(Thread IKs:
OwlFancier)
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I wish he'd get on a loving boat TBF E: 26 is the number of times we're going to get emergency political podium speeches before we get an election.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:23
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Ah gently caress. Benjamin Zephaniah died.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:25
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smellmycheese posted:Gone by teatime imho Do we even have time to go and buy the lettuce.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:25
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Lemurtron posted:Can anyone actually explain to me what the point of the Rwanda plan is and why the government are pushing it as seemingly the one and only Plan to end all plans? Why must it be pushed through despite all cost, decency, international law, protests and blocks by our very own courts? How is it that this alleged Plan is the only way to deal with alleged illegal immigration and processing of asylum seekers? Performative cruelty. They are trying to a: make everyone panic about foreigners and b: sate that panic by doing things like putting them on prison barges and sending them to Rwanda. Then positioning themselves as being tough and defending the nation etc etc. They can't address any actual problems because they're the cause of most of the problems in the country, so they have to invent a problem (which they're also still the cause of, capitalism requires fresh bodies and for a variety of reasons such as lack of training and poo poo pay the UK does not produce enough people willing or able to do the work) and then sell people on a flashy solution to it. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 12:26
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EvilHawk posted:Calling an election now is suicide. They have nothing. Polling is in the toilet. This isn't a popular plan at all (I think I saw some polling on it that suggested, at best, people were neutral towards it). Oh I'm not saying it would be a good idea - just that I can't see their polling getting better and I'm honestly not sure that being able to say the flights have started would help. For the true believers, as long as the flights don't start they can be imagined as perfect and "effective". If the flights start there's the risk of them being blocked, which loses him even that. As it turned out, he just wanted to whine.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:26
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The big brain technocrat smart guy has now created a situation where everyone hates him. GB News and The Mail Gammons are angry he’s not being insanely facist enough and everyone normal is repelled by the whole thing and/or wish he’d shut up about boats and fix the country.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:27
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It really is just that loving stupid. I daresay there are kickbacks and mutual backscratching and whatnot going on too, but yes, at base, JTFS.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:27
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Isn't one of them invested in building the houses in Rwanda or something?
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Dec 7, 2023 12:29
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Honesly think they only choose Rwanda because of the genocide there, so it sounds like a euphemism for what they really want to do.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:38
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Necrothatcher posted:Ah gently caress. Benjamin Zephaniah died. poo poo. Well that's certainly a damper on things. Also rather fitting that such an important voice on racism dies on Rishi's Klan Konference I day.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:39
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They chose Rwanda because it was close enough to Madagascar but plausibly deniable.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:40
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Lemurtron posted:Can anyone actually explain to me what the point of the Rwanda plan is and why the government are pushing it as seemingly the one and only Plan to end all plans? Why must it be pushed through despite all cost, decency, international law, protests and blocks by our very own courts? How is it that this alleged Plan is the only way to deal with alleged illegal immigration and processing of asylum seekers? It squares the circle of having an appealing punitive subtext to racists (we're sending them back to Africa, arf, arf), while also making it more difficult for the UK press to directly embarrass the government's management skills over any embarrassing Legionaire's disease outbreaks, supposed 'five-star hotels', etc. I'm sure there are handouts involved, but I think the point is that we've become a country that's willing to economically self-harm in order to satisfy the gut reactions of nationalists and sweep messy problems under the rug.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:42
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How much money is spent on the staff /offices processing asylum applications (and on legal fees fighting appeals)? I bet if they spent all the Rwanda/barge money on that we'd probably have cleared the entire backlog by now
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Dec 7, 2023 12:44
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It's also looking a lot like they got too far in down a variation on that old 70s scam where various African government bodies of varying de facto legitimacy would sell shares in various mines or housing ventures to gullible Western investors shortly before collapse or that they had no right to sell. Only in this modern version the government departments lacking legitimacy are coming from inside the house.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:45
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I'm hoping the Lords reject this bill and he's stuck crying about it until the election.
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Dec 7, 2023 12:50
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Tesseraction posted:I'm hoping the Lords reject this bill and he's stuck crying about it until the election. I hope he complains about Unelected Lords subverting the will of the people, while Cameron is just standing right there
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Dec 7, 2023 12:53
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Necrothatcher posted:Ah gently caress. Benjamin Zephaniah died. Urgh, The Sun publishing tributes to him, after... https://twitter.com/SunApology/status/704321967776796672 His reaction Poem "The Blinding Sun" was absolutely vicious Edit: Found it in the end, I was getting the title wrong Benjamin Zephaniah posted:
Desiderata fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 13:04
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God I miss the hope of the corbyn years so much. I really don't see a path to anything good in the near future. Keith wins by default next election and fucks around doing tory lite policies for the whole term. Tories take over again in 10 years or so. The cycle repeats. By then I'm getting on for 50. What the gently caress do we even have to look forward to as a country?
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Dec 7, 2023 13:05
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ThomasPaine posted:God I miss the hope of the corbyn years so much. I really don't see a path to anything good in the near future. Keith wins by default next election and fucks around doing tory lite policies for the whole term. Tories take over again in 10 years or so. The cycle repeats. By then I'm getting on for 50. What the gently caress do we even have to look forward to as a country? The Tories will probably take over again in 5 years, so you'll only be 45 mate.
