(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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RedSky posted:Is there any substance whatsoever to that article?? If the Chinese government actually was unstable you'd let them get on with it quietly As it is this piece of what is essentially political fan fiction, can't decide whether it thinks its good or bad that Xi is 'losing control' My favourite part is that they don't believe people can die of heart attacks if they have good medical care and that heart attacks are the same as falling out of windows in Russia.
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Dec 8, 2023 14:30
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| # ? May 26, 2024 15:37 |
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vibes-based journalism is accurate because it reassures our readers that actually, American hegemony isn't being threatened by China, because they're on the verge of collapsing any day now never mind that FT article from the other day which gave credible evidence that China is doing materially better than the US, their vibes are just far too off for it to be correct
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Dec 8, 2023 14:55
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Orange Devil posted:My favorite part is that "stage of economic growth" implies that China, too, will become a service economy running on spreadsheets eventually. Sure hope nobody in the world needs steel for anything when that happens though. I mean, they are correct. Neoliberalism and deindustrialization are stages of capitalist development. China, however, is not capitalist.
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Dec 8, 2023 16:04
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Whoops turns out the imf underestimated Chinese economic growth by a whole percent, who'd have guessed
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Dec 8, 2023 16:11
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GOD you guys will not shut up about the 1%!
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Dec 8, 2023 16:12
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crepeface posted:the stuff surroundiing qin gang's demotion is true afaik. i assume there's lots of true facts in the article, but the conclusions have only tenuous connections to the premise or require additional arguments that are left unstated like "china's economy is collapsing" and "not making public appearances = disappeared" Regarde Aduck posted:If the Chinese government actually was unstable you'd let them get on with it quietly Yeah, first thing that stood out to me is that there such purges in that dramatic way would be addressed somewhere. People's Daily and China Daily have the meeting of the Central Committee that, among other topics, discussed anti-corruption, party discipline and improvements to the enforcement mechanisms. google translate from People's Daily, slight editing of mine quote:The meeting emphasized that the disciplinary inspection and supervision agencies must thoroughly study and implement Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era, unswervingly promote comprehensive and strict party governance, and continue to deepen the improvement of work style, discipline and anti-corruption. It is necessary to strengthen political supervision, promote the whole party to deeply understand the decisive significance of the "two establishments", resolutely implement the "two safeguards", and resolutely and effectively defend the party's unity. It is necessary to continue to vigorously and in-depth promote the anti-corruption struggle, carry out special rectification of relatively prominent industrial, systemic, and regional corruption problems, seriously investigate and deal with the "corruption of flies and ants" around the people, persist on investigating bribery, deepen the source control, strengthen the construction of a culture of integrity in the new era, and resolutely eradicate conditions that breed corruption in the soil.
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Dec 8, 2023 16:24
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Meanwhile we can't even get the US president to purge the previous administration's postmaster general.
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Dec 8, 2023 16:33
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The only negative thing I can say about xi is that his writing is very dry
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Dec 8, 2023 16:33
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Xi's tenure definitely went leftward and it seems like party discipline and organization became big time topics to have the means to tackle more regional, local things. From a very shallow reading, my guess is that careerists became sort of a given with Deng (as a collateral effect of the new economic organization) but would have to be dealt with once Chinese socialism advanced to a certain point. btw, I would love a hefty Marxist takedown about corruption in China. There certainly exists some good stuff already by the big schools of Marxism there, but probably are all in Mandarin 
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Dec 8, 2023 16:47
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Grapplejack posted:The only negative thing I can say about xi is that his writing is very dry That's how you know he is the true inheritor of Marxism
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Dec 8, 2023 16:48
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Dec 8, 2023 16:49
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Xi ftw
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Dec 8, 2023 17:03
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https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-i...ng-us-sanctions
Cao Ni Ma has issued a correction as of 19:32 on Dec 8, 2023 |
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Dec 8, 2023 18:46
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Meanwhile we can't even get the US president to purge the previous administration's postmaster general. don't boo vote
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Dec 8, 2023 19:32
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Meanwhile we can't even get the US president to purge the previous administration's postmaster general. Western elites believe any change in the status quo is a negative, any action or movement is wrong. We can't build a train - companies do that, when they get subsidies. You can't change directors in a government post - lobbyists do that
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Dec 8, 2023 20:33
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i actually saw this firsthand when i was school. i screwed up picking classes one semester so i got put in some economic classes where it was dealing with older students that were already working so i had a couple reasonable professors, but i also had some of the regular classes. let me give you an example of what that's like. professor gives an example of a lifesaving drug, and then posits to the class, how do we as government get somebody to make and distribute this drug? of course i stick my hand up and say "hire some pharmacists, work out a distribution strategy, etc"......prof cuts me off. "you can't do that, that's socialism" most the class laughs at my temerity and stupidity! see, he was looking for some sort of subsidy program or tax rebate strategy to get a company to do it. they really think extra steps into a thing where each person gets a cut is better than actually just doing the thing as quickly and cheaper as possible. even the production of a life saving drug!
