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It probably gets closed in the next CBA I would imagine. Unless he's the only player to do this which is possible.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:29
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Ohtani is the GOAT for this
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Dec 12, 2023 00:30
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live with fruit posted:Fans. Non-Dodger fans lose. It infuriates me how people say something like "Well maybe other owners should just spend more" like fans in Pittsburgh or Colorado have any control over that. You’re essentially arguing the tail is wagging the dog. The A’s don’t not spend money or lose out on superstars because the Yankees do, or the Dodgers do, but because they don’t want to spend money and then use that as an excuse so their fans don’t get pissed. Ohtani having crazy deferrals doesn’t mean the White Sox are suddenly out of the running for Yamamoto - they never were going to spend that money in the first place, and now get a convenient scapegoat to tell their fans about the big bad Ohtani deal that ruined their chances at signing Blake Snell, honest, for realsies.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:30
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“All contracts must end within 21 years “ or similar
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Dec 12, 2023 00:30
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live with fruit posted:Fans. Non-Dodger fans lose. It infuriates me how people say something like "Well maybe other owners should just spend more" like fans in Pittsburgh or Colorado have any control over that. Won't someone please think of the fans!?!
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Dec 12, 2023 00:30
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euphronius posted:“All contracts must end within 21 years “ or similar Okay but that doesn't affect Ohtani's deal at all.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:31
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euphronius posted:“All contracts must end within 21 years “ or similar Why would the MLBPA go for any of this? As has been pointed out it very much matters that Ohtani is loving himself over financially on this*, so it would be weird if it ever happened again. The MLBPA exists to protect players from predatory deals from ownership and stuff, but this is just straight up Ohtani deciding "pay me half what I could get, I'd rather get rings" * I'm sure he's not financially loving himself over on this, he's still gonna make drat near $70m a year through endorsements and poo poo of course
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Dec 12, 2023 00:31
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Hey I’m just reading posts . I assumed he had a 350 year deal for 2 million a year
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Dec 12, 2023 00:31
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NieR Occomata posted:I think he’s implying people hating this specifically because it opens up Dodger cap flexibility to scoop other superstar players from other teams, the aforementioned stanning for billionaires (the small market owners who will whine about this, more precisely). Again, this was explicitly Ohtani’s idea - if it wasn’t this would suck poo poo, but because he’s the one who pushed this idea forward aggressively, again, who cares. The only reason Ohtani feels compelled to do this though is because of the luxury tax, the penalties of which would have crippled the Dodgers had they actually handed Ohtani $70M a year and been assessed accordingly. Without it the Dodgers can afford to actually pay him without major deferrals (and again: deferred money is strictly less valuable than money paid today, and the longer the deferral the more value is lost) while still staying competitive. So in a roundabout way this is just the luxury tax doing it's job: creating incentives to artificially lower player contracts so more money ultimately stays with the owners. I know it sounds stupid to say about arguably the greatest record breaking contract in American sports, but what's happening here is anti-player. Again though like we both said: Ohtani wanted it, so whatever. I'm not going to throw some big stink over it. It sucks if it sets a precedent though and it sucks that Ohtani was most likely on compelled to push for it (or at least, to push for it to such an extreme) because of perverse anti-player incentives created by the CBT.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:32
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Tatsuta Age posted:Why would the MLBPA go for any of this? As has been pointed out it very much matters that Ohtani is loving himself over financially on this, so it would be weird if it ever happened again. The MLBPA exists to protect players from predatory deals from ownership and stuff, but this is just straight up Ohtani deciding "pay me half what I could get, I'd rather get rings" In the bargaining process they could exchange it for a concession from the owners such as idk anything really. Free agency starts when you are 23 for example
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Dec 12, 2023 00:32
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NieR Occomata posted:You’re essentially arguing the tail is wagging the dog. The A’s don’t not spend money or lose out on superstars because the Yankees do, or the Dodgers do, but because they don’t want to spend money and then use that as an excuse so their fans don’t get pissed. Ohtani having crazy deferrals doesn’t mean the White Sox are suddenly out of the running for Yamamoto - they never were going to spend that money in the first place, and now get a convenient scapegoat to tell their fans about the big bad Ohtani deal that ruined their chances at signing Blake Snell, honest, for realsies. I'm arguing that people shouldn't throw lovely ownership in the face of fans who are rightfully upset about how clearly MLB is divided into the haves and have nots when they have no control over anything.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:35
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FlamingLiberal posted:He will, I think they would pay taxes for any games played in CA (all of the home games, and if they play LA, SD, OAK, or SF) But would that be factored in for his deferred years when he's not playing? Or only the 2 million he makes for the next 10 years?