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Dec 7, 2023 13:06
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ThomasPaine posted:God I miss the hope of the corbyn years so much. I really don't see a path to anything good in the near future. Keith wins by default next election and fucks around doing tory lite policies for the whole term. Tories take over again in 10 years or so. The cycle repeats. By then I'm getting on for 50. What the gently caress do we even have to look forward to as a country? Hotter weather 
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Dec 7, 2023 13:07
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Lemurtron posted:Can anyone actually explain to me what the point of the Rwanda plan is and why the government are pushing it as seemingly the one and only Plan to end all plans? Why must it be pushed through despite all cost, decency, international law, protests and blocks by our very own courts? How is it that this alleged Plan is the only way to deal with alleged illegal immigration and processing of asylum seekers? The other answers are totally correct, but there is also an element of responding to the supposed problems/dangers of the current system. The tories and media have created a pervasive belief that asylum seekers are chancers, criminals, and either hiding behind human rights legislation or simply melting into the general population, but in any event making themselves immune to removal even when they don't get leave to remain. By shipping them to Rwanda rather than letting them stay in the country (even in custody or with limited freedom of movement) the idea is that these problems will be eliminated. They can't vanish into the population, can't commit crimes, if they abscond it's Rwanda's problem, and if their application is denied they're powerless to do anything about it like appeal or have a community that protects them from removal. Also, as official government policy, changing becomes a humiliating climbdown and a government-ending u-turn so they've dug thrir heels in as deeply as they can rather than just saying "We inherited a stupid moron's idea and we won't be doing that." (So yes, it is that loving stupid, because it's all based on lies and an excuse to be cruel and the time and money pissed up the wall on it could have been/could be used on almost anything else to better effect.)
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Dec 7, 2023 13:10
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Microplastics posted:Hotter weather Lol can't wait to see the burgeoning English vineyard industry (I can't afford any of the wine) The UK is probably one of the better placed countries to deal with climate change mind while lots of Asia etc becomes borderline uninhabitable. There is zero justice in the world.
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Dec 7, 2023 13:12
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ThomasPaine posted:Keith wins by default next election and fucks around doing tory lite Why do you assume he's going to be Tory lite? If anything, he's going to be more authoritarian and fash.
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Dec 7, 2023 13:15
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fuctifino posted:Why do you assume he's going to be Tory lite? If anything, he's going to be more authoritarian and fash. I mean yeah, probably, but he'll at least look sad doing it and might throw an extra few quid at the NHS, I guess.
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Dec 7, 2023 13:16
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Farage rides the wave of popularity off the back of eating eyelids and anuses in the jungle and becomes PM somehow
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Dec 7, 2023 13:16
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ThomasPaine posted:I mean yeah, probably, but he'll at least look sad doing it and might throw an extra few quid at the NHS, I guess. He'll throw money at the private healthcare companies he handed the NHS to.
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Dec 7, 2023 13:19
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smellmycheese posted:The big brain technocrat smart guy has now created a situation where everyone hates him. GB News and The Mail Gammons are angry he’s not being insanely facist enough and everyone normal is repelled by the whole thing and/or wish he’d shut up about boats and fix the country. "I'll just quietly get on with my work and surely everyone will see and appreciate what a diligent job I'm doing" is the sort of attitude I'd take if I somehow became Prime Minister lol. You'd think Sunak would have some highly paid advisors warning him that life doesn't actually work like that and he's got to spend most of his day talking to and persuading people.
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Dec 7, 2023 13:23
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Ms Adequate posted:The other answers are totally correct, but there is also an element of responding to the supposed problems/dangers of the current system. The tories and media have created a pervasive belief that asylum seekers are chancers, criminals, and either hiding behind human rights legislation or simply melting into the general population, but in any event making themselves immune to removal even when they don't get leave to remain. It's also worth mentioning that this is all self inflicted, which is quite funny. Austerity destroyed the ability for the home office/civil service to act fast. Brexit destroyed the ability for them to blame Europe for all immigration woes. Now they're just left with flinging poo poo at the wall and scaring old people into thinking we're being invaded.
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Dec 7, 2023 13:23
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Desiderata posted:His reaction Poem "The Blinding Sun" was absolutely vicious drat that's a great poem
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Dec 7, 2023 13:29
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What really gets me is that I genuinely don't understand why our politicians are so committed to everything being terrible forever. Some of them are just in it for the corruption gravy train, sure, but at least some must actually go into politics because they believe in something and want to make the country a better place. It's so nakedly obvious that there are ways of doing that, but they poo poo the bed at the idea. I'm not even saying full communism now (though that would be nice). We literally have Norway and Iceland etc as our neighbours showing us a system that's not perfect but is exponentially better than ours, and still allows for obscenely rich people to exist. What is the actual argument against that beyond 'a few rich people might have a pay a bit more tax'? How is this not obvious to your average Joe on the street? The current trajectory of the UK benefits literally no one but a handful of already insanely wealthy people. There's so much anger that any competent left wing politician could capitalise on, and they'd go down as a loving hero if they pulled it off. How is that not an attractive proposition? Does no one want to be the 21st C Attlee. I know he was bad on lots of issues but his legacy is just evidence of how low the bar is. Why are they all so content to sit around treating politics like it's nothing more than the chance to be the manager and get a big desk? Idk, I'm feeling it today for some reason.