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Dec 8, 2023 23:03
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China is capitalist, it is just a form of state capitalism where the government has dominant ownership of industrial and property rights are conditional rather than fundamental. It is arguably still aspiring for socialism, but right now focused on "moderate prosperity." Russia in contrast, is more somewhere between liberal and state capitalism, although it is veering in a direction closer to China even if socialism is not a long-term goal. In the case of Russia if anything the dream was to have liberal capitalism...but reality forced convergence to state capitalism. The West is just full neoliberal now and the state is simply a placeholder for future looting.
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Dec 9, 2023 01:35
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China is building communism under the guidance of a communist party which has implemented a dictatorship of the proletariat op.
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Dec 9, 2023 01:37
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Ardennes posted:China is capitalist, it is just a form of state capitalism where the government has dominant ownership of industrial and property rights are conditional rather than fundamental. It is arguably still aspiring for socialism, but right now focused on "moderate prosperity." The bowtie rotates unceasingly
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Dec 9, 2023 01:42
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Ardennes posted:China is capitalist, it is just a form of state capitalism where the government has dominant ownership of industrial and property rights are conditional rather than fundamental. It is arguably still aspiring for socialism, but right now focused on "moderate prosperity." china already achieved moderate prosperity and has shifted to becoming a modern socialist country in all respects. i hope you’re trolling with a syq here and not actually spinning bowtie posting efb
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Dec 9, 2023 01:43
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In the dimly lit room, the bowtie lay dormant for years, a forgotten relic of another era. Its once-vibrant colors had faded, surrendering to the relentless passage of time. Dust settled upon its fabric, and the room echoed with the hollow silence of neglect. Then, one quiet evening, as shadows danced on the walls, a subtle hum emerged. The bowtie, like a slumbering creature stirred by an ancient call, began to tremble. Slowly, almost reluctantly, it lifted from its static repose. Threads creaked and fibers groaned as the bowtie unfurled its essence, embracing the awakening. With an ethereal grace, it started to spin, a spectral dance that defied the years of stillness. The air pulsated with a quiet energy as the bowtie, once forgotten, spun again in the dance of a resurgent memory.
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Dec 9, 2023 01:47
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Lmao
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Dec 9, 2023 01:49
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Ardennes posted:China is capitalist, it is just a form of state capitalism where the government has dominant ownership of industrial and property rights are conditional rather than fundamental. It is arguably still aspiring for socialism, but right now focused on "moderate prosperity." Some would say China has a mixed economy on the track of industrial capitalism developing into socialism, while the West has adopted financialized capitalism degenerating into feudalism.
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Dec 9, 2023 01:51
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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:degenerating into feudalism. not even the good functional old school one with actual social contracts smdh
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Dec 9, 2023 02:06
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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:Some would say China has a mixed economy on the track of industrial capitalism developing into socialism, while the West has adopted financialized capitalism degenerating into feudalism. naw peasants under feudalism worked much less hours than the west does now, it's just degenerating into catabolic collapse
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Dec 9, 2023 02:06
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And honestly state capitalism isn't even a good description of China's relationship to the means of production. Private enterprise forced into support of socialism is the biggest chunk of productive labor
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Dec 9, 2023 02:10
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Yeah I have come to the conclusion that "state capitalism" is not a good name for China's economy. You would use it to describe something with a 60/40 split like Russia or SK. But China is closer to a 50/50 split in terms of actual state control, and in emergency, the state has the mechanisms to switch to a 40 private 60 state owned model very fast (see the 2 covid years). But I think its Beijing's wish to not give a brand to its own model and doesn't advertise it in any way, so I guess we can wait for scholars to give it a proper study 20 years down the road. After some other countries actually start following China's economic model on their own.
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Dec 9, 2023 02:25
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I thought they branded it socialism with Chinese characteristics.
