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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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WoodrowSkillson posted:inshallah, this war is so stupid and has gotten so many loving people killed. Its so loving horrible and depressing how many soldiers have been killed in this war on top of the civilians killed and displaced. The more concerning thing imo is that it proves that colour revolutions can be induced to fight to the death and can't be rolled back. I would expect a similar thing, liberal colour revolution paired with nazis, in Moldova, Georgia or one of the central asian republics.
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Dec 11, 2023 16:32
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I don't know enough about all the European and Central Asian countries to really say anything about how easy and permanent color revolutions would be. Would it be as strong and easy in a country less interested in Nazi hagiography and white supremacy than Ukraine? Are all the other countries in the area as broke and hosed as Ukraine, being the country with the worst economic prospects and living standards in eastern Europe? Do any of the other ones still have concepts of community and humanity or has that been eradicated by neoliberalism and replaced with dead-eyed Number worship and fetishization of fake Western ideals? Most importantly, do people keep falling for this poo poo in a world where American dominance is obviously failing and fading faster than anyone outside of China could have predicted?
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Dec 11, 2023 16:39
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Frosted Flake posted:The more concerning thing imo is that it proves that colour revolutions can be induced to fight to the death and can't be rolled back. harden your heart, lukashenko
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Dec 11, 2023 16:40
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Ardennes posted:
The timeline I'm going with is that 2024 will be the year that the cracks in the AFU and Ukraine's political leadership are no longer deniable. We are like halfway at that point already; the media shift over the summer was notable but in recent weeks outright dooming is starting to become common. But despite this the frontlines will largely remain as is 2025 is when the the whole thing comes tumbling down.
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Dec 11, 2023 16:42
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moldova is definitely worse off than ukraine. well, it was before the war started anyway, probably better to be moldova today. they probably dont need to do any color revolutions there per se because the pro-euro lib side keeps winning elections (also they had a big protest that forced out a pro russian government in 2014 iirc). anyway here is a crazy story from the nyt: https://archive.is/lIKnq
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Dec 11, 2023 16:46
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Nevil Maskelyne posted:Russia can't let the current Ukrainian state exist without a complete overhaul of everyone running it, if they don't put a friendly puppet in charge then this is all just going to happen again 5-10 years after the current war ends and Ukraine decides to build up an army again. If Ukraine runs out of elderly men and pregnant women to conscript and send to the front lines a couple years from now then Russia will start advancing properly, but in the mean time they're just forcing Ukraine to keep depopulating itself until the population hopefully turns on the government and forces the war to end. Right. Anything short of collapsing the post-Maidan Ukranian state is just Russia kicking the can down the road, again. Really not just the state - the Maidan coalition itself, from the NGO liberals to the totally-not-Nazis, needs to be stripped of its stranglehold on Ukrainian political power. So any puppet government Russia installs would have to be strong enough to withstand color revolution attempts as well as crackdown on the power bases of the coalition. This might require a transitional period where the Russian army remains in Kyiv as an occupying force.
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Dec 11, 2023 16:47
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Frosted Flake posted:The more concerning thing imo is that it proves that colour revolutions can be induced to fight to the death and can't be rolled back. Colour revolution for the urban elites and nazism for everyone else seems like a distinctly eastern European combination.
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Dec 11, 2023 16:49
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Frosted Flake posted:The more concerning thing imo is that it proves that colour revolutions can be induced to fight to the death and can't be rolled back. The silver lining is that most of those places don't have a fascist mythology that can be easily exported by a US-backed diaspora, the way Banderism was for Ukraine. And even that took sustained pushes dating back to the 80s - nearly 30 years to truly take power. Remember that the prior Orange Revolution wound up being largely inconsequential.
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Dec 11, 2023 16:51
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VoicesCanBe posted:Right. Anything short of collapsing the post-Maidan Ukranian state is just Russia kicking the can down the road, again. without the separatist regions ukraine is deprived a huge amount of its prior industrial capacity. they can't just rebuild an army that can challenge Russia again without massive international investment which would be seen from a million miles away.