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Dec 12, 2023 00:36
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Popete posted:But would that be factored in for his deferred years when he's not playing? Or only the 2 million he makes for the next 10 years?
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Dec 12, 2023 00:36
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Popete posted:But would that be factored in for his deferred years when he's not playing? Or only the 2 million he makes for the next 10 years? Yeah if he moves to Japan a day before he gets the deferred payments and isn't a US citizen then why would he pay taxes on that money?
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Dec 12, 2023 00:36
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Considering the real estate in Pasadena Ohtani might need 2 roommates now
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Dec 12, 2023 00:37
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Also this won’t be a loophole that needs to be closed because like 99% of players aren’t going to go for insane deferrals in their contract. Ohtani is a baseball-obsessed freak who cares solely and specifically about getting rings, everyone else isn’t gonna go for insane deferments unless one of three things happens: 1)the payments accrue interest (Bonilla), 2) they have pending legal/criminal charges and need to depress their value right now no matter what (Watson), or 3) they’re a baseball obsessed freak who only cares about getting rings (which there’s like maybe three people in this league who would go for something like this).Sydin posted:The only reason Ohtani feels compelled to do this though is because of the luxury tax, the penalties of which would have crippled the Dodgers had they actually handed Ohtani $70M a year and been assessed accordingly. Without it the Dodgers can afford to actually pay him without major deferrals (and again: deferred money is strictly less valuable than money paid today, and the longer the deferral the more value is lost) while still staying competitive. So in a roundabout way this is just the luxury tax doing it's job: creating incentives to artificially lower player contracts so more money ultimately stays with the owners. I know it sounds stupid to say about arguably the greatest record breaking contract in American sports, but what's happening here is anti-player. This is a totally fair point. I really wish that his payouts in 2035 on accrued interest like Bonilla’s did, but oh well. It’s what he wants.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:39
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live with fruit posted:I'm arguing that people shouldn't throw lovely ownership in the face of fans who are rightfully upset about how clearly MLB is divided into the haves and have nots when they have no control over anything. But one thing has literally nothing to do with the other, as you pointed out. They are two separate issues not at all related to each other.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:40
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NieR Occomata posted:Also this won’t be a loophole that needs to be closed because like 99% of players aren’t going to go for insane deferrals in their contract. This could absolutely end up being a cudgel to bully players, especially international and younger players, into sweetheart deals for the team in the interest of being a "team player"
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Dec 12, 2023 00:40
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https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/1734349354952233007?s=46&t=qe_Y8YJnNikGLo_JUDPyAQ lmao owned
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Dec 12, 2023 00:41
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Tatsuta Age posted:Yeah if he moves to Japan a day before he gets the deferred payments and isn't a US citizen then why would he pay taxes on that money? If that's how it works, I don't know. But it seems sketchy to have a huge deferred contract which allows you to almost entirely avoid paying state income tax on 68 million per year. Like I could see that catching on as everyone starts taking deferred deals and then as soon as they retire they "move" to Texas and never pay income tax.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:41
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I just want to see Ohtani, the Dodgers, and the ESPN and MLB darlings eat poo poo on a cold night in Toronto by the lake in November. I’m tired of the lazy “Toronto is a small town except for hockey” takes
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Dec 12, 2023 00:41
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NieR Occomata posted:But one thing has literally nothing to do with the other, as you pointed out. They are two separate issues not at all related to each other. I'm not the one making the connection.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:42
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Popete posted:If that's how it works, I don't know. But it seems sketchy to have a huge deferred contract which allows you to almost entirely avoid paying state income tax on 68 million per year. Every time I drive over a pot hole in Southern California, I'm going to curse Ohtani's name.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:42
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Bregor posted:https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/1734349354952233007?s=46&t=qe_Y8YJnNikGLo_JUDPyAQ MLB was going to nix that $400M deal the Padres were offering Arson Judge for the same reason 
will_colorado fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 00:42
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NieR Occomata posted:The A’s ... then use that as an excuse so their fans don’t get pissed. lol
