the impression from the game that the natural "Flowering" of Planet wasn't supposed to happen any time soon and it was the addition of Humans that caused the timetable to be moved up massively. The Flowering was only supposed to happen soon only in terms of geological time.

To say nothing of just pointing a telescope at these systems. Planet has liquid water and a breathable atmosphere (I think), if you have FTL or fast subluminal travel anyway, that alone is worth a trip.


Oh drat cheers for the link in the comment to an interview he did with a Splinter Cell dev. I loved that series.

skooma512 has issued a correction as of 23:42 on Dec 7, 2023

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

skooma512 posted:

To say nothing of just pointing a telescope at these systems. Planet has liquid water and a breathable atmosphere (I think), if you have FTL or fast subluminal travel anyway, that alone is worth a trip.

Oh drat cheers for the link in the comment to an interview he did with a Splinter Cell dev. I loved that series.

Thats a bald faced lie, no one ever plays Civ for two or three turns than go and do something else

FrancisFukyomama
Feb 4, 2019

Brian reynolds really dropped Alpha Centauri and rise of nations then proceeded to never make a game that wasn’t a FarmVille clone ever again

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

FrancisFukyomama posted:

Brian reynolds really dropped Alpha Centauri and rise of nations then proceeded to never make a game that wasn’t a FarmVille clone ever again

Guess his favorite faction was Morgan

FrancisFukyomama
Feb 4, 2019

I looked at that dominations game he made and there’s a bunch of little touches referencing rise of nations like the unique unit lines including the exact same ahistorical units as rise of nations which would be the kind of cute nod to the original you’d see in a spiritual successor but feels different when the game has 0 of the gameplay of the original

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

skooma512 posted:

To say nothing of just pointing a telescope at these systems. Planet has liquid water and a breathable atmosphere (I think), if you have FTL or fast subluminal travel anyway, that alone is worth a trip.

Planet is supposed to have a non-breathable atmosphere because of too much nitrogen causing deadly nitrogen narcosis (this is from the manual). However, I checked the partial pressure of nitrogen that the manual gives against scuba charts and its maybe enough to cause mild euphoria but maybe not. Oxygen is at 71% of Earth's partial pressure at sea level which is about the same as Aspen, Colorado. Denver has about 80% oxygen compared to sea level, Everest base camp is about 50% and the death zone at Everest is about 33%. The mild hypoxia combined with mild nitrogen narcosis is probably not great for operating heavy machinery but it should be perfectly survivable, even for extended periods of time.


FrancisFukyomama posted:

Brian reynolds really dropped Alpha Centauri and rise of nations then proceeded to never make a game that wasn’t a FarmVille clone ever again

Rise of Legends was also very good! It's Rise of Nations but in a magical setting. Three factions, Da Vinci Italians, Arabian Djinn, and Space Mayans. It's very often forgotten about.

FrancisFukyomama
Feb 4, 2019

BearsBearsBears posted:

It's all rather unclear. I don't think the Usurpers come from the Caretakers but they both came from the original Progenitors. I think the the stuff about "rejecting the strictures imposed by their society" is a later addition, possibly from the GURPS book for Alpha Centauri. I can't remember it from the game itself. The intro for Alien Crossfire implies that the civil war is still ongoing in a "generations-old blood feud". I guess the civil war could have started years after the Caretaker faction started imposing their will on Progenitor society. That would probably allow everything to fit together nicely.

The intro also implies they somehow lost the location of Alpha Centauri. It's only 13 light years away from Tau Ceti, there just aren't that many stars to check. There's only 29 star systems within 14 light years of earth (not counting brown dwarfs). You've got FTL travel, surely you could scrounge together 29 scout ships and just check them all.

I checked out the wiki and the cutscenes and there seems to be an implication that the progenitor civ is on a galactic scale with planet just being one of their many experiments which again makes it confusing why the main civ doesn’t just come in at some point over 400 years to check up on them or why they both act like defeat of the enemy faction is a final victory over them

unless the Alpha Centauri conflict is so inconsequential to the greater civ that they don’t bother which I think a long with crossfire conclusively stating the planet’s origins kind of cheapens the main plot

Megamissen
Jul 19, 2022

any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

BearsBearsBears posted:

Rise of Legends was also very good! It's Rise of Nations but in a magical setting. Three factions, Da Vinci Italians, Arabian Djinn, and Space Mayans. It's very often forgotten about.

this post made me remember a weird rts my friend had, there was a samurai faction, a viking faction and an indiana jones-style explorer faction who had dinosaurs i think
cant remember what it was called

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

I bought ES 2 on sale but haven't had time to play. What's this Academy thing everyone is upset about?

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021

CA post med2 generally does very good research.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Frosted Flake posted:

I bought ES 2 on sale but haven't had time to play. What's this Academy thing everyone is upset about?

Did you get the Awakening DLC? That's where the problem is. The Academy is a neutral faction that's not neutral enough. They start out massively more powerful than you and can prevent you from expanding if you start near them. I think they might even expand themselves. Some of these things may have been patched out, I haven't been following.

I don't have that DLC so it's not a problem for me. You can always disable DLC in steam. I disable the Penumbra DLC most games because I don't like the hacking part (too much busywork).

Amplitude seem to have a problem where their later DLC gets more and more half-assed. This affected Endless Legend as well. I think their later DLCs might be outsourced?

Other DLC is balanced enough. I would just turn off Awakening and Penumbra if you have them, especially when you're just learning the game. You can turn them back on if you want to play that faction and that will also let you experience the features of the DLC for yourself.

I would once again recommend the ESG mod for general purposes.

BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 06:01 on Dec 8, 2023

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Megamissen posted:

this post made me remember a weird rts my friend had, there was a samurai faction, a viking faction and an indiana jones-style explorer faction who had dinosaurs i think
cant remember what it was called

Was it Paraworld? Everybody had dinosaurs in that game though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzCgZGgqPiY

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Megamissen posted:

this post made me remember a weird rts my friend had, there was a samurai faction, a viking faction and an indiana jones-style explorer faction who had dinosaurs i think
cant remember what it was called

Battle Realms?

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

My most fond dead strategy game that never made it past one game is Submarine Titans where it's two human factions duking it out underwater and some aliens who got lost on planet earth.

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Danann posted:

My most fond dead strategy game that never made it past one game is Submarine Titans where it's two human factions duking it out underwater and some aliens who got lost on planet earth.

mine is ring of red, the extremely plodding mech game in a cold war era japan that was split between north and south. units consist of a mech and a company of infantry for escort

BrotherJayne
Nov 28, 2019

atelier morgan posted:

mine is ring of red, the extremely plodding mech game in a cold war era japan that was split between north and south. units consist of a mech and a company of infantry for escort

Is that the one where the mechs shooting is a charge up mini game?

And one of the sides is distasteful prussian?

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

BrotherJayne posted:

Is that the one where the mechs shooting is a charge up mini game?

And one of the sides is distasteful prussian?

yes

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Ring of Red was cool, the robot was like a walking artillery piece and besides having tank duels against the other robot you'd also use it to fire shrapnel at the supporting troops or flares for illumination at night.

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Minenfeld!
Aug 21, 2012



Danann posted:

My most fond dead strategy game that never made it past one game is Submarine Titans where it's two human factions duking it out underwater and some aliens who got lost on planet earth.

Can get it off GOG. It's still an ok game with some interesting ideas.

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