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Dec 11, 2023 16:54
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WoodrowSkillson posted:without the separatist regions ukraine is deprived a huge amount of its prior industrial capacity. they can't just rebuild an army that can challenge Russia again without massive international investment which would be seen from a million miles away. That's what I mean though by kicking the can down the road. Leave the current Ukr state intact, and it is going to attempt to re-arm again and eventually make attempts on Crimea and the Donbas. And then Russia is right back to fighting.
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Dec 11, 2023 16:57
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I think Russia is definitely going to be on a war footing for the rest of Putin’s life, they’ll be ready if Ukraine foolishly believes they can retake Crimea in a decade.
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Dec 11, 2023 17:00
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VoicesCanBe posted:That's what I mean though by kicking the can down the road. Leave the current Ukr state intact, and it is going to attempt to re-arm again and eventually make attempts on Crimea and the Donbas. And then Russia is right back to fighting. possibly. I do not want to get too deep into assumptions about Ukrainians being like orcs that only want war. an attempt to re-arm would be seen so easily i do not think it would come to another full blown war as russia could just cruise missile the hell out of any new arms factories. Ukraine can only support its current military via international aid. Russia continuing the war and getting more people killed just to try and overthrow the government would be tragic and i hope it does not happen.
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Dec 11, 2023 17:02
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Nevil Maskelyne posted:I don't know enough about all the European and Central Asian countries to really say anything about how easy and permanent color revolutions would be. Would it be as strong and easy in a country less interested in Nazi hagiography and white supremacy than Ukraine? Are all the other countries in the area as broke and hosed as Ukraine, being the country with the worst economic prospects and living standards in eastern Europe? Do any of the other ones still have concepts of community and humanity or has that been eradicated by neoliberalism and replaced with dead-eyed Number worship and fetishization of fake Western ideals? Bad news I'm afraid,  The Turkestan-Caucasian-Muslim Legion was formed on 13 Jan 1942, and redesignated Turkestan Legion on 24 Mar 1942.  The Caucasian Muslim Legion was formed on 24 Mar 1942, and redesignated Azerbaijan Legion on 22 July 1942.  The Georgian Legion was authorized on 30 Dec 1941, but not actually formed until 24 Feb 1942. All it takes is a colour revolution, a diaspora community, Anne Applebaum and Tim Snyder, and these are national heroes, packaged and ready to go to inspire eternal war against the
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Dec 11, 2023 17:05
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I'm not sure I'd say that Ukraine is on the offensive in Kherson region (specifically in Krynky) because I'm not sure what the hell Ukraine is trying to do there lol.. I mean yeah they keep sending more and more platoons of soldiers into that sack they've created to hold their ground, but from what I've read there's probably never been more than a couple hundred of them on the Russian side of the river at one time and I don't see that they have any real ambition to go forward from that enclave - they are occasionally attacking to try to get control of some of the forest areas around Krynky, but that seems to be because the forests are better defensive positions than the town which has largely been reduced to rubble now. The whole thing has the character of a poorly thought out PR move, the couple of interviews they've had with Ukrainians who have been deployed across the river make it pretty clear that there is practically no logistical support provided to those people and no direction as to what they should do if they happen to survive going across the river - which is apparently becoming increasing perilous.
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Dec 11, 2023 17:08
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lobster shirt posted:moldova is definitely worse off than ukraine. well, it was before the war started anyway, probably better to be moldova today. they probably dont need to do any color revolutions there per se because the pro-euro lib side keeps winning elections (also they had a big protest that forced out a pro russian government in 2014 iirc). that's... not great i can't imagine russia would care too much if they start shelling the pro-russians in gagauzia considering it's distance from the 2021 russian borders but they're still on the black sea so who fuckin knows, not to mention what the 2025-or-so borders are going to look like what a pain in the rear end it must be to run a major state lol Frosted Flake posted:Bad news I'm afraid, god loving drat europe just has unlimited variations on different kinds of nazis huh do these guys have a Canadian Ukrainain Nazi equivalent too?