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Dec 9, 2023 02:33
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Honky Mao posted:The bowtie rotates unceasingly Not even Beijing would say they have achieved socialism, it isn’t a put down but simply they are not in that stage of development. Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:Some would say China has a mixed economy on the track of industrial capitalism developing into socialism, while the West has adopted financialized capitalism degenerating into feudalism. Yeah, the goal is socialism but the present is state capitalism i.e mixed economy with dominant state authority. ikanreed posted:And honestly state capitalism isn't even a good description of China's relationship to the means of production. Private enterprise forced into support of socialism is the biggest chunk of productive labor It is still a form of capitalism, social relations are still guided by capitalism even if there is a urge for greater. stephenthinkpad posted:Yeah I have come to the conclusion that "state capitalism" is not a good name for China's economy. You would use it to describe something with a 60/40 split like Russia or SK. But China is closer to a 50/50 split in terms of actual state control, and in emergency, the state has the mechanisms to switch to a 40 private 60 state owned model very fast (see the 2 covid years). At the end of the day it is still a mixed economy, so it needs a name. Also “moderate prosperity” is a specific term used by the party, the goal is 2035.
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Dec 9, 2023 02:57
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I thought they branded it socialism with Chinese characteristics. 
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Dec 9, 2023 03:02
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isn't the origin of 'state capitalist' just a phrase that the european socdems used to say that the USSR was doing socialism wrong that got picked up by the west to attribute successes of communist states to capitalism?
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Dec 9, 2023 03:02
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crepeface posted:isn't the origin of 'state capitalist' just a phrase that the european socdems used to say that the USSR was doing socialism wrong that got picked up by the west to attribute successes of communist states to capitalism? I learned it from do not eat, so I know it's good leftism
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Dec 9, 2023 03:05
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crepeface posted:isn't the origin of 'state capitalist' just a phrase that the european socdems used to say that the USSR was doing socialism wrong that got picked up by the west to attribute successes of communist states to capitalism? no, lenin himself described the NEP as state capitalism
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Dec 9, 2023 03:07
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lobster shirt posted:no, lenin himself described the NEP as state capitalism isn't he using it differently to the way it's commonly used today? that is, 'a transitory state to full socialism' rather than 'china is cheating at capitalism'? i feel like that's why people hate hearing the phrase to describe china. also, they seem to be accelerating to implementing more socialist policies like in real estate, tech, health care. at what point do we stop saying 'state capitalist' and start saying 'state socialist' or 'state communist' or just... 'communist'?
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Dec 9, 2023 03:18
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crepeface posted:isn't he using it differently to the way it's commonly used today? that is, 'a transitory state to full socialism' rather than 'china is cheating at capitalism'? yeah china had a true, world historical and properly romantic revolution, has the worlds largest economy, is the world leader in just about every field other than computer chips which will change soon, has eradicated extreme poverty, has built essentially all of worlds infrastructure, has fought the west to exhaustion without firing a shot, has outlived the soviet union and has taken its revolution further than any other example in history, but dumbass western leftists still can’t see past their own racism lol
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Dec 9, 2023 03:29
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crepeface posted:isn't he using it differently to the way it's commonly used today? that is, 'a transitory state to full socialism' rather than 'china is cheating at capitalism'? "state capitalism" as a term would also largely apply to the European great power states as they were transitioning governments between ww1 and 2, and especially once the wars kicked off as governments almost immediately seized military factories and food production and took a much heavier hand in workforce things in order to balance conscription and industrial manpower. It's broad as a descriptor and China fits into it because of that; I assume most Chinese scholars would agree with the label, or prefer "state socialist" which is basically the same thing with a different political outlook. It boils down to the same thing though; the state has a very heavy hand in organizing / owning industrial capital.
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Dec 9, 2023 03:32
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Grapplejack posted:"state capitalism" as a term would also largely apply to the European great power states as they were transitioning governments between ww1 and 2, and especially once the wars kicked off as governments almost immediately seized military factories and food production and took a much heavier hand in workforce things in order to balance conscription and industrial manpower. It's broad as a descriptor and China fits into it because of that; I assume most Chinese scholars would agree with the label, or prefer "state socialist" which is basically the same thing with a different political outlook. It boils down to the same thing though; the state has a very heavy hand in organizing / owning industrial capital. Yea, but Chinese state owned companies and the government don't take a hand in man power and workface. They need to attract workers on the open market competing with the private enterprises. Typically lower wages but a more stable environment.
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Dec 9, 2023 03:47
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Lol China had actual negative consumer goods inflation this year Not just this rate of increase went down poo poo we had here
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Dec 9, 2023 03:51
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that’s called deflation, op
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Dec 9, 2023 03:53
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| # ? May 26, 2024 15:37 |
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earlier this year the deflation was because because pork prices came down like 20%, everything else was like 0.1% inflation combined. idk if that’s still true
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Dec 9, 2023 03:54
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