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Dec 7, 2023 13:33
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I just watched the Q&A of Rishi's press conference for a second time and I can't stop laughing at the little dwarf's inability to accept criticism. He really is a petulant and spoilt little child, and it makes me uncontrollably laugh. It's loving wonderful. The press were trolling him with very short and very simple answers, and then just letting him poo poo himself and rant behind his little podium. ThomasPaine posted:What really gets me is that I genuinely don't understand why our politicians are so committed to everything being terrible forever. Simple answer: All of the parties answer to capitalism. Our democracy is a charade. fuctifino fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 13:36
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Remember that there are less than 400 MPs in parliament. There's plenty of positions to fill lower down from which the right people can be identified and the good ones can be blocked from the levers of power.
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Dec 7, 2023 13:37
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The political system is process that filters out people who want to make things better. If you have that kind of attitude you don't get into positions of actual power, you end up sitting on the back bench making hopeless symbolic motions. If you do somehow get into power, the rest of the system closes in to block you, which is what you saw with corbyn. Ultimately no, the vast majority of people in politics do not want things to get better, they are ideologically committed to things that do not work but which they, personally, do not suffer from because they're landlords, they're millionaires, they're in the circles where personal advancement comes from toadying up to the super wealthy. I don't think they care about the acclaim of the masses because fundamentally they I don't think they like them, they see them as something to be governed, to be used and directed, not as things that should have agency of their own. Which is a worldview that I think is very common among people with jobs that give them power over others. It is baked into the structure of every aspect of our society. The people below you can have views but ultimately you're the one making the decision. And you do not want them to be able to make decisions of their own. That's why they don't like unions, they don't like protests, they don't like people choosing their own candidates, they don't like people just getting money from the welfare state without qualifiers on what they do and what they spend it on, and it's why you need a loving license for your gender and everyone needs ID cards and omnipresent surveillance. People aren't qualified to make decisions, that's what we're for. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 13:38
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By the time anyone is selectable to MP level, the whips will already have a folder of blackmail material on them.
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Dec 7, 2023 13:39
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The slow ideological death of the Labour Party makes me very sad, but I suppose it's kinda funny that the guy who gets to put the final nail in the coffin is called Keir
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Dec 7, 2023 13:40
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OwlFancier posted:The political system is process that filters out people who want to make things better. If you have that kind of attitude you don't get into positions of actual power, you end up sitting on the back bench making hopeless symbolic motions. I don't think you're wrong, but I feel like something has changed in the neoliberal era. You look back at the twentieth century and you've got actual committed politicians arguing about ideology all over the place. But now it does just seem to be about who gets to sit in the fancy chair. I suppose if I'm being honest with myself I'd tie that all into the collapse of the USSR and the subsequent global hegemony of free market capitalism. As far as I can tell extraparliamentary movements are probably the only option, but the process of toppling established power structures is a huge gamble and generally an awful experience even if you win, so it's hardly something to look forward to. Not that the British public in 2023 even has remotely the level of class consciousness that would be needed for that anyway!
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Dec 7, 2023 13:59
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When pigfucker came back recently, didn’t someone confirm a lord can be PM? If Rishi is ousted, then maybe cometh the hour, cometh the man? Has anyone checked to see if #DaveyCambo is trending?
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Dec 7, 2023 14:03
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I can't speak for how far back the tendency goes but I think for as long as I've been alive the focus of the british state has been exercising control first and foremost. I would probably suggest that this has roots well back into the empire for places outside the home islands, but even then I would ask was there ever not a strong opposition in the state to things that empowered the common people? They locked up levelers, diggers, chartists, suffragettes after all. And hell not even the entire archipelago, the state was absolutely willing to treat people outside of a pretty small area of england that way too. It's hard for me to see it as anything but a very old tradition of the british state. Perhaps what you might be observing in the recent past is the rare occasion where there is enough popular groundswell that the state can't get its way 100%. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Dec 7, 2023 |
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Dec 7, 2023 14:06
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Sanford posted:cometh the hour, cometh the man? 
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Dec 7, 2023 14:13
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Sanford posted:When pigfucker came back recently, didn’t someone confirm a lord can be PM? If Rishi is ousted, then maybe cometh the hour, cometh the man? The British Constitution is nonsense, you could be PM if they really decided it should be so. It's one of those things where technically appointing the PM comes from the Royal Prerogative & while that could be challenged in law & the point is that hasn't happened. You'd like to hope if the monarch actually acted on this poo poo & decided to unilaterally dissolve parliament or appoint someone of their choice as PM we'd end up throwing them away very quickly afterwards but it's Britain, who the gently caress knows?
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Dec 7, 2023 14:14
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