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Dec 11, 2023 17:11
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WoodrowSkillson posted:possibly. I do not want to get too deep into assumptions about Ukrainians being like orcs that only want war. an attempt to re-arm would be seen so easily i do not think it would come to another full blown war as russia could just cruise missile the hell out of any new arms factories. Ukraine can only support its current military via international aid. It's not so much that Ukrainians want endless war and death, but that nazism and fascism are death cults that can't coexist peacefully with other states outside of certain ideological parameters. If Russia doesn't finish this thing properly they're going to be dealing with it forever. Even if Ukraine can't build an army by factory they'll still have plenty of stochastic terrorism aimed at the annexed russian regions fueled by black market arms that have already been heavily supplied by the west and perpetrated by the ideological apparatus and bitter nazi remnants of the current ukrainian state.
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Dec 11, 2023 17:15
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VoicesCanBe posted:The silver lining is that most of those places don't have a fascist mythology that can be easily exported by a US-backed diaspora, the way Banderism was for Ukraine. And even that took sustained pushes dating back to the 80s - nearly 30 years to truly take power. Remember that the prior Orange Revolution wound up being largely inconsequential. listening to an interview with Kit Klarenberg the main instigating factor was the sniper shootings at the maidan protest, which apparently was itself also starting to wane like previous protests but was completely reenergised thanks to the georgian legion being given rifles and a floor at the hotel ukrainia (didn’t they steal that building at the beginning of the war too?)
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Dec 11, 2023 17:15
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Nevil Maskelyne posted:god loving drat europe just has unlimited variations on different kinds of nazis huh I actually have no idea. I'm not aware of Canada having any large Central Asian diasporas, and the Georgian community is pretty small. I would be suspicious of the Georgian,  and Armenian, angles. Those seem like countries the US is very interested in peeling away from Russia. The US has a large Armenian diaspora, though I have no idea what their politics are. I know Georgia has a diaspora somewhere because they were in the DP camps in western occupied Europe post 45 when the fate of Croatians and Ukrainians was being worked out. I don't now where they went though and what deals were worked out. As far as Georgia being a useful angle for the State, don't forget the many, many articles about Georgia or Moldova opening up a "second front" to help Ukraine. I mean, we even saw a colour revolution "show of force" in Georgia, when "inquiring about who funds NGOs" led to mass demonstrations in the streets (🤔).
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Dec 11, 2023 17:18
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Nevil Maskelyne posted:It's not so much that Ukrainians want endless war and death, but that nazism and fascism are death cults that can't coexist peacefully with other states outside of certain ideological parameters. If Russia doesn't finish this thing properly they're going to be dealing with it forever. Even if Ukraine can't build an army by factory they'll still have plenty of stochastic terrorism aimed at the annexed russian regions fueled by black market arms that have already been heavily supplied by the west and perpetrated by the ideological apparatus and bitter nazi remnants of the current ukrainian state. that is going to be a problem for sure, but that is what happens when you stupidly start a war. Russia will not kill its way out of this any more than Israel will kill its way out of having Hamas resist them. I do not think Russia will avoid persistent insurgency/terrorism/whatever via prolonging this war and getting even more people killed and creating more people with axes to grind and willingness to seek revenge.
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Dec 11, 2023 17:19
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WoodrowSkillson posted:possibly. I do not want to get too deep into assumptions about Ukrainians being like orcs that only want war. an attempt to re-arm would be seen so easily i do not think it would come to another full blown war as russia could just cruise missile the hell out of any new arms factories. Ukraine can only support its current military via international aid. It has nothing to do with Ukrainians being "pre-disposed" to violence, it's the fascist government and coalition that has a stranglehold on power since 2014. Even before 2022 any attempts at detente with Russia or resolving the war in Donbas were rendered impossible by the Maidan coalition. We know this because Zelensky himself won overwhelmingly in 2019 on a peace platform but was stopped in his tracks before he even started.