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Dec 12, 2023 00:43
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Tatsuta Age posted:This could absolutely end up being a cudgel to bully players, especially international and younger players, into sweetheart deals for the team in the interest of being a "team player" also yeah i like ohtani and i'm glad he wants to play but the rules/MLBPA should also exist to keep players from making boneheaded sweetheart deals that make owners lives easier and ohtani's move here is absolutely that
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Dec 12, 2023 00:44
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hosed up that Noted Tax Evader Shohei Ohtani is anti-worker and anti-union
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Dec 12, 2023 00:45
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Tatsuta Age posted:I think it includes the deferred years so in this case it will be like he's being paid ~$450m (the actual value calculation of $700m NOW versus in 20 years when he gets it, like a annuity vs lump sum lottery winner) over 20 years or so. So the luxury tax hit is around $20-something million a year instead of $70 million. The Dodgers are going to be carrying that $20-something million a year tax hit for decades though, if I understand the rules correctly? (I probably don't) e: pretty sure non-citizens in the US on work visas still have income tax withheld from their paychecks. Can't say for sure if that also applies to pro athletes but it probably does
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Dec 12, 2023 00:47
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Popete posted:He should pay state taxes too. It's money he earned working in California. He is on the 2mil he's getting a year
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Dec 12, 2023 00:47
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Monathin posted:also yeah i like ohtani and i'm glad he wants to play but the rules/MLBPA should also exist to keep players from making boneheaded sweetheart deals that make owners lives easier and ohtani's move here is absolutely that Ohtani's on his way to being a billionaire so this is just class solidarity.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:47
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Is LeBron James an actual billionaire at this point? He's made $430 million in salary and probably more than that in endorsements/etc. but I have no idea what his burn rate is. Messi is probably around $1B just in salary by now. Anyway if Ohtani wants to be a billionaire it's certainly within his power to get there.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:49
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bawfuls posted:stop stanning for billionaires It's not stanning for billionaires. It's allowing billionaires to once again game the system. BigBallChunkyTime fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 00:49
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will_colorado posted:MLB was going to nix that $400M deal the Padres were offering Arson Judge for the same reason If this is true, it's some bullshit
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Dec 12, 2023 00:50
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will_colorado posted:MLB was going to nix that $400M deal the Padres were offering Arson Judge for the same reason I think the difference there is the term was crazy. Judge had just finished his age 30 season and was signing a 14 year deal. The issue wasn’t money deferred but overall length of “playing” years to get around the luxury tax. They have calculations for the tax including deferred money, hence the ~$40mil tax hit for the Dodgers.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:52
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zoux posted:If this is true, it's some bullshit https://nypost.com/2022/12/09/padre...ign=partnerfeed  Bregor posted:I think the difference there is the term was crazy. Judge had just finished his age 30 season and was signing a 14 year deal. The issue wasn’t money deferred but overall length of “playing” years to get around the luxury tax. They have calculations for the tax including deferred money, hence the ~$40mil tax hit for the Dodgers. will_colorado fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 00:52
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will_colorado posted:MLB was going to nix that $400M deal the Padres were offering Arson Judge for the same reason That article says they would block it for extending past a reasonable length to reduce the annual salay number, it doesn't mention deferrals at all.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:52
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Oh ok I didn't see the tax hit, whatever, that's fine.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:52
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This deal sucks for any upcoming free agents expected to do the same
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Dec 12, 2023 00:56
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will_colorado posted:Ohtani turns 30 in the middle of next season. Judge would have been only like 6 months older than Ohtani at that point Yeah but playing to 40 with deferred money and playing to 44 without deferred money is not really the same. Might seem arbitrary but I’m sure there’s a good reason why in the CBA.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:00
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will_colorado posted:https://nypost.com/2022/12/09/padre...ign=partnerfeed 14 is a lot more than 10!!!
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Dec 12, 2023 01:00
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