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Dec 11, 2023 17:23
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Chechnya seems fine 
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Dec 11, 2023 17:25
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The problem isn’t Ukraine trying to drive to Moscow in a few years but drone / missile attacks. Ukraine wouldn’t be able to win a war but they could make Moscow pay for letting them go on. Also, the West is low on inventory now but it doesn’t mean eventually there will pull more equipment to give to the Ukrainians if they are just allowed to be for an indefinite period. WoodrowSkillson posted:that is going to be a problem for sure, but that is what happens when you stupidly start a war. Russia will not kill its way out of this any more than Israel will kill its way out of having Hamas resist them. It is a very different situation, the killing is happening on the front line and the Russians freely allow Ukrainians to become equal citizens. The Russians are also squarely targeting the Ukrainian state not the Ukrainian people as a whole. There is a reason why Ukraine is clearly running out of volunteers. People aren’t interested in giving their lives to this thing. Also, the Chechens had their own split and pretty much those who opposed the government were forced out of the country. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 17:30 on Dec 11, 2023 |
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Dec 11, 2023 17:27
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WoodrowSkillson posted:that is going to be a problem for sure, but that is what happens when you stupidly start a war. Russia will not kill its way out of this any more than Israel will kill its way out of having Hamas resist them. I don't want to be mean about this or anything but I think you're missing out on or just ignoring a great deal of ethnic and materialist context to ever try to compare ukraine with palestine, the average Ukrainian outside of the super-liberal places like Kyiv is basically no different from the average Russian, the majority of the population of eastern Ukraine is perfectly happy to live under the Russian tricolour rather than the Ukrainian Minions flag if it means the explosions finally stop and they can go back to normal life. Ukrainian refugees and survivors wouldn't be treated as second-class citizens like Palestinians are in Israel because Russia is not an apartheid state, it's a basic conservative-capitalist-christian state. Everything I've heard coming out of Ukraine is fatigue and wanting it to be over, outside of the white supremacist types. Frosted Flake posted:As far as Georgia being a useful angle for the State, don't forget the many, many articles about Georgia or Moldova opening up a "second front" to help Ukraine. I mean, we even saw a colour revolution "show of force" in Georgia, when "inquiring about who funds NGOs" led to mass demonstrations in the streets (🤔). God, whatever happens to the Ukr NGOs and banderite state guys when this war is over I hope it's enough for the Georgian liberals to notice that US backing isn't going to make them live very long no matter how much coke you snort.
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Dec 11, 2023 17:31
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Ardennes posted:The problem isn’t Ukraine trying to drive to Moscow in a few years but drone / missile attacks. Ukraine wouldn’t be able to win a war but they could make Moscow pay for letting them go on. I agree, what i do not think will help is further death if the war gets to the point ukraine sues for peace. Russia refusing terms and continuing will change the population's view of the war and whether or not its worth continuing. Nevil Maskelyne posted:I don't want to be mean about this or anything but I think you're missing out on or just ignoring a great deal of ethnic and materialist context to ever try to compare ukraine with palestine, yeah that was probably a bit much, too much at the forefront of my mind i guess. its certainly not a direct comparison. WoodrowSkillson has issued a correction as of 17:36 on Dec 11, 2023 |
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Dec 11, 2023 17:33
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I think comparing Ukraine and Palestine comes from a well-meaning place but the comparsion doesn't hold up to scrutiny once you understand the respective contexts Literally it's that political compass that was going around on Chinese social media.
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Dec 11, 2023 17:35
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Frosted Flake posted:Bad news I'm afraid, What about Uzbek nazis? 
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Dec 11, 2023 17:42
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It doesn't help the comparison to consider the fact that Russia has killed less civilians in two years than Israel did in two months, and I'm pretty sure they're not even at the number that the US killed in Iraq in a single month. Everyone in the west wants to believe that all this weird nazi banderite poo poo is the true Ukrainian identity, but in reality it simply is not. The "Political" types have made it the official state line, but the average Ukrainian just wants the same basic poo poo as everyone else in that part of the world, which is to not get poo poo on as hard as they did in the 90s. If that means that Big Z gets killed and replaced with a Putin Puppet (putppet??) then most of them will be perfectly fine with it. None of that can happen if Russia allows the current state actors and power brokers in Ukraine to maintain continuity, it's just not realistic to think that Russia could believe in or accept any kind of truce or ceasefire terms after what happened with the Minsk accords. It'd be great if white supremacist nationalists would accept peace and let the breakaway regions go be Russian forever, but the Ukrainian state wasn't even that functional pre-2022, and they sure as poo poo would not have any material future as a landlocked rump state with nothing to offer economically to the rest of the world outside of sex trafficking, womb-rentals, and fake financialization service economy nonsense in a country crushed under an impossibly unpayable debt to the vultures of the IMF. Nevil Maskelyne has issued a correction as of 17:49 on Dec 11, 2023 |
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Dec 11, 2023 17:44
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WoodrowSkillson posted:I agree, what i do not think will help is further death if the war gets to the point ukraine sues for peace. Russia refusing terms and continuing will change the population's view of the war and whether or not its worth continuing. This much I agree with. If Ukraine winds up agreeing to terms similar to what was on the table in April 2022 and Russia refuses (which they will), it'll definitely make them look bad, to whatever extent that matters. Here's the thing though - Ukraine will never accept any territory losses, including Crimea.
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Dec 11, 2023 17:47
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VoicesCanBe posted:This much I agree with. If Ukraine winds up agreeing to terms similar to what was on the table in April 2022 and Russia refuses (which they will), it'll definitely make them look bad, to whatever extent that matters. I can't even imagine -- even in a scenario in which Ukraine assassinates Big Z and tries to throw him under the bus for the whole war -- that his successors would accept territory losses. It would be pretty bad if they did, considering the pressure it would place on Russia to agree to a fake ceasefire, but I don't think they could bring themselves to do that.
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Dec 11, 2023 17:53
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VoicesCanBe posted:This much I agree with. If Ukraine winds up agreeing to terms similar to what was on the table in April 2022 and Russia refuses (which they will), it'll definitely make them look bad, to whatever extent that matters. I mean the Russians could say not only that ship sailed but the current Ukrainians government showed themselves to be not a party worth negotiating with. I think most of the people who would be angry at Russia were already angry at them. If one side rejects terms, the other side doesn’t have to go back to them after they change their mind. But yeah I think even despite everything the Spring 2022 terms are still unacceptable to the nationalists and honestly would rather just shoot Zelensky and keep on fighting.
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Dec 11, 2023 17:54
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It seems like the circumstances prevailing right now is that either Ukraine will agree to Russia's terms or Russia will keep the war going until they can enforce those terms unilaterally on Ukraine.. I don't think any actual negotiation is really in the cards, full capitulation or nothing for Ukraine.
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Dec 11, 2023 18:32
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there will have to be a government change in Ukraine first
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Dec 11, 2023 18:39
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https://x.com/kmbc/status/1734270334491148425?s=20
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Dec 11, 2023 18:55
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my god he comes here like every week
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Dec 11, 2023 18:55
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Ukraines Zelenskyy to address the Burger King Kids Klub
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Dec 11, 2023 18:56
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Frosted Flake posted:The more concerning thing imo is that it proves that colour revolutions can be induced to fight to the death and can't be rolled back. im kinda curious if the Gulen attempted coup was a shade of a color revolution. the gulenists clearly enjoyed some level of us support. I wonder what policy changes would have happened if they succeeded.
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Dec 11, 2023 18:57
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my bony fealty posted:Little by little I've noticed the Ukranian flags people had flying around town coming down over the past few months. It seems my neighbors have all turned into orcs. most of em dropped out early in the year after the big defeats and interest waned. don’t see any irl anymore. there still sickos with flag emojis on twitter but only the most emulsified brain nafo guys
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Dec 11, 2023 19:00
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There's a house a few minutes from me with Ukranian and Israeli flags
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Dec 11, 2023 19:05
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euphronius posted:my god he comes here like every week should be spending less on plane travel
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Dec 11, 2023 19:05
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lobster shirt posted:should be spending less on plane travel He can barely function due to jet lag, his body doesn’t know what to do.
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Dec 11, 2023 19